Below, the Sunday PD has an article that's been on my mind.  Some of us Clevelanders (I've been guilty, too) have a kind of smug attitude toward Detroit:  we've got a better downtown and city hoods w/ more life, housing and development, better public transit, culture, arts (generally, save their Art Institute, which has more holdings than our fine Art museum -- but even there, they have NOTHING compared to our University Circle), big time hospitals, nothing close to a U like Case Western Res., etc... Yeah, we feel that way, but Detroit seems to get more positive national spotlight than us while, of course, they get more of the negative.  Detroit wins championships and hosts Super Bowls (and soon NCAA championships) -- because they were smart enough to build a domed stadium, while we talk this "tradition" crap and foolishly dump $350 for a dated open-air, football only building (on prime lakefront RE, to boot!) while the smarter cities: Detroit, St. Louis, Indy, realize they are cold weather cities which need multi-purpose buildings rather than an single-use bowl.  Sure, Chicago did what we did viz Soldier Field ... BUT THEY'RE CHICAGO, and we're not. 

 

Unlike Detroit we don’t host Super Bowls and we, obviously, don’t win championships.  Also, for all it’s troubles, Detroit seems to have more of an urban identity than we do.  They’re Motown (music and cars), tough and hard-nosed.  They’ve actually taken the crime thing and made it a perverse pride symbol.  Sick as that may seem, what does one think about when they say: Cleveland?

 

In the below PD article, as usual we have the Cleveland double-talk (from HOK and uber-atty Fred Nance, the hero who saved DFAS, btw) explaining why we didn't,  why we can't ... have a domed stadium.  Typical Cleveland. 

 

For the record, I don't buy the (PD article) stuff about Detroit having the hotels support an S. Bowl while we don't.  In particularly, I don't think Detroit has a significant amount of downtown hotel rooms (if any) over us, allowing the S. Bowl to them and negating it, for us.  They’ve got one big downtown hotel, the Marriott Renaissance Center, and a few small ones; my guess is if you add up all of ours downtown, we win --- have you been to downtown Detroit lately?  I have…  Yes, we know they still have the big automakers and, hence, are more relevant nationally (and more visited, business-wise; meaning they actually have a REAL international airport vs. our Podunk, desolate Hopkins – plus concomitant airport area hotels) than us... but I sense it's more than that. 

 

So as we're about to close a week's worth of positive national publicity (and big bucks) focused on our troubled neighbors to the North, are you feeling, like me, that once again we're the loser, also-rans who, as usual, think that we're a lot better than the rest of the world thinks we are?

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1139132131133720.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

 

Big deal.  If you want to define your city based on whether or not you can host a Super Bowl, then there are bigger problems afoot.  Look at other cities that have hosted the Super Bowl--some multiple times--New Orleans, Miami, Jacksonville, Houston, Pasadena, Pontiac, Atlanta, Minneapolis, San Diego, Los Angeles.  Has the Super Bowl made or not made any of these places?  The crapholes have remained crapholes, and the "good" cities have remained "good" cities.

 

Do you see Chicagoans boo-hooing over Detroit hosting a Super Bowl?  Cut it out with the inferiority complex already--there are more important ingredients to a city than hosting one big-time sporting event.  Hell, would you want Cleveland to have Detroit's current $300 million budget deficit too?  What about all the abandoned buildings, horrific transportation system, and extreme racial segregation?

 

After this weekend, Detroit *will* go back to being largely forgotten, just as Jacksonville and Houston have the past two years.

No.  I don't see why we should worry about what Detroit gets in terms of publicity.  It doesn't effect us.

 

Also, Football is an outdoor sport, and meant to be played in the elements.  Those who can't take it should cowboy-up.  I don't care if a bunch of pampered millionaires don't come to town.  It'd be nice to have their money, but the Superbowl only happens once a year, and even with a dome, we'd be unlikely to get it more than once. 

 

You may not agree, but that doesn't make the rest of us stupid.

 

PS- Browns stadium was designed to accomodate MLS.  They have since gotten pushy and now demand their own stadiums.

Just remember--not all the publicity Detroit is getting is good, either. 

 

This is one of the things that still cheeses me off about Cleveland--a general "can't-do" attitude.  Where's the blue-collar toughness that everyone in NEO is so proud to claim?  Instead of worrying about what's happening in Detroit this weekend, I think Clevelanders need to worry about making their town a better place to live.  Too much energy is expended worrying about how Cleveland compares to other cities.  I say, just do the hard work to improve Cleveland, and the image will take care of itself.

I hate domes, but they can bring you a lot of business.  St. Louis had a novel idea (dome/convention center combination) that has pulled in many sports championships into the city.  Mike White did look into the dome/convention center, but we had to make a rushed decision to get stadium built by 1999.  I would be more than happy to have a retractable dome/renovated convention center at the current location.  If the convention center bridged the tracks and connectd to the stadium, it could work very well.

 

Overall, I agree with the previous comments that this whole Superbowl thing is a non-issue.  Why has the PD made such a big deal about it?

WHO F*CKIN' CARES?   :?  Its Detroit's game...but we can still enjoy it Cleveland STYLE. 

 

The metro area needs NOT worry about this one time event in Detroit. 

 

As a PR/Marketing person.  Not many people in the business are thrilled about this superbowl.  Most in the business I know, say they will go to the came...then leave.  Where as we have things around town to keep people in.  In addition with our improved economy and business publications and forecasters "raving" (OK I'm embellishing) about NEO, we don't need a "one time event" like this to sustain us.  Granted, having a large scale event like this in Cleveland would be a great event.  But Detroit's superbowl is a "put all your eggs in one bucket - one pony trick"!  People will still think its a crappy area.

 

We need to continue to remake Cleveland a city that Clevelander love and place that those who visit, those interested in investing and those who are currently invested in the city will do well and continue to add to the local economy on various levels!

I can't disagree with the comments, here.  But I still think building Browns stadium where it is, in addition to not being domed, was stupid.

uhmm inferiority complex much???  I could never be jealous of a city that prides itself on crime, its main industry is the car, and is so sprawled out that Toledo is in its metro...  not that i really have an issue with Detroit, it has a lot of potential

 

cmon the super bowl thing for Detroit is really one of those "silver bullet" things that dont pan out.

 

i have numerous friends from detroit and all of them say cleveland is farrrr more along in it's renaissance. 

 

and as far as national symbols and attention im sure Detroit would kill for something like a Drew Carey Show, a rock hall, or the clinic, etc that cleveland has. 

uhmm inferiority complex much???  I could never be jealous of a city that prides itself on crime, its main industry is the car, and is so sprawled out that Toledo is in its metro...  not that i really have an issue with Detroit, it has a lot of potential

 

cmon the super bowl thing for Detroit is really one of those "silver bullet" things that dont pan out.

 

i have numerous friends from detroit and all of them say cleveland is farrrr more along in it's renaissance. 

 

and as far as national symbols and attention im sure Detroit would kill for something like a Drew Carey Show, a rock hall, or the clinic, etc that cleveland has. 

 

Renaissance?  How so?  It's great we're cleaning up city neighborhoods; putting in housing, etc.  But what about corporations and jobs?  Detroit still has the big 3; maybe not all downtown; maybe with a lot of jobs overseas, but still HQ'd in the Det metro area.  What about Cleveland?  Which big city lost more corp HQ's and jobs in the last 20 years?  ... hint, that would be a certain city in N.E. Ohio.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather live here than Motown.  But as much as people like DaninDC can poo-poo such things as Super Bowls as superficial -- and, to a degree, I don't disagree -- I just get the sense that Cleveland is, well, invisible.  Detroit may be getting a lot of the negative pub Dan talks about, but to a degree, you might want to iterate the old line: 'good or bad ...  just spell my name right.'

 

I was just in Detroit last week, and whole swaths have been brought to life in and around downtown in prep for this one stupid game.  Silly as it may seem, we live in a superficial society.  If there's not a buzz about your town, you're forgotten.  And in my travels, I just hear no buzz about Cleveland -- other than an old tired river on fire joke (from a moron, no doubt).  And NOBODY on this board can doubt our PR/chamber of commerce folks (the Growth Ass'n'?) does a piss poor job in promoting the assets of this area ...

 

... and they are considerable.  It's funny that after Peter B. gave a $150B to alma mater Princeton while slamming Cleveland, essentially saying this town (esp U.Circle) is not getting his serious money cause "leaders" don't have their collective act together, I didn't hear a lot of comment about that here or elsewhere in town.  Being happy with one's hometown is one thing (and I stick up for and promote this town everywhere I go), but recognizing inertia is quite another.

This is such a non-issue, I can't even begin to validate it with a comment about the value of hosting a Super Bowl. And shame on the PD for instigating a meaningless discussion that has nothing to do with issues that, when adequately addressed, will actually make Cleveland a better place.

Well, I'm glad that we didn't spend an additional $100 million for a domed stadium.  I distinctly remember reading a forum (I don't believe I took part in it) that was talking about PBL's comments on Cleveland.  I thought it was more like 105-110 million not 150 and especially not 150 Billion, hehe if only.  As far as our publicity...  People I meet seem either indifferent to ever so favorable impression of Cleveland, although most of them are twenty somethings so the whole burning river thing isn't ingrained in their heads.  If there's something that people laugh about Cleveland it's the Browns win/loss record.

Renaissance?  How so?

 

Cleveland's Renaissance has been in perpetual motion since the early 90s. From an outsider looking in, the Cleveland I first saw in 1995 has evolved incredibly into the Cleveland of today that, in my opinion, has not lost its momentum. The corporate relocation many times cannot be helped, especiall due to M&A's. While that is a valid concern, I would be more troubled if Cleveland wasn't forging new paths of economic growth, like they are with research and biotechnology.

 

As far as the Super Bowl and Cleveland are concerned, I think it's a two-sided coin. Cleveland needs to think BIG, otherwise it's vulnerable to be overshadowed by other cities in the region, and the Super Bowl is an example. While at the same time, does Cleveland want to spend all the necessary money to "think BIG" when it means a momentary shot in time where it is the attention of the entire nation when those funds can be used for more long-term solutions for a better Cleveland? My personal opinion is that Cleveland really doesn't need the Super Bowl, but it does need to make itself more attractive and diversified in order to stand out in this nation. There are several ways to do this, figuring out the best one for Cleveland should be the goal.

I too disagree with the comments that those outside of Cleveland still don't think much of it.  For my springbreak last year, me and my two best friends from college--one from Portland, the other Rhode Island--spent three days in Cleveland and three days in Chicago (I know, the most ludicrous destinations for an early March vacation).  Neither had ever been to Cleveland and Chicago, and I was absolutely floored when they said they were really surprised with Cleveland and actually enjoyed their time more here than in Chicago!   :-D  We had a great time at the Art Museum, Rock Hall, and Film Fest, and one of my friends--an architecture student--didn't stop grinning for about a day after I took him to the Peter B. Lewis building.  We CAN compete with those who have never heard of those absurd burning river jokes, and fortunately the number of such people are growing by the day.

 

I also couldn't help but smile on Friday, while reading a column in the Washington Post's Sports section by Michael Wilbon.  Titled, "For Detroit, Sunday Brings Much More Than a Game,"  he discusses much of the same underlying issues we've been debating here.  But a paragraph towards the end proved how we're really viewed in the eyes of such elitist left-coast institutions as the Post:

 

"I know exactly what Parker's talking about because I've taken verbal and written shots at Detroit over the years.  I once said it looked like Beirut.  Since Cleveland's revitalization in the mid-1990s, Detroit has become the easiest target among big American cities."

 

An East Coast hack truly believes that Cleveland has turned the corner...why can't we?

Um, Wilbon is a pretty well-respected sportswriter--on the RIGHT coast.  I wouldn't be so quick to judge, either.  I joke that half the people in DC are from New England, and the other half are from Ohio.  Many of your so-called "elitists" are more than aware of what Cleveland is really like.

 

Signed,

 

An East Coast elitist from Cleveland

Even though I like Cleveland more than Detroit in every way, I will admit that Detroit has a bit more name recognition than Cleveland. Even while surfing alot of these urban sites Detroit is mentioned alot more than Cleveland on a National and International basis. After this Super Bowl thier name regonition will probably get even better, the city has a rich and famous history that will be hard to snuff out. What Cleveland needs is a good gimmick, if they going to be the "Rock n Roll" city they need to focus on that an build the city around that gimmick.

 

Detroit has a stronger image than Cleveland nationally, but since it is based primarily in crime and decay, and the declining auto industry, I wouldn't necessarily say that it is a good thing.  At any rate, Detroit is twice Cleveland's size, so it should have a better known national image, after all.

As a native Detroiter, I can tell you why the Super Bowl was a good thing to bring to the city.  It will probably not have any long term effects on the city's image nor will it be a huge economic boost.  Detroit's image is too shattered to change overnight and there are still thousands of problems to deal with in the region.

 

This event brought the metro area together.  For once, people from Detroit were proud to be from Detroit. They worked hard to make Downtown look great.  People in the suburbs actually cared about the city.  Normally, it is hard to find anybody who cares what goes on in the city.  This is a region that refuses to even come to an agreement when it comes to bus service!  They ate downtown, visited the shops.  Some people who came from the suburbs hadn't been in the city for 15 years!

 

Metro Detroit suffers badly from a "woe is us" image like many people have in Cleveland unfortunately. They look down at their city, and bash it.  The media does it and so do the residents.  For once people in Detroit were not saying this.  They worked together, suburb and city.  That never happens in Detroit.  Now, the region just needs to continue that relationship and things will look much better.  No matter what cost, this makes me happy as a Detroiter.  For once we were all proud of being Detroiters and boasted it. To me, that is priceless, hopefully it changes backwards thinking that has haunted Metro Detroit for 50 years. 

 

If this had happened in Cleveland and you saw the region working together, collaborating, people proud of your city, maybe you wouldnt think having the Super Bowl is such a bad thing after all. Detroit did this to boost its image locally just as much as it did nationally.  I have to believe Cleveland needs some of that as well considering all the negative things we hear about our city in the media and from near sighted residents of the region.  I'm not advocating building a dome in Cleveland, far from it, I''m just giving you a perspective on what effect it had on Detroiters.  I don't think that effect would be bad thing for Northeast Ohio to feel good about their city and to boost themselves up.  In the months I have lived in Cleveland, I have seen, it too suffers from that same local image problem that Detroit suffers from.  Until Clevelanders change that, I'm not sure the region will ever grow again.  We must get past that as a region.  I'm hopeful the Super Bowl did that for Detroit.

you guys are off track here. screw being the host, it would have been better if cleveland was "in" detroit for superbowl weekend !!! 42yrs is a loooong drought.

Compared to the way I used to be, I pay far less attention to professional sports (or sports overall). In the past, I would have cried tears of joy if the Browns won the Super Bowl. Today, I suspect I would be merely happy -- but partially mad that it didn't happen when I actually cared about the Browns.

 

To show you how things are with me anymore, I wasn't able to remember the name of the Browns coach the other day. But in the 1980s, I could tell you Sam Rutigliano's or Marty Schottenheimer's won-loss record at any given point, his coaching career, his alma mater, his assistant coaches, etc. etc. I have no idea who Romeo Cornell's (is his last name even spelled right?) assistant coaches are, what his record is, or anything like that.

 

If someone told me that no Cleveland team would win a championship in my lifetime, I could live with that. But if someone told me my city would remain stagnant with a diminished urbanity as it has for the past 50 years, I would move before the year is out.

to the negative posters. Don't make your flame bigger by blowing out another's candle. This is a site to promote the discussion of ohio's wonderful cities, not take immature jabs at Detroit, or any other city for that matter.

 

Furthermore, I absolutely love some of our abilities to make such wide-spread qualitative surveys of two cities in a mere sentence or two.

 

^Bingo.  Read my sig-line.

Don't make your flame bigger by blowing out another's candle.

 

We just don't give the pope enough credit.

 

Don't make your flame bigger by blowing out another's candle.

 

We just don't give the pope enough credit.

 

 

sometimes you really just need to make more sense in your posts.

We don't give you enough credit, look at KJP's Cleveland poster, maybe its a joke, but you still get a reputation from it.

WHO F*CKIN' CARES?

 

I couldn't agree more. I can't even believe this is being raised a reason to envy Detroit (or any other city that hosts the SB, for that matter).

Houston = vacation wonderland

to the negative posters. Don't make your flame bigger by blowing out another's candle. This is a site to promote the discussion of ohio's wonderful cities, not take immature jabs at Detroit, or any other city for that matter.

 

Furthermore, I absolutely love some of our abilities to make such wide-spread qualitative surveys of two cities in a mere sentence or two.

 

 

I don't know if you were directing this at me.  If so, I apologize if you thought I was insulting Detroit for fun.  I thought I was stating a neutral, if unpleasant fact.

I wasn't stating it at anyone specific, just reiterating the forum rules.

I thought Detroit looked great, and the super bowl and the all star game helped the city a lot I think.  It was not that long ago Cleveland had "light up Cleveland" nights for Monday night football games.  I think in both cases it made people realize that both cities were not some sort of Escape from New York horror villages.

 

Also, let's remember Clevelanders and Ohioans that Detroit, Pittsburg or even other cities in Ohio are not the competition, Jackson MS, Atlanta, Jacksonville, etc is.  So, don't knock your brothers.

I wasn't stating it at anyone specific, just reiterating the forum rules.

 

But anything still goes for Ann Arbor and Pittsburgh, right? :-D

Cleveland may not be able to host a superbowl (or Cincy and CBus for that matter).  But all of these cities do have distinct positives about them that they can promote.  Both Cleveland and Cincy have beautiful baseball stadiums.  Why not try to attract the newly created World Baseball Classic?  CBus has a gorgeous new arena/arena district.....this could help attract an NBA team, NCAA tourney round, etc.  Hell Cincy even tried to haul in the 2012 Summer Olympic Games, with its number of great sporting facilities.

 

There is more to life than the Superbowl.....Ohio lets think outside the box.

I Agree^^^I am starting to get information on how to bring The DCI(Drum Corps International) world Championships to Cincinnati. It is a four day event that would bring between 40-50 thousand people to Cincinnati from all over the U.S. Many stadiums including Paul Brown, and nippert as well as many high school stadiums would be utilized. This event is shown on ESPN and gets over a million viewers..."Small" projects like this, when done correctly bring very good publicity to a city.

DCI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 2010 CINCINNATI!!!

 

By the way- last year championships were held at Gillette Stadium (the Patriots) and this year they will be held in Madison, Wisconsin at Camp Randall Stadium at the University of Wisconsin. Next year it will be held in Pasadena, at the ROSE Bowl....come on if it is good enough for the rose bowl, it is good enough for Cincy!!

^ha, band dork

so what!!! :-D...These shows are pretty phenominal....Nothing like your High School or College Marching Bands.....its Drum Corps...

i was a band dork and have been to some of the DCI competitions

Personally, I prefer Drum dork (or in my case drummer wannabe)

 

Percussive Arts Society International Convention (PASIC)

 

1976 Rochester, New York . John Beck . Eastman School of Music

1977 Knoxville, Tennessee . Michael Combs . University of Tennessee

1978 Tempe, Arizona . Merv Britton . Arizona State University

1979 New York, New York . Morris Lang . Taft Hotel

1980 San Jose, California . Tony Cirone . Convention Center

1981 Indianapolis, Indiana . Paul Berns . Convention Center

1982 Dallas, Texas . Robert Schietroma . Loews Anatole Hotel

1983 Knoxville, Tennessee . Michael Combs . Convention Center

1984 Ann Arbor, Michigan . Michael Udow . University of Michigan

1985 Los Angeles, California . Jay Wanamaker . Sheraton Hotel

1986 Washington, D.C. . Randall Eyles . Convention Center and Kennedy Center

1987 St. Louis, Missouri . Norm Goldberg/Thomas Siwe . Adam’s Mark Hotel

1988 San Antonio, Texas . Genaro Gonzalez . Henry Gonzalez Convention Center

1989 Nashville, Tennessee . Bill Wiggins . Stouffer Hotel/Convention Center

1990 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania . Dean Witten . Adams Hotel

1991 Anaheim, California . Dave Black . Disneyland Hotel

1992 New Orleans, Louisiana . Jim Atwood . Hyatt Regency Hotel

1993 Columbus, Ohio . Robert Breithaupt . Greater Columbus Convention Center

1994 Atlanta, Georgia . Tony McCutchen . Peachtree Plaza Hotel

1995 Phoenix, Arizona . J.B. Smith . Phoenix Civic Plaza

1996 Nashville, Tennessee . Bill Wiggins . Renaissance Hotel/Convention Center

1997 Anaheim, California . Theresa Dimond . Disneyland Hotel

1998 Orlando, Florida . Beth Radock Gottlieb . Orange County Convention Center

1999 Columbus, Ohio . Jim Rupp . Greater Columbus Convention Center

2000 Dallas, Texas . Michael Varner . Hyatt Regency Dallas

2001 Nashville, Tennessee . George Barrett . Nashville Convention Center & Renaissance Nashville Hotel

2002 Columbus, Ohio . Susan Powell . Greater Columbus Convention Center

2003 Louisville, Kentucky . Rick Mattingly . Kentucky International Convention Center

2004 Nashville, Tennessee . George Barrett . Nashville Convention Center & Renaissance Nashville Hotel

2005 Columbus, Ohio . Greater Columbus Convention Center

2006 Austin, Texas.

2007 Columbus, Ohio . Greater Columbus Convention Center

 

 

From NewsNet5.com - 2/14/2006

 

Developer Hopes To Raise $90M For Stadium Dome

Councilman Says Building Roofless Stadium Was Mistake

POSTED: 6:28 pm EST February 14, 2006

 

CLEVELAND -- A local developer is leading the efforts in raising the $90 million it would cost to put a dome on Cleveland Browns Stadium, reported 5 On Your Side's Tony Gaskins. 

 

City Councilman Mike Polensik and developer Bob Corna outlined their proposal Tuesday to the listeners of the Mike Trivisono Show on WTAM.  The plan would cap the stadium with a state-of-the-art retractable roof.  "If you look 10 years out and look at the picture, what we're talking about is quite simply, what can you draw with a stadium like that?  Well, No. 1 is the Super Bowl," said Corna.

 

Corna said the money could be raised by continuing the tax on cigarettes and alcohol that built Gateway, and also by getting political and civic leaders involved, an essential step in redeveloping the lakefront.

 

MORE: http://www.newsnet5.com/news/7056180/detail.html

1) only 90 million?

 

2) i think we've established its not worth clevelan blowing its wad to host an event every 10-15 years

2) i think we've established its not worth clevelan blowing its wad to host an event every 10-15 years

 

but if this would make the stadium usable year round for other events, fits in with convention and lake front plans...one word...synergy.  if it exists and can be funded not on back of the cleveland schools, roads, police and fire, i say go for it.

 

think big.

What other events are envisioned?  I find it hard to believe that Ford Field is used 365 days a year.  Or anything close to that.

What other events are envisioned?  I find it hard to believe that Ford Field is used 365 days a year.  Or anything close to that.

 

but ford field isn't close to the conv. center like ours is.

 

If a dome is added and the CC expanded forward the total unobstructed "exhibtion space" would be almost the same as the IX center, from what i'm told.

 

 

Here are some things I got from an insider on how the CC Campus could be developed

 

A-Construct a semi-perm dome which can be brought down on great days but up durring really bad weather or for convention/meeting use

 

B- push current CC north to NCH, bridging the rail lines

 

C- Add Conv. Sized hotel at NCH to Bridge the current meeting space at CBS and expanded CCC

 

D - Add Convention sized hotel at around E9, as a foundation is already there. I think this is from the abandonded Hilton Towers

 

E - enhance NCH with more retail/attractions and Housing

What other events are envisioned?  I find it hard to believe that Ford Field is used 365 days a year.  Or anything close to that.

 

really not much. A few of the mega-concerts end up there (U2, rolling stones) and the occasional sporting event (ncaa bball, hs football, blah blah blah)

 

also, i know arrowhead stadium is looking at adding a dome (give me a day i'll find something concrete) and they are looking at a 450 million pricetag........

^Pope,  I think the Arrowhead project also calls for a Soldier Field style renovation as well.  I think I remember reading somewhere that the dome would be $100-200 of that $450 million.  I'll take a look though.

 

I think that, if we could get the NFL to commit to two Super Bowls over 40 years, and the NCAA to commit to three final fours over the same time period, it would be worth it.  The economic as well as the psychological impact of those events on city residents would be large.  However, without guarantees (I think KC got one guaranteed Super Bowl over the next 20 years or something), I wouldn't build based on speculation alone.

^ I agree Ewoops... though the potential impact could be great, it's just that... potential.  I'm kind of torn on this one, I'm intrigued by the impact in could have economically and psychologically on the region; but at the same time I'm a little skeptical about spending $$$$ on adding a dome that may not bring the back the return investment as initially thought.

 

Also, I wonder what it would look like; I suppose similar to the one in KC?

I think I would support it with the features that My2cents suggested. That would create the year-round underground city that I've long desired. But I'd still want to create a underground link from the convention center to Tower City as part of closing the intersecting roads in the middle of the square and to give FCE a consolation prize.

^great idea!  I wonder what it would cost to provide the underground Tower City link?  I think linking it with a revamp of Public Square is a great idea as well.  Further, there's got to be a better way to create an above ground flow from the Malls to Public Square, I think that the Malls are visually my favorite part of downtown, but they are terribly under-utilized.

Cleveland has already done a fantastic job of sucking pedestrians off the street with Tower City.  Why would you want to sound the death knell of foot traffic downtown?

Cleveland has already done a fantastic job of sucking pedestrians off the street with Tower City.  Why would you want to sound the death knell of foot traffic downtown?

 

funny, i thought you would have said the galleria

 

yeah the kc proposal includes a decent rennovation of arrowhead, i'm trying to dig up the article to see if it separates costs. And believe the nfl gave them the superbowl in the next 5 or six years (contigent obviously)

Nah, there's no one even IN the Galleria anymore.

Nah, there's no one even IN the Galleria anymore.

 

the hungarian historical musuem finds your comments in bad taste