Too many Hotels not enough residential...

 

(I do think a Hotel Bubble is in the works).

Too many Hotels not enough residential...

 

(I do think a Hotel Bubble is in the works).

 

I would like to say your correct, however because the Millennium refuses to do a major upgrades to there large property. Developers will consider that block of rooms non-competitive in the market because of the poor quality of room and service they provide. Yes there have been a number of hotels opening up, but the Millennium is a property of 870+ hotel rooms. Most of these new properties are only 100 to 150 rooms additional. The bubble will happen when something truly happens with the Millennium.

 

On a side note this is great that another older office buildings are being bought up taking it off the class b available office space numbers. This in turn lowers the vacancy numbers in the city which makes it more attractive for other developers.

I don't think we're in a hotel bubble because most of these newer hotels are small projects. It's not like Hilton or Marriott is building a new 500 room dual-brand hotel tower. We're seeing smaller hotels here and there dotted throughout downtown. I would be curious to know the total number of hotel rooms in the CBD though.

I don't think we're in a hotel bubble because most of these newer hotels are small projects. It's not like Hilton or Marriott is building a new 500 room dual-brand hotel tower. We're seeing smaller hotels here and there dotted throughout downtown. I would be curious to know the total number of hotel rooms in the CBD though.

 

Existing Hotels in CBD:

21C: 160 Rooms

Cincinnatian: 146 Rooms

Hampton Inn: 144 Rooms

Homewood Suites: 105 Rooms

Holiday Inn: 117 Rooms

Hilton Netherland: 561 Rooms

Hyatt Regency: 491 Rooms

Millennium: 872 Rooms

Renaissance: 323 Rooms

Residence Inn: 134 Rooms

Westin: 456 Rooms

 

3,509 Rooms

 

Future Hotels:

AC at the Banks: 170 Rooms

Autograph hotel: 106 Rooms

Towneplace Suites: 84 Rooms

Seventh and Race Hotel: ?

Washington Park Boutique Hotel: ?

Fourth and Walnut Hotel: ?

 

360 + Rooms

I'm also hoping this is in response to a growth in tourism...  With Southwest finally making flight affordable to many more locations there may be a growth market here too.  Maybe I jumped the gun in calling it a bubble...

Ohio recently voted on (and Kasich signed) a bill to ban plywood to cover openings on vacant buildings...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/06/ohio-becomes-first-state-to-ban-plywood-on-vacant.html

 

Apparently there is no penalty for doing it, so I don't know if it will change anything. But how does the affect groups like Keep Cincinnati Beautiful? A large portion of their work is covering abandoned buildings with painted plywood. The new regulation states you have to use "clear polycarbonate windows and doors similar to what’s used by federal government-sponsored mortgage association Fannie Mae".

 

Any thoughts on this? Not sure if there is a better thread for this discussion, but this seems good enough.

I heard that the manufacturer of the polycarbonate stuff is from near Cleveland. Sounds like a favor to them that could have tons of unintended consequences if you ask me.

Perhaps why they didn't assign a penalty for using plywood?

 

I figured it was something like that. But would this preclude KCB from obtaining grants to cover buildings with plywood?

An experienced politician/policy guy once told me that if a law is that specific at the state level someone probably knows someone.

I don't want to offend anyone because I appreciate the effort and think the cause is very noble - but I've always thought that the Keep Cincinnati beautiful painted plywood over windows looked worse than just plain plywood or white painted plywood. It's sort of like putting a really bad shade of lipstick on a pig. If you're going to put lipstick on a pig, at least use a natural or neutral color.

 

The clearboard looks about 1000 times nicer than any plywood, but is more expensive. I don't know that it needs to be a state law, though. It seems like something that should be left to local authorities or property owners.

^Agree that it should be up to local authorities. This is just unnecessary regulation hurting working Americans.

 

I disagree that plain plywood looks better. Plain plywood just screams "I'm abandoned!"

 

At least when it's painted it appears to look better for a longer period of time. I think freshly painted plywood KCB does looks way better than plain plywood.

I don't want to offend anyone because I appreciate the effort and think the cause is very noble - but I've always thought that the Keep Cincinnati beautiful painted plywood over windows looked worse than just plain plywood or white painted plywood. It's sort of like putting a really bad shade of lipstick on a pig. If you're going to put lipstick on a pig, at least use a natural or neutral color.

 

The clearboard looks about 1000 times nicer than any plywood, but is more expensive. I don't know that it needs to be a state law, though. It seems like something that should be left to local authorities or property owners.

 

I agree that the style of artwork Keep Cincinnati Beautiful has been using looks really bad. The fake doors, windows, and flower boxes they paint don't look good and they scream "THIS BUILDING IS ABANDONED!"

 

If you want to see a much better example of painted plywood, look at the building across the street from Please (NE corner of 14th & Clay in OTR), where an artist did a nice little mural on the plywood. Also, Urban Sites is rehabbing several storefronts on Main and they simply painted the plywood black. It looks much better than what Keep Cincinnati Beautiful does.

Sunday was the last day of business for Park+Vine. It is definitely a bit of a low point for Main Street right now with the closures of P+V, Neon's, Japp's Annex, Mixx, Joe's Diner, and several other vacant retail spaces. However a lot of new businesses are in the works for Main and surrounding streets and I think it'll all balance out pretty soon.

 

Tomorrow is also the first day of business for the new Woods Hardware (formerly Acme Lock) store downtown. Not only is this a much bigger store than the previous store, they're also going to carry more convenience store type of items.

I don't want to offend anyone because I appreciate the effort and think the cause is very noble - but I've always thought that the Keep Cincinnati beautiful painted plywood over windows looked worse than just plain plywood or white painted plywood. It's sort of like putting a really bad shade of lipstick on a pig. If you're going to put lipstick on a pig, at least use a natural or neutral color.

 

The clearboard looks about 1000 times nicer than any plywood, but is more expensive. I don't know that it needs to be a state law, though. It seems like something that should be left to local authorities or property owners.

 

I agree that the style of artwork Keep Cincinnati Beautiful has been using looks really bad. The fake doors, windows, and flower boxes they paint don't look good and they scream "THIS BUILDING IS ABANDONED!"

 

If you want to see a much better example of painted plywood, look at the building across the street from Please (NE corner of 14th & Clay in OTR), where an artist did a nice little mural on the plywood. Also, Urban Sites is rehabbing several storefronts on Main and they simply painted the plywood black. It looks much better than what Keep Cincinnati Beautiful does.

 

I'm on Team Ryan Lammi. I think we who live with the painted windows and flower boxes see the KCB work as a sign of neglect and abandonment, but when I bring people in from out of town, they love it. Contemporary Artist Albano Afonso was so inspired by the doors that he created the macro-graphic of doors that cover the facade of the CAC building for some time. I think, for many who live in the core, the KCB doors have become part of the forgettable landscape. For outsiders, they are a signal of positivity despite negative circumstances (abandonment).

 

Lindsay Nehls' painting across from Please! is top notch, however. Truly exceptional.

150 homes priced around $250k planned for the old Provident/Mercy Hospital site:

 

This area has been in a very slow decline for the past twenty years so I think this is good news.  Unfortunately 150 homes doesn't come close to replacing the earnings tax revenue Cincinnati lost when the hospital moved to Monfort Heights. 

yay cul de sacs!

yay cul de sacs!

 

Ehh, not much else you could do there, and it looks like it saves some green space. If someone was going to do a large mixed use new urbanism style development in the area, I'd much rather have it go in the traditional Mt. Airy neighborhood business district. Gotta choose your battles.

Look at how so many of the houses will have their backs to Banning Rd.  Zoning should require homes to face primary streets.  The small development that extended Chase has homes backing to Colerain and looks terrible.

 

Also there are few trees on the property because of the helipad and those that are there will likely be cut down.

You could still do the exact same style of suburban development without cul-de-sacs, just by connecting the streets. You don't have to go full new urbanism.

What's weird is that they appear to be keeping the access points the exact same as those that exist for the hospital property.  I wonder if they're doing that for utility purposes (who knows what lurks beneath this property) and so laid the whole thing out around that. 

Looks like they didn't get full ownership of all of the land - is part of it still being used? What's with the elongated property in the SW corner of the development that extends into a former house lot? And the south access parkway? That could be trimmed to a standard street with even more houses.

Looks like they didn't get full ownership of all of the land - is part of it still being used? What's with the elongated property in the SW corner of the development that extends into a former house lot? And the south access parkway? That could be trimmed to a standard street with even more houses.

 

It's directly opposite the access to another subdivision.  Looks like a leftover of some kind from a previous residential street plan. 

yay cul de sacs!

 

*culs de sac

^ha, like witchfinders general

^ha, like witchfinders general

 

But unlike bananas foster.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/26/bagel-deli-chain-to-open-downtown-store.html

 

 

Einstein Bros Bagels going into the old Richter and Phillips location along the streetcar route. Will be a nice addition to the area.

Meet Ag47, the largest development in Silverton’s history

 

 

The largest development in Silverton’s history continues to move forward. And now it has a name.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/02/16/meet-ag47-the-largest-development-in-silverton-s.html

It's shit

Well, yeah, there's a lot of surface lots but overall it has to be good for Silverton. Look at all of those trees in the background in the rendering. It sort of looks like Gatlinburg. Ha!

name should have been AG47-2000

That name is horrible, sorry.  I normally don't comment but that is a really bad name.

 

No one is going to think, oh "Ag is Silver and 47 is the periodic number"

 

I immediatley thought it was a type of Crop Insurance company

 

Sounds like it belongs on the campus of Iowa State University

 

BTW, did anyone see the comprehensive plan for Mount Auburn and Auburn Avenue district?  It looks really neat.  For all of us nerds it's a long and interesting read, and also they note in the packet their desire to turn Hollister between Vine and Auburn two-way and make room for the Streetcar.  Starts on Page 31, sawing it from buildingcincy's Twitter account

 

https://twitter.com/buildingcincy

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/feb-17-2017-packet/

^My favorite part is the "5 Points Intersection" with Dorchester I believe and Auburn Avenue.  They want to build a prominade lookout going downtown off of a rehabbed and extended Flat Iron Building at the corner there.  They also got some cool renderings for the space across the street from Christ Hospital

Saw Michael Williams (Omar from The Wire) at Findlay Market today

Hey folks - I have a rather specific rehab query; can't quite find where it would fit; and don't know it warrants a new thread. So here goes...

 

It's about kitchen design in small 1BR apartments, between 450-600 sq. ft. I think the target market is single people or couples < 35 years old.

 

Do folks still expect to have an oven as part of these kitchens? We are rehabbing a 6 unit building in OTR now, and the kitchens are going to be necessarily small, so we want them to be attractive and efficient, and certainly not turn folks off. But the standard range takes up a mammoth amount of space in a small kitchen that could usefully be storage if you go with only a cooktop + microwave, or perhaps a countertop microwave/convection micro-oven. So I'm thinking to have a base cabinet with pull out drawer space and a cooktop above, instead of the standard oven/cooktop range.

 

Again sorry about this possibly strange and specific diversion, but you never know what folks might have strong opinions about! ;-)

 

 

We've finally got a certificate of occupancy for the Schmitthenner building at 1527 Elm. Got a lot of good advice from some folks on this forum over time (and actually incorporated it into the design, best we could). So, wanted to invite you all to drop by for an open house this Sunday, Feb 26, Noon-2PM.

 

Basics:

- 3 500 sq. ft. 1 BR apartments

- 2 700 sq. ft. 1 BR apartments

- 1 1300 sq. ft. 1 BR Loft

- 1 700 sq. ft. storefront

- Federal and State historic tax credits

- City property tax credit

- LEED (Silver or possibly Gold; still being certified)

 

Here's a few pics. Look forward to seeing anyone who drops by.

 

Jim the exterior paint job looks great. I hardly recognized it when I walked past it last week. 

Jim the exterior paint job looks great. I hardly recognized it when I walked past it last week. 

Thanks jmecklenborg[/member] - paint is a wonderful thing sometimes.

 

Wanted to also say to anyone redoing these old storefronts - check out Art Woodworking in Cincinnati. They built custom 9' tall 2-1/4" thick solid mahogany entry doors for us, for less than what it would have cost to buy prefab aluminum clad 7' tall doors (and so allowing restoration of the original transom configuration, instead of having to add a 'filler' transom above the new door). Amazed me - we are lucky to have places like that still in existence.

So is the storefront going to be rented commercially or is it going to be residential? 

^ commercial - historical configuration. But it's not under the current occupancy certificate. Will need permits, HVAC, interior finishes.

The black paint on the storefront Rocks! Good choice. Great tip on Art's woodworking too. they build lots of display related things for my company and are great people who care about what they do. Their shop in Northside looks straight out of the 30's.

 

We've finally got a certificate of occupancy for the Schmitthenner building at 1527 Elm. Got a lot of good advice from some folks on this forum over time (and actually incorporated it into the design, best we could). So, wanted to invite you all to drop by for an open house this Sunday, Feb 26, Noon-2PM.

 

Basics:

- 3 500 sq. ft. 1 BR apartments

- 2 700 sq. ft. 1 BR apartments

- 1 1300 sq. ft. 1 BR Loft

- 1 700 sq. ft. storefront

- Federal and State historic tax credits

- City property tax credit

- LEED (Silver or possibly Gold; still being certified)

 

Here's a few pics. Look forward to seeing anyone who drops by.

Hey all just a quick note about our open house in case anyone was interested... its been postponed till next Saturday, March 4 (March 4!) from 2:00-4:00PM. Sorry for the confusion; it was unexpectedly busy this week after we put these on the market.

 

Incidentally, to anyone who is interested in developing a property in OTR, after my (first time) experience entering the rental market as a landlord, there is surprising pressure for good quality and inexpensive 1-BR units in OTR (<=$800/month). I think this is likely to be true whether south of Liberty or near Findlay market. I mean, you put the listing out there and you better allocate the better part of your next few days interacting with people.

 

So you may be thinking that this is obvious. But where this takes me - and I hadn't really realized it - is that we should be prioritizing the development of many, many more small units than are being done now, so that the above price point works. For example if you need to rent for $2/sq. ft. to make the project a good one, then I think that 400 sq. ft. units would rent no problem at all. Good people just want to live here, and they have budget constraints, but they care a lot less about how much space they have. I was originally a little nervous about showing 500 sq. ft. apartments and they were by far the most popular and I never had one person say it was small.

 

And the quality of tenants looking for that type of unit seems high. I met many people in their 20s who were just starting out and making maybe $3,000 a month, had some student loans, and they wanted flexibility in their budget to save and do other things. It was really refreshing. A few people even came with their parents! I mean, a gaggle of mom and pop and siblings who had lived forever in the suburbs and now being pulled out into the world by their 22 year old who just finished college.

 

Anyway, if I were to be looking for properties to redevelop right now in OTR, I'd be looking for buildings that lent themselves to mostly 350-450 sq. ft. units, put in nice finishes, and rent them for $1.75-$2/ft. OTR will be a better place with a lot more of those units and a lot more of those people that would flock to fill them.

^That's really good insight and it's something I see repeated here in NYC from many of the developers I work with.

 

One of our biggest Clients is Common. They've found that people aren't so much interested in size as they are something that fits their budget in a location that they like and is of a decent quality. It doesn't have to be luxurious but they expect it to be well done. There is a great willingness to trade space for quality to remain within their target price range.

 

I know anecdotally that this is how I view a place to live. When I owned in OTR my condo was 468 square feet and it was more than I needed. It could have easily been +/- 400 square feet and functioned identically and been even better in my mind.

 

Around half of people moving to cities are single and will be for awhile since settling down and marrying/moving in with someone isn't necessarily a sign of moving into adulthood anymore. So there's a huge need for studios and one bedrooms that are small and efficient but in a reasonable price range for a single person just starting out or still early in their career.

 

I'm glad to see you providing that for OTR. Because it seems lately all the big developers are doing is townhomes and massive units. Which is not only bad for density but does nothing to allow people to enter the market at a reasonable price.

 

Edit: Also, the exterior paint job looks amazing. It's hardly the same building! I remember when you invited my friend and I into your home when we were randomly gawking as we passed by and you mentioned what you had planned for the building next door. It's cool to see it completed and looking great. Glad there's a lot of interest!

... it seems lately all the big developers are doing is townhomes and massive units. Which is not only bad for density but does nothing to allow people to enter the market at a reasonable price.

Yes!

So you may be thinking that this is obvious. But where this takes me - and I hadn't really realized it - is that we should be prioritizing the development of many, many more small units than are being done now, so that the above price point works. For example if you need to rent for $2/sq. ft. to make the project a good one, then I think that 400 sq. ft. units would rent no problem at all. Good people just want to live here, and they have budget constraints, but they care a lot less about how much space they have. I was originally a little nervous about showing 500 sq. ft. apartments and they were by far the most popular and I never had one person say it was small.

 

And the quality of tenants looking for that type of unit seems high. I met many people in their 20s who were just starting out and making maybe $3,000 a month, had some student loans, and they wanted flexibility in their budget to save and do other things. It was really refreshing. A few people even came with their parents! I mean, a gaggle of mom and pop and siblings who had lived forever in the suburbs and now being pulled out into the world by their 22 year old who just finished college.

 

Anyway, if I were to be looking for properties to redevelop right now in OTR, I'd be looking for buildings that lent themselves to mostly 350-450 sq. ft. units, put in nice finishes, and rent them for $1.75-$2/ft. OTR will be a better place with a lot more of those units and a lot more of those people that would flock to fill them.

 

 

 

I think you're probably correct about size and price when it comes to the Millennial market.  We have 1,100 sf apartments in the CBD that are priced at about $1 - $1.30/sf, (but the additional utility costs with central heating and AC plus in-unit water heaters and washers/dryers are on the high side and nearby parking is very expensive too).  I can confirm that our apartments are really too big for most recent college grads, especially men.  While we cater to more mature professionals who don't move frequently, we still get a lot of 20-something lookers but since they generally don't have much furniture they're often overwhelmed by the amount of space.  AND they're almost always accompanied by their parents anymore, a phenomenon that's new to me.  I suspect it's because the parents may be subsidizing their kids' living expenses.  And they may have safety concerns about urban living as well.  Years ago we used to own 500 sf apartments in the Clifton area and never had trouble keeping them rented.  It's a great size for a single person who doesn't have a lot of furniture.  But maybe times have changed enough where 350 sf is plenty of space for some.  It seems too small to me and I wouldn't want to have to deal with the expense and bother of likely frequent turnover, which is costly and imposes more wear and tear.  But I bet they'd rent quickly in the pricey downtown market, at least among younger people who mainly want to be within walking distance of bars and restaurants in OTR.

^Yes, many parents pay the rent of their 25-30 year-old children.  When I rented my spare bedroom to a coworker I couldn't believe that his dad wrote out 12 checks ahead of time.  Such a thing is simply inconceivable in the family culture I was raised in. 

Or parents buying their kids nice cars so that they can be Uber drivers...

Or parents buying their kids nice cars so that they can be Uber drivers...

 

I haven't heard of that one but I'm sure that it has happened. 

 

The terrible rift that cuts right through the heart of the pizza delivery world are the guys who have to buy their own always-breaking-down cars versus the guys driving their mom's "old" car.  The later is essentially making $500 more per month. 

^I saw an Uber driver hanging out in a convenience store yesterday who I am almost certain had help from his folks to buy the car. The car was just too new and nice for how young he was.

Here’s the latest on Echelon, a $30 million apartment project east of Cincinnati

 

 

The first project from 360 Property Partners Inc., a $30 million luxury apartment development near Jungle Jim’s Eastgate, now has a name.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/02/27/here-s-the-latest-on-echelon-a-30-million.html

^thanks for posting that one ColDayMan[/member]

 

This is another 187  apartments going up in the suburbs like it's no big deal. Whereas for all the hype downtown and OTR haven't added a large number of units recently save for when SCPA apartments opened. When are we going to start adding the raw numbers downtown and what is the city doing wrong that the growth isn't happening?

I don't think it's a fair comparison. Downtown/OTR make up a small percentage of Cincinnati's population, and Cincinnati isn't even a majority of the county, let alone the Metro area. You'll hear about projects in West Chester, Anderson Township, Fairfield, etc. and all together it makes it seems like they are outpacing the city. But the city itself is only ~15% of the regional population.

 

Plus, it's harder to do rehab or infill than greenfield new construction. I'm sure there are ways for the city to improve what it's doing, but I don't think it's being outperformed by the suburbs in new growth.