The plans for that project facing Plum St were in this HCB packet from 22 May 2017: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/may-22-2017-staff-reports-and-attachment-s/

 

The buildings at 400 W Fourth St will be renovated into first floor office with 4 condos above. The building at 415 Plum will use the existing ground floor structure for parking (for the 3 condos at 415 Plum and 4 condos at 400 W Fourth). And above the existing structure at 415 Plum,  the new construction above will be three 2-story townhouse condos. 

56 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

This one story building was clad with some non-ironic Post-Modern EIFS.

 

Is there such a thing as ironic EIFS? 

non-ironic being the modifier for Post-modern, haha. EIFS is never ironic and is always unfunny and wrong and please never use it.

Wow, that metal panel system is so flat and disappointing. Just a little bit of depth in the windows would make a world of difference.

I had my car in for service last Friday at the Monro at Central Parkway and Walnut, and according to the manager the last day they are in operation is the end of December. Apparently they are going to demolish the building for a garage as the property owner is looking to capitalize on the reinvestment in the area. Not sure if a garage makes sense or is 100% accurate but looks like something will be happening on that site.

6 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

I had my car in for service last Friday at the Monro at Central Parkway and Walnut, and according to the manager the last day they are in operation is the end of December. Apparently they are going to demolish the building for a garage as the property owner is looking to capitalize on the reinvestment in the area. Not sure if a garage makes sense or is 100% accurate but looks like something will be happening on that site.

Welp... that's interesting. I was just about to give them a shot (based on your recommendation)!  I will be glad to see that site re-developed, but I sure hope it's not just a garage that goes in there, since it's on the streetcar line and and right across Walnut from the new Kroger. Would be nice to have street-level retail and something more than just car storage. 

But that would block the mural of vegetables falling out of the Kroger tower! /s

I really hope it is something more than just a garage! Doesn’t look quite big enough to support a standard garage (two side by side parking bays are 120 ft.) 

 

With parking minimums repealed, a 500 space garage opening across the street, and streetcar proximity this would be a good spot to try out a residential/mixed use building with very limited parking like the Eighth and Main building in development...

It's a 15,000 square foot site. 100 ft by 150 ft. While a garage there is not infeasible, it would likely not be financeable after reviewing what is coming online in the next year or so in terms of parking (and the streetcar).

 

Looks like the current ownership entity is just a LLC for the previous owner who has owned it since 1983.

Could be related to the 3CDC redevelopment of Court St.  Also, there is a gap in the Court St. street wall where they might sneak in a ramp:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1065269,-84.513192,3a,60y,343.11h,101.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC7sDb7LdJDZxXxwIbgIskA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a new office tower in the 10-14 floor range for Kroger at this corner.  The existing tower will be turned into apartments or even torn down. 

Edited December 3, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg

17 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a new office tower in the 10-14 floor range for Kroger at this corner.  The existing tower will be turned into apartments or even torn down. 

I would say you are partially correct. Kroger has run out of space in there existing building and has offices all over the CBD. There has been a request to bring more of the offices under one roof for some time now. We did studies and assessments about five years ago for Kroger on an office expansion at the downtown main tower. It was productive but nothing came of it. I doubt they will tear down the existing building, If anything build a new midrise office tower, and then use a floor or two to rotate offices from the old building as they do a major renovation. 

FCC with the win again! Thank you lindners! Im sure the recent downtown Kroger and 3cdc court street rehabs are also playing some equation in all of this as well....

 

Now about the salvation army site on Central parkway and main...

 

How about that old CMHA (Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority) building on Central Parkway between Vine and Race?  Been waiting and waiting for something to happen there.

Man if the city could find a better spot for the salvation army you could add a ton of residences on their block.  

 

You could say the same thing for the old CMHA building.  Wasn't there a potential development for their lot not that long ago?  

Edited December 3, 20186 yr by Cincy513

49 minutes ago, troeros said:

FCC with the win again! Thank you lindners! Im sure the recent downtown Kroger and 3cdc court street rehabs are also playing some equation in all of this as well....

 

Now about the salvation army site on Central parkway and main...

 

I wouldn't give the Linder's credit for these projects but that is just me. Way more factors in play plus they are only doing any of the FCC stuff because it benefits them financially. If soccer was a money losing proposition there would be no FCC. Id give any credit (on these new developments) to those who are risking money and all the taxpayers who are funding all the rebates and infrastructure. The stadium will be a cool addition I hope but it isn't the motivating factor in these recent projects. I'm sure they have been in the planning stages for quite a while.

Edited December 3, 20186 yr by SleepyLeroy

53 minutes ago, troeros said:

FCC with the win again! Thank you lindners! Im sure the recent downtown Kroger and 3cdc court street rehabs are also playing some equation in all of this as well....

 

Now about the salvation army site on Central parkway and main...

 

A cautious reminder that nothing has been announced ... and so this is all speculative at this point. 

The center of the city is quickly pulling away from Fountain Square.  The closure of Macy's was a big deal -- we're now going to have 5 years before that block is redeveloped.  Meanwhile, nothing new is going on at The Banks. 

 

Kroger is right in the center of the push north.  They have the power to really put Central Parkway over the top.

 

So we're seeing the nightmare unfold that the blue bloods have feared for 100 years.  We can see why there was an effort to keep OTR down for 50 years after WWII.  The charm is pulling people out of downtown and its parking lot craters.  People don't like to walk around parking lots. 

  

Incentives for two downtown hotels head for City Council vote 

 

Tax breaks for two downtown hotels are headed to the Cincinnati City Council on Wednesday, but two members expressed growing concern over the items that are rewarded in such incentives.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/12/03/incentives-for-two-downtown-hotels-head-for-city.html

 

$100 million Kenwood project lands key approval

 

 

A planned $100 million mixed-use development in Kenwood took a step forward Thursday night.

 

Sycamore Township Trustees voted 2-1 to approve a planned development for Capital Investment Group’s Gallery of Kenwood. Gregg Fusaro, partner with CIG, said with the approval, the firm will now move forward with detailed architectural drawings and financing for the project. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/11/30/100-million-kenwood-project-lands-key-approval.html

8 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

The center of the city is quickly pulling away from Fountain Square.  The closure of Macy's was a big deal -- we're now going to have 5 years before that block is redeveloped.  Meanwhile, nothing new is going on at The Banks. 

 

Kroger is right in the center of the push north.  They have the power to really put Central Parkway over the top.

 

So we're seeing the nightmare unfold that the blue bloods have feared for 100 years.  We can see why there was an effort to keep OTR down for 50 years after WWII.  The charm is pulling people out of downtown and its parking lot craters.  People don't like to walk around parking lots. 

  

They literally just announced a couple weeks ago that the county and the Bengals came to an agreement on the location of the music venue.  So there will be something new going at at the banks.  And with the lot with the parking garage already completed officially not hosting the music venue that can move forward with development.  Sadly I do think the fountain square building will take way too long to redevelop.  There are too many people with ownership of that space, the perfect illustration of too many cooks in the kitchen. 

 

But fountain square is and will always be the center of the city for business.  It's where the most employee are.  It's where the hotels are.  That's not going to change.  OTR has become the center for restaurants and bars, though Walnut by Aronoff and the banks are still very busy and popular every weekend.  This city is big enough that there doesn't need to be one "center" for everything.  The development of OTR, the banks, Pendleton and soon to be West End is good for the overall city.  

Central Parkway is certainly poising itself as an important spine in the city as the development in Over-the-Rhine is balanced by development in the CBD. I do think that the FC Cincinnati stadium will impact the corridor positively. The zoning change packet shows 6 story future development screening the stadium and I could imagine that density of development infilling from City Hall to Liberty between Plum/Central Parkway and Central Ave. Interesting because, while it may have taken 100 years (1929-2029), the vision predicted in the image below might actually happen (with contemporary architecture rather than Second Empire/Beaux Arts, of course): 

And to think literally 12 years ago, there are threads and posts on this very forum on the state of otr and the immense crime and how it was essentially a doomed neighborhood. How the cbd was just as dangerous and no suburbanite would dare to step foot anywhere close downtown, especially that bordered close to otr. 

 

Literally 12 years later, we have a new world class urban grocery store with dense resdential units on Central parkway, a world class soccer stadium that will draw tourists from all over America and other parts of the world, future developments of central parkway with hotels, bars/restaurants, day care facilites, offices, etc...all the while otr is becoming the literal beating heart of cincys business and tourism for suburbanite and people from across the globe. 

 

Its crazy. Especially since it felt like yesterday when otr was declared as America's most dangerous neighborhood and on a list of the most endangered neighborhoods. 

 

That "OTR is the most dangerous neighborhood" thing was bunk from the beginning. I forget the details of the methodology, but it was like one census tract with little recorded population being the census tract with the most violent crimes per capita. It wasn't the whole neighborhood, just one corner, and the "per capita" measure isn't a great one in a place which gets a lot of visitors or transients who aren't recorded as residents.

Here are a couple UrbanCincy articles about it:

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/10/over-the-rhine-is-not-one-of-the-nations-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/

http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/06/intellectually-dishonest-report-claims-otr-is-nations-most-dangerous-neighborhood/

Right, the "most dangerous neighborhood" thing was clickbait. And virtually no one on this forum 10 years ago thought that OTR was a "doomed neighborhood."

12 minutes ago, taestell said:

Right, the "most dangerous neighborhood" thing was clickbait. And virtually no one on this forum 10 years ago thought that OTR was a "doomed neighborhood."

I joined almost exactly 10 years ago as a result for a search of a place to learn more about what would eventually become U Square as I lived across the street and the sign saying, "coming soon" was put up. At that point I had only been in Cincy for about a year and as a "new to an urban area" teenager, I knew next to nothing about OTR. But these forums are what made me learn about what OTR was about and the energy surrounding its potential. I attribute this forum and OTR specifically to the creation of 2018 Jmicha who lives exclusively in urban areas and can't get enough of urbanism, transit, etc. and could never go back to living in suburbia.

5 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

Central Parkway is certainly poising itself as an important spine in the city as the development in Over-the-Rhine is balanced by development in the CBD.

 

 

It has always been the city's destiny to re-center around Central Parkway.  That's why the subway and the parkway were so vigorously opposed by the business community and led directly to the charter reforms and the ouster of the Cox machine.  That's why the Parkway was intentionally ignored when the expressways were planned. 

 

Feeding the Northeast Expressway into the parkway near what is now the casino and having it join what is now I-75 with a ramp starting at the "elbow" made way too much sense.  We could have completely avoided the Fort Washington Way debacle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg

23 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

They literally just announced a couple weeks ago that the county and the Bengals came to an agreement on the location of the music venue.  So there will be something new going at at the banks.  And with the lot with the parking garage already completed officially not hosting the music venue that can move forward with development.  Sadly I do think the fountain square building will take way too long to redevelop.  There are too many people with ownership of that space, the perfect illustration of too many cooks in the kitchen. 

 

But fountain square is and will always be the center of the city for business.  It's where the most employee are.  It's where the hotels are.  That's not going to change.  OTR has become the center for restaurants and bars, though Walnut by Aronoff and the banks are still very busy and popular every weekend.  This city is big enough that there doesn't need to be one "center" for everything.  The development of OTR, the banks, Pendleton and soon to be West End is good for the overall city.  

 

Also, to add to your point, the City Club apartments on 3rd are filling up quickly and the Union Trust Building is now being proposed to be turned into apartments as well. Plus Fourth and Race is finally getting going. There are also several new hotels being planned between the Banks and Seventh Street. I think we all agree with Jake that people don't like walking around surface lots, but there aren't really any surface lots along Fourth or Fifth anywhere near Fountain Square. Most of them are between Seventh and Central Parkway. Hopefully they'll all be gone in the next few years. But that won't make Fountain Square irrelevant. It'll only strengthen it as a public space to have many more people within walking distance. 

4 hours ago, Robuu said:

That "OTR is the most dangerous neighborhood" thing was bunk from the beginning. I forget the details of the methodology, but it was like one census tract with little recorded population being the census tract with the most violent crimes per capita. It wasn't the whole neighborhood, just one corner, and the "per capita" measure isn't a great one in a place which gets a lot of visitors or transients who aren't recorded as residents.

 

It was more about the perception of otr 12 years ago, versus the perception of otr today. 

 

I heard a conversation, these were suburbanite 21-23 year olds talking about rhinegeist. One girl asked the guy if he had ever been to otr, and he said not yet. She replied you should check out it's really cool. 

 

It's just a different mentality nowadays. Especially with the younger generation who were very little during the riots and otr crime collapse. 

Random question...what ever happened to the old user on this site "Micheal L. Redmond"??

 

I saw his username all over the the otr project threads back in the mid 2000's. He always seemed to champion otr during the rougher days and seemed like he was quite in the know with the current projects that were during those times. 

^He started Neon's with John Back.  Also, his wife was the exclusive realtor for a few years for all of the first 3CDC condos.  So combined they made a ton of money. 

 

They bought this house back around 2005 and still live there:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1171851,-84.5145139,3a,48.2y,179.66h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMpKLh_DEuP3g1YIGu9m_kw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's definitely one of the most unusual houses in the city and no doubt worth close to $1 million at this point, if not more. 

37 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

^He started Neon's with John Back.  Also, his wife was the exclusive realtor for a few years for all of the first 3CDC condos.  So combined they made a ton of money. 

 

They bought this house back around 2005 and still live there:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1171851,-84.5145139,3a,48.2y,179.66h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMpKLh_DEuP3g1YIGu9m_kw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's definitely one of the most unusual houses in the city and no doubt worth close to $1 million at this point, if not more. 

 

Wow I had no clue.

 

I wonder if someone could track him down and ask if neons is ever going to make a return lol

The idea of another "new Neon's" is dead. They tried to find the right spot to reopen it but couldn't find one that would work. The bars and restaurants formerly owned by that group have all been spun off to different owners. Molly Wellman owns Myrtle's and Japp's. Melt was spun back off as its own business. OKBB was spun off as well. So I don't believe Michael or John have any ownership stake in any of those bars anymore.

^I remember talking to John Back at the height of Neons' popularity around 2012 or 2013 and he didn't like all of the work he had to put into it, even though they were making a lot of money.  I think he got into it as a hobby and just wanted to be an architect, not a bar owner.  Aside from doing the numbers every day, dealing with turnover and the legal situation they had going with the owner of the building took a ton of time.   

20 hours ago, troeros said:

Random question...what ever happened to the old user on this site "Micheal L. Redmond"??

 

I saw his username all over the the otr project threads back in the mid 2000's. He always seemed to champion otr during the rougher days and seemed like he was quite in the know with the current projects that were during those times. 

I think he's pretty happy on his boat

On 12/4/2018 at 3:47 PM, jmicha said:

I joined almost exactly 10 years ago as a result for a search of a place to learn more about what would eventually become U Square as I lived across the street and the sign saying, "coming soon" was put up. At that point I had only been in Cincy for about a year and as a "new to an urban area" teenager, I knew next to nothing about OTR. But these forums are what made me learn about what OTR was about and the energy surrounding its potential. I attribute this forum and OTR specifically to the creation of 2018 Jmicha who lives exclusively in urban areas and can't get enough of urbanism, transit, etc. and could never go back to living in suburbia.

 

This forum had a similar transformative effect on me as well (I lurked well before I started posting here and this place introduced me to a lot of good urbanist ways of thinking) though I already had some prerequisites in the form of going to Europe and basically living in a flat for 2 weeks about a block from a metro train station in a midsized city (Bilbao Spain) - it made all these ideas far more tangible to me.

 

And to think this all came from me having an oddball interest in why I-75 through Cincinnati was different than other expressways I've seen (the Lockland trench and a whole lot of other oddities) finding info on that via Jake's website and stumbling into this forum.  I had an interest in better understanding local politics and while at the time it was dysmal this forum helped me get a better grasp on it crica 2005-7.

Edited December 6, 20186 yr by neilworms

There's some great information coming out of the ongoing City Council meeting. Currently discussing the findings of the downtown traffic study:

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/citicable/

Findlay Playground was fenced off two weeks ago.  Who wants to bet it never reopens?  Too easy for Cranley to sell off this city-owned land to a donor. 

 

Edited February 13, 20196 yr by jmecklenborg

50 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Findlay Playground was fenced off two years ago.  Who wants to bet it never reopens?  Too easy for Cranley to sell off this city-owned land to a donor. 

 

 

 

Good! Less drug dealing! Drug dealers love ungentrified parks and pocket parks.

On 12/3/2018 at 2:00 PM, mcmicken said:

I had my car in for service last Friday at the Monro at Central Parkway and Walnut, and according to the manager the last day they are in operation is the end of December. Apparently they are going to demolish the building for a garage as the property owner is looking to capitalize on the reinvestment in the area. Not sure if a garage makes sense or is 100% accurate but looks like something will be happening on that site.

 

Has anyone been able to get more information on this? 

Latest round of tax credit recipients have been announced... and here are all of the winners from the southwest region:

 

Quote

222-226 Mohawk (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $1,159,779

Total Tax Credit:  $227,000

Address: 222-226 Mohawk, Cincinnati, 45214

The two residential buildings on Mohawk Street in Cincinnati were built around 1865. After approximately 130 years of use, they fell into severe disrepair and are vacant. Recently acquired by the Hamilton County Land Bank before being transferred to the applicant, the buildings will be rehabilitated into six new apartments.

 

1513 Vine Street (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $3,138,993

Total Tax Credit:  $250,000

Address: 1513 Vine Street, Cincinnati, 45202

A project undertaken by Over-the-Rhine Community Housing in collaboration with 3CDC, 1513 Vine Street will be rehabilitated to its original function: eight affordable residential units above a first-floor commercial space. The four-story building was built in the late 19th century and is currently vacant.

 

1517 Vine Street (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $2,388,364

Total Tax Credit:  $250,000

Address: 1517 Vine Street, Cincinnati, 45202

The building at 1517 Vine Street in the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood will be rehabilitated by Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and 3CDC into six affordable rental units plus restaurant space on the first floor. Dating to the 1890s, the building exemplifies the Italianate style of architecture found in the neighborhood.

 

1662 Blue Rock (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $1,129,900

Total Tax Credit:  $159,000

Address: 1662 Blue Rock, Cincinnati, 45223

Built in 1873 to serve an Irish Catholic congregation in Cincinnati's Northside neighborhood, the former St. Patrick's church sanctuary will be renovated to host weddings, music performances, and other community events.

 

1833 Sycamore Street (Flatiron Building) (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $1,275,000

Total Tax Credit:  $250,000

Address: 1833 Sycamore Street, Cincinnati, 45202

The Flatiron Building, referring to its triangular shape, is a small, iconic gateway to the Mount Auburn neighborhood of Cincinnati. Constructed around 1895, the building had street level commercial space with residential units above. The building became vacant about 30 years ago but was recently stabilized by the Hamilton County Land Bank. After rehabilitation, the building will provide the surrounding area with market-rate apartments above a commercial space.

 

First National Bank Building (Cincinnati, Hamilton County)

Total Project Cost:  $66,812,140

Total Tax Credit:  $5,000,000

Address: 105 East Fourth Street, Cincinnati, 45220

The First National Bank Building in downtown Cincinnati will be converted into a dual-branded hotel. There are three sections of the building - the largest and oldest part was built in 1905 and designed by renowned architect Daniel Burnham. The largely vacant office floors will be converted to hotel rooms and amenity spaces. Other areas will be finished as indoor parking and retail and restaurant spaces associated with the hotels.

 

Mt. Auburn flatiron building getting renovated. Awesome!

Incidentally, there are no cheap houses left in Mt. Auburn.  I have a friend from work who bought a move-in ready house on Helen in 2016 for...$38,000. 

$100 million dual-branded hotel redevelopment project lands state tax credit

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 12, 2018, 10:00am EST Updated an hour ago

 

 

The third time was the charm for NewcrestImage LLC, the hotel developer and owner that wants to transform a historical downtown Cincinnati office into a dual-branded hotel.

Fourth & Walnut Centre, also known as the First National Bank Building, was awarded $5 million in Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits. Mehul Patel, chairman and CEO of NewcrestImage, has said without the state tax credits it would have been impossible to move the project forward.

 

MORE

Two Over-the-Rhine housing projects get state help

By Chris Wetterich  – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Two Vine Street buildings have received state historic tax credits, which will help developers Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. build new affordable units. 

The Ohio Development Services Agency awarded $250,000 in historic tax credits to 1513 Vine St., where eight affordable residential units will be built above a first-floor commercial space. The agency gave 1517 Vine St. another $250,000 in historic tax credits, which will allow it to build six affordable rental units plus restaurant space on the first floor. The total project cost is estimated at $5.5 million.

 

MORE

13 minutes ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Two Over-the-Rhine housing projects get state help

By Chris Wetterich  – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Two Vine Street buildings have received state historic tax credits, which will help developers Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. build new affordable units. 

The Ohio Development Services Agency awarded $250,000 in historic tax credits to 1513 Vine St., where eight affordable residential units will be built above a first-floor commercial space. The agency gave 1517 Vine St. another $250,000 in historic tax credits, which will allow it to build six affordable rental units plus restaurant space on the first floor. The total project cost is estimated at $5.5 million.

 

MORE

14 units for $5.5 million is "affordable"???

Applicants for historic tax credits have a built in motive to over estimate the rehab costs, and it certainly seems that's been done here -- these buildings don't even appear to be in very bad shape, as far as OTR vacant stock is concerned. By over estimating costs, the percentage of the credit goes down, and that wins points in the scoring. 

 

The thing is, in the end, nobody to my knowledge ever compares the certified rehabilitation expenses, against the proposed total project cost. It's sort of amazing.

21 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

14 units for $5.5 million is "affordable"???

The apartments will be affordable once they're built.  The building out of these old OTR buildings is always expensive, even if their estimate is inflated.  

1 minute ago, Cincy513 said:

The apartments will be affordable once they're built.  The building out of these old OTR buildings is always expensive, even if their estimate is inflated.  

I renovate houses, I get it. But this is nearly $400k PER UNIT. Do you know what the debt service is on that figure? Adding in all the monthly operational costs, how on earth can these units rent for below market rate????