Well, I've certainly seen high end auto dealers like Urbanite is suggesting done in an attractive manner, but as 3231 notes, they don't produce much pedestrian traffic as it is a low volume retail op.  They can be seen on the fringes of many healthy downtowns like Seattle or San Francisco.  They used to be found on the fringe of Downtown Cleveland, for that matter- note the Corlett building and the building at East 30th and Carnegie, among others.

Although, if you had car dealerships like you see in central London where two or three models are in a small showroom and the dealer then orders up a car for you. If the dealership had a cool, thematic cafe and gift shop in there (see Southeast Harley Davidson) then it could certainly generate some foot traffic!

Although, if you had car dealerships like you see in central London where two or three models are in a small showroom and the dealer then orders up a car for you. If the dealership had a cool, thematic cafe and gift shop in there (see Southeast Harley Davidson) then it could certainly generate some foot traffic!

 

Now that would be cool... amazing how in an older, denser, transit-pedestrian city (and nation), the auto is made to adapt to the urban environment but in the USA, it's the opposite.

throw in an abc carpet & home for the furniture/home stuff end:

 

http://www.abchome.com/

abc carpet is ok to look around, but dollar for dollar in goods, it's overpriced.

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

um what about all the existing vacant storefronts?  Isn't that what we want filled in?

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

um what about all the existing vacant storefronts?  Isn't that what we want filled in?

 

Never, the loss of the hippodrome ruined cleveland, Forever!

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

Did I miss something over the weekend?

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

Did I miss something over the weekend?

 

Yes, apparently its all gone.

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

Did I miss something over the weekend?

 

No, just CTownsFinest once again glossing things over and omitting the facts. :roll:

The Guv posted this in the Euclid Corridor thread, but I thought it would also be appropriate here.  It's an awesome listen regarding Euclid, the proposed furniture district, the district of design, and filling in Euclid along the midtown section.

 

http://www.wcpn.org/index.php/WCPN/soi/10786/

 

 

With Euclid Ave and the District of Design taking flight, I was wondering that the Medical Mart may not be aptly suited for Euclid's retail environment.

i wonder if a youth hostel would be a good fit on or near the "new" euclid? all the hostel plans seem to have died off, maybe there can be a place for one along there someday?

Honestly I can't see an easier thing to sell than a hostel.  With the amount of people looking to move into the city that post on the Travel Assistance thread that may not know much about the city, this would be a good amenity to have until they find a neighborhood to their liking, let alone for the travelers (not tourists) that come to our fair city.

^^how about 1010?  Could be incorporated in the bruer complex as a whole...  Seriously, with the potential of CSU College town and buildings being converted, I really can't see why hostels weren't ever brought up.  In the US, the two hostels I've stayed at were Drexel University and Boston University, so it could be university based as well.  Not to mention, whoever opened one up would practically have a monopoly since Cleveland is not listed in any of the international hostel books I've seen and when you search the worldwide database, Cleveland is again no where to be found.  I bet it would have a small postive impact on tourism if we did have one downtown, especially to younger people doing a US tour. 

Eloquent reply there MTS.

 

Apologize for not being more clear, I was responding to the WCPN news story.

 

The point I wanted to make was that if Euclid Ave does re-emerge as a cutting edge retail destination, perhaps the Higbees location would be better suited for retail that is more inclusive, more appealing to average people.

 

With Euclid Ave and the District of Design taking flight, I was wondering that the Medical Mart may not be aptly suited for Euclid's retail environment.

 

WTF?

Eloquent reply there MTS.

 

Apologize for not being more clear, I was responding to the WCPN news story.

 

The point I wanted to make was that if Euclid Ave does re-emerge as a cutting edge retail destination, perhaps the Higbees location would be better suited for retail that is more inclusive, more appealing to average people.

 

With Euclid Ave and the District of Design taking flight, I was wondering that the Medical Mart may not be aptly suited for Euclid's retail environment.

 

WTF?

 

I see where you're going with it, but the May Company Building has 1.5 million square feet to appeal to the average person.

^^how about 1010?  Could be incorporated in the bruer complex as a whole...  Seriously, with the potential of CSU College town and buildings being converted, I really can't see why hostels weren't ever brought up.  In the US, the two hostels I've stayed at were Drexel University and Boston University, so it could be university based as well.  Not to mention, whoever opened one up would practically have a monopoly since Cleveland is not listed in any of the international hostel books I've seen and when you search the worldwide database, Cleveland is again no where to be found.  I bet it would have a small postive impact on tourism if we did have one downtown, especially to younger people doing a US tour. 

 

exactly. i am a long time hosteller and have stayed in many all over the usa and elsewhere. i helped reopen the columbus hostel at as well. so hostelling is always on my mind for the clev. world travelors would be very attracted to the euclid corridor transportation (of course as will everyone else we hope). a dynamic and revitalizing strip like euc seems a natural fit for a hostel.

 

if anyone is interested or connected enough, the easiest option for opening a hostel, one that can be done almost immediately, is to use a dorm on a college campus (which sounds like the ones you stayed at murray).

 

now if i won powerball - ha - i had always thought my dream hostel for cle would be the renovated coastguard station or the old eastbank flats train station (too bad an actual hostel plan for the latter building died off a while back), but a euclid avenue area hostel would certainly be more central and practical.

 

btw: not the city of course, but there is an excellent area hostel located in the cuyahoga valley in peninsula that doesnt get as much press as it deserves (and i have stayed there a couple times -- it is a stunningly beautiful hostel & setting):

 

http://www.nps.gov/archive/cuva/friends/stanford.htm

 

 

 

Good point. But at least for street level I would much rather see ground floor space leased out to normal businesses,  rather than displays for the latest technology in syringes.

 

Eloquent reply there MTS.

 

Apologize for not being more clear, I was responding to the WCPN news story.

 

The point I wanted to make was that if Euclid Ave does re-emerge as a cutting edge retail destination, perhaps the Higbees location would be better suited for retail that is more inclusive, more appealing to average people.

 

With Euclid Ave and the District of Design taking flight, I was wondering that the Medical Mart may not be aptly suited for Euclid's retail environment.

 

WTF?

 

I see where you're going with it, but the May Company Building has 1.5 million square feet to appeal to the average person.

Surf.  May Co. has more appeal as its still currently one complete structure not carved up as is the Higbee's space.

 

What exactly do YOU mean by "average" people?

 

Right now, I see nothing wrong with the empty retail space being used for alternative marketing purposes.  What else is taking place?  At least the landlord receives income and the street is more lively.

 

In regard to a hostel.  I don't see it on Euclid Ave., well no lower that 18 Street.  If it was on Prospect, E. 9/14 or 18 would make great locations.

I agree with MTS when it comes to the hostel... I'd LOVE to see a hostel downtown, but I'm not sure I'm willing to give up 1010 for it.

Not saying the Med Mart isn't good for Cleveland. I'm talking about the future vision of Public Square. WIll the retail there be an attraction that will lure most people,  or will it cater mostly to the office crowd or medical industry?

 

Just wondering what percentage of the local population is ever going to set foot in that place?

 

 

 

Surf.  May Co. has more appeal as its still currently one complete structure not carved up as is the Higbee's space.

 

What exactly do YOU mean by "average" people?

 

Right now, I see nothing wrong with the empty retail space being used for alternative marketing purposes.  What else is taking place?  At least the landlord receives income and the street is more lively.

 

In regard to a hostel.  I don't see it on Euclid Ave., well no lower that 18 Street.  If it was on Prospect, E. 9/14 or 18 would make great locations.

i don't see a hostel on euc below e18th either, but certainly there are options in the other direction. proximity to the silver line transit would be important, so prospect might be a nice fit for it too.

 

csu and case might have the space, at least in the summer -- that would be the easiest to start up quickly.

 

ah well, it's just an idea. if anyone is ever re-interested in pursuing it, here is the main organization. in the past they were very helpful w/ restarting the osu area hostel in columbus:

 

http://www.hiusa.org/

 

http://www.hihostels.com/

 

 

 

 

Not saying the Med Mart isn't good for Cleveland. I'm talking about the future vision of Public Square. WIll the retail there be an attraction that will lure most people,  or will it cater mostly to the office crowd or medical industry?

 

Just wondering what percentage of the local population is ever going to set foot in that place?

 

You're post are almost as confusing as "you know who"!

 

One minute were discussing the Euclid Avenue revival, now you're talking about PS?  :?

 

Why wouldn't people shop at stores in Downtown that don't exist anywhere else in the city or state?

 

We already know that people will shop downtown if there is "destination" shopping to found.  Using TC as an outdated model, IIRC, it was the number one mall in Ohio, upon opening, this without a downtown population to support it.  Now with more residential living in downtown proper and reinvigorated adjacent neighborhoods, shopping in downtown would be a "win win" for current residents AND a marketing factor for potential residents.

 

The caveat is that it would return downtown into a "regional attraction/destination" for NEO residents (when TC opened it hurt Beachwood AND hurt leiseur shopping in Chicago and NYC from Cleveland zip codes) as local residents will not have to travel far for items they would buy in another city.

 

Those here for, leisure travel, conventions (with planned local events), meetings (with planned local events), would be able to shop at unique businesses or business they don't have/might not have locally and enhance their experience of Cleveland.  It would be another "thing to do" since they can already see a fine play; visit a world class museum; Eat a locally raved and domestically recognized restaurant or stay at a four star hotel.

 

Reinvestment in Euclid Avenue is just another piece of the "correcting Cleveland" puzzle.

^Jeez, why you so cranky, MTS?

 

Surf, you're just saying that if Euclid/PS retail takes off, it would be better not kill a big chunk of street frontage with Medical Mart lobbies and displays that will be meaningless for everyone except for people in the industry, correct?  I guess I'm not so worried- I can only hope retail takes off enough for us to worry about that.

Not sure what it means, and i know im pretty much giving NO information into this, but i was walking from CSU down to 6th street around 1130ish and there were a group of about 8 men and women looking at the Office Resource Building at the corner of 13th and euclid. As i passed i heard one of the men say something about it having a great storefront. They all had what looked like the same papers alse. I have no idea who they were or what company they are with, but just thought someone else may know a little more information on this.

^Jeez, why you so cranky, MTS?

 

Surf, you're just saying that if Euclid/PS retail takes off, it would be better not kill a big chunk of street frontage with Medical Mart lobbies and displays that will be meaningless for everyone except for people in the industry, correct?  I guess I'm not so worried- I can only hope retail takes off enough for us to worry about that.

 

What do you mean by "lobbies".  The medical mart will be in ONE building?

Forumeres estupidos!

 

Thanks Strap, that is, very succinctly, the point I was trying to convey. 

 

 

 

^Jeez, why you so cranky, MTS?

 

Surf, you're just saying that if Euclid/PS retail takes off, it would be better not kill a big chunk of street frontage with Medical Mart lobbies and displays that will be meaningless for everyone except for people in the industry, correct?  I guess I'm not so worried- I can only hope retail takes off enough for us to worry about that.

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

 

Did I miss something over the weekend?

 

No, just CTownsFinest once again glossing things over and omitting the facts. :roll:

 

He's not happy here, but for seeing only what he wants to see. I bitch at this city a lot because I'm an urban perfectionist, but I see Cleveland doing more things right than wrong. And the learning curve is definitely on the upswing. The old saying is that it's good to get in on the start of something positive. And in this newfound era of rising gas prices and environmental consciousness, there's no better time to be involved in urban issues, redevelopment and advocacy. We need all the urban-minded, gutsy people we can muster here to continue helping the learning curve gain speed. If you want to quit and leave, then you're probably not much good to us anyway.

Does anybody have a crains subscription? There is an article about a proposed redevelopment of the old gyro place across from Cleveland-Marshall.

^I thought that was being torn down to be the through street of college town?

 

 

Crains: "A state-financed coalition aiming to turn Ohio into a hub for sensor technology aims to build its $11 million headquarters on the site of a former restaurant at Cleveland State University."

 

That's what I thought too but apparently not. Maybe this new structure will only occupy part of the site and will allow for a narrow through street.

Hey, a "new HQ" or a "street", you decide which is better?

Here's the entire link regarding sensor tech 

 

 

Sense of purpose

State coalition's efforts to establish sensor tech hub starts with CSU

 

Chuck Alexander, managing director of the Wright Center for Sensor Systems Engineering, says the coalition has plans to build its headquarters, which would include office space and a lab, at Cleveland State University.

Photo credit: MARC GOLUB 

+ PHOTO ZOOM 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By CHUCK SODER

 

4:30 am, April 28, 2008

 

 

 

A state-financed coalition aiming to turn Ohio into a hub for sensor technology aims to build its $11 million headquarters on the site of a former restaurant at Cleveland State University.

 

The deal to create the headquarters on the Euclid Avenue site has yet to be finalized, but members of the Wright Center for Sensor Systems Engineering are working under the assumption that they will build on the location, said Chuck Alexander, managing director for the coalition.

 

Cleveland State, which is leading the Wright Center coalition, plans to have Euclid Avenue Housing Corp. buy the site at 1910 Euclid Ave., which is the location of the former Best Steak and Gyros restaurant. The university-run nonprofit would own the headquarters, once built, and lease it to Cleveland State, Dr. Alexander said.

 

Besides office space for the Wright Center, the 22,000-square-foot, three-story building would house a sterile laboratory, or clean room, that institutions and companies could use to create the packaging needed to hook up sensors within products ranging from industrial machines to automobile engines.

 

It also would provide space for sensor-related companies to set up shop for months at a time while using the clean room as well as ground-floor office space for unrelated tenants.

 

Cleveland State likes the site because of its visibility, said Dr. Alexander, who also is a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the university.

 

“They wanted to promote it,” he said.

 

The university is negotiating with Heartland Developers LLC of Cleveland, which holds an option to develop the site, said Jack Boyle, vice president for business affairs and finance at Cleveland State. He was uncertain who owns the location, but the web site of the Cuyahoga County Auditor's office states it's owned by P & WF Inc. of Cleveland.

 

Should negotiations go as planned, construction could start in June and be finished in a year, Mr. Boyle said.

 

The headquarters is just one part of the Wright Center.

 

The coalition of universities and companies is putting $73 million toward the creation of six sensor systems labs and five industry-led sensor projects.

 

The group received $23 million from the Ohio Third Frontier Project and is in the process of raising the rest.

 

The other schools housing sensor labs will be Case Western Reserve University, the University of Akron, Lorain County Community College, Ohio State University and Wright State University. The three Northeast Ohio universities are renovating current space.

 

Each lab would have different specialties, which would allow companies to turn sensors into ready-for-use sensor systems without leaving the state, said Dave Hiscock, who's overseeing facilities development for the Wright Center. Right now, sensor companies typically leave the state to find the best technology to package the devices, Mr. Hiscock said.

 

“It's almost always outsourced,” he said.

 

Mr. Hiscock noted that his company, Haric LLC of Cleveland, has its sensor systems assembled in Santa Clara, Calif., but it would consider moving that work to Ohio once the chain of labs is in place.

 

 

 

Tallmadge beckons

 

One company already is starting operations in Ohio because of the Wright Center.

 

Sensiics Inc., a spinoff of a Chicago semiconductor designer, plans to open a headquarters in Tallmadge within three months because its president, Mike Ward, wanted to collaborate with the Wright Center coalition. Sensiics wants to create a line of circuit products that would convert digital signals sent by sensors into a readable analog format.

 

Sensiics' eight employees are paid by the Wright Center and the University of Akron, but Mr. Ward said he expects the company eventually to pay for a larger staff.

 

He's even teaching classes at Akron related to designing sensor interfaces to build a work force for himself and other companies, said Mr. Ward, a Sandusky native.

 

“There aren't a whole lot of people who are good at it,” he said.

 

Sensiics is one of several companies participating in five industry projects financed by the Wright Center.

 

Others include companies such as Milwaukee-based Rockwell Auto-mation, which runs a Mayfield Heights plant, and Orbital Research Inc. of Cleveland.

 

Those research projects have been under way since last summer and could demonstrate the Wright Center's abilities to other companies, said Don Majcher, center operations director.

 

“Success on the projects will lead to

 

The College Town siteplan is on this website somewhere.  It shows half of the land occupied by the Best Steak and Gyro building as being part of the sensor lab, and half as a new N-S street.

The College Town siteplan is on this website somewhere.  It shows half of the land occupied by the Best Steak and Gyro building as being part of the sensor lab, and half as a new N-S street.

 

Here you go.  Good memory X.

 

Correct. The streets will be one way.

Which way they go will be determined.

 

Larger shot -

So getting back to Euclid retail:  At a City Club event about 10 days ago (discussed here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15912.msg280183.html#new) Price, Zaremba and Wolstein all expressed near total skepticism that regional "fashion" retail would be viable downtown at any time in the foreseeable future.  All described their retail ambitions as neighborhood/service stuff.  I was actually kind of surprised how down on the possibility they were- all in response to a question from some lady who was clearly tired of schlepping out to the burbs whenever she wanted to go shopping.

^That part kind of bothered me too.  I agree that there is a need for service stuff downtown, but there needs to be balance if we're going to start drawing people away from the suburbs and back to the city.  People won't go downtown for a cup of coffee and drycleaning. 

I'm sorry, but why are trying to "attract" people from the suburbs instead of making downtown a place welcoming to people from all over teh world.

 

This thought of "lets get suburbanites" to shop downtown has got to stop.

The focus on suburbanites is because generally Downtowns function as regional centers.  And the suburbanites have the vast majority of this region's wealth.  Unless someone has an idea to make Cleveland a tourist destination on par with Las Vegas or Disneyland it is unlikely that we can stock Downtown with amenities that primarily play to people outside the region.

The focus on suburbanites is because generally Downtowns function as regional centers.  And the suburbanites have the vast majority of this region's wealth.  Unless someone has an idea to make Cleveland a tourist destination on par with Las Vegas or Disneyland it is unlikely that we can stock Downtown with amenities that primarily play to people outside the region.

 

Orlando and Las Vegas are comparing apples to oranges.  Look at what the economy is doing to those areas.  When the economy is bad, Orlando and Las Vegas take a BIG hit.

 

However, X, you did "get it" and you pass.   Instead of saying "suburbanites" we need to think of Cleveland as a REGIONAL DESTINATION for all.  I say drop the "please" and "entice" the suburbanites mentality out of the equation. 

 

Personally, as a resident of Cleveland, I find that thinking condescending and offensive that people think "only the surbanites could afford to shop at x types of establishments if and when they return to lower Euclid".  The residents who currently live throughout the city proper should aslo feel insulted.

The focus on suburbanites is because generally Downtowns function as regional centers.  And the suburbanites have the vast majority of this region's wealth.  Unless someone has an idea to make Cleveland a tourist destination on par with Las Vegas or Disneyland it is unlikely that we can stock Downtown with amenities that primarily play to people outside the region.

 

Orlando and Las Vegas are comparing apples to oranges.  Look at what the economy is doing to those areas.  When the economy is bad, Orlando and Las Vegas take a BIG hit.

 

However, X, you did "get it" and you pass.  Instead of saying "suburbanites" we need to think of Cleveland as a REGIONAL DESTINATION for all.  I say drop the "please" and "entice" the suburbanites mentality out of the equation. 

 

Personally, as a resident of Cleveland, I find that thinking condescending and offensive that people think "only the surbanites could afford to shop at x types of establishments if and when they return to lower Euclid".  The residents who currently live throughout the city proper should aslo feel insulted.

 

I agree, in fact, a lot of those stores would target young professionals living downtown, who have a lot of disposable income.

I agree, in fact, a lot of those stores would target young professionals living downtown, who have a lot of disposable income.

 

BINGO  and we have a winner!

I agree, in fact, a lot of those stores would target young professionals living downtown, who have a lot of disposable income.

 

BINGO  and we have a winner!

 

I'd love to agree with you but unfortunately there aren't enough living down here to support it.  Until we have about 20k+ in population they aren't going to bite.  And don't try to sell the chicken and the egg concept, because (forget about me) retailers simply aren't going to buy into it here.  The only shot you have for type of retail you want in the "near" non 20k resident future is something like pesht to happen wherein a developer MIGHT be able to pull something off in a large scale mixed use plan.

And don't try to sell the chicken and the egg concept, because (forget about me) retailers simply aren't going to buy into it here.  The only shot you have for type of retail you want in the "near" non 20k resident future is something like pesht to happen wherein a developer MIGHT be able to pull something off in a large scale mixed use plan.

 

I think that bypassing the chicken and egg thing is exactly what Stark means when he talks about a "big bang."  Stark's project is big enough to be self-sustaining, but it will also add amenities that make downtown more attractive as a residential neighborhood, and could help spur more development.

 

For me, the most exciting thing about Pesht, FEB, and Jacobs' project is the residential aspect and the effect they'll have on the rest of downtown.  While their own individual retail components are nice, the residents will be a big boost in getting downtown's population to the magic 20k.  Then we might be able to support better retail on Euclid, despite what will be going in these other projects.  With a large number of new, higher-end living spaces, I'm starting to think the furniture district idea might not be so bad after all.

I'd love to agree with you but unfortunately there aren't enough living down here to support it.  Until we have about 20k+ in population they aren't going to bite.  And don't try to sell the chicken and the egg concept, because (forget about me) retailers simply aren't going to buy into it here.  The only shot you have for type of retail you want in the "near" non 20k resident future is something like pesht to happen wherein a developer MIGHT be able to pull something off in a large scale mixed use plan.

 

I (as a marketing professional) find that utter BS.  Tower City was there with no residents.

 

I should have been clearer, I'm talking about after the ECP is complete and running.  I want an evaluation of how many full time residents are downtown (what ever the boundaries are they are using) minus those incarserated, we could be close to 15-17k. I'd also like to know how many are within a 2 mile radius of Public Square.  Since those that live in downtown proper (whatever boundaries you're are using) and the adjacent neighborhoods are most likely the type of folks to dine, shop, and patronize stores I would like to see downtown.  In addition, leisure tourist(regionally, statewide and out of state) would more likely (with gas as high as it is) want to spend their money locally instead of going to Chicago or New York.

 

I addition, as you say, with the new project proposed, those could be a catalyst for a return of stores that were formerly in TC to spaces on Euclid. 

 

I'd have to say developers and the city would be stupid not to be in the process of lining up tenants with the amount of building on Euclid and the money invested in the ECP.

 

Bring back retail is not only important for the residents who currently live downtown but its an incentive for potential buyers/renters.

You want an evaluation? who are you directing to do this?

 

Yes Tower City was there with "no" residents, and look how it did.

 

Also downtown population is still around 10k.

OH MTS, how I love your enthusiasm, and you have some pretty sound reasoning... I'm just telling you that the retailers won't even nibble.  They are giving a huge middle finger to anyone that approaches them about downtown right now.  Confiteordeo is right, without the "big bang" it just isn't going to happen until we reach the numbers they want.  And though there are a billion and 5 reasons for the decline of tower city... it was able to start with no resident base because the market conditions were totally different.  There was no crocker park, and the "beachwood" scene was in its infancy.  If people wanted any of the "fancy" stuff, they HAD to come downtown.  Now all the places that were "destination" retail (Banana, Williams Sanoma, the nice department stores) are all over the suburbs.  And people aren't going to go right by all of that just to come downtown to shop at the same places... And no matter who emplores them, retailers in a slumping retail market are not going to make some leap of faith on how things "might" shape out.  It is big bang, or wait until the market reaches the point at which they are comfortable... unfortunately.