It's not up to the MLS.. it's the owner of the stadium who would decide.

 

But I thought that MLS wants soccer-only stadia for its franchises.  Would that preclude college/high school use?  Or does it only mean that they don't want a professional team from another sport using the stadium?

MLS wants soccer designed stadiums with appropriate seating capacity, etc.  Columbus is used for HS football playoffs, HS soccer playoffs, concerts, etc.

Downtown would be my first choice, and those familiar with this saga remember that a while ago Bert Wolstein - now of course deceased - proposed this to the city of Cleveland and was basically shown the door...which is too bad because NONE of the current crop of US-based MLS stadia, including Crew Stadium, Toyota Park (Chicago) and the new ones on the drawing board are in a true urban area, like a downtown...Cleveland could have been on the cutting edge with this one.

 

Fast forward to the present and Wolstein's son Scott, and their mega-billion dollar company - Developers Diversified - are pushing for Macedonia partially because of its central location and partially because they already own a big chunk of the land there.

 

To them, one advantage to having a complex like this in the suburbs would be the 20+ additional soccer fields that would be used on a weekly basis during the spring/summer/fall for large traveling (and local) tournaments.  That cannot happen at the corner of E22 and Chester...or anywhere downtown.

^^^it only means that the stadium would have to be tailored around the playing of soccer.  i.e. less seating, sightlines suited for soccerr matches, etc.  Look at Columbus' field for a great example of this...

 

...to dovetail on what MTS mentioned...Brad Fiedel is doing many of the things you suggest, only out on the West side of town

 

http://www.premiersocceracademies.com/index2.html

 

...maybe MLS could tie it in with his soccer academy?

MLS wants soccer designed stadiums with appropriate seating capacity, etc.

 

^^^it only means that the stadium would have to be tailored around the playing of soccer.  i.e. less seating, sightlines suited for soccerr matches, etc.  Look at Columbus' field for a great example of this...

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Thank you ChiClevKid for pointing out that Crew Stadium isn't in an "urban" area--I don't care what anyone says b/c when we think "urban", we don't anticipate wandering around fairgrounds with the only amenity a McDonalds.  Again, I think Chicago can "afford" to have their stadium way out in the burbs but fortunately, we don't have that luxury.

 

Walking home from work yesterday it looks like W25/Lorain isn't large enough but something like Lakewood Stadium or developing around CSU would do a lot of good things for the respective neighborhoods.  Again, Byers or Finnie (BW) would be much better than starting from scratch in Macedonia or whatever.

 

It's fun to think of the transformation that could occur if/when a development like this happens in the inner city!  This could be the domed stadium needed for bowl games/final four (both looking for crowds around 30,000?) but unfortunately no superbowl since a 70,000+ stadium is too big!

 

..... but something like Lakewood Stadium or developing around CSU would do a lot of good things for the respective neighborhoods. 

 

Hello League Park.  A baseball stadium, a soccer stadium along with the African American sports museum.  Rocket Science!

Uhhh.. yeahhhhhhhhh.. about thatttttttttt..

Yep the city dropped the ball or else an unbelievable sports complex could be happening right now at CSU.

 

I think MLS has a future. No not like NFL proportions, but the league fills its purpose, providing a pro soccer league. And plus, think of all the awesome Cleveland MLS highlights that will be on UniVision.  :-)

 

Oh yeah, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the price of the games is relatively affordable. Cheap family entertainment.

Yep the city dropped the ball or else an unbelievable sports complex could be happening right now at CSU.

How exactly did the city drop the ball??

First of all, Akron is not a suburb of Cleveland. They are, however part of the same metropolitan area. This is an area of 4.5 million people to draw from for anything. Last I heard, this is the 7th largest market in the nation for anything. A more neutral location for the team in Northern Summit County will allow the team to draw from a radius including all of Cleveland but not excluding Akron and it's suburbs the way it would if placed in Downtown Cleveland. Also, it would be special in Summit County. People would want to support it and go out of their way to support it. In Cleveland, it would be another, lesser sporting stadium and event. It's OK to regionalize. Don't be scared. It's for the best.

First of all, Akron is not a suburb of Cleveland. .

 

Who here said it was?

I wouldn't call a retractable FRICKING roof stadium in the middle of an open field surrounded by the area's umpteenth lifestyle center regionalization!

Oh, and what lesser sporting stadiums are there in Cleveland b/c the CSU Wolstein Center is the only thing not used by a pro team but has a number of concerts, conventions, sporting events, etc. 

 

Whatever, I don't know why we've been getting into this the past few days...

 

First of all, Akron is not a suburb of Cleveland. .

 

Who here said it was?

 

Fine put the MLS stadium in Akron.  To most Clevelanders its simply a suburb of Cleveland anyways. 

 

He was the first one I found.

First of all, Akron is not a suburb of Cleveland. They are, however part of the same metropolitan area.

 

No, Cleveland, Elyria, and Mentor are all in the same metropolitan statistical area.  Akron is also in its own.  We are in the same combined staistical area, however.

 

This is an area of 4.5 million people to draw from for anything. Last I heard, this is the 7th largest market in the nation for anything. A more neutral location for the team in Northern Summit County will allow the team to draw from a radius including all of Cleveland but not excluding Akron and it's suburbs the way it would if placed in Downtown Cleveland.

 

If you're going to use the stat of 4.5 million, that includes Youngstown, Warren, Sandusky, Canton, Ashtabula, and others.  Northern Summit County is hardly central to all those cities.  If you're going to use a stat which includes Youngstown and Warren to prove your point, then the stadium may as well go in Garretsville.

 

Also, it would be special in Summit County.

 

It would be special in rural northern Summit County, just like the Richfield Colosseum was?

He was the first one I found.

 

I stand corrected then.  Yet jam40jeff makes very valid points!

 

Also, it would be special in Summit County.

 

It would be special in rural northern Summit County, just like the Richfield Colosseum was?

 

Probably more like Blossom & Boston Mills/Brandywine are special in Summit County. 

 

Summit County is also the 4th most populous county in the state, behind Cuyahoga, Franklin, and Montgomery.  Ahead of Lucas.  Not sure it qualifies as rural.

 

Also, Richfield drew just fine, assuming the franchise was being run well (re:  Ted Stepien years don't count).  Besides, its not like the Gund was drawing people simply because it was downtown.  Avg. attendence the year before LeBron was 11,496, worst in the league.  His rookie year it was 18,287. 

Avg. attendence the year before LeBron was 11,496, worst in the league.  His rookie year it was 18,287. 

 

Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh.  You're playing with statics.  You're only using basketball statistics.  You have to use the full year of events.  The Gund [the Q] brought in quite a few more people than the out in the middle of nowhere Colosseum.

 

Downtown Cleveland already has the infrastructure, in place, to support this type of venue. Why reinvent the wheel?  A wheel that already has been proven to be a flat?

Avg. attendence the year before LeBron was 11,496, worst in the league.  His rookie year it was 18,287. 

 

Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh.  You're playing with statics.  You're only using basketball statistics.  You have to use the full year of events.  The Gund [the Q] brought in quite a few more people than the out in the middle of nowhere Colosseum.

 

Downtown Cleveland already has the infrastructure, in place, to support this type of venue. Why reinvent the wheel?  A wheel that already has been proven to be a flat?

 

Well, I think Cleveland would be preferred, as many have mentioned, as a joint CSU/MLS/HS Sports stadium.  But for whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be happening.  Some have alledged the city isn't insterested, some have alledged Wolstein isn't interested.  I personally don't know.

 

But I guess I am not of the opinon that Richfield was a failure.  It drew well for Cavs games, it drew well for Force/Crunch games.  It hosted other events regularly like the circus, moster truck rallies, concerts, and WWF events.  Blossom does fine and assuming the weather co-operates so do the ski places. 

 

I guess the question is if the demand for an MLS stadium is there, why isn't there more of a push to put it downtown?

Avg. attendence the year before LeBron was 11,496, worst in the league.  His rookie year it was 18,287. 

 

Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh.  You're playing with statics.  You're only using basketball statistics.  You have to use the full year of events.  The Gund [the Q] brought in quite a few more people than the out in the middle of nowhere Colosseum.

 

If you going to criticize someone else's statistics, you'd better bring your own to the table.

Summit County is also the 4th most populous county in the state, behind Cuyahoga, Franklin, and Montgomery.  Ahead of Lucas.  Not sure it qualifies as rural.

 

Just fwiw, Summit County is fifth.  Hamilton is before Montgomery.

Summit County is also the 4th most populous county in the state, behind Cuyahoga, Franklin, and Montgomery.  Ahead of Lucas.  Not sure it qualifies as rural.

 

Just fwiw, Summit County is fifth.  Hamilton is before Montgomery.

 

Sorry, I meant Hamilton.  Summit (545,931) has more than Montgomery (542,237).

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39113.html

 

^I was going by actual Census counts, not their "pull a number out of a hat" estimates.

you guys done?

Avg. attendence the year before LeBron was 11,496, worst in the league.  His rookie year it was 18,287. 

 

Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh.  You're playing with statics.  You're only using basketball statistics.  You have to use the full year of events.  The Gund [the Q] brought in quite a few more people than the out in the middle of nowhere Colosseum.

 

Downtown Cleveland already has the infrastructure, in place, to support this type of venue. Why reinvent the wheel?  A wheel that already has been proven to be a flat?

 

Well, I think Cleveland would be preferred, as many have mentioned, as a joint CSU/MLS/HS Sports stadium.  But for whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be happening.  Some have alledged the city isn't insterested, some have alledged Wolstein isn't interested.  I personally don't know.

 

But I guess I am not of the opinon that Richfield was a failure.  It drew well for Cavs games, it drew well for Force/Crunch games.  It hosted other events regularly like the circus, moster truck rallies, concerts, and WWF events.  Blossom does fine and assuming the weather co-operates so do the ski places. 

 

I guess the question is if the demand for an MLS stadium is there, why isn't there more of a push to put it downtown?

 

That what I mean, you saying that Richfield drew well.  Howeve, people only went to a game, then went home.  There was no economic spin off.

 

Why did you only use Cavs games previously as a stat for the Q, yet NOW when you mention the coliseum, you mention all non team events.

 

Now, having cleared up that.  The Gund/Q, is home to four sports teams.  As well as NE Ohio's, primary host site / Location No. 1 for, events like the circus, college league championships, HS league championships, specialty events,Concerts, etc.  It is one of the busiest arenas in the country.  Why?  LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!

 

Another negative for the coliseum - Those God awful corporate loge's were the worst seats in the house - so those high priced seats went unused.  So corporate sponsorships was way low.  Something that is unheard at the Q., currently there is a waiting list for those loges.

 

Now back on topic about the MLS stadium before MayDay gets out the pruning tool!

You people spend all this time bickering back and forth but you can't take two seconds to contribute $5.00 to the UrbanOhio team for the Tackle the Tower event?

 

Shame, shame I know your name!

Haha I loved going to the Coliseum as a kid and having to stop for gas/McDonald's in the Macedonia area because it was an area in the middle of NOWHERE.

 

MTS, don't forget events like the NCAA Women's Final Four.. you think they would have played that in Richfield?  Although I'm sure Bubba's feed-and-sleep would have seen a jump in occupancy rates.. I don't think the NCAA would have gone for it.

 

Everyone is talking about how convenient it will be to the suburban families to go to soccer games in Macedonia.. if I'm a family in Strongsville it's a 60 mile round trip to Macedonia.  If I'm a family from Akron it's a 66 mile round trip to Cleveland.. AND you don't have to pay tolls unlike Strongsville-to-Macedonia.

 

I think those 3 miles each way can be made up for by the usefulness of a downtown stadium verse Macedonia.

Probably more like Blossom & Boston Mills/Brandywine are special in Summit County. 

 

So how does an enclosed soccer stadium have any comparison to a ski resort and an outdoor amphitheater?

 

That is like saying "Yellowstone National Park is special, so we should build the stadium there."

 

Not sure it qualifies as rural.

 

Parts of it.  I consider Olmsted Township rural and that is in Cuyahoga County.

 

The point is that (as MTS said) even if the Colosseum had drawn as many people as the Q the economic benefits were far less because there was no economic spin-off, while Gateway has been a huge success.  I believe a stadium shared by MLS, CSU, and HS events in the right location (near CSU) would help propel the retail aspect of CSU's college town.

 

And as far as being "just another minor stadium downtown," the Wolstein Center is a great asset even though it is a "secondary venue" to the Q.

The Convo Center (yes, that's right) is great because it allows secondary events that wouldn't be financially feasible at The Q to come to town.

 

The point is that (as MTS said) even if the Colosseum had drawn as many people as the Q the economic benefits were far less because there was no economic spin-off, while Gateway has been a huge success.  I believe a stadium shared by MLS, CSU, and HS events in the right location (near CSU) would help propel the retail aspect of CSU's college town.

 

I agree.  I've said a couple times, as have other supporters of the project, that would be best.  I guess my point is while The Q is a much greater asset than Richfield ever was, Richfield was not a failure and potentially, an MLS stadium could succeed in a growing Summit county.

 

Question is, why is anyone from Cleveland allowing this to happen?  Why isn't some civic leader from the city/county making noise about this?  Why isn't someone working on a proposal that would be more attractive than the Summit County one? 

 

I don't know the answer, but maybe that's why Summit county is growing and Cuyahoga is shrinking.

Summit county is less than half the size of Cuyahoga county and only grew 0.6% over a 6 year period.. I'd hardly say that it's booming.

Question is, why is anyone from Cleveland allowing this to happen?  Why isn't some civic leader from the city/county making noise about this?  Why isn't someone working on a proposal that would be more attractive than the Summit County one? 

 

My question, how do we know someone isn't?  

 

A lot of times with projects, there are confidentiality and disclosure agreements that keep all parties from discussing things in a public form.

Why??

 

Because the project would need significant public subsidy. Cleveland/Cuyahoga County is more focused on projects that would provide much more bang for your buck (Medical Mart/CC)

 

Notice how the developers will only do this project if there is a huge retail portion involved. They know that they could not pull it off if they tried to do it in downtown Cleveland (for many obvious reasons).

Also, it is tough for the city of Cleveland to offer Wolstein a deal that he can't refuse.  He owns cheap land right now that he could build the stadium on, and since there aren't many people around there, there are less regulations to try and force him to "play nice" with neighbors.  As long as developers and consumers ignore the inherent problems with rapidly paving over our entire country and wasting large portions of our lives in the automobile, this will continue to happen.

Just as an FYI the Gund/Q did quite well-especially during it's early years w/ no Lebron.  Up until the lockout in 99?  when the Cavs were mediocre yet making the playoffs (albeit losing in the first round year after year), the arena saw crowds around 17,000 +/-.  The early 2000s standout as years of empty blue seats but 10/14 years for that arena saw substantial crowds--especially the first 3 and last 3!  If the team attracted 11,000 when sucking, don't you think 5,000 would have driven out to Richfield?!  Probably.

 

Oh, and really, saying Summit is larger or smaller than Montgomery doesn't strengthen any point.  They are what they are.

Oh, and really, saying Summit is larger or smaller than Montgomery doesn't strengthen any point.  They are what they are.

 

Exactly, they're both the little siblings of big city counties.

 

Also, it is tough for the city of Cleveland to offer Wolstein a deal that he can't refuse. 

 

Maybe the city can't, but MLS needs to grant the franchise for the project to happen, therefore Cleveland does have some say because they can deal with MLS instead of Wolstein.

Exactly, they're both the little siblings of big city counties.

 

Not really, they're both counties housing decent sized cities that happen to be close to even larger cities/counties.  I still don't believe this justifies putting an arena in the middle of nowhere in an attempt to attract crowds from both cities (even if their suburbs have sprawled together).

 

Maybe the city can't, but MLS needs to grant the franchise for the project to happen, therefore Cleveland does have some say because they can deal with MLS instead of Wolstein.

 

What are Cleveland's options here?  Could they refuse to court the MLS if the stadium is going in Macedonia?  Or could Macedonia itself ask for a team.  Would the MLS only deal with Cleveland, even if the stadium would be in Macedonia?  Honest questions, by the way, not trying to be a smart ass. :)

My thinking is that Cleveland has no options as far as Wolstein and the MLS are concerned.  If Wolstein owns land in Summit County, wants a franchise and MLS likes the stadium, likes the ownership, what right does Cleveland claim?  They could probably even call the team the Cleveland Whatevers if they wanted to. 

Ummm well here's a real question then.. if Wolstein owns this land, wants to build it, and is ready to do so..

 

Why hasn't the MLS granted a franchise?  I mean lets get real.. if they wanted to be in Cleveland that badly.. don't you think they'd have granted the area a franchise by now?

Here's the latest article for everyone.  This was linked to a few days ago.  Basically Macedonia is stating that they won't allow Wolstein to use public funds to help build on the wetlands that he owns.  That should kill the idea of a stadium in Macedonia.

 

CHOPPED I didn't have the link for it..

^There you go.  There's always hoops.  I don't think MLS is too anxious to expand to places unless they know it is a good deal and if the stadium deal falls through I don't think MLS is wringing their hands about losing an opportunity to put a franchise in Northeast Ohio.

If you're going to use the stat of 4.5 million, that includes Youngstown, Warren, Sandusky, Canton, Ashtabula, and others.  Northern Summit County is hardly central to all those cities.  If you're going to use a stat which includes Youngstown and Warren to prove your point, then the stadium may as well go in Garretsville.

 

 

I'm not sure I have correctly used the Quote Button. Would someone give me some instructions?

 

The above quote was from jam40jeff. Actual statistics show that there are 4.5 million people within a 50 mile radius of Akron. This is, roughly, the 7th most densely populated 50 mile radius in the country. Granted, the biggest concentration of this population is North of Canton. Macedonia/Twinsburg is no longer quite as rural as some make it sound and is probably one of the fastest growing areas in N.E. Ohio. It is also north and east of Akron, making it quite central to the biggest concentration of the population in the pre-mentioned area. This may be a mute point, at this time, but I just wanted to clarify my thoughts.

 

Also, as far as our primary inner cities offering big incentives to lure this project, Akron is stretching itself to the limit trying to save Goodyear and Bridgestone, which are much more important high paying, high profile contributors to our community. they are also helping with The University of Akron's stadium and retail project. Cleveland is threatened with the same types of issues that are more important to the economic base. If we can keep this valuable project in North East Ohio without our core cities having to sell their souls, I think we should all check our egos and rally around some suburb and get the job done. The cities are facing employment and wage issues that I think they should use their money to solve, the way Akron has done concerning Goodyear. Just an opinion.

 

 

I really don't see this being an issue with any of the cities of Summit Co. unwilling to be the location for this arena.  I'd be quite surprised if any city was approached by Wolstein.  Again he happens to own the wetland that wasn't worth a whole lot.  Thats where he'd like to build it. 

 

He could make a deal with Cuy. Falls to build his soccer stadium on a redeveloped State Road shopping center.  That way it will have a unique attraction to it and thats where they want retail anyways.  Or he could tie it in with the big Goodyear retail project.  We already have insane amounts of retail options in Summit County and there are 2 major retail projects about to be started as stated above.  Plus there's various retail/office projects in development alongside Rt8 where he wants to build the stadium. 

 

One thought that just occurred to me just now is the Wolstein Group declaring that a major hospital was going to have a facility in his complex.  Akron General or maybe it was Summa just announced they are adding a new hospital in December on Rt8, South of the Turnpike.  I wonder if they were going to be that hospital.  I would bet that was it, since every other major hospital group in NEO has already built or is building in theTwinsburg/Hudson/Stow corridor a new hospital. 

 

We'll see if Wolstein has a Plan B because I'd say Plan A is cooked.

He could make a deal with Cuy. Falls to build his soccer stadium on a redeveloped State Road shopping center.  That way it will have a unique attraction to it and thats where they want retail anyways.

 

That is a great idea! Back in 2006 when the Cuyahoga Falls Cougars were playing I had suggested building an arena on the site. The idea being that the site could host the Cougars (if they were successful), hockey, arena football, or the MISL. However, this is a much better idea. Now that the plaza is being demolished, this could work quite well!

 

That is a great idea! Back in 2006 when the Cuyahoga Falls Cougars were playing I had suggested building an arena on the site. The idea being that the site could host the Cougars (if they were successful), hockey, arena football, or the MISL. However, this is a much better idea. Now that the plaza is being demolished, this could work quite well!

 

I agree! This is an idea that the right people need to know about!

Actually, though I doubt it will amount to much, I sent Mayor Robart an email mentioning this idea. The MLS would bring a lot to the community, as would an MLL team, provided an owner stepped up. Ironically, soccer-specific stadiums are pretty good for lacrosse.

 

Any idea what affect this would have on the Aeros?

Actually, I think it would have a almost no affect on The Aeros. These are two different sports with 2 different fan bases, so one will not detract from the other. However, with the new University Stadium and all of the other sporting events Akron has recently been winning, I think Akron will quickly become a sports town. It will be more of a reason for people to live in the area and more amunition to be used for the promotion of the area.

 

I also believe that this kind of excitement could even be a positive thing for The Aeros and other are sporting events.

Actually, I think it would have a almost no affect on The Aeros. These are two different sports with 2 different fan bases, so one will not detract from the other. However, with the new University Stadium and all of the other sporting events Akron has recently been winning, I think Akron will quickly become a sports town. It will be more of a reason for people to live in the area and more amunition to be used for the promotion of the area.

 

I also believe that this kind of excitement could even be a positive thing for The Aeros and other are sporting events.

 

I find myself in agreement. The Aeros, the MLS, the Zips, Kent State, and the Canton Legends (I had to mention them!) form a pretty strong core of sports.

Don't forget Labron's Three on Three, his National Marathon and New Bike Race. Not to mention The Professional Ladies Fast Pitch, which is based at Fireston Park, now! Wow! Add in the Pro Golf Tour and The All American Soap Box Derby and woohoo!!!

Don't forget Labron's Three on Three, his National Marathon and New Bike Race. Not to mention The Professional Ladies Fast Pitch, which is based at Fireston Park, now! Wow! Add in the Pro Golf Tour and The All American Soap Box Derby and woohoo!!!

 

Ideally, the team could play at UA's new digs...but it won't happen. 

 

This complex needs to be closer to Cleveland than to Akron, and Macedonia is pretty much equidistant...on a similar note, Philly gets a team...see link below.

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=512016&cc=5901