WATCHDOG: Erasing tax bill cleared the way for Tower Place future

Jan. 23, 2014 11:12 PM

Written by Sharon Coolidge

 

Hamilton County Auditor Dusty Rhodes was shocked when his office got a call last month asking it to erase a nearly $1 million tax bill on the former Tower Place Mall in Downtown.

 

Forgive back taxes? That was money due Cincinnati Public Schools and the recipients of 11 county levies, including foster children, the mentally ill and people with developmental disabilities, he thought.

 

But that is exactly what the county land bank was asking him to do.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=20140124&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=301240036&Ref=AR

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/03/is-the-fourth-and-race-apartment-deal.html?page=all

 

The Cranley quote of "why tear down a garage just to build another one" basically sums up how small minded he thinks about this kind of stuff.  I had a bad feeling this Salon issue was going to come back to hold this project up.

 

If this really falls through because of that it will be incredibly unfortunate.  Especially considering the garage needs to come down regardless, it is falling apart.

Just like "it doesn't cost $40 million to say no" I bet he also thinks that old buildings can be fixed with just fairy dust and unicorn farts. 

I loathe this man so goddamned much. :(

Cranley is going to destroy everything gained the last 8 years simply out of political revenge

Sounds like it will cost $13 million to get a new garage, grocery, and housing, and just slightly less for only a fixed-up, but old garage. I'm confident council will not let the latter happen.

Cranley is going to destroy everything gained the last 8 years simply out of political revenge

 

That would be true if he was an executive mayor. Fortunately, I think council has enough progressive votes to prevent him from undoing most of what he'd like to undo. Cranley will certainly drag his feet and slow the progress, but hopefully council won't let us start moving backwards.

Cranley is going to destroy everything gained the last 8 years simply out of political revenge

 

That would be true if he was an executive mayor. Fortunately, I think council has enough progressive votes to prevent him from undoing most of what he'd like to undo. Cranley will certainly drag his feet and slow the progress, but hopefully council won't let us start moving backwards.

 

True.  Lets hope.

 

In the meantime, Smitherman's strong mayor ballot initiative needs to go down in flames

So the city bought Tower place mall and the garage for 8 Million, sold Tower Place for $1, and leased the garage to Flaherty & Collins (that will be torn down

and the apartment is supposed to be built). And the City is supposed to come up with 12 Million to give to Flaherty & Collins? How does the city get their

money back, where is the ROI?

So the owners of Paragon are going to announce Wednesday what their intentions are.  Hopefully more intelligent heads prevail and the owner of the Salon realizes how big this is for the City. Between Council and Flaherty Collins working to make this happen i would hope that a solution can be found.

 

It would be awful to lose this type development downtown.  Buildings like this being built are rare in mid sized mid western towns... to have it fall through over petty politics would be awful. 

 

It annoys me how Cranley doesnt view downtown as a neighborhood.  Wasnt the city portion for this used with TIF money anyway?  So it has to be spent where it is sourced? (I could be wrong).  But then it cant be "spent in the neighborhoods." 

 

I am just so tired of the constant political rhetoric where its "Neighborhoods VS Downtown" ... God forbid we strive to be a city with a great core and neighborhoods and not just one or the other.

Agreed, downtown is a neighborhood and the one that provides a lot of bang for the buck.  Cranley is a selfish child taking his ball and going home because he didn't get his way.

 

Someone call Cranley and tell him that campaign season is over.  It's time to stop pandering and start making sure that everything that happens on his watch is a success. 

So the owners of Paragon are going to announce Wednesday what their intentions are.  Hopefully more intelligent heads prevail and the owner of the Salon realizes how big this is for the City. Between Council and Flaherty Collins working to make this happen i would hope that a solution can be found.

 

It would be awful to lose this type development downtown.  Buildings like this being built are rare in mid sized mid western towns... to have it fall through over petty politics would be awful. 

 

It annoys me how Cranley doesnt view downtown as a neighborhood.  Wasnt the city portion for this used with TIF money anyway?  So it has to be spent where it is sourced? (I could be wrong).  But then it cant be "spent in the neighborhoods." 

 

I am just so tired of the constant political rhetoric where its "Neighborhoods VS Downtown" ... God forbid we strive to be a city with a great core and neighborhoods and not just one or the other.

 

The Salon is in a good negotiating position. I don't get the sole focus on  Flaherty Collins or that this a deal the city might lose.

There are many developers that would like a shot at this site. Why didn't the city RFP 10 developers?

So the city bought Tower place mall and the garage for 8 Million, sold Tower Place for $1, and leased the garage to Flaherty & Collins (that will be torn down

and the apartment is supposed to be built). And the City is supposed to come up with 12 Million to give to Flaherty & Collins? How does the city get their

money back, where is the ROI?

 

ROI can come from numerous sources, in this case. These will be relatively upscale housing units, taking up little space, in an area they're likely to be in high demand. 300 units, each with a value similar to a house in a neighborhood like Hyde Park or the Clifton Gaslight District. You'd have trouble fitting that many houses in those places, and if you could you'd have trouble finding that many occupants. Plus the amount of infrastructure necessary to support that many houses is much higher, so the associated costs are also much higher.

 

Having new construction, plus an urban grocery store, plus the increase in vibrancy from having hundreds more people Downtown on a daily basis, makes Cincinnati a more attractive place to potential new residents or even visitors. It raises the profile of the city in the eyes of people who probably would never see the results of an equivalent number of housing units built outside the Downtown area. Hence it adds to the synergy of other investments in the urban core, which have already led to regional and national attention.

 

Having more residents in the city, and in particular more higher income residents, means a return via tax dollars. More value from existing infrastructure means less expenditures. Any tourists coming to the city due to the synergy this project will be a part of brings money to the area.

 

This project alone is important (lots of residential units in an in-demand location, plus the grocery tenant), but happening in conjunction with all the other projects going on is what really makes it valuable. It adds value to the streetcar, to Smale Park, to the restaurants where the residents will dine, the shops they'll use, etc. Cincy has been draining population, the region has been stagnant, for years. That's not destiny, and this is the type of project proven elsewhere to elevate a city's profile and capture economic growth.

 

Remember, this replaces a garage that would need expensive rehab and the deadspace Tower Place Mall. It's a high profile location that'll be lively instead of wasted space. All for not much more money than it would be to fix up the deteriorating garage.

Incredibly unlikely.

I hope you didn't bet on that.

Fourth and Race apartment tower: What the city's deal with the developer says

Chris Wetterich

Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The development at Fourth and Race streets appears to be falling apart. Here’s what the agreement says.

 

Flaherty & Collins will:

 

    Demolish the garage

 

    Build a 30-story mixed use tower with 300 luxury apartments, a rooftop pool and fitness center

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/03/4th-and-race-apartment-tower-what-the.html

People here suffer from the "sameness" syndrome.

It seems that Cincinnati progress on becoming a top notch city is slowing down, since Cranley took office. The Banks is all out of wack, now this project. But  if people support this project like the streetcar. That will be another punch in his face. Is Cranley against making Cincinnati a better place. You have to spend money to get money.

Of course he's against it. If the city improves people like him lose their ability to manipulate the masses.

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

 

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

PG says council won't let him Crancel this. Said a divided council voted 9-0 for it last term, and there will be continued support.

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

 

 

He is a bond and finance attorney. Thinks the city can get a better deal done with 4th and Race.

A slight detour from the political mess...this photo is from the 14th floor of the Ingalls Building.  I found it interesting that the mall and Pogue's garage, while by no means squat structures, are still rather short compared to their surroundings.  There's definitely room for a taller building.

 

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

I wouldn't argue that at all, but it just sounded to me like he wanted to axe it, because he didn't want to move the Salon for $1.4 million. Maybe I missed something. It will be great if they can negotiate a good deal for all parties, it seems like a great project for downtown, and is replacing an asset that isn't worth much anymore. Thanks.

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

 

Always?  Every single time?  Have you analyzed every deal Cincinnati city council has made for the past 225 years? 

 

Please share your 2013 tax return with us to show us what perfection looks like.  The government's budgets must be negotiated in public and are viewable by the public. 

 

Private citizens are not required to make their finances public, yet they often convince themselves that they possess some sort of financial "common sense" that government officials don't understand. 

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

 

KyleCincy, I don't know if Cranley ever followed through and repaid the $75,000 LISC  loan, but when he was a candidate for mayor he said he would:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131028/NEWS010602/310280164/Cranley-agrees-repay-75-000-loan-development

How can you complain about city council, when we voted them into council. Maybe we need to pick better people. We did put Cranley in office

3CDC steps in to solve Fourth and Race dilemma

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. will advise the city on how to resolve the status of the Fourth and Race apartment tower project, which is in jeopardy because the status of a tenant in the garage to be torn down for the project has not been resolved.

 

Mayor John Cranley and Councilman Chris Seelbach asked the nonprofit developer to act as a “development adviser” and work with the city, developer Flaherty & Collins and Paragon Salons, the tenant still located in Pogue’s Garage. 3CDC will make a recommendation on a path forward, “along with an analysis of costs to the city if the project is not completed.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/04/3cdc-steps-in-to-solve-fourth-and-race.html

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

 

Ah, "clowncil."  There it is--I was wondering when it would all come out. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/05/exclusive-paragon-salons-sues.html

 

Now Paragon is filing a lawsuit to try and enforce their lease through 2017.  Getting held up in court is definitely not what this project needs.  This seems like this project, if it ever happens, will now be in limbo for quite some time. 

 

This issue should have been resolved quite some time ago, and it is unfortunate that it is going to block such a positive development for the City. It sounds like everyone just assumed it would work itself out and it never did. 

 

Moving to Carew Tower would have solved everything but it sounds like that fell apart last second. Frustrating.

3CDC steps in to solve Fourth and Race dilemma

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. will advise the city on how to resolve the status of the Fourth and Race apartment tower project, which is in jeopardy because the status of a tenant in the garage to be torn down for the project has not been resolved.

 

Mayor John Cranley and Councilman Chris Seelbach asked the nonprofit developer to act as a “development adviser” and work with the city, developer Flaherty & Collins and Paragon Salons, the tenant still located in Pogue’s Garage. 3CDC will make a recommendation on a path forward, “along with an analysis of costs to the city if the project is not completed.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/04/3cdc-steps-in-to-solve-fourth-and-race.html

 

 

I love this quote:

 

3CDC will make a recommendation on a path forward, “along with an analysis of costs to the city if the project is not completed.”

 

How often is the same scenario going to play out under Cranley's watch?

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

 

Yeah and the decision to build a profitable railroad is also an "awful deal"...

 

Next time try to back up your arguments, assertions and accusations with facts instead of colorful phrases.

 

This thread is being watched.

 

Thanks!

Can anyone guess what his agenda is on this?  Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

To oppose every project that improves downtown so that in 2017, he can say, "I fought for the neighborhoods instead of wasting money downtown."

 

 

True. Also, somehow I feel it has to do with his boosters and or future plans. He doesn't want the core to thrive, he wants to keep pleasing the outer ring.  Which is kind of more in line with what you said. But what do you think of him being anti-urban and pushing a more suburban agenda to please voters on a possible future run for congress or senate?

 

Cranley is not anti Downtown he is negotiating a new deal. Look at the great deal he got for his Price Hill Development. He has a new Client now.

 

 

 

The one he still owes $70,000 on?  I thought only Liz Rodgers doesn't pay her loans. 

I seriously doubt that Cranley owes $70,00 on a loan to the city. The LLC might owe that, but it just proves my point in the

banks thread. Clowncil makes awful deals.

 

Ah, "clowncil."  There it is--I was wondering when it would all come out. 

 

Yeah, somebody listens to Scott Sloan's show and believes it. 

 

I wonder what options the lease has for the city to cancel the salon’s lease early. It seems to me that they are going to get the amount they’re asking for if this development is going to go forward.

 

Of course, there’s always hardball and the city could start work on demolition of the garage while the suit goes forward. Even closing the garage would probably hurt the salon’s business by quite a bit. Though those both seem like an overreaction, the amount the salon is requesting only seems to be a little bit too high. I admit I don’t know how many square feet the place is or how nice it is, but unless it’s close to 7000sf or one of the nicer salons in town, they’re asking too much. They’re nowhere near the level of the rent controlled residents in NYC asking for tens of millions for their moldy 200 square foot closets, though, so it could be worse.

 

Looks like this may be close to resolving in favor of moving the project forward:

 

Pogue’s developer: We’ll pay to move Paragon: EXCLUSIVE

 

Flaherty & Collins Properties, the developer that wants to tear down the Pogue’s Garage in downtown Cincinnati and build a 30-story apartment tower, is willing to take on the cost of moving the building’s only tenant, Paragon Salon.

David Flaherty, CEO of Indianapolis-based Flaherty & Collins, said in the interest of getting the project moving forward, it would cover the cost of assisting Paragon with its move to a new location, taking the burden off the city. Mayor John Cranley said earlier this week that the city would not put another dollar into the project at the corner of Fourth and Race streets, even though it was up to the city to resolve the lease with Paragon, which ends in 2017.

Extremely fast moving story.  Hopefully that puts all the concerns to bed and nothing else comes up.  Should be a win-win... get Paragon a  better location and get this project rolling.

It's a great sign for the Cincy market that the developer is acting like this project is not charity work that needs never-ending public subsidy. But kind of sad that a developer in Indianapolis believes in the project more than the mayor of Cincinnati.

^-Sad but shockingly typical old school Cincinnati :(

 

Progress happens in spite of Cranley not because of him.

 

EXCLUSIVE: Cranley still wants 3CDC to examine 4th and Race redevelopment deal

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Mayor John Cranley still wants the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) to examine the deal to redevelop Pogue’s Garage at Fourth and Race streets even though developer Flaherty & Collins has agreed to pay to move Paragon Salons, the remaining tenant at the site.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/05/exclusive-cranley-still-wants-3cdc-to.html

They should probably pause the whole thing until Cranley has an opportunity to mull things over and spend twice what it would to move the Salon on consultation fees. Break a few contracts in the mean time, on faith that all parties will bend to his whims.

It's a great sign for the Cincy market that the developer is acting like this project is not charity work that needs never-ending public subsidy. But kind of sad that a developer in Indianapolis believes in the project more than the mayor of Cincinnati.

 

Or it is such a good project it does not need anymore subsidies and that additional subsidies can be applied to other worthy projects.  Who cares the reasoning, it only matters the result.

Yeah, really cool that they are willing to help out on it.  I'm guessing they're getting a little tired of waiting on starting this.  Really lucky they're willing to work with us, instead of just dropping it instead.

Is Cincinnati paying too much for 4th and Race tower compared to other projects?

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

One of Mayor John Cranley's concerns about the Fourth and Race apartment tower project is that the city lavished a $12 million forgivable loan onto the 30-story, 300-unit building - a subsidy he described as "too rich."

 

At $12 million, the total amount of city money being kicked in far exceeds the other major real estate projects in downtown and Over-the-Rhine that have made headlines over the past two to three years.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/07/is-cincinnati-paying-too-much-for-4th.html

It's a great sign for the Cincy market that the developer is acting like this project is not charity work that needs never-ending public subsidy. But kind of sad that a developer in Indianapolis believes in the project more than the mayor of Cincinnati.

 

Or it is such a good project it does not need anymore subsidies and that additional subsidies can be applied to other worthy projects.  Who cares the reasoning, it only matters the result.

 

I would argue that the reasoning matters very much, because the total subsidy per unit is a reflection of how healthy the downtown market is.

EXCLUSIVE: Flaherty & Collins offered 4th and Race plan with reduced city subsidy

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The Indianapolis-based developer planning to build a 30-story apartment tower at Fourth and Race streets offered to take less money from the city to build the project if the city took over building the garage and grocery store that are supposed to go beneath it.

 

Last week, Flaherty & Collins wrote a memo to Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley outlining the benefits of the project as proposed, which would lead to the demolition of Pogue’s Garage, and an “alternative deal structure.” The Business Courier obtained the memo through a public records request.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/11/exclusive-flaherty-collins-offered-4th-and-race.html