"Jon Stahl's sky-high dream could start at the top of a hotel that has yet to be built."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20131103/SUB1/131109962/0/

 

Jon Stahl's sky-high dream could start at the top of a hotel that has yet to be built.

 

The top of a 30 floor building down to the Lakefront? Now that's going to be a major change in elevation.

 

That's not an aerial tram. That's a zip line!

From the article:  "But several people and organizations have voiced support for the plan, including the Port of Cleveland, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, Cleveland City Councilman Joe Cimperman and the Greater Cleveland Partnership, which through a subsidiary is serving as fiscal agent for the project."

 

And:  "People who listen to Mr. Stahl's pitch tend to get excited about it, said Fred Geis of Geis Cos. The Streetsboro-based real estate developer has an option to build an office park on city-owned land near Burke.  “I don't think I've been in one meeting where someone saw the project and said, 'I think this is a horrible idea,'” he said with a laugh."

 

Sounds like it has more legitimacy than I thought.  At first I was comparing it to the Rock-O-Meter, but maybe it has a chance in some form.

^ Nothing compares to the Rock-O-Meter

while that would be pretty awesome, it seems like it would cut way down on the ability to use the proposed trams as public transit (if it went off from the roof). great fun for convention people though.

They had a diagram at the ingenuityfest of how that would work. Early renderings of the convention center hotel he had was it would be two towers.  The gondola station would be at the 5th or 6th floor between the 2 towers it looked.

I think this conversation belongs in the Skylift thread (yes, we have one!).

Joe Nickol ‏@J_Nickol 2h

Convention ctr hotels don't have same spinoff effect as dispersed hotels. The latter gets ppl on streets.  http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2013/11/06/Convention-center-hotel-idea-fading/stories/201311060084 …

^But apparently the convention center hotel gets the convention in the first place.  Interesting, given what Cleveland is doing (basically the county is building its own hotel) to see how hard Pittsburgh had been trying to attract a convention center hotel with no luck despite dangling millions in subsidies.

^^Interesting (the underlying article, not the tweet).  Will be fun to see whether PIT's booking suffers in comparison to CLE's or if our expensive obsession with having a connected convention hotel was dumb and wasteful.  Hardly a scientific experiment but the best we can do.

^And an attached Medical Mart... or whatever it's called now.

^For the hundrenth time...there would not be a convention center without the med mart (or what ever it is called).  So if you wanted a new convention center (which most people did) then to those people it does not matter if the med mart is "dumb and wasteful".  No med mart, no cover for the county commissioners, no tax, another 25 years of committees and meetings with people trying to come up with some way to fund the convention center.

^But apparently the convention center hotel gets the convention in the first place.  Interesting, given what Cleveland is doing (basically the county is building its own hotel) to see how hard Pittsburgh had been trying to attract a convention center hotel with no luck despite dangling millions in subsidies.

 

I thought Pittsburgh considered the Westin to be it's Convention Center hotel?  I'm not sure if it's attached, but it's directly across the street.  Attaching it wouldn't take much.  And it has to be 500+ rooms?

^For the hundrenth time...there would not be a convention center without the med mart (or what ever it is called).  So if you wanted a new convention center (which most people did) then to those people it does not matter if the med mart is "dumb and wasteful".  No med mart, no cover for the county commissioners, no tax, another 25 years of committees and meetings with people trying to come up with some way to fund the convention center.

 

I think you're clearly right, but the idiocy or political cowardice of the prior county officials doesn't really foreclose the possibility that the med mart was a needless waste of money, so not sure that was really responsive to Oldman's dig. 

 

Anyway some news!

 

Proposed design of Cleveland convention hotel will be unveiled next week, as project details emerge

 

The hotel, envisioned as a Hilton, will house 600 rooms in a 27-story tower, above a four-story podium. The public areas will include a restaurant, a lobby bar and lounge, retail space and, possibly, a green roof on the lower-slung part of the building and some sort of public space atop the hotel.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/11/proposed_design_of_cleveland_c.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

I think the best view of this building in the skyline will obviously be from the lake, and Browns stadium.  COming North on 71, or across the Lorain Carnegie Bridge, you should also be able to see it popping up behind 55 PS.  That is of course it stands to be a 31 story building.  The 4 story podium should account for the lower ceiling heights of the hotel.

Key thing for me is underground parking, no need for another ugly garage!

^For the hundrenth time...there would not be a convention center without the med mart (or what ever it is called).  So if you wanted a new convention center (which most people did) then to those people it does not matter if the med mart is "dumb and wasteful".  No med mart, no cover for the county commissioners, no tax, another 25 years of committees and meetings with people trying to come up with some way to fund the convention center.

 

I think we agree with each other- I was commenting on the name change of the MM.  I think we'll have a greater draw for conventions (at the very least medical conventions) versus Pittsburgh's convention center, or any other center in the Midwest (leaving out Chicago) without any type of Mart attached. 

 

I'm excited to see the design of the building.  The best place to see it in the skyline will definitely be from Lakeside, though interesting angles may come from St. Clair and Public Square.  From the east shoreway, it will be covered by the Federal Building- even if some distinct crown is added to it, adding to it's total height.  It'll probably stick out more coming from the west shoreway towards downtown.     

It'll probably stick out more coming from the west shoreway towards downtown.     

 

And that's all that matters! ;)

 

EDIT: actually, I think the Justice Center will block out much of the view, unfortunately.

So apparently the 27 floor hotel has won out over the 16 floor model.  Can't wait to see renderings.

Key thing for me is underground parking, no need for another ugly garage!

 

Fingers crossed that the engineering studies show that it's doable.

So apparently the 27 floor hotel has won out over the 16 floor model.  Can't wait to see renderings.

 

Probably because the L-shape (as viewed from directly overhead) was not favored. And let's give it credit for cracking the 30-story mark. It will be 31 stories. :)

Yup and 370'...not too shabby. 

Fwiw, Michelle threw out 370' as the height in the comments section, which is right around what people were guessing a few pages back.  Good job, guys ;-)

 

EDIT- whoops, Clefan98 beat me to it!

So apparently the 27 floor hotel has won out over the 16 floor model.  Can't wait to see renderings.

 

Probably because the L-shape (as viewed from directly overhead) was not favored. And let's give it credit for cracking the 30-story mark. It will be 31 stories. :)

 

I wonder if it's actually 30 or 32 stories tall because buildings don't usually have a 13th floor? Or is it actually 31.

How tall is the new Ernst and Yound Tower jsut for comparison sake?  Isn't that like 300'.

I wonder if it's actually 30 or 32 stories tall because buildings don't usually have a 13th floor? Or is it actually 31.

:drunk:

I'd assume it's actually 31 stories since they specifically said it is 27 stories above a 4 story podium. How they label these floors may be different (as is the case in a ridiculous amount of buildings around the world). Also, most buildings do actually have a 13th floor. Especially modern buildings. But a lot of times it'll not be listed as it ends up being used for some other function such as being a mechanical floor as to not deal with the superstitious. And as such it doesn't appear on elevators visible to the general public.

Nice work!  Would still love to see 10 stories of luxury condos on top! :)

FWIW, Wikipedia says the Ernst & Young Tower is 330 feet tall. So the convention hotel looks like it will be about 40 feet taller (and may appear even taller on the skyline since it is on slightly higher ground).

 

EDIT: GoogleEarth says the elevation of the land on which the Ernst & Young Tower sets is about 600 feet. The elevation of the site of Convention Center Hotel is about 640 feet.

 

So the hotel would have the appearance of being some 80 feet taller than the Ernst & Young Tower.

So it will be 5 feet taller than the Ohio Bell/AT&T tower and 20 feet shorter than the Ameritrust tower. So it will have a nice impact on the skyline.

 

http://www.emporis.com/building/ohiobellhuronbuilding-cleveland-oh-usa

It will indeed make an impact on the skyline from the east shoreway.  Once you get to 55th, you are approaching downtown from somewhat of an angle from the NE...... it will fit in the view right between the Federal bldg and the Justice Ctr

FWIW, Wikipedia says the Ernst & Young Tower is 330 feet tall. So the convention hotel looks like it will be about 40 feet taller (and may appear even taller on the skyline since it is on slightly higher ground).

 

EDIT: GoogleEarth says the elevation of the land on which the Ernst & Young Tower sets is about 600 feet. The elevation of the site of Convention Center Hotel is about 640 feet.

 

So the hotel would have the appearance of being some 80 feet taller than the Ernst & Young Tower.

So it will have the look of a 410 foot tower, but really be 370 feet?

^No, the other way around: E&Y Tower is built on a low-lying site (partway down the river valley) so from a distance it looks shorter than 330 ft.

^No, the other way around: E&Y Tower is built on a low-lying site (partway down the river valley) so from a distance it looks shorter than 330 ft.

I was speaking about the convention center hotel.

^The convention center hotel will be about 370 feet tall.  The elevation of the building site is more or less at the same grade as most of downtown, so relative to most of downtown, it will look 370 feet tall.  The E&Y Tower is 330 feet tall, but its building site is at a slightly lower elevation (per KJP, about 40 feet lower).  Ergo, even though the E&Y Tower is only 40 feet shorter than the planned convention center hotel, because of the difference in site elevation, the top of the E&Y Tower will actually be about 80 feet lower than the top of the convention center hotel. 

It'll be 50 feet shorter than the Justice Center, which is right across the street.

It would be just behind the science center's wind turbine in this view (by MayDay!), to the left of the Justice Center.

 

That's a great picture. Look at that sexy lady, all sultry in the twilight. That's right baby, I'm gonna put a new building, right inside of you.

Qeue Barry White!

 

But seriously, the Justice Center is sexy? :)

Sizzlinbeef has a good massing rendering on the top of page 7 http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28381.210.html

This will have a nice impact on the skyline.  If it is 370 feet, then it would be the 12th tallest building in the city.

 

The Cincinnati Hilton is 372 feet according to Wikipedia and is the tallest hotel in the state.  So, we need our hotel to grow a few more feet!

Not to get off topic, but a SkyLift station could do just that :)

Here is an anatomically correct view of how large a 370-foot-tall convention center hotel will look in the skyline (thanks to MayDay's original picture). I used the adjacent Justice Center (420 feet), divided in two six parts (70 feet each) and used five of them to measure the approximate height of the convention center hotel (that got me to 350 feet). Then I adjusted it slightly higher to account for the other 20 feet. Then I used the 1983-built Ohio Bell/Ameritech building on East 9th to come up with a curvaceous style (as was recently reported) for the hotel. Compare with the unaltered photo I posted earlier.....

 

Not to get off topic, but a SkyLift station could do just that :)

 

I would sincerely doubt the skylift station would be at the very top of the hotel.  Likely it will be part of the 4 story podium (if it is built at all).  It would be more cost effective as the support towers do not need to be as tall.  Also with Burke there may be limits on the height of these towers anyway.

But seriously, the Justice Center is sexy? :)

 

I like my buildings like I like my Volvos. Boxy, but good.

^But apparently the convention center hotel gets the convention in the first place.  Interesting, given what Cleveland is doing (basically the county is building its own hotel) to see how hard Pittsburgh had been trying to attract a convention center hotel with no luck despite dangling millions in subsidies.

 

I thought Pittsburgh considered the Westin to be it's Convention Center hotel?  I'm not sure if it's attached, but it's directly across the street.  Attaching it wouldn't take much.  And it has to be 500+ rooms?

 

The Pittsburgh Westin is their convention center hotel, has more than 500 rooms and is attached to the convention center by skywalk.  Pittsburgh has been trying to get a developer to expand that hotel with a second tower, although I'm not sure where given how built out that area is.

Well tomorrow is THE day for the hotel design to be presented before county council. Isn't it usually a morning meeting? Can't wait to see the renderings. In the beginning I was hoping for something iconic, I have lowered my expectations somewhat.  And although I believe the design firm understands how important this is to us and what a great opportunity it is for their firm I try to remind myself this is a hotel and hotels usually because of budget and design constraints are for the most part pretty bland. I think it will be nice and look different than anything we currently have. I am happy for the height though, I sure hope that holds true. Then again the only thing we can be sure about is that w28th is gonna hate it...lol

Well tomorrow is THE day for the hotel design to be presented before county council. Isn't it usually a morning meeting? Can't wait to see the renderings. In the beginning I was hoping for something iconic, I have lowered my expectations somewhat.  And although I believe the design firm understands how important this is to us and what a great opportunity it is for their firm I try to remind myself this is a hotel and hotels usually because of budget and design constraints are for the most part pretty bland. I think it will be nice and look different than anything we currently have. I am happy for the height though, I sure hope that holds true. Then again the only thing we can be sure about is that w28th is gonna hate it...lol

 

I hope you're not disappointed. The renderings I have seen make me really excited.

^Believe me I won't be. And I take your word for it.

Steven Litt just posted these, and a lot more, on Cleveland.com

Not great, but not horrible either. I guess I'm okay with it.