This recent renovation on Klotter has been hit by the city for code violations:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1471022/220-Klotter-Ave-Clifton-OH-45219

 

There was a guy renovating this house by himself throughout 2015.  I'm not sure what they got it for, but it's currently listed for $330k, which is at least $100k more than anything on the north side of the street has ever sold for (some on the south side have sold for $700k).  I looked at the listed violations and there were quite a number of them, most of them electrical, so they might have to rip out some of the renovations.  I don't know if they didn't get permits or what went on.  But it's sort of amazing to see people make big mistakes like this. 

 

 

 

The property last tansferred in 1998 for $120k.  He purchased it from a long time owner....an alarming number of whom don't invest in their building when needed.

it amazes me sometimes seeing what people do when renovating houses... it also amazes me when people buy them...

 

Where I grew up, a full gutting of a house, let alone the gutting of a bathroom or kitchen, was completely unheard of.  I guess people occasionally got new kitchen cabinets, but for the most part, everyone had kitchens and bathrooms that were original to the house.  The only major improvements people did to there homes were finishing basements, a new deck or patio, or putting in a pool.  People added storm windows but didn't get new windows. 

 

It would great to see a study tracking the extent to which all of the cable shows have influenced home renovation behavior. 

 

I missed this when it was first posted.  Great news for Silverton, if they can get this project off the ground! The neighborhoods between Pleasant Ridge and Kenwood are a little overlooked, IMO, and I think a development like this could do a lot to bringing some attention and investment back to the area.

it amazes me sometimes seeing what people do when renovating houses... it also amazes me when people buy them...

 

Where I grew up, a full gutting of a house, let alone the gutting of a bathroom or kitchen, was completely unheard of.  I guess people occasionally got new kitchen cabinets, but for the most part, everyone had kitchens and bathrooms that were original to the house.  The only major improvements people did to there homes were finishing basements, a new deck or patio, or putting in a pool.  People added storm windows but didn't get new windows. 

 

It would great to see a study tracking the extent to which all of the cable shows have influenced home renovation behavior. 

 

 

That kind of depends on the age and era in which the house was built.  A lot of houses from the 1920s and before had major bathroom remodels done in the 1940s and 1950s simply because of the significant change in fixtures and finish types that were popular.  Many a claw-foot tub, pedestal sink, tall-tank toilet, and white subway tile were ripped out in favor of built-in tub/showers, vanities with extra storage, one-piece lowboy toilets, and pretty bold colors.  Houses and apartments built in the 1930s however generally had those from the start, and even with some of the more garish tile colors (pink, yellow, black, teal) have a level of quality and chic that has lasted until today with not a lot of excess maintenance required. 

 

The same goes for the kitchen.  Pre-depression they were all about big cast iron and enameled ranges, wood ice boxes, freestanding hutch cabinets, and large porcelain sinks on legs.  Think of the kitchen from A Christmas Story, you think that would last much longer?  It's all quite primitive and difficult to clean.  By the late 1930s the trend is for actual cabinets like we know them today, much more sleek and built-in.  So those 1920s and earlier kitchens were quickly gutted and redone around the same time as the bathroom, and maybe they got a facelift in the 1970s when it was finally time for new appliances.  By now anything holding on from the 1970s would be hopelessly worn out, and it was mostly all built-in by that time and made with questionable laminates, veneers, and finishes.  Kitchens from the 1930s through the 1950s are just a bit more modular and generally of better build quality (if not appearance) so they can be repainted, new hardware screwed on, freestanding ranges and refrigerators replaced as needed without having to bust them out of the cabinetry, etc. 

 

An interesting parallel (or reversal?) to this is the refrigerators themselves.  The big old GE "Monitor Tops" that have the cylindrical condenser coil on top are actually decently efficient and quite reliable even by today's standards.  In fact there's many still running.  It's the post-war refrigerators that are junkers and huge power wasters because of the introduction of automatic defrost and bigger freezer compartments, which they've only fairly recently been able to make more efficient.  The old refrigerators were also much more heavily built since they used the heavy door and latch to squeeze the gasket against the frame rather than the newer ones that use magnetic gaskets.  So here's a situation where someone who bought a refrigerator in the 1930s or 1940s could have kept it running for decades without a problem, but someone in a 1950s ranch would almost need to replace theirs as often as their rust bucket car. 

You're correct about all that -- I suppose what I should have said was people didn't remodel kitchens and bathrooms that were from the 1950s-70s in the 80s and 90s.  All of those shows started in the 2000s...of course it makes sense to renovate houses that have stood vacant or working class housing that is suddenly trendy.  But just last week I heard a caller on Dave Ramsey's show wanting to do $130,000 in kitchen and bathroom renovations to a house that was built in 2001. 

 

I don't think I or most people heard the term "flip" until those shows appeared.  It makes for great(?) TV of course, but completely renovating a house in preparation for a sale was something I certainly had never heard of until those shows gained popularity.  There are some (and I emphasize *some*) situations where this activity can be profitable or even very profitable, but there's more often a perverse corollary between it and spending tons of money on a college education -- when people are convinced that they are making an "investment", they are much more willing to part with their money, or to take out a ridiculous loan. 

 

The other home improvement that was popular in the 70s and 80s that has pretty much disappeared was the screened-in porch.  My neighborhood was littered with these things, and nobody really used them for anything other than storing toys.  I remember my friend's family barely used their screened-in porch in part because you had to roll the dishwasher into the middle of the kitchen in order to open the back door.  Also, part of the reason that decks became popular was because you could make them level with a house's back door.  Most of those postwar houses had a simple slab of concrete for a back patio. 

 

 

 

Ugh, I'm looking at houses right now and if the people have put in crummy 2000+ cardboard doors, painted all the wood white and gutted the bathrooms I just move on. The pre-'90/2000s stuff is much more pleasant looking to me. Let me decide if I want to live in a blizzard or not rather than doing the blizzard ahead of time.

^ Don't forget the cheap Home Depot "stained oak" kitchen cabinets and white appliances.  I've seen a lot of that and it makes me sad. 

The last thing I want my home looking like is whatever was in Home Depot/Lowe's 4 months ago.

Ugh, I'm looking at houses right now and if the people have put in crummy 2000+ cardboard doors, painted all the wood white and gutted the bathrooms I just move on. The pre-'90/2000s stuff is much more pleasant looking to me. Let me decide if I want to live in a blizzard or not rather than doing the blizzard ahead of time.

 

Regarding painted trim- I currently live in a fairly large historic home, and often get asked why I painted the trim when the home was almost completely renovated last year. It already was painted when we purchased it, and that would be the easiest answer. But there's more. I've been through the whole strip the woodwork frenzy before on previous homes I've owned. I've never been unhappy that I did, despite the monumental effort involved. But man is that a lot of work, and I sometimes wonder what toll it's taken on my health as a result of all the exposure I've had to the chemicals through the years.

 

Most people never realize that most trim was always intended to be painted. The reason is, as in my current home with its large sized trim, the wood is a rather low grade of inexpensive pine. Or at least inexpensive at the time it was built.  The trim in my home was always intended to be painted, especially considering it was originally built when my neighborhood served as the location of many country homes and estates.  If the trim would have been done in an oak, cherry, mahogany or similar species, then clearly, the trim would have been stained to enhance the natural eauty and enhance the grain patterns. Of course, in succeeding years, style or individual preference could of resulted in this trim being painted over. Many times, paint appears when the original shellac finish started to significantly deteriorate, as was common in hot, humid locations such as SW Ohio. It was even more common to paint over pine trim that had been patterend to mimic another wood species, usually oak. As shellac darkened, bubbled and sagged under years of heat exposure, a faux grain patterened finish looked worse for the wear, and painting was an easy fix.

 

You'll also see trim being painted after major renovations of older structures simply because trim was lost, or damaged.  In some homes, installing plumbing, modern heating, and even electrical systems damaged trim during its removal to add these systems. In solid brick constructed buildings with plaster directly applied on the brick exterior walls, electrical systems were run behind baseboards, with outlet boxes being cut into them. Afterwards, manyhomeowners were unhappy with the "broken" state of what remained of their once beautiful trim.  The easy fix was again to simply fill the damaged areas and paint over it.

 

 

Yeah, pine is not worth the effort to refinish.  At least half of Cincinnati's 19th century homes seem to have pine trim or some other cheap wood.  You only really see the nicer woods in Clifton Gaslight, North Avondale, and a few other locations built from 1880-1925.  I'm not sure where that wood came from, but I'm sure most of it came from old growth forests of the kind that don't exist anymore in the United States.  I haven't looked it up but I suspect that the availability of those higher quality woods was made possible by mountain railroads, and their transport to this area by cross-country railroads, but then those choice trees were logged so rapidly that there was nothing but pine left over by the postwar suburban boom.  Of course some mansions before and after have extensive finishing with exotic woods, but it seems like for a relatively brief period of time the better woods were much more affordable. 

You're correct about all that -- I suppose what I should have said was people didn't remodel kitchens and bathrooms that were from the 1950s-70s in the 80s and 90s.  All of those shows started in the 2000s...of course it makes sense to renovate houses that have stood vacant or working class housing that is suddenly trendy.  But just last week I heard a caller on Dave Ramsey's show wanting to do $130,000 in kitchen and bathroom renovations to a house that was built in 2001. 

 

I don't think I or most people heard the term "flip" until those shows appeared.  It makes for great(?) TV of course, but completely renovating a house in preparation for a sale was something I certainly had never heard of until those shows gained popularity.  There are some (and I emphasize *some*) situations where this activity can be profitable or even very profitable, but there's more often a perverse corollary between it and spending tons of money on a college education -- when people are convinced that they are making an "investment", they are much more willing to part with their money, or to take out a ridiculous loan. 

 

The other home improvement that was popular in the 70s and 80s that has pretty much disappeared was the screened-in porch.  My neighborhood was littered with these things, and nobody really used them for anything other than storing toys.  I remember my friend's family barely used their screened-in porch in part because you had to roll the dishwasher into the middle of the kitchen in order to open the back door.  Also, part of the reason that decks became popular was because you could make them level with a house's back door.  Most of those postwar houses had a simple slab of concrete for a back patio. 

 

For the past 15 years, my parents have been continually redecorating various rooms in their house -- the same house I grew up in and they've lived in since the 70s. I think my old bedroom has been completely repainted and reorganized twice (and re-carpeted once) since I moved away for college. The living room has been repainted twice. This is definitely the result of too much time spent watching HGTV, as they don't get frequent visitors and don't intend to sell the home any time soon.

I'm not sure I'd put the blame on HGTV or remodeling shows. Though these may give people inspiration or that final kick to do a project I think it has a lot more to do with how cheap simple renovations/redecoration projects are now when compared to those same types of projects in the past and the ease in which someone can learn how to do something themselves with online tutorials, youtube, etc.

 

You can get a decent looking bathroom or kitchen and do it yourself significantly cheaper than you could in the past when mass produced products weren't quite as common. Something like simple wall tile can be purchased for less than $1/square foot and frankly be fine. Something like Ikea cabinets which honestly aren't that bad can be purchased for less than a prebuilt cabinet at Home Depot and the installation is fairly simple for anyone who has ever built anything. And the en result is usually better looking than the ugly crap you can get from Home Depot.

 

Furniture is also significantly cheaper than it ever has been. You used to buy pieces that you'd intend to pass down for generations and was built incredibly well. Now you can get a pretty decent piece of furniture for a fraction of the cost of something built to outlive you and it will likely hold up just fine and look good for long enough before you grow tired of it and want a change.

 

Things are just cheaper and easier to change than they used to be. The flipping industry and HGTV are just a result of this, not the cause.

They really have made the parts and pieces way easier to work with as well. So many times I buy something from the hardware store, look at it, take a glance at the instructions and go, "Wow, who thought of this? They manged to make this so simple." The old thing you take out is usually Rube Goldberg-esque compared to what replaces it.

I got something in the mail yesterday from House of Adam downtown that said they were closing and having a huge closeout sale starting Thursday. They've been open for something like 50 or 60 years.

Well that sucks. I always enjoyed their window displays.

Enquirer article ( http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/02/03/house-adam-clothing-store-close-spring/79747524/)  says the store is closing as a result of the building, 622 Vine, being sold.

Having the name Adam, I have always been a huge fan of them and their sign. If it doesn't end up in the sign museum, I need that to hang on my own home.

Election board OKs move to Norwood

Hamilton County's board of elections moved closer on Wednesday to a new home in Norwood.

 

The board - made up of two Democrats and two Republicans - voted 4-0 to leave its long-time headquarters in downtown Cincinnati for new digs just north of the city. Board members have said they support the move because it is centrally located, is close to bus lines, has plenty of free parking and would give the board more space for its staff, equipment and records.

...

The plan will now move to county commissioners, who oversee the board's budget.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/03/election-board-oks-move-norwood/79757588/

Former Sheraton Hotel & Conference Center to be demolished for redevelopment

 

 

A huge hotel and conference center along Interstate 275 is going to be demolished to make way for redevelopment.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/02/04/exclusive-one-of-cincinnatis-largest-hotel-to-be.html

Good riddance! Its been empty for at least 10 years now and has completely fallen into disrepair. Its not a great location along route 4, but it could be put to better use than just serving as blight.

“No one builds hotels with ballrooms and nightclubs in the suburbs any more. It kind of became a dinosaur.”

Madtree is going to build a 242 space parking lot on their new property across the street from Oakley Station. The Oakley Community Council voted to grant Madtree $1.25M from the Oakley TIF district for their new parking lot. This grant will then make 115 of those 242 spaces "public" for the next 19 years (remainder of the TIF). This, of course, after TIF money was granted for the giant parking garage going in at Oakley Station for Anthem.

 

http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/44430.pdf?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%27201600259%27

 

Not exactly sure what 115 "public" spaces on the property is any good for, being so far from Oakley Square.

Ugh... really?! As if that stretch of Madison needed more surface parking. The TIF money ought be used to make Madison easier to cross for pedestrians, so that the abundance of parking on the north side can be used for MadTree customers. Obviously, MadTree would have to work out a deal with Crossroads, but for $2.6 million (the cost of building the new parking lot), I'm sure a deal could be struck.

 

 

That picture makes me cringe. And all those undeveloped lots will become parking, too.

 

Perhaps build a pedestrian bridge over Madison with the $$!

There already are two pedestrian bridges crossing Madison, on either side of the railroad tracks. Improving pedestrian access at the mid-block could be nice, too... if they added a crosswalk at the entrance into the Crossroads Annex parking lot.

 

 

Yes, it is awful that a private property owner is allowed to do what he wants.  They are just striping what is already existing pavement.  The real question is why Oakley Community Council/Cincinnati is giving them $1.45 million for something they were obviously going to do anyway. 

 

Don't blame the private property owner, blame the government handing them freebies they don't need.  I think you can all agree there are better ways to spend $1.45 million in the Oakley TIF area. 

The only benefit this has for Oakley (giving the TIF money, not MadTree moving) is that people won't park on residential streets when visiting MadTree. I bet MadTree would have built that parking regardless of whether they got the TIF funds.

 

All that said, MadTree will be a huge boost to Oakley.

I bet MadTree would have built that parking regardless of whether they got the TIF funds.

 

This is what bothers me the most, I think. I'm not upset with MadTree for extracting everything they can, as they should. But they definitely would be building the parking without the TIF funds. I don't see how this prevents folks from parking on side streets at all. Furthermore, for what reason would one park at MadTree but not go to MadTree? There is literally nothing else over there except the asian joint that has parking and MadMar flats that also has parking. I just don't understand the need for "public" spaces. Also, will the spaces be designated public vs. only for MadTree?

 

TIF money can be used for basically anything and they (the Oakley Community Council and City) have decided 114 parking spaces is a worthwhile use of $1.25M?

The only benefit this has for Oakley (giving the TIF money, not MadTree moving) is that people won't park on residential streets when visiting MadTree. I bet MadTree would have built that parking regardless of whether they got the TIF funds.

 

All that said, MadTree will be a huge boost to Oakley.

 

There aren't even any residential streets near there, so the risk of spillover is negligible, in my opinion. The nearest residential street is Brazee, I suppose. Even there, you have to cross Madision, and walk under the rail road tracks. It just seems unlikely many people would do that.

I've personally parked on residential streets to walk to MadTree at their current location. There aren't any residential streets really close to that either. The closest neighborhood is packed with people parking to get to MadTree there.

Awesome news, this place has sat empty forever!

 

Historic Mount Adams church to become event center

Sep 30, 2015, 12:44pm EDT

Tom Demeropolis

Senior Staff Reporter

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

 

After owning the former Holy Cross Monastery and Church in Mount Adams for more than 35 years, Towne Properties has finally figured out what to do with the church.

 

Neil Bortz, a principal with Mount Adams-based Towne Properties, said the space – vacant since 1977 – has been a tough nut to crack.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/09/30/historic-mount-adams-church-to-become-event-center.html

 

The Business Courier has posted an update of this project for subscribers.

Yes, it is awful that a private property owner is allowed to do what he wants.  They are just striping what is already existing pavement.  The real question is why Oakley Community Council/Cincinnati is giving them $1.45 million for something they were obviously going to do anyway. 

 

Don't blame the private property owner, blame the government handing them freebies they don't need.  I think you can all agree there are better ways to spend $1.45 million in the Oakley TIF area. 

 

Yeah.  As much as I hate surface lots, everything on that side of the tracks is already a disaster, from the ugly new apartment complexes to the existing sea of parking lots to the crossroads cult church building to that fully visible power station.  I agree that the real tragedy is that Oakley/Cincinnati felt the need to subsidize a parking lot that was without question going to be built anyway instead of focusing that money on the pedestrian experience between Oakley Square and the railroad bridge.

Urban Expansion is renovating 1010 Elm St:

 

I'm glad to see residential rehabs move south of Central Parkway, as "near OTR". Hopefully the spillover will continue onto Court St, which has a ton of potential if the upper floors of the buildings get converted into apartments/condos.

Hey folks - I have a rather specific rehab query; can't quite find where it would fit; and don't know it warrants a new thread. So here goes...

 

It's about kitchen design in small 1BR apartments, between 450-600 sq. ft. I think the target market is single people or couples < 35 years old.

 

Do folks still expect to have an oven as part of these kitchens? We are rehabbing a 6 unit building in OTR now, and the kitchens are going to be necessarily small, so we want them to be attractive and efficient, and certainly not turn folks off. But the standard range takes up a mammoth amount of space in a small kitchen that could usefully be storage if you go with only a cooktop + microwave, or perhaps a countertop microwave/convection micro-oven. So I'm thinking to have a base cabinet with pull out drawer space and a cooktop above, instead of the standard oven/cooktop range.

 

Again sorry about this possibly strange and specific diversion, but you never know what folks might have strong opinions about! ;-)

 

What about those smaller RV size-oven/stoves that you see in apartments built from the '40s-'60s?

^ I haven't looked at those. Wonder if I can make them fit in stock cabinet spaces. I'm not into the 'micro apartment' kitchen category (not that small), where you are buying pre-fab complete units that are designed from scratch for very small spaces. Plus, it's still an oven, no matter how small, and so it still takes up limited and thus valuable storage space below or above the countertop.

 

I've heard good things about rather small countertop units like this: http://www.amazon.com/Breville-BOV800XL-1800-Watt-Convection-Toaster/dp/B001L5TVGW/ref=sr_1_2?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1457194567&sr=1-2&keywords=breville

 

Of course those take up valuable space on the countertop! But at least it's a choice, and could be moved.

I have a 20" gas range in my 100 year old apartment, and an 18" dishwasher.  They definitely save on base cabinet space.  Magic Chef, Amana, and Hotpoint make small ranges, and even Best Buy carries many of them (maybe just online).  Yes the stovetop gets a bit crowded if you're cooking a big meal, especially involving a large saucepan plus a big pot for boiling, but it's manageable.  The smaller dishwasher is still big enough to fit said saucepan on the top rack.  I do have a full size refrigerator which I definitely appreciate because more modern ones tend to have smaller freezers than in the past due to the extra insulation required, but there are 3/4 size refrigerators out there too. 

 

All that said, if I were looking at an apartment and there was no oven at all, I would have to pass without question.  Toaster ovens are not big enough to fit baking sheets or frozen pizzas of any reasonable size, and they take up valuable counter space as you said.  They're hard to hide away too, and it's impractical to put them on top of the refrigerator which you can do with a microwave if there's no cabinet above it.  The oven in a 20" range is quite large since you still have just as much height as in a standard 30" model. 

 

There are some standalone small cooktops out there, but they're expensive.  Standalone small wall ovens are a rare beast if they even exist at all, as are combo microwaves/convection ovens.  In those cases you're getting much more expensive because they're a niche product usually intended for high-end kitchenettes as part of bar areas or pool houses.  The small gas ranges have the advantage of being relatively inexpensive since they serve the old apartment market that has limited space and money.  They're mostly gas too because (as in my case) the older apartment buildings where they're most used don't usually have the 240-volt service needed to drive electric appliances, though there are small electric ranges there too.  I would personally prefer to have an electric oven and a gas stove but I'll take all gas over all electric.   

^ good thoughts. I haven't looked at narrow ranges, and hadn't even contemplated them. I suspect that it will conflict with my overall desired aesthetic, because of the target old apartment market.

 

I've been interested in the narrower dishwashers also, but have so far found them to be quite a bit more expensive than the standard, which is really annoying and probably a deal killer given our appliance budget.

 

[Edit: I take back what i assumed about the design aesthetic -- Avanti and Summit both make small ranges that are nice looking, even if I have no idea about their quality]

I live in an old apartment in over the rhine, with an old chambers stove from the 50s. If I were looking for an apartment, I would probably pass on a place that didn't have an oven. However, I also have a dishwasher, which I exclusively use as a drying rack after I've hand-washed my dishes. So that I could do without, which would have freed up more space for cabinets.

^Counterpoint: wife and I have a Breville convection toaster oven that has largely replaced our standard oven.  It can fit a half-sheet pan and up to a 14" pizza.  We still use the standard oven on occasion for larger stuff, of course, but I'm convinced that a couple could get by rather well with a nice toaster oven.  Caveats about counter space apply.

Don't get a gas oven that has the knobs on the front. It's too easy to walk by and mistakenly turn on the burners.  I almost burned down an apartment when I rolled my mountain bike through the kitchen and the handlebar turn on the stove.  More recently a plumber pulled out my refrigerator and his backside turned on my stove, and his coat was laying across two of the burners that by chance weren't the ones that turned on. 

My gas range is in perpetual lock mode whenever it's not in use, ever since I watched my cat accidentally turn the oven on. Even electric ranges are pretty easy to accidentally turn on, they aren't as dangerous at first but it's much easier to not notice it's on.

I've never had that problem.  I have to push the knobs in pretty hard in order to allow them to turn. 

We rarely use our gas oven now that we have a GE Advantium Microwave oven.

^ I'm surprised no one has posted anything about the mixed-use development that just went up in Downtown Loveland.

^ I'm surprised no one has posted anything about the mixed-use development that just went up in Downtown Loveland.

 

It's pretty big.  I saw it under construction over the summer but haven't been over there since. 

As Cincinnati looks to keep Macy’s and Saks, it considers new downtown strategy

 

When Saks Fifth Avenue announced it was leaving downtown for Kenwood Collection in Sycamore Township in 2013 – a move it later aborted – then-City Manager Milton Dohoney’s administration, developers and building owners launched an effort to try to convince Saks to stay by pledging to create a Race Street retail corridor. [...]

 

“When I first came in there was this focused approach on one street. We took a step back and said there should be downtown strategy,” Bedolla said. “We don’t want something that will sit on the shelf.”

 

 

The reason that OTR was able to revitalize so rapidly is because all of the effort was put on developing one street -- Vine Street. Not only that, but one block at a time starting at Central Parkway and marching north. If we had taken the approach of "let's revitalize all of Over-the-Rhine at once," the effort would have failed.

 

So it's disappointing to see city leaders backing away from the Race Street retail corridor plan and saying, "we're going to support retail all over the CBD!"

As Cincinnati looks to keep Macy’s and Saks, it considers new downtown strategy

 

When Saks Fifth Avenue announced it was leaving downtown for Kenwood Collection in Sycamore Township in 2013 – a move it later aborted – then-City Manager Milton Dohoney’s administration, developers and building owners launched an effort to try to convince Saks to stay by pledging to create a Race Street retail corridor. [...]

 

“When I first came in there was this focused approach on one street. We took a step back and said there should be downtown strategy,” Bedolla said. “We don’t want something that will sit on the shelf.”

 

 

The reason that OTR was able to revitalize so rapidly is because all of the effort was put on developing one street -- Vine Street. Not only that, but one block at a time starting at Central Parkway and marching north. If we had taken the approach of "let's revitalize all of Over-the-Rhine at once," the effort would have failed.

 

So it's disappointing to see city leaders backing away from the Race Street retail corridor plan and saying, "we're going to support retail all over the CBD!"

 

I see what you're saying but I somewhat disagree.

 

First of all saying we're going to have a "Race Street Retail Corridor" was somewhat random to begin with, and only occurred because Sak's and one entrance to Macy's was there on Race Street. But the truth is the urban fabric has some major holes over there, and it's not near the streetcar line.

 

Second of all 3cdc acts more like the manager of a shopping mall in OTR and has special rights to those retail spaces in the buildings they redevelop. No such relationships exists for the buildings in the CBD. In fact the only strategy we've had in the CBD was for the city to directly subsidize department stores, which is an awful way to try to "pick winners" because sooner or later you're going to lose. So I can understand trying to change that strategy.

3CDC has done a great job of filling the 84.51 building with restaurants... but other than that, Race St now doesn't have a lot of room for new retail. To my eye, Race St doesn't have enough small storefronts to make for a vibrant shopping experience (as contrasted with the area around 13th and Vine).  When it comes to future retail in the CBD, I think 4th St has more potential, with lots of smaller storefronts, plus a few larger parcels like Mabley and the future 4th & Race development.

I'm not sure where else to post this, but have been pondering this for a while.  The opportunity exists for Cincinnati to activate the streetfront through the use of LED lights, boards and signs, but it seems a lot of the signs downtown are very conservative compared to a lot of other cities I've been to.  I would look at Chicago or Toronto for an example, where they often incorporate signs as a way to capture your attention, but Cincinnati has a very conservative approach.

 

For example, the Westin by Fountain Square would be a great place to locate a wrap around LED board in the front, scrolling scores, events, ads, etc.  But nothing like that exists downtown.

 

Does anyone have any input on why Cincinnati is so sign conservative compared to other cities?