^ I dont think that was built in coordination with Hilton.  I believe it was a condo/vacation renal tower that Hilton took over after the economy tanked.  I actually stayed there and it was pretty nice, but def did not feel like a hotel. 

 

^^^ Keith is right, and actually also in Vegas may be the most famous of them, the Aria I believe focuses directly on their pool and was actually giving some people second degree burns or something.

input wanted for design of new convention center hotel

Thursday, November 14, 2013

 

County residents are being asked to share their opinions as they pertain to the new Convention Center Hotel. The 650-room hotel will replace the Cuyahoga County Administrative building at Lakeside Avenue and Ontario Street and serve as the main hotel for the nearby medical mart and convention center.

 

Representatives from the architecture firm Cooper Carry will be in town on Wednesday, November 20th, from 5:30 to 7:00 p.m. to share preliminary designs for the new Convention Center Hotel and solicit input from local residents.

 

The hotel is on a fast track, with County Executive Ed FitzGerald stating a goal of a 2016 opening.

 

The meeting is free and open to the public.

 

Cleveland Public Library

Louis Stokes Wing Auditorium

325 Superior Avenue East

 

Questions and registration (not required): [email protected]

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/inthenews/coopercarry111413.aspx

I wish I could go.  What I would suggest to the architects is to draw inspiration from the Cleveland that never was.  All of the major projects that were planned and never came to be, such as the Progressive Tower at the edge of the malls, the Ameritrust building on Public Square, the Rock-O-Meter, or even whatever Daniel Burnham originally proposed for the site. 

 

Probably just us urban ohio nerds would like it, but anything is better than plain and boring

My concern is the hotel's ability to interact with the mall.  From the birds-eye view layout up thread, it looks like a street or driveway will be separating the hotel from the mall.  That could make it very unlikely that people would wander from the hotel to explore the mall.  Perhaps there's a way to bring that gap?

^it is not a freeway...it is a two lane street...in my experience people actually do cross streets to get to other places.

I can understand them placing the tower on the mall-side, IMHO, it would work if the base on the mall-side reflected the mall-architecture more.  I feel they could do that in a way that both complements the other buildings and the tower, while still allowing the tower to front the mall.

Alright folks, activity and programming at the Mall might eventually be affected or enhanced by the convention center hotel but we're getting off-topic. If someone wants to create a 'Cleveland - Parks/Public Spaces Programming' thread in City Discussions and continue with the discussion, I wouldn't be opposed :-)

Alright folks, activity and programming at the Mall might eventually be affected or enhanced by the convention center hotel but we're getting off-topic. If someone wants to create a 'Cleveland - Parks/Public Spaces Programming' thread in City Discussions and continue with the discussion, I wouldn't be opposed :-)

 

We've already got one -- which I've revived so we can keep this thread focused on the hotel project....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22937.0.html

 

I posted these over on the skyscraperpage.com forum - just some very rough ideas of how the hotel will show up in the skyline:

 

 

Ahh. Didn't know it wouldn't shorter than justice center. Bummer

Ahh. Didn't know it wouldn't shorter than justice center. Bummer

 

I feel so ignored.....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28381.msg682043.html#msg682043

Noted!

MayDay, that first photo is great.  Always like when the Terminal Tower is perpendicular from a shot.

I posted these over on the skyscraperpage.com forum - just some very rough ideas of how the hotel will show up in the skyline:

 

 

One major gap down two more to go, then our skyline will be pleasing to look at (minus the justice center)

Ahh. Didn't know it wouldn't shorter than justice center. Bummer

 

I feel so ignored.....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28381.msg682043.html#msg682043

 

No hard feelings meant! :-) I think your rendering is accurate on the height but positioning-wise, it might need moved a little to the left. I think I can see the former 113 St. Clair Building (where the GCHIwhatever is) and the hotel would obscure that.

Not to go "crazy off topic" (but  I guess I am :wink:) but you can see from May Day's first photo how even a 20 story building (about the size of 55 Public Square) on the Public Square parking lot would change the skyline (at least from the west).  And could you imagine the Ameritrust Tower there from that angle?  Oh well.

 

Twenty years as a parking lot on the Square is just too long.  Unfortunately, I imagine it will stay that way for a good long time.

 

No hard feelings meant! :-) I think your rendering is accurate on the height but positioning-wise, it might need moved a little to the left. I think I can see the former 113 St. Clair Building (where the GCHIwhatever is) and the hotel would obscure that.

 

In a couple of years from now, during a trip on the Goodtime III (or IV?), we'll see who's right. :)

I really like how this impacts the skyline.  It fills in a big gap.

 

Now, as mentioned above, if we can only have that skyscraper on the Public Square parking lot.  Judging by how fast the Flats East building filled up, there seems to be demand for new office space. We just have to find a major tenant to get it started.  Anyone know any CEO's (Eaton blew our best chance)??? 

I wish I could go.  What I would suggest to the architects is to draw inspiration from the Cleveland that never was.  All of the major projects that were planned and never came to be, such as the Progressive Tower at the edge of the malls, the Ameritrust building on Public Square, the Rock-O-Meter, or even whatever Daniel Burnham originally proposed for the site. 

 

Probably just us urban ohio nerds would like it, but anything is better than plain and boring

 

good thoughts - email it to them!

 

i emailed them, but i'm afraid mine was more mundane and practical. i asked for a toplevel lounge, a few floors of apts and longterm stay apts, and a more streetfriendly street level than what i see on the renders.

 

fyi - here's the email reply i got today -- she answered one question, not sure how accurate tho:

 

 

Thank you for your comments, I will make sure they get catalogued with others from the public meeting and shared with the architects.  To answer your question, I believe the hotel is planned to be 27 stories tall. I think the justice center is 26 stories. 

 

 

Megan E. Jones

Marketing + Communications Director

P 216 621 5413 x120 | W LAND-studio.org

 

^The Justice Center is not 26 stories (the court tower has 23 floors).  And comparing floors is not an accurate gage of height anyway since, as mentioned a couple of times above, a hotel floor is usually shorter than an office building floor and it is even more pronounced when it comes to the Justice Center since the court room floors are even larger than a regular office building.  So even though the Justice Center has less floors it will still be taller than the hotel.

yeah, its pretty clear she was just wingin it at this point.

 

however, i dont think we really know exactly how tall this will be yet.

Facts from tonight's meeting:

 

-It will be 374 feet.

 

-I asked about residential, the spokesman from Cooper said they weren't asked by Hilton to look into it, and Hilton doesn't operate residential so it was never on their radar.  If they had been asked, they would've, though he mentioned it hasn't been as common on large hotels since 2008, and Cleveland may not be the market for it. :/

 

-Lots of people still said rooftop bar, to which they said... (in much nicer and more eloquent phrases): Not happening, we have no money for something like that.

 

-Lots of people said the mall-side needed to be more in tune with the Group Plan, although they gave a great explanation as to what that whole "Living room of the City" thing is, and I have to admit, the amount of light and openness caused by that open glass space looks like it'll make a beautiful interior on the northern portion of the mall (which is all public areas).

 

-They will be raising the "no man's land in between the hotel and convention center to make it more walkable and less dreary.

 

-Parking situation is being decided tomorrow, although whether the lower level parking would be included or not was not said... just that as of tomorrow they will have decided.

 

-They will take everyone's comments and come back with a final design meeting in January.  Also, they said they're hoping to use the bridges and other industrial architectural motifs in Cleveland as inspiration for the interiors, but want to do it in a way that also feels modern and works with the exterior.

 

-Lastly, because we all care so much, they will be using a material found in other Group Plan buildings for the base (lower 90 feet), something along the lines of sandstone, marble, granite... not concrete.

 

-Lots of other stuff that is escaping me, it was a very informative meeting, with a ton of new pictures that Steve Litt will probably post before I have a chance to upload them from my terrible broken iPhone 4... but if he doesn't tomorrow, I'll upload some tomorrow night (I also saw him taking very thorough notes, so his article will be a lot more enlightening than mine!)

 

In terms of timeline, the County building is already vacant and furniture has been sold.  Demolition will start in December I believe they said, excavation could start by February.

 

Wow, thanks for the great recap!

 

-Lastly, because we all care so much, they will be using a material found in other Group Plan buildings for the base (lower 90 feet), something along the lines of sandstone, marble, granite... not concrete.

 

This is actually really great news.  I was genuinely worried about what the exterior of the base is going to be clad in.  Definitely looking forward to seeing the pictures!

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2013/11/convention_center_hotel_design.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2013/11/convention_center_hotel_design.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

 

I gotta say I'm really won over by the latest renderings.

 

I'd still like to see something additional on the roof to balance out the bold curvature. Something like this:

 

 

excellent recap and news!

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2013/11/convention_center_hotel_design.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

Much better, for some reason even though it keeps the basic same shape it seems much more graceful. The base also does a good job of looking modern but still have some classic touch. I truly enjoyed the picture that showed how it would look stacked against other buildings downtown.

I like the building a lot.

 

Thanks for the great summary.

 

-It will be 374 feet.

 

That makes it about 50 feet shorter than the Justice Center. I thought it was supposed to be taller than it.

 

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

The building is nice, with tower part being 26 stories (for a total bldg of 30). But this would be a far classier design and image if the tower was another 50% taller, so the glass part was 39-40 stories. THAT would make a real impact. overall, this building will get drowned out by others unless you're standing right next to it. From the west/southwest, it will be obscured by the justice center.

 

 

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

Why is that barometer useful? If its the 2d tallest in the state, yet 50th tallest (for example) in CLE, it doesn't do much for CLE. If it were the 50th tallest bldg in CLE, yet the tallest in the state, then that may be more interesting. But by saying that Toledo or Akron or Cincy or where ever has a taller hotel than does CLE, it doesn't reflect well on the city at all. You could also probably say, 'its the second tallest hotel in Ohio-Alabama-Kentucky-and Mississippi combined' and it wouldn't sound very good. Cleveland's a big city (though not by population) and it must use appropriate metrics.

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

Why is that barometer useful? If its the 2d tallest in the state, yet 50th tallest (for example) in CLE, it doesn't do much for CLE. If it were the 50th tallest bldg in CLE, yet the tallest in the state, then that may be more interesting. But by saying that Toledo or Akron or Cincy or where ever has a taller hotel than does CLE, it doesn't reflect well on the city at all. You could also probably say, 'its the second tallest hotel in Ohio-Alabama-Kentucky-and Mississippi combined' and it wouldn't sound very good. Cleveland's a big city (though not by population) and it must use appropriate metrics.

Dude it's a yes or no question your looking waaaay too much into it, I was just curious.

The top of the building reminds me a little of the Jawa sandcrawler....

 

 

 

^they should paint that 'interior' section dark red.

Dude it's a yes or no question your looking waaaay too much into it' date=' I was just curious.[/quote']

 

Answer: I have no idea. But my point was, it doesn't matter---its not a claim that makes Cleveland sound good; nor is it a useful statistic.

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

I'm confused … I thought the tallest in Ohio was the Hilton in Cincy at 372 feet. The PD article says this will be 374 feet, so wouldn't this be the new tallest?

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

I'm confused … I thought the tallest in Ohio was the Hilton in Cincy at 372 feet. The PD article says this will be 374 feet, so wouldn't this be the new tallest?

I wasn't sure what the tallest was that was the information I was looking for, thank you.

 

The top of the building reminds me a little of the Jawa sandcrawler....

 

 

 

 

YES. now that inspiration is much better than evoking the slope of the mall... !!

Dude it's a yes or no question your looking waaaay too much into it' date=' I was just curious.[/quote']

 

Answer: I have no idea. But my point was, it doesn't matter---its not a claim that makes Cleveland sound good; nor is it a useful statistic.

Well now Cleveland does sound good because it will be the tallest hotel in Ohio, beating the Hilton in Cincinnati by 2 feet.

^Now I'll be able to sleep better tonight.

 

Really like it.

I don't think anyone is trotting around saying "we've got the tallest hotel in the state" to emote pride in their City.  If it is the tallest in the state, great. But if not, who cares?

I don't think anyone is trotting around saying "we've got the tallest hotel in the state" to emote pride in their City.  If it is the tallest in the state, great. But if not, who cares?

I truly asked the question out of curiosity, maybe people think that since we have the 3 tallest office buildings in the state we should have the tallest hotel, and residential tower etc.

I'm psyched that the second floor plan contemplates a restaurant opening towards the mall with outdoor seating, and maybe there's a way to hand over some of the green space between the hotel parcel and the roadway to be used by the restaurant as well for the time being.  Because of the grade change, though, this corner has the potential to be very awkward and definitely needs some creative design. The current stair placement and niche on the first floor level carved into in the incline is not a super elegant solution.

 

ALSO: I'd love to see a shadow analysis of the new hotel.  It's unavoidable, but this thing is going to cast a lot of shade on northern end of Mall B and much of Mall C on fall/winter afternoons. Putting the tower on the western edge of the lot would help mitigate it some.

^ i see what you mean -- make sure to email that to them. they seem to want suggestions.

 

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

Why is that barometer useful? If its the 2d tallest in the state, yet 50th tallest (for example) in CLE, it doesn't do much for CLE. If it were the 50th tallest bldg in CLE, yet the tallest in the state, then that may be more interesting. But by saying that Toledo or Akron or Cincy or where ever has a taller hotel than does CLE, it doesn't reflect well on the city at all. You could also probably say, 'its the second tallest hotel in Ohio-Alabama-Kentucky-and Mississippi combined' and it wouldn't sound very good. Cleveland's a big city (though not by population) and it must use appropriate metrics.

Dude it's a yes or no question your looking waaaay too much into it, I was just curious.

 

Dude, it's called Google. It's very easy.

After looking at the new Cleveland Hilton renderings and comparing them to the new Downtown Columbus Hilton, it seems that the Cleveland project clearly set a much higher architectural standard. What are your thoughts?

Isn't going to be the 2nd tallest hotel in Ohio?

 

Why is that barometer useful? If its the 2d tallest in the state, yet 50th tallest (for example) in CLE, it doesn't do much for CLE. If it were the 50th tallest bldg in CLE, yet the tallest in the state, then that may be more interesting. But by saying that Toledo or Akron or Cincy or where ever has a taller hotel than does CLE, it doesn't reflect well on the city at all. You could also probably say, 'its the second tallest hotel in Ohio-Alabama-Kentucky-and Mississippi combined' and it wouldn't sound very good. Cleveland's a big city (though not by population) and it must use appropriate metrics.

Dude it's a yes or no question your looking waaaay too much into it, I was just curious.

 

Dude, it's called Google. It's very easy.

Dude, I got the answer already. Look up thread before you respond it's very easy.

^^no question about it but with the Cleveland hotel being on the mall, it is in a more prominent location, so it better be.