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Saucy is progressing but There is still no resumption of work on BJ’s Brewhouse in Orange across from Pinecrest. I wonder if they’ll ever complete it

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  • eyehrtfood
    eyehrtfood

    Always good PR and great for business to have to do something like this... but just the continuing evolution of the east side.    Pinecrest is limiting under-18s (though must admit even my d

  • Very unfortunate they go the route of tearing down a building that was seemingly just built. When are these developers going to be held accountable for their negative impact on our environment. Was th

  • eyehrtfood
    eyehrtfood

    Yes. Very good, if not yet great, food on day 8 of RH Rooftop Restaurant operation last Saturday night. Place was booked solid, same for the coming weekends (I tried...) - and folks really, really dre

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It looks like they finally started resuming work on BJ’s brewhouse

Saucy Brew Works soft opening is this Thursday!

  • 2 months later...

Sweeties/Big Fun, Gracylane, and Vernacular have permanently closed. I also assume Inca Bar Cafe is closed for good as the space has been cleared out, but I haven’t seen an official announcement from the owner yet. 
 

Casper appears to be opening soon between Laura of Pembroke and 3 Palms. Construction on The Last Page is also progressing next to RED. Mattlin-Hyde Piano has also moved from Eton Chagrin Boulevard to set up shop in the former City Works space (judging by the temporary signage, I’m guessing on a month-to-month lease for now).

 

The space between Williams-Sonoma and Firebirds where Athleta might be heading is also now blocked off and is likely being worked on. 

Edited by SgtBarone

Athleta is moving from Beachwood mall? They really didn't live up to the new to market claims when they first announced the project.

3 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Athleta is moving from Beachwood mall? They really didn't live up to the new to market claims when they first announced the project.

Not quite confirmed yet but a user upthread posted about it. Wouldn’t be a huge shocker after seeing a few other retailers move from Beachwood to Orange. 

I was "dragged" to Pinecrest yesterday and was surprised how busy it was.  One level down from packed.  I guess I have never been there on a Saturday before so I have nothing to compare it to.  Maybe it was the great weather and it being Labor Day Weekend in combination with people still feeling a bit stir crazy.

I'm there a few times a month between going to the salon and the occasional craving for Shake Shack. It's usually pretty busy, even on a weekday afternoon. My unscientific observation is it has the highest traffic of any shopping center on the east side now. The Saucy Brew Works seems to be doing great business there too, and they should begin serving food before the end of the year.

My sister is a big fan of the Whole Foods there.

 

...I do miss the one by Corky's.

  • 2 weeks later...

Hot Chicken Takeover likely to surface at Pinecrest, also... Athleta confirmed via inclusion in center's marketing materials (as ia Takeover) and on Orange planning commission docs.

 

The closed Next Door does seem it could open again, despite corporate pandemic/related closures, but hard to know. It's stuck in time inside and noted as temp closed - but still on corporate site when others in chain are not.

 

Pinecrest has been surprisingly busy... Not a bunch of teens walking around, as per teen store laden Crocker, but families, adults, shoppers. 

 

The next year will weed out some more local stores, without $ to support current slower biz, and more nationals will move in...

Edited by eyehrtfood

  • 1 month later...

So I wonder if some capital was freed up at Fairmount from this transaction and will it put those dollars into the development at East 105th-Cedar?

 

 

Edited by KJP

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^That transaction is Fairmount defaulting on its mortgage and handing the keys to the lender. 

If anything it puts in question if they have the resources to go forward with the east105th development. 

19 minutes ago, Pigmeat said:

If anything it puts in question if they have the resources to go forward with the east105th development. 

 

I'm told they have nearly all of the equity for the first phase. In addition to their private equity, the federal loan through the city of Cleveland is a non-competitive loan.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Nothing I can see from public records indicates Fairmount was really in default. Even if they were technically in default, the property could still be doing just fine. I can see a developer defaulting on purpose and handing over the keys to the lender group if they think the likely sale price is close to the current mortgage amount and are just wanting to dump the property and move on. Or maybe the lender group was just interested in owning the property. I don't know much about the organization. Selling a commercial property to the lender is obviously not the most common exit strategy for a developer, but it doesn't inherently mean the property was underwater on a monthly revenue basis.

 

Obviously there could be other reasons to be worried about Pinecrest or Fairmont, but "deed in lieu of foreclosure" doesn't really mean anything for sure.

For what it worth Fairmount rep blamed it on the pandemic.  I imagine there is something to that but it is also a convenient bogey man.  I am sure other factors playing a role.

Edited by Htsguy

2 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Nothing I can see from public records indicates Fairmount was really in default. Even if they were technically in default, the property could still be doing just fine. I can see a developer defaulting on purpose and handing over the keys to the lender group if they think the likely sale price is close to the current mortgage amount and are just wanting to dump the property and move on. Or maybe the lender group was just interested in owning the property. I don't know much about the organization. Selling a commercial property to the lender is obviously not the most common exit strategy for a developer, but it doesn't inherently mean the property was underwater on a monthly revenue basis.

 

Obviously there could be other reasons to be worried about Pinecrest or Fairmont, but "deed in lieu of foreclosure" doesn't really mean anything for sure.

The only thing with it is according to everything I’ve seen the project costed $230million to build and they had it taken control of on a $171.5 million dollar loan.  That’s a 25% lost in around 2 years since opening. Not something you’d want which is why I think there was money issues. 
 

At the same time getting money for a new project that will open in a few years with the clinic and the cities backing versus getting money right now for a project that you are in default over are two different things.

@cle_guy90 A couple points on that--

 

First, I don't think we know what the development was bringing in rentwise versus what debt service was. It's possible they had over a year of nice profits and so the loss they're taking could be a lot less.

 

Second, there could be other side payments the lender is making to Fairmount for the property. It is an affiliate of the actual lender making the purchase after all. Maybe they're trying to lower the sale's transparency for tax purposes...

Plus, individual developments by the same developer are usually owned and operated in silos, owned by legally distinct affiliates. While a developer can transfer money to them to keep them afloat, its more difficult for the burden to go in the opposite direction. So if a property experiences financial troubles, it doesn't infect the parent company. And in this case, Fairmount cutting Pinecrest loose protects the parent company with even greater certainty. I'm certain his existing and future lenders welcomed the move.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

2 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Nothing I can see from public records indicates Fairmount was really in default. Even if they were technically in default, the property could still be doing just fine. I can see a developer defaulting on purpose and handing over the keys to the lender group if they think the likely sale price is close to the current mortgage amount and are just wanting to dump the property and move on. Or maybe the lender group was just interested in owning the property. I don't know much about the organization. Selling a commercial property to the lender is obviously not the most common exit strategy for a developer, but it doesn't inherently mean the property was underwater on a monthly revenue basis.

 

Obviously there could be other reasons to be worried about Pinecrest or Fairmont, but "deed in lieu of foreclosure" doesn't really mean anything for sure.

 

Whether the default already happened or was merely inevitable and imminent is a distinction without a difference. Either way, the equity investor's stake has vaporized, and one year of cash flow, if it was even positive (not at all a sure thing this early in a development) wouldn't come close to covering that. 

 

This doesn't mean Pinecrest has failed as a development or is going to go under. Just means it was a failure as a real estate investment.  Given the context, probably doesn't mean much for future Fairmount developments, beyond adding just one more data point to the well known problems that entertainment/restaurant heavy retail is facing. 

Edited by StapHanger

On 9/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, SgtBarone said:

Sweeties/Big Fun, Gracylane, and Vernacular have permanently closed. I also assume Inca Bar Cafe is closed for good as the space has been cleared out, but I haven’t seen an official announcement from the owner yet. 
 

Casper appears to be opening soon between Laura of Pembroke and 3 Palms. Construction on The Last Page is also progressing next to RED. Mattlin-Hyde Piano has also moved from Eton Chagrin Boulevard to set up shop in the former City Works space (judging by the temporary signage, I’m guessing on a month-to-month lease for now).

 

The space between Williams-Sonoma and Firebirds where Athleta might be heading is also now blocked off and is likely being worked on. 

 

Coming in late here (reading the latest Pinecrest news and getting caught up) but what a strange trajectory for Big Fun. Not sure if it was a problem with their landlord on Coventry but they should've never left that spot. Pinecrest doesn't strike me as the best spot for a cooky toy shop. Perhaps worth continuing in the retail thread, maybe not lol. 

 

Speaking of the property transfer, I haven't checked Crains yet, but does MJ/SB have any article out about it yet? I'd respect their opinions a lot more than a clickbaity Cle dot com article...

4 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Speaking of the property transfer, I haven't checked Crains yet, but does MJ/SB have any article out about it yet? I'd respect their opinions a lot more than a clickbaity Cle dot com article...

 

Yes. Crain's broke the story.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes. Crain's broke the story.

I was out of town this weekend and getting caught up to everything...thanks.

little bit of poking around ---

 

 

the new owner looks like an anonymous agency on park ave/52st  -- do they own a gehry bldg?:

 

https://www.squaremilecapital.com

 

 

they do partner with others to redevelop/expand -- lately campanile bldg in midtown atlanta:

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200130005405/en/H.I.G.-Realty-Partners-Square-Mile-Capital-Co-Originate

 

 

connected to usaa real estate in san antonio?

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/usaa-real-estate-and-square-mile-capital-welcome-two-new-members-to-the-global-investors-group-300807768.html

 

 

commentary about them:

 

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/thoughts-on-square-mile-capital

 

 

  • 4 weeks later...

Madewell is opening early next year in the vacant space between Sephora and Shake Shack. Construction is well underway. I guess that means the current location at Beachwood Place will be closing.

The reports of Pinecrest's death appear greatly exaggerated....

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^ More of that promised "New to the region" that was so highly touted I see... 

35 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

^ More of that promised "New to the region" that was so highly touted I see... 

Here's a "new to market" (read: local ego project) restaurant opening in January at Pinecrest, next to Red, and so far, unannounced by Pinecrest:

 

https://www.thelastpagerestaurant.com/

 

Edited by eyehrtfood

Pinecrest is a disaster for the east side and Cleveland in general.   This "lifestyle" center overlooking an 8-lane freeway has simply cannibalized the other two "lifestyle" centers and Beachwood Place.  Unfortunately, it could kill Beachwood Place, which could effectively leave Cleveland without a Saks.  

41 minutes ago, gruver said:

Pinecrest is a disaster for the east side and Cleveland in general.   This "lifestyle" center overlooking an 8-lane freeway has simply cannibalized the other two "lifestyle" centers and Beachwood Place.  Unfortunately, it could kill Beachwood Place, which could effectively leave Cleveland without a Saks.  

 

You're probably right... 

 

But just imagine if even just 1/3 of those retailers get recruited Downtown or to Ohio City... 

1 hour ago, gruver said:

Pinecrest is a disaster for the east side and Cleveland in general.   This "lifestyle" center overlooking an 8-lane freeway has simply cannibalized the other two "lifestyle" centers and Beachwood Place.  Unfortunately, it could kill Beachwood Place, which could effectively leave Cleveland without a Saks.  

 

If only we could have seen this coming...

Also noticed that the Scout and Molly store closed at Pinecrest I think this is the second time they’ve been in the Cleveland area they were at Westlake at Crocker park a few years ago and closed

10 minutes ago, osu87 said:

Also noticed that the Scout and Molly store closed at Pinecrest I think this is the second time they’ve been in the Cleveland area they were at Westlake at Crocker park a few years ago and closed

They are franchises, so owned independently, likely by style-lovers who may not have put 2 and 2 together about the challenges of running a business, especially in a high cost new retail center. Pinecrest went with a  number of local one-offs and franchised operations that ultimately  will make way, or have made way,  for better funded national chains.

6 hours ago, JohnSummit said:

Ever since the development of Legacy and Eton, it was plain to see the potential negative impact on Beachwood Place.  Pinecrest is just continuing the trend of nibbling around the edges.  Personally I prefer going to one big center a la Easton, but that's never going to be the case here.  While walking to my car last year at Pinecrest, I noticed a big undeveloped spot west of the main circle at 2nd and Park, that combined with adjacent surface lots to the North and South, present a large footprint for build out (center of photo attached).  Hate to say it, but I would not be surprised at all to see Pinecrest try to lure Nordstrom to jump ship from Beachwood Place at some point.

Screenshot_20201124-162632.png

A Restoration Hardware ("RH" as now known) 2-3 story gallery/mansion has been targeted for this space over the years - after originally in renderings fir Beachwood ave Richmond side expansion. New ones are 30k-40k sq ft (up to 80k+) with rooftop restaurant, etc..  and they have most major markets in their sites. They have been, surprisingly, a big success vs 10k sq ft smaller stores. 

 

New Nordstrom prototype is 140K sq ft 2 story, vs 215K sq ft Beachwood store. Indianapolis was a recent ish market where larger store closed and smaller store built in more desirable center.

Edited by eyehrtfood

  • MayDay locked this topic
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^Gee I thought Groundhog Day only occurred in the Burke Lakefront thread.  (I know off topic May Day but I couldn't help myself.)

  • 9 months later...

According to the Pinecrest website, Kitchen Social is coming in 2022 where Next Door used to be.  There is one location in Columbus on Polaris and another going in at Bridge Park in Dublin.  Looks like a quality add:

 

https://ourkitchensocial.com/

 

 

  • 1 month later...

Good to see it's something new to the region, and not just another poach or copy from Beachwood Place. Also, so nice that the Saucy location there is finally serving food now. Great pizza and wings to go with the great beer. I'll always prefer the atmosphere at the W25th location though.

  • 3 months later...
7 hours ago, eyehrtfood said:

The Restoration Hardware/RH Gallery site and building plan for 37,000 square foot "RH Cleveland - The Gallery at Pinecrest"  mansion style furniture showroom and restaurant:

 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:e7403514-1a30-337d-bde1-0cf230713aa1

 

Note the additional, not yet built buildings 12/13 shown at Pinecrest.

 

 

So they have a restaurant / lounge in their store? Interesting...

10 hours ago, eyehrtfood said:

The Restoration Hardware/RH Gallery site and building plan for 37,000 square foot "RH Cleveland - The Gallery at Pinecrest"  mansion style furniture showroom and restaurant:

 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:e7403514-1a30-337d-bde1-0cf230713aa1

 

Note the additional, not yet built buildings 12/13 shown at Pinecrest.

 

On that site plan, isn’t that the current site of Slymans Tavern? 

1 minute ago, Taller_is_better said:

On that site plan, isn’t that the current site of Slymans Tavern? 

Yes, in a previous article that was shared, they mentioned that Slymans was going into a space in the actual Pinecrest development. 

And the poaching continues. 

The project seems very similar to the Restoration Hardware / "RH Gallery" that opened at Easton down in Columbus a couple of years ago. Here's a picture I took of that development around when it opened. Next door is Arhaus's new Easton location. 

PXL_20201120_201320346.thumb.jpg.2d9a4734875051a9df6af72317625215.jpg

 

Its a shame they couldn't make this upgrade to their space or somewhere else at Legacy like Arhaus was able to with their new showroom.

New Pinecrest leasing plan below...

 

New stores and restaurants appear to include FP Movement (Free People's new athletic brand), Brilliant Earth (jewelry store chain), The Last Bar ("sushi and Pan Asian" food spot from the owners of the adjacent hot spot The Last Page), Sand Pebbles (" Ohio's Best Asian Cuisine") and a new 4 tenant building on bottom that is definitely not a relocsted Nordstrom store... yet.

 

Oh. And also a "financial Instituion" outlot which, along with the existing, inline Charles Schwab (closed Sat-Sun), should never be allowed to take shopper-dependent first floor retail space like this inline or near retail stores... It 100% kills the vibe and produces little pedestrian traffic  ...) This should be leasing 101.

 

The former City Works, empty since 2019, looks like it may be a branch of a restaurant group called Lao Sze Chaun... a disappointing no name restaurant anchor that features "authentic and delicious tasting Chinese cuisine" for a highly visible spot that wreaks of short-sighted leasing desperation from the Pinecrest team - given the 2 other similar new restaurants above and the existing Bibibop "Asian Grill." Where's the Chuy's Mexican Restaurant that was already sniffing around Chagrin Highlands... or the east side Yard House.. or the relocated J Alexander's? Or a new east side Melt, which would take advantage of that space's fantastic patio...? That space needs a big draw.

 

Hey, at least no clear poaching...

 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:91aa5a33-ee92-3c1a-958c-d79ec4d000c8

Edited by eyehrtfood

1 hour ago, eyehrtfood said:

New Pinecrest leasing plan below...

The former City Works, empty since 2019, looks like it may be a branch of a restaurant group called Lao Sze Chaun... a disappointing no name restaurant anchor that features "authentic and delicious tasting Chinese cuisine" for a highly visible spot that wreaks of short-sighted leasing desperation from the Pinecrest team - given the 2 other similar new restaurants above and the existing Bibibop "Asian Grill." Where's the Chuy's Mexican Restaurant that was already sniffing around Chagrin Highlands... or the east side Yard House.. or the relocated J Alexander's? Or a new east side Melt, which would take advantage of that space's fantastic patio...? That space needs a big draw.

 

Hey, at least no clear poaching...

 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:91aa5a33-ee92-3c1a-958c-d79ec4d000c8

The former City Works isn’t empty - it’s been the Mattlin Hyde piano store (Steinway dealership) for a bit. It moved from Eton. They seemed happy with the high visibility location. Although it is funny to see a piano store in a space clearly built out as a restaurant. 
 

Maybe they are moving into the new building?

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

Slyman's will be taking over the Oak & Embers space.

 

Also, Free People Movement and Brilliant Earth are great adds.  Both will be the first of their kind in Ohio.

Edited by SgtBarone

15 hours ago, SgtBarone said:

Slyman's will be taking over the Oak & Embers space.

 

Also, Free People Movement and Brilliant Earth are great adds.  Both will be the first of their kind in Ohio.

 

Is Oak and Embers set up to do curbside?  That's become a significant part of Slymans' business model.

Edited by E Rocc

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