Yeah - and that's why I want to see actual design drawings and elevations. "8 stories" sounds tall... but if it's nicely designed it could be a great addition to the neighborhood. I love the 11-story Belvedere, precisely because it is different from the rest of low-lying Avondale.

 

The Oakley site seems like it might actually be a good candidate for a tall building, depending on how the design interacts with St Cecilia. There is already a ~60 ft buffer between St Cecilia and the property line, so the church will have "breathing room" regardless of what is built. It is situated to the north of the church and the school, so it wouldn't cast shadows on either of the St Cecilia properties.

 

All of that being said, after looking at the Fortus Group website, I couldn't find any examples of projects taller than 4 stories across their business lines (senior, affordable, market): http://www.thefortusgroup.com/residential-development.html

 

So - I think it's pretty safe to assume they're only talking about 8-stories now to make it seem like they're the good guys when they come back with a much shorter project.

 

 

^St. Cecilia is only upset about the loss of parking.  I'm sure their ideal use for the property is another bank that is closed on Sundays :-)

The most recent episode of the Startup Podcast focuses on the business struggles of 2680 Madison Rd. It looks at the seven businesses that occupied it, including the Blue Moon Saloon, Hugg's Inn, and Mulligans:

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/2680-madison-road-season-3-episode-10/

 

The property last sold in November of 2015 for $1.05m:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/09/former-hyde-park-restaurant-snatched-up-by.html

 

Aerial image: http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0410005010900/2015/aerial_imagery_full

 

Towards the end of the episode, they say the current owner plans on building condos on the site. It's almost exactly 1 acre, but in a strange shape.

 

The most recent episode of the Startup Podcast focuses on the business struggles of 2680 Madison Rd. It looks at the seven businesses that occupied it, including the Blue Moon Saloon, Hugg's Inn, and Mulligans:

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/2680-madison-road-season-3-episode-10/

 

The property last sold in November of 2015 for $1.05m:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/09/former-hyde-park-restaurant-snatched-up-by.html

 

Aerial image: http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0410005010900/2015/aerial_imagery_full

 

Towards the end of the episode, they say the current owner plans on building condos on the site. It's almost exactly 1 acre, but in a strange shape.

 

 

Every time I pass that location I think, how in the world has this property not been developed by now???

Luxury townhomes coming to historic downtown Loveland

 

 

A new residential development is planned for historic downtown Loveland.

 

Ironsight Investments and Pfeiffer Architecture + Development received unanimous approval on July 5 from the city of Loveland Building & Zoning Department to build eight historically influenced luxury townhomes. The new development, the Broadway Brownstones, will be located in the heart of historic Loveland.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/07/08/luxury-townhomes-coming-to-historic-downtown.html

^ It's unfortunate they are tearing down a historic building to build these. Loveland has a good collection of nice old homes, but the downtown portion is fairly small - the building they are tearing down is probably one of the biggest building there:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2663515,-84.2591057,3a,75y,68.09h,91.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sitFgCP2iW4BN1-s4WB8Bdw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I don't think it's any further gone than buildings that are rehabbed in places like OTR, but I imagine the demand for that type of condo doesn't really exist in a suburban location.

That's a bummer.  The Loveland Station development did a decent job of staying away from the historic building.  There's really very little history left in the downtown, and just from this low-resolution rendering those townhouses look like crap, though a small step up from the rest of the new buildings on the site.

Very confused as to why there is a need to demolish that building. You would think they would be able to rehab it and convert it to condos? Would that not be cheaper, than to pay for the demolition costs, and build a completely new building :/

My guess would be antiquated and inflexible suburban zoning codes that are incapable of handling such a building.

Al. Neyer has put out their proposal for a mixed use development at the former Blue Ash airport site:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/07/13/big-plan-revealed-former-blue-ash-airport-land/87045662/

I was at Good Samaritan Hospital this past weekend and noticed a print of the OTR Jim Tarbell mural in the emergency room above "bay 3", or however it was labeled. 

Facade Restoration?

^Isn't the Sleepy Bee planning on opening in that building?

I believe that is slated for next door at 8 E Fourth.

Oh yeah - I think you're right. I was getting those buildings mixed up.

Don't know where else to put this so I decided to ask in here.  Having recently moved into the Groton lofts at 7th and Race I have noticed that on two of the four corners there are empty buildings.  The north east corner is Groton while the south west corner is Shilito but the other two corners are nice old buildings that are completely empty.  The south east corner building has a Payless on the bottom floor with everything above empty while the other building in completely empty.  To my girlfriend and I they look totally ripe for redevelopment into apartments.  The demand is there right now for more downtown apartments so I'm hoping someone rehabs them eventually.  Brand new residential buildings are nice but I personally love to see the old buildings renovated.  My building the Groton and the Shilito are great examples of this.  So does anyone know who owns these buildings and how long they've owned them for? 

Don't know where else to put this so I decided to ask in here.  Having recently moved into the Groton lofts at 7th and Race I have noticed that on two of the four corners there are empty buildings.  The north east corner is Groton while the south west corner is Shilito but the other two corners are nice old buildings that are completely empty.  The south east corner building has a Payless on the bottom floor with everything above empty while the other building in completely empty.  To my girlfriend and I they look totally ripe for redevelopment into apartments.  The demand is there right now for more downtown apartments so I'm hoping someone rehabs them eventually.  Brand new residential buildings are nice but I personally love to see the old buildings renovated.  My building the Groton and the Shilito are great examples of this.  So does anyone know who owns these buildings and how long they've owned them for?

 

Northwest corner is owned by Keystone Management, purchased in 2015. Back in 2013, a developer announced plans for renovating the building into apartments, but I don't know what happened with that plan: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/01/columbus-developer-to-build-apartments.html

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0770001014700/2015/summary

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0770001015000/2015/summary

 

Southeast corner is owned by FIFTY-ONE COMPANY LTD, puchased in 1995.

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0770002000100/2015/summary

 

^ The Cbus developer won tax credits, but still couldn't find a way to make the development financially feasible.

 

Southeast corner is owned by FIFTY-ONE COMPANY LTD, puchased in 1995.

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0770002000100/2015/summary

 

This one is owned by John Cranley's family. Supposedly looking to sell...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/10/exclusive-office-building-next-to-macy-s.html

With the Eighth & Sycamore development under construction and Fourth and Race kicking off soon, I am curious what the next big development might be. I think it makes the most sense to continue developing the east side of the CBD and keep the momentum going there. Aside from historic renovations that could be done, there are several parking lots and odd areas that could be easily redeveloped with apartments, condos, or office space.

 

Big parking lots to be developed:

- Walnut between Court and Central Parkway

- Walnut between 9th and Court

- South side of 9th between Main and Walnut (split by Bowen Alley)

 

Smaller parking lots:

- NW corner of 9th & Main

- SE corner of 8th & Walnut

 

Fantasy list:

- build a new development facing Walnut replacing the library's parking lots and weird plaza

- The Joseph family's lot behind the Dennison

- Xavier lot (SW corner of 7th & Sycamore)

- build something replacing the P&G gardens along 5th

- build something at the SW corner of 5th & Main replacing the Federal Reserve's weird fenced-off courtyard area

 

I could see the surface parking lots just north of P&G getting developed soon.

I think something's gotta change in the low risk, low maintenance, high liquidity cash reward equation of lots before we see widespread development on the revenue generating surface parking lots downtown. To make matters worse several of the parking lot companies are political donors to the mayor as well. My suggestion would be to offer additional years of tax abatement for developments that replace properties that were surface lots as of Jan 1st 2016 (a date in the past so no one tries to demolish their building and convert the property into a parking lot just to be eligible for additional abatement.) Until then at the rate we're going Travis's "outside-the-box" suggestion of a development on the library property could be just as likely to happen as development on a parking lot.

 

A related note- it's funny how parking distorts the market. For example in Over-the-Rhine the two condos built in top of the garage on 14th street at first glance would seem like a "quirky" project or getting creative to make more use of a marginal space. But the ability to provide the off street parking without lobbying for additional new curb cuts (which should be avoided because they do hurt walkability) probably let them charge more for the final product which actually made the site highly desirable.  we see the same thing over on the Wade St. townhomes where garages in even much worse shape are being preserved to be built upon.

 

To bring that back to downtown developments I think we'll see additional "strange" or "creative" deals made vs. the "meat and potatoes" approach of putting up buildings on parking lots.  (the condos on top of the 7th and Broadway garage being an example of the former.) I hope said deals don't involve the further demolition of historic buildings though (like the Donatos building, even though I understand that one would be challenging to redevelop to a modern productive use.)

Would be great if they could build something on top of the existing parking garage north of P&G or build an an entire new development on top of a new garage on that space.

Not going to happen but the Macy's and Tiffany's store at Fountain Square is in a prime location but is wasted with it only being 2-3 floors.  If they could tear that down and rebuild they could easily put some apartments on top that would sell very well in that location.

I believe the Macy's building on Fountain Square was originally going to be much taller, but was downsized. However, they built it with the ability to add on to the top as an option down the road.

Fountain Place (Macys, Tiffany and Co.) Doesn't need to be torn down. The building was actually built to hold 40+ plus stories above the three story platform. Towne Properties has the keys to that development but they seem to be sitting on there hands with it unfortunately...

 

Building on the P&G gardens? Heck no. I am all about urban development, but you need areas in a city that are a respite from the buildings, streets, and concrete. I enjoy the hanging gardens at P&G its unique and you don't come across it in other cities...

 

Donatos building has to go, hopefully Griewe sticks with his proposal for the midrise condo project there and on the corner across the street.

I believe the Macy's building on Fountain Square was originally going to be much taller, but was downsized. However, they built it with the ability to add on to the top as an option down the road.

 

Yes, it was built with the possibility of building up. There have been plans floated in the past:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/26/developers-look-to-keep-macys-store.html

 

Fifth Third either has or had air rights (definitely did in 2012). I think I remember murmurings about those rights expiring at some point. Jake or Travis probably know.

Well then they should definitely add apartments on top.  I would have to think that would be cheaper then a brand new development and they would add residents in the heart of downtown. 

 

Building on the P&G gardens? Heck no. I am all about urban development, but you need areas in a city that are a respite from the buildings, streets, and concrete. I enjoy the hanging gardens at P&G its unique and you don't come across it in other cities...

 

 

The trouble is that it's not a public park, and P&G is zealous in closing it down after hours.  Plus it's a thoroughly un-activated outdoor space.  It's surrounded by monolithic office buildings and it's across the street from a monolithic theater.  Compare that to Fountain Square which has many different businesses fronting it, several of which open directly onto it.  The way 5th Street gets stupidly wide by P&G only makes it worse, and actually the pergolas/hanging garden structure creates a barrier against the street (understandable since it's basically a highway there) which only serves to further isolate the space inside and make it feel uncomfortable if not unsafe.  It's also just way too big to fill up with people, which adds to the perception of safety problems, further keeping people out of it. 

Building on the P&G gardens? Heck no. I am all about urban development, but you need areas in a city that are a respite from the buildings, streets, and concrete. I enjoy the hanging gardens at P&G its unique and you don't come across it in other cities...

 

I was just down there the other day and was thinking about how effective it is. It's definitely a beautiful park-like environment, but it feels exclusive and corporate, not public.

 

Unlike actual city parks, I never see many people just hanging out in it besides what I assume are P&G employees. It's nice to have a green space in that part of downtown, but I wish it was an actual public space and not a P&G-managed pseudo-park.  Might make the beautiful Taft theater feel like it's in less of a dead zone.

 

Building on the P&G gardens? Heck no. I am all about urban development, but you need areas in a city that are a respite from the buildings, streets, and concrete. I enjoy the hanging gardens at P&G its unique and you don't come across it in other cities...

 

 

The trouble is that it's not a public park, and P&G is zealous in closing it down after hours.  Plus it's a thoroughly un-activated outdoor space.  It's surrounded by monolithic office buildings and it's across the street from a monolithic theater.  Compare that to Fountain Square which has many different businesses fronting it, several of which open directly onto it.  The way 5th Street gets stupidly wide by P&G only makes it worse, and actually the pergolas/hanging garden structure creates a barrier against the street (understandable since it's basically a highway there) which only serves to further isolate the space inside and make it feel uncomfortable if not unsafe.  It's also just way too big to fill up with people, which adds to the perception of safety problems, further keeping people out of it. 

 

Exactly. The P&G gardens are not a public park. It is a private area for P&G employees and only opens to the public occasionally for events like Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest (which won't happen anymore now that Oktoberfest is being moved to 2nd and 3rd streets). It's almost like P&G's attempt to build their own little suburban office park campus in the middle of Downtown. P&G actually owns many of the parking lots in that corner of downtown as well. Hopefully they will realize some day that it would be better to develop these lots and make that corner of downtown into a desirable 24/7 neighborhood, which would help them attract employees that are choosing between P&G and other Fortune 100 companies located in more active cities.

^ Of all the potential development sites that are available in downtown, why would you prioritize the P&G gardens site? For one thing, they are very attractive, even if they aren't used all that much.  Also, building something on those gardens would mean the P&G complex would have to completely reorient itself, seeing how the main entrances to the complex are next to those gardens.  Simply put, it's not going to happen.  I like how grand the entrance to P&G looks with all the international flags, fountains, gardens, etc.  I know they're not great from a pedestrian perspective, but that part of 5th has way more wrong with it than just the gardens being there.  It's about 7 lanes wide, the backside of Western and Southern's complex don't orient to 5th at all, the Chiquita and First Financial buildings have little to no public interface at ground level, and the Masonic Center also acts like a fairly large dead zone.  Really, given the presence of the Federal Courthouse on Main, there is very little pedestrian activation on 5th from Main to 71.  The P&G gardens are actually among the bright spots in this stretch.

 

When I think of development sites that should be prioritized in downtown, the list that comes to my mind includes:

Central and Walnut

5th and Plum

7th and Vine

St. Xavier Church/Joseph Family lots on Sycamore

 

The most offensive building in all of downtown though, imo, is the hideous parking garage on 7th and Elm.  Not only is it completely dead at ground level, it is absolutely atrocious looking, and sits right next to some of Cincinnati's best architectural gems- the Wise Temple, St. Peter in Chains Cathedral, and the Presbyterian Church anchoring the end of Piatt Park.  Even a surface lot would be an upgrade over that garage.

Yes, it's a 36' tall, 12" diameter cell tower that you'll start to see all over town as the wireless carriers phase out the tall cell towers we've seen forever. In Cincinnati, they generally can't be closer than 300'. FCC rules require all jurisdictions of local government to allow for these in the right-of-way although we can make rules as to where they go and standards of quality and design. City Planning Commission passed rules and design guidelines a couple of weeks ago. Now at City Council.

 

Apparently this is how 5G works. 5G towers don't have very much range and don't like obstacles. Almost certainly rural areas, ribbon development and exurbs will be underserved with 5G since so many towers are required. So it's yet another way these areas are going to lose young people.

 

The way things work now is that there are historical preservation requirements that restrict the locations of cell towers since the old style ones were so tall. Something about Cincinnati's historical preservation allows the smaller 5G towers already.

Updating my list of active developments. A lot has changed since I updated this list last summer.

 

 

Recently Completed or Finishing Soon

Radius at The Banks {6/3/16} - 292 apts.

AT580 {8/2/16} - 179 apts.

Alumni Lofts (old SCPA) {3/1/16} - 142 apts.

 

Under Construction

Eighth & Sycamore {6/22/15} - 130 units

Merchants Bldg (34 W. Sixth St.) {6/30/15} - 62 apts.

15th & Race (3CDC) {5/29/15} - 61 units (mix of townhomes/condos/apts.)

Broadway Square Phase 2 {12/17/15} - 37 apts.

Market Square I {1/28/15} - 35 units

 

Future

Market Square II {6/28/16} - 55 units

309 Vine {12/9/15} - 294 apts.

Fourth & Race {8/5/16} - 225 apts.

Traction Company/Tri-State Building {5/12/16} - previously estimated at 104 apts.

LibertyElm (former Findlay Market Farm site) {5/20/16} - 213 apts.

630 Main (old Hartford Insurance Company building) {3/23/15} - 64 apts.

Garfield Suites apartment conversion {9/21/15} - appx. 190 apts.

Eighth & Main (SW corner) {8/9/16} (replacing Donato's) - 30 condos

Skyhouse Cincinnati {5/4/16} - 352 apts.

 

Unknown/Stalled

Fountain Place (above Macy's) {8/13/13} - 225 apts.

Grammer's Place {5/13/15} - 100 apts. and 4 townhomes

 

Cancelled

Peak Property Group development on 7th {10/14/14} - 75 apartments were planned; cancelled because financing developer "couldn’t make the numbers work" even after winning historic preservation tax credits

Ingalls Buildings {4/29/15} - last plan was for 40-50 condos but it's back on the market

 

Rumored/Fantasy

Saks replacement {11/14/13} - ??

Western & Southern residential tower near Lytle Park - ??

Carew Tower conversion to apts. or condos - ??

Thanks Travis.

 

I think you can almost put 309 Vine and Fourth and Race as "under construction".

 

If you add those to under construction, you have recently completed and under construction as:

 

1,457 units. 

 

That is a good number to add to the urban core since this time last summer.  Onward and upward!

 

 

The latest Historic Conservation Board packet has details on a neat project at 22 West Court St that will turn that narrow building (16' wide) into a single family home. I'm glad to see more residential rehabs on Court St. That will help bring more activity to the area.

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/august-8-2016-staff-reports-and-attachments/

Updating my list of active developments. A lot has changed since I updated this list last summer.

 

 

Recently Completed or Finishing Soon

Radius at The Banks {6/3/16} - 292 apts.

AT580 {8/2/16} - 179 apts.

Alumni Lofts (old SCPA) {3/1/16} - 142 apts.

 

Under Construction

Eighth & Sycamore {6/22/15} - 130 units

Merchants Bldg (34 W. Sixth St.) {6/30/15} - 62 apts.

15th & Race (3CDC) {5/29/15} - 61 units (mix of townhomes/condos/apts.)

Broadway Square Phase 2 {12/17/15} - 37 apts.

Market Square I {1/28/15} - 35 units

 

Future

Market Square II {6/28/16} - 55 units

309 Vine {12/9/15} - 294 apts.

Fourth & Race {8/5/16} - 225 apts.

Traction Company/Tri-State Building {5/12/16} - previously estimated at 104 apts.

LibertyElm (former Findlay Market Farm site) {5/20/16} - 213 apts.

630 Main (old Hartford Insurance Company building) {3/23/15} - 64 apts.

Garfield Suites apartment conversion {9/21/15} - appx. 190 apts.

Eighth & Main (SW corner) {8/9/16} (replacing Donato's) - 30 condos

Skyhouse Cincinnati {5/4/16} - 352 apts.

 

Unknown/Stalled

Fountain Place (above Macy's) {8/13/13} - 225 apts.

Grammer's Place {5/13/15} - 100 apts. and 4 townhomes

 

Cancelled

Peak Property Group development on 7th {10/14/14} - 75 apartments were planned; cancelled because financing developer "couldn’t make the numbers work" even after winning historic preservation tax credits

Ingalls Buildings {4/29/15} - last plan was for 40-50 condos but it's back on the market

 

Rumored/Fantasy

Saks replacement {11/14/13} - ??

Western & Southern residential tower near Lytle Park - ??

Carew Tower conversion to apts. or condos - ??

 

Travis, do you have a list of residential units that came online since 2013? The reason I am asking this question is that at the time the City was saying in 2012/2013 that downtown could support an additional 5,000 residential units. I doubt we will hit that number any time soon but I am interested to see if we are anywhere near even half.

I don't think we are anywhere close to 5,000 since 2013. Here are the ones that I listed as "recently completed" on last year's list:

 

Seven at Broadway - 110 apts.

Broadway Square Phase 1 {5/12/15} - 39 apts.

Schwartz Building - 20 apts.

 

^ Even if you add that, Mercer Commons Phases 1 & 2, and the ones listed as "recently completed" above, that's nowhere near that number.

Does anyone know what is being developed at Court and Walnut? There has been discussion that G.C. has been selected for a residential new build construction. From what a source told me is that its going to be a 15 story building. I haven't found any information and I don't know of any firms in town doing the design work.

 

Seen recently in this parking lot:

 

That is a beautiful piece of equipment to see in a surface parking lot!!!

^ That could be a rig for drilling for a geotechnical report. If so, that is indeed a good sign.

 

^^ Did you happen to catch a name or logo on those trucks there with it?

^  soil samples mean progress!  they'll probably break ground in the spring.

 

sixteen story building.  eight parking, eight residential.  first two floors will also have retail to hide the parking.  i have not seen a rendering, but shaping up to be another seven @ broadway or 8th & sycamore.

 

 

^ Judging by the number of people who have told me pretty much the same thing, I'd have to believe that your description is pretty accurate.

Why would they resurface and repaint the lot right before starting construction?

Why would they resurface and repaint the lot right before starting construction?

 

The parking company just had it sealcoated and stripped nothing overly expensive just maintenance that has to happen. They still have a lot of folks that park on the lot daily might as well keep making money until the lot becomes a construction site.

It seems like ~15 story buildings are about our new normal for downtown development.  While I love that we are seeing new infill downtown, I wish we could start developing buildings that aren't a 50/50 split between parking and residential.  I'd also love to see some more height, but 16 stories for this part of downtown would be pretty significant.  If the area between 7th and Central fills out with more of these type of towers, it could take on kind of a downtown DC vibe.

Where is this 15 stories coming from? Is there a plan for this site?

^  soil samples mean progress!  they'll probably break ground in the spring.

 

sixteen story building.  eight parking, eight residential.  first two floors will also have retail to hide the parking.  i have not seen a rendering, but shaping up to be another seven @ broadway or 8th & sycamore.

 

If this happens & contains a grocery store, I hope the grocery store faces Court Street. The pedestrian traffic generated by a grocery facing Court could do wonders to rejuvenate Court Street retail, but the pedestrian traffic generated by one facing Central Parkway really wouldn't have much of an affect on anything.

 

https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/a-solution-to-downtowns-game-of-groceries/

Does it occupy the entire footprint of Court/Central/Bowen/Walnut? Also, if the storefront is on Court, how will the Streetcar power station affect the street life if at all?

I agree about a corner entrance at Court & Walnut.