It is interesting to see people promote dense urban living, lobbying for support from those in the outlying areas to help redevelop and revitalize the urban core while chastising those same people for living in the suburbs in at the same time.  Because if I live in Macedonia and am listening to this argument about how my city (Macedonia) doesn't matter and my lifestyle has contributed to urban decay, is unsustainable, and destructive...

 

Truth hurts huh? 

 

 

Yes, it does.  And its this attidude that is the problem, not the lifestyle itself.  Because those in suburbia are living their lives (generally) as law obiding citizens yet you blame them for "ruining" society as a whole living their unsustainable, destructive lifestyles while people in the urban core are feeling entitled and shooting police officers while drinking beer in a abandoned garage.  And, oddly, their family is choosing to bury them out in peaceful suburbia.

 

Look, the urban core needs to be strengthened.  We need more jobs in the city.  I live downtown solely to support Cleveland's urban core.  Public transportation needs more attention from government, infrastructure needs to be improved, and we need to work on developing a more efficient use of resources in our major cities, but none of that is going to happen until those "urban core" minded people stop condemning those who live in the suburbs and blaming them for all of the problems of the inner city.  You are NEVER going to convince someone living in Macedonia, Strongsville, or Avon that the problems of inner city Cleveland are their fault for living an upstanding lifestyle in their quiet suburban town.  You need to stop blaming them and instead working with them towards a solution.

 

They are out most under utilized allies in this fight to rebuild the urban core and the prevailing attitude in this thread is one that is pushing them away, placing blame on them when in most cases, they are a generation or two removed from leaving the urban core in the first place.  Work together, acknowledge each's perspective and desires for quality of life and we'll be more aligned to accomplish what every one of us wants, regardless of the cause of the problem.

none of that is going to happen until those "urban core" minded people stop condemning those who live in the suburbs and blaming them for all of the problems of the inner city.

 

Come on, you're just pulling that out of your butt. Besides on here, how often do you hear someone "condemn" a suburbanite for living an unsustainable life? And why would anything change if "urban core minded people stopped condemning" suburbanites? I don't understand why that would be the tipping point to convince anyone they are living a societally destructive lifestyle. You know damn well suburbanites don't have the faintest idea why you'd want to live downtown. Freaking Lannigan and Malone argue that public transportation is for losers.

 

The real issue has nothing to do with the morals of suburbanites reflected on an individual level. It has to do with their behaviors extrapolated over larger populations, which lead to destruction to our way of life. One kid peeing in the pool won't do much but everybody peeing in the pool turns it yellow; do you want to swim in it? The real goal should be public persuasion to live a sustainable lifestyle. This to me has more to do with conveying cost efficiencies than anything else.

 

When my parents visit me in Lakewood, they always stop at a shop in Rocky River. However, this shop is relocating to downtown Hudson because the shoppers in Rocky River are drying up as the move to far-flung areas like Westlake and Avon and visit less frequently. In Hudson, this business owner hopes there is enough foot traffic and density to sustain his business.

 

Sure, it's your right as an American to live an gigantic house in Avon and drive an entirely over-sized vehicle to work in Beachwood, but why would you want to?

 

P.S. This soccer stadium is a stupid idea, and I've hated it forever. I don't believe public funding of stadiums helps the economy of a region, especially in the case of a third-tier sport aiming to locate right next to a national park. It's entirely inefficient and pisses me off.

I think it depends on how far one takes it.  Thinking that suburbanites are bad people for living in suburbia is taking it too far, and I don't condone rubbing people's faces in it personally.  But I won't apologize for my belief, which I think is well grounded in facts and solid reasoning, that suburban living is environmentally, economically, and socially unsustainable.  If someone chooses to take that belief as a personal insult, well then they're welcome to it.

"Houston has secured an agreement with city officials that has entered them into negotiations to build a soccer-specific stadium in downtown Houston..."

 

Please replace "Houston" with "Cleveland" and lets get this stadium built. I want to see MLS soccer here in this city, games vs. Cowlumbus, and all star visiting teams from England, Italy, Spain, South and Central America, etc.

 

A stadium sports complex at/near Cleveland State makes sense to me, attracting big tournaments like tennis, that are completely passing us by. And it could all mix in nicely into the fabric of our downtown neighborhoods, and help fill in that huge "vacant" feel east of downtown.

 

It seems to me that the proponents of this stadium, evidentally, saw no good reason to locate their new stadium anywhere in this region other than in Macedonia, where the land was already owned. From my understanding, no other location within Cleveland or Akron was ever seriously considered. Correct me, if I'm wrong. This tells me that the area isn't all that desireable, in their eyes, for the team, but if they could save enough money they'd be willing to try it.

 

If Cleveland wants it, they need to get off their dead ass and put together a financially interesting proposal, quickly! If Cleveland doesn't have the ability or desire to make a proposal that would interest them, then why put down a suburb because they have something to offer them; even if it is only a piece of land that is already owned.

 

This project is valuable to this region, as a whole. It will offer international exposure to the area and undoubtedly attract some additional events. These events will fill hotel rooms and people will spend money in the area. There are many intangible benefits, as well. The spin-off jobs and snowballing effect will be a healthy boost to the area, if it is successful. I trust that, as professionals, they have done the research required to determine that their selected site has the potential. A site had been chosen. The area that was chosen will be urbanized to some degree. The question is; Is it more beneficial to have a major league soccer team or more beneficial to protect the current personality and ecology of that area. In my opinion, we are not talking about a strip shopping center but a major project that the area needs. In my opinion, we build it where they want to build it and work everything else out. We don't argue about who's city or town it should be in because they want to build it there. Unless we have a better offer for them to build somewhere else. I haven't heard one. If the surrounding cities need to help out, then we help. Let's win these projects and stop bickering!

 

The suburbs are full of good people who want a good life for their families. They wouldn't move out of the cities if the cities offered the quality of life that their families deserved. Instead of blaming the burbs, the cities need to appreciate them for keeping people in the area while the cities get their act together and begin to supply the high quality of life that will draw people back in. Without quality burbs, people would leave the area altogether. They are sustaining the area. We need to appreciate that and assist in that. We all need to get along and work as a team to reinvent the inner cities, to strengthen the corp to offer a competitive quality of life so that the suburbs can be suburban and the inner cities can be attractive enough to attract and retain it's citizens and businesses. Regional thinking is good, not bad. The cities need help. The Burbs need the cites to be strong. They must find ways to work together instead of condemning each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These events will fill hotel rooms and people will spend money in the area. There are many intangible benefits, as well. The spin-off jobs and snowballing effect will be a healthy boost to the area, if it is successful. I trust that, as professionals, they have done the research required to determine that their selected site has the potential.

 

Sorry but your making statements but not showing any numbers ( ie price of land vs. a location in the city, potential/proposed number of hotel rooms and the rating of those properties, What are you defining as potential spin-off and the supporting number, etc) only stating that the potential franchise owners have done the math.

 

How many hotel rooms do you really think a third tier sports complex will support?  You can't answer that.

 

If the developer, team owners, MLS and community were so gung ho for this project....why is it still on the boards?  Another question nobody can answer.

 

Where is the cost analyst?  Downtown (with the supporting infrastructure) vs. the 'burbs.

 

What type of international exposure could an MLS team bring to Macedonia?  I'd like to hear a serious answer to that.

 

I am not making this a city vs. 'burb issue and i wish we'd get off that, I am talking dollars and cents. 

 

Sounds like what you want is a crocker park-esq soccer stadium since you state, "The area that was chosen will be urbanized to some degree."

I do not know what the numbers are. But as a Program/Project Manager in Marketing for over 20 years, I have some observations and opinions. I, of-course, am no expert on this type of project but have dealt with large marketing budgets up to $275,000.00 per month. Again, I'm no genius and this type of project would be out of my league, but for what it's worth:

 

I have been observing Mr. Wolstein and although many don't agree with his projects, he is no dummy. If he proposed a stadium in Macedonia, I do not believe he would waist his time and other resources to make that proposal without, at-least, some considerable research being done. I, of-course, don't know what the results of that research may have been. I believe that the following would have been concerns:

 

1. Population Density: Without doubt, it is well known that there are approximately 4.5 million people within a 50 mile radius of Akron, which is roughly the 7th most dense 50 mile radius in the country. A 50 mile or less drive is considered a reasonable drive for a "Special Occasion" or "Event", like a major league sporting event. Any location in the area between South Akron and Lake Erie with some eastern and western boundaries will support almost any event, as far as population goes. That is; as long as there is good access to that location and sufficient interest for people to go. Understanding that many other considerations would come in to play, as well.

2. Access to Location: I'm sure they considered that

3. Land Quality for the structure and Infrastructure: I'm sure that was considered

4. Interest: Soccer Fans (Not population). This is where I'm most skeptical. I find it hard to believe that research wasn't done on this.

5. Method of Financing: This had to be considered.

 

There are, of-course, many other considerations. But I'm just sure that this longtime professional, has done enough basic homework to make an initial proposal to see if there was sufficient interest from the community. More detailed and costly research would be done if the community showed sufficient interest, which they have not.

 

Marketing is not all about the numbers, it is also about gut instinct and common sense. If I were involved for the first time with a project like this, I would tend to shy away from Downtown Cleveland because Soccer would take a back seat to Football, Baseball and Basketball. I would need some hard data that would convince me Downtown was the best place demographically or that it was the most cost effective place to locate. I feel that Macedonia or some other centrally located site between Akron and Cleveland would generate more excitement in The Akron Area, which the team would not get from Cleveland, alone. It would be huge in Akron. It would generate intrest from Clevelanders if the name was The Cleveland-Akron___________. Cleveland being the first name. Akron would be excited to have their name mentioned.

 

Now that it appears that this community is not interested, I am interested in seeing if any other communities offer proposals or if The Site Selection Committee finds another area location.

 

Why would the area get international exposure? Soccer is an international sport. Soccer is brocasted on international TV. There will be international games with Spain, etc. These teams will occasionally visit this area. And the area will be on display.

 

How will this fill hotel rooms? I said it will help fill hotel rooms. It will help Occupancy Rates. If this was planned as a multiple use stadium, it could be marketed to attract all sorts of national and international major and minor sporting events, concerts, shows, etc. When people come to town, they need somewhere to stay. The proper restaurants, shopping and entertainment could market the area as a destination for vacationers who visit this region.

 

I would love to attract this to our area. I would support it wherever it was built, that was feasible. I just disagree with those who say that it is not feasible if it's not in Downtown Cleveland. I think it could work in Downtown Cleveland, but would actually work better in the burbs for premonitions reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear, don't tell me about marketing, I too have been don't marketing/public relations/affairs/communications for 20 years.

 

And as a fellow marketer, your spinning the potential and selling the dream.  :wink: I want to see numbers.

 

 

Dear, don't tell me about marketing, I too have been don't marketing/public relations/affairs/communications for 20 years.

 

And as a fellow marketer, your spinning the potential and selling the dream.  :wink: I want to see numbers.

 

How could I possibly have numbers? These are just my opinions based on limited information. That is all I can offer. And that is all you can offer, as well. If you want numbers you are asking the wrong person. If you want an opinion, I have one just like everyone else. At-least it is based on some common sense and experience, even if it is wrong.

 

The concept is all I can comment on and those are my opinions. When I see some figures I will have more opinions. For whatever they are worth.

Dear, don't tell me about marketing, I too have been don't marketing/public relations/affairs/communications for 20 years.

 

And as a fellow marketer, your spinning the potential and selling the dream.  :wink: I want to see numbers.

 

How could I possibly have numbers? These are just my opinions based on limited information. That is all I can offer. And that is all you can offer, as well. If you want numbers you are asking the wrong person. If you want an opinion, I have one just like everyone else. At-least it is based on some common sense and experience, even if it is wrong.

 

The concept is all I can comment on and those are my opinions. When I see some figures I will have more opinions. For whatever they are worth.

 

I'm thru with this topic.

Here's the latest from the News-Leader....looks like Macedonia is pretty much out of the picture for the time being...wonder if one of the other spots referenced here is near downtown Cleveland? 

 

Would be nice.

 

http://www.the-news-leader.com/news/article/3447602

^Thanks for the article post.  I wonder if there really is an appetite in summit county for more taxes to pay for something like this.  I'd doubt Cuyahoga county taxpayers would be up for it.

I can't see Summit Co voting for sin taxes to help build a developers stadium.  Wild guess, but I'd bet their "other" Summit Co. site is across Rt 8 from where they originally want to place the stadium. :roll:

Based on some of the economic projections, if they are legitimate and realistic, I believe that an agressive marketing campaign, which emphasizes the benefits to the community, might sell Summit County residents. I think Cuyahoga County may be tired of sin taxes. I would like to see this project somewhere in N.E. Ohio.

If Wolstein wants to build it on land that he already owns, why not put it on the land south of Progressive Field where he or his father once proposed building a new convention center.  This site has access to the Rapid and the interstates.

Does he own that?  Though Conrail owned that.

Not sure?

Akron would be excited to have their name mentioned.

 

I have no input into this discussion, except to say that this is just about the silliest thing I have ever read.  I can see the happy Akronians, "oh golly gee, they mentioned our name...and second too!"

 

Akron would be excited to have their name mentioned.

 

I have no input into this discussion, except to say that this is just about the silliest thing I have ever read.  I can see the happy Akronians, "oh golly gee, they mentioned our name...and second too!"

 

 

Even squirls deserve a nut every now and then. It doesn't always have to be a big one.

If Wolstein wants to build it on land that he already owns, why not put it on the land south of Progressive Field where he or his father once proposed building a new convention center.  This site has access to the Rapid and the interstates.

 

I think this was proposed in the early stages of the project...when Campbell was Cleveland's mayor. ..but obviously it died a quick death. 

 

As was discussed earlier, an MLS stadium located in a downtown would be truly unique to the league...as cities like Columbus and Chicago have their facilities in mundane locales.

I still think that it would be a lower level sport in cleveland but would take center stage in Akron.!.

I used to work for the company that built the Chicago Fire stadium in Bridgeview IL.  I was staffed on the project for only a short while and don't have all the particulars.  The land was owned by the Village of Bridgeview who developed the site and lured in the team. Games are well attended because the Bridgeview has a diverse ethnic population who are soccer (Futbol) fans.  I think this is part of the reason that this particular locations works here in Chicago.  The developer's land, funding, etc are all necessary to build the structure, but the fan base is what sustains the life of the franchise after the construction is complete and the paint dries. 

 

I also don't think soccer needs to be a large sport in the country and move "up the ladder" past the NHL, NBA or the two big guns; football and baseball.  I would just like to see a solid following of fans who would support a 14 to 18 team league.  Also, getting 'has beens' from Europe and south America on some MLS team (Beckham) will help sell tickets.  What fan wouldn't want to see Ronaldo or Shevchenko (both have a few years left on the big stage) playing here in the MLS.

 

just my two cents...

 

Anyway, I'm living in Chicago, but I'm a big fan of a franchise in Cleveland. 

It has been awhile since we had any rumblings on this forum. Is anything happening in Macedonia OR for anywhere else regarding this stadium. These guys are sure quiet

No, how much of this thread have you read?

i'm aware that it is all but dead in Macedonia.  But for the sake of it Why is there no formal announcement that the project is dead. What are we hanging on to?