Wayne development faces hurdles

Residents say Kroger may build new store

Caleb Stephens

DBJ Senior Reporter

 

A retail development planned near downtown Dayton is in jeopardy of not happening.

 

For the past year and a half, Cincinnati-based developer Midland Atlantic Properties has been contacting property owners along Wayne Avenue in an attempt to purchase enough land for a multimillion-dollar development that may include a new Kroger store, according to area residents. The new development would sit on the corner of Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street.

 

...

 

hmmm...

So that Spanish Revival building on the corner is part of a bigger picture?

 

...this developement could be a real innovative, contextual thing, or it could be just another strip center (but in an urban setting).

So that Spanish Revival building on the corner is part of a bigger picture?

 

...this developement could be a real innovative' date=' contextual thing, or it could be just another strip center (but in an urban setting).[/quote']

 

Maybe I just don't have any faith in developers, but if I had to bet, I'd say it will be just another strip center that leaves an empty building down the street. Also, if this project happens I'd guess that the Ecki building comes down, unless the Dayton Landmark Commission blocks it.

Some may contend that this belongs in "City Discussions" but I've chosen to put it here, as this is where the original post concerning this issue started.

 

 

Fighting History

Some Wayne Avenue business owners say historic district rules need to be relaxed for area to thrive

By Joanne Huist Smith

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON | Over an 11-block stretch of Wayne Avenue — from Fifth to Wyoming streets — 15 vacant buildings scar the struggling business district. Some are boarded with graffiti-splattered plywood. Others bear ''For Sale'' or ''For Rent'' signs. New ventures seem to pass by the area like the whizzing traffic.

 

Small business owners there say restrictive historic district zoning stifles growth and scares away investors who want to do more than just patch mortar on outdated buildings.

 

...

 

[No link provided.]

 

 

I'm of the opinion that the line must be held on all legitimately historical buildings. They constitute a shared cultural heritage that transcends traditional property rights. While I concede that "legitimately historical" may be defined along a sliding scale of significance, I think it prudent to er r on the side of preservation when unsure.

 

Of course I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here :)

Some may contend that this belongs in "City Discussions" but I've chosen to put it here

You are now BANNED. :D

 

I wish I knew more about the situation so I could add my 2¢. I don't know the particular buildings really at all, but I agree that preservation and re-use should be the top priority. Also agree on your take on historic buildings.

What happened with this?  Is it going to happen?  Midland's site doesn't mention it (just some suburban crap).

Haven't heard or seen a thing about this lately.

An update from the 7/15/05 DDN:

 

 

Wayne Avenue may be latest in city to get a lift

By Joanne Huist Smith and Stephanie Irwin

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON | The city's next big urban renewal project could be the southeast corner of Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street with a major grocery store anchoring a three-block deep commercial district.

 

A drug store, a Sunoco station and a Wendy's restaurant dominate three corners of the high-volume intersection. On the fourth corner is a neglected and vacant Spanish Colonial revival commercial building constructed in 1929.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/content/business/daily/0715kroger.html

 

”The area certainly seems to have substandard infrastructure. There is a burned-out building, vacant houses, vacant lots with high weeds, Essman said. “If blighted the city commission may act, at its discretion, to declare it an urban renewal area and acquire the property.    

 

The city tentatively set boundaries for the urban renewal project as Pierce Street to the north, Wyoming Street to the south, Hawker Street to the east, and Wayne Avenue to the west.

 

Well, it looks like another little local history project for me. 

 

I had some time today, and went down there and shot that neighborhood, and am researching it a bit now.  It looks like this is the old "Bachelors Alley" that is referenced in city histories.  The neighborhood was subdivided in 1870 and 1875, so some of the housing may date from the late 1870s/early 1880s.

 

Pierce Street, mentioned as a boundary in the article, covers, in part, the "city drain".  This was perhaps a natural watercourse or intermittent creek that drained the hills off of Wyoming (Ohmer Park and Linden Heights), running  evnetually to the Miami River.  It was put into an open drain, wich ran down the middle of Park Drive, and eventually covered over.  Perhaps there is a big storm sewer under Pierce that is whats left of the 'city drain'?

 

Anyway, stay tuned for a pix thread on this soon-to-vanish neighborhood sometime soon...

 

 

 

 

There has been a bit of discussion on the proposal in a thread somewhere around here... I think the article was posted by someone.

 

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your pictures, etc.!

Oh..ok, I went back under "projects and developement" and saw Grasscat had posted the full article....I recall us talking about the Eckli Building, but forgot about that other thread....that was a good backrounder and explains the context.

 

It seems Midland tried to do it the normal route, failed due to the holdouts, and now it looks like the City is going to step in and 'make it happen' as an urban renewal project. 

 

From what I found out studying that Dayton Towers effort the city can aquire the property, do the demolition and site prep, and then sell it off to private developers (I guess the recent USSC "eminent domain" ruiling is relevant here).  Actually, this would be a good candidate for a TIF as they use the TIF mechanism in Chicago for commercial development...could be the state laws are different.

 

But that is a good question....what happens to the "old" Kroger up the hill?

 

 

 

From the 9/9/05 Dayton Daily News:

 

 

Wayne, Wyoming designated as blighted

By Joanne Huist Smith

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON | Broken windows, rotting wood, peeling paint, blight in the Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street area drive developers away, according to a draft study released by the city on Thursday.

 

The study officially designates the area "blighted" and that's exactly what city officials expected to find.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0909blight.html

 

From the 11/16/05 Dayton Daily News:

 

 

Building's owner caught in red tape

City wants building repaired; owner wants it demolished

By Joanne Huist Smith

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON | Seventy-four-year old Ed Mitman can't see the logic.

 

The city of Dayton is forcing him to repair his 1929-era building at the northwest corner of Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street, even though the city is talking with a developer that wants to demolish it in 2006 to make way for a Kroger.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/1116mitman.html

 

From the 11/17/05 Dayton Daily News:

 

 

Demolition battle continues

Owner wants to destory 1929-era building, city wants to preserve it

By Joanne Huist Smith

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON — A nearly five-year battle between Ed Mitman and the city of Dayton over whether to demolish or preserve his 1929-era building at Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street will continue at least 30 more days.

 

Mitman, 74, of Greenville was summoned into Dayton Municipal Court on Wednesday to report his progress on 17 ordered building repairs. City officials say they're trying to ensure the building is structurally safe.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/1117mitman.html

 

Never did update this one....

 

 

Study labels Dayton neighborhood as blighted

City takes first step in urban renewal process

By Joanne Huist Smith

Dayton Daily News

 

DAYTON | Betty Mangold has mixed feelings about moving from her Quitman Avenue home, but fears it may be inevitable if the city presses forward with urban renewal there.

 

"With all the crime going on, I'd like to get out of this neighborhood, but I hate to leave my house. I grew up here," said Mangold, who is 81 years old.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0316citcom.html

 

From the Dayton Business Journal, 6/19/06:

 

 

Court to rule on eminent domain case

Dayton Business Journal - June 16, 2006

by Yvonne Teems

DBJ Staff Reporter

 

The city of Dayton has been meeting with residents of a deteriorating neighborhood to coax them from their properties and facilitate economic development.

 

At the intersection of Wayne and Wyoming avenues, the city wants to purchase 12 acres of land and sell the property to a developer who's looking to build a retail facility, said Gwen Eberly, economic development director for the city. City officials conducted a study in late 2005 and determined in March that the area is blighted, or so deteriorated that the city legally can take the land under eminent domain laws.

 

...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2006/06/19/story3.html

 

No kidding...thats what the article says... not just yers truely rattling on about the "suburbanization of Dayton". 

 

So they tear down a neighborhood to put in some blah strip center.  At least it goes along with the crap on the other three corners of that intersection (gas stations, suburban style drug store, and a Wendys).

 

City Seeks Proposal for Wayne, Wyoming

Suburban-style development sought to revitalize neighborhood into a bustling commercial district.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

 

DAYTON | The city of Dayton wants to bring suburban-style shopping to a neighborhood, with a large anchor store and ample parking.

 

The city's office of economic development issued a request for proposals Thursday to transform 12.25 acres at the northeast corner of Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street from aging and rundown to bustling commercial district.

 

...

 

I think there are some threads elsewhere on this site about the Wayne & Wyoming area, including a pix thread by me.

Large development sites like this are rare in a mature urban area unless it's a brownfield site, Eberly said.

 

Reading this really pisses me off because Dayton really does have some large brownfield sites that could be redeveloped into strip centers or convenience retail, particularly in West Dayton, which is really huring for something like that.  Yet those sites sit fallow while the city tears down yet more of its 19th and early 20th century building stock.

 

 

 

Generally, I think the brownfield sites in west Dayton shouldn't cater towards the "suburbanization" planners but perhaps a more natural state (for example, a city park).  Why NOT embrace the empty fields of once proud Victorians with a Japanese tea garden or simply an Olmstedian park?  Hell, Youngstown is doing it; Detroit is doing it; so why not Dayton?  Who needs a strip mall with Blockbuster, Curves, and Mo'niques?

I was thinking of examples in Chicago, like the Lawndale area, which had the old Sears Roebuck warehouses and offices.  This was in a depressed inner-city area, and was redeveloped as residential but also as a small shopping center with some basic retail for the residents.  The old Sears site was just one example as theres a lot of redevelopment of old industrial sites in Chicago for shopping

 

In the Dayton contex, the idea  is to improve quaity-of- life to some extent, having this type of shopping close in, rather than forcing people to take the bus or drive way out to the suburbs to do shopping.  I guess thats what this Wayne & Wyoming thing is too.  But it seems there is enough vacant space in the city to do this already.

 

The brownfield as city park concept..hmm...well is that is sort of what happened to the old Dayton Tire site?..it looks like a sort of a nature reserve.  I can think of a few other candidates too (McCall Printing site)

 

I suppose I wouldn't have a problem if they brought in a "suburban-style" strip mall to more outlying areas of the city (meaning, Kittyhawk or Arlington Heights) but at Wayne-Wyoming, it is a rather walkable area (besides some depressed streets) and I think a more "urban" shopping center (with on-street buildings) would work well (especially as a electric trolley goes by the damned place).

 

But hell, they already have a Kroger and Rite Aid/CVS/Whatever there now.  Alas.

....but at Wayne-Wyoming, it is a rather walkable area (besides some depressed streets) and I think a more "urban" shopping center (with on-street buildings) would work well (especially as a electric trolley goes by the damned place).

 

Exactley! 

 

 

Both from the 9/12/06 DDN:

 

 

Kroger unveils $16 million shopping center

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

 

DAYTON — Kroger and Cincinnati-based Midland Atlantic Development want to build a $16 million shopping center at Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street, provided they get City Commission approval and property owners in the aging neighborhood are willing to sell.

 

"We're very excited. This is a great opportunity for the city," said development specialist Keith Klein.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/09/11/ddn091206kroger.html

---

Past clashes with present: Proposed Kroger would remove 1929 building

Some hope that the old building's style could be preserved, but official says that's not practical.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

 

DAYTON — Historic South Park resident Karin Manovich believes a new Kroger store at the northeast corner of Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street would be a great boon to her neighborhood, but she has mixed feelings about the proposed development.

 

Since 1929, a distinctive Spanish Colonial Revival-style building has stood on that corner. If the development moves forward, the Ecki building and more than 60 homes and businesses would be demolished.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/09/11/ddn091206krogerinside.html

 

Blah.  Just replacing urban blight with suburban blight.

From the 10/13/06 DDN:

 

 

Residents, city talk about new Kroger

By Steve Bennish

Staff Writer

Friday, October 13, 2006

 

The city of Dayton hopes to reach a signed agreement with a developer by year's end for a new Kroger, a service station and retail storefronts to be built at northeast Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street, the city's acting economic development director told a gathering Thursday evening.

 

About 30 residents of the Twin Towers neighborhood came out for a project update.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/10/12/ddn101306wayne.html

 

From the 11/11/06 DDN:

 

 

Developer to detail plans for new Kroger Wayne-Wyoming on Monday

City will acquire 60 parcels needed for development at Wayne and Wyoming.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Saturday, November 11, 2006

 

DAYTON — Cincinnati-based Midland Atlantic Development will share its plans to build a Kroger store at Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street at a public meeting Monday.

 

The meeting begins at 6 p.m. in the Southeast Priority Board, 2160 E. Fifth St.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/business/2006/11/11/ddn111106kroger.html

 

From the 11/14/06 DDN:

 

 

City, developer try to calm fears about Wayne-Wyoming proposal

More than 100 seek answers about the impact of the proposed Kroger supermarket.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Tuesday, November 14, 2006

 

DAYTON — More than 100 people packed an emotionally charged meeting at the Southeast Priority Board on Monday looking for answers to calm their fears about the impact of a proposed Kroger at Wayne Avenue and Wyoming Street.

 

Businesses and homes would be razed to make room for the $12 million project slated for completion in 2008. The new Kroger, to be 76,000 square feet, is more than three times the size of the current grocery on Wayne.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/11/13/ddn111406kroger.html

 

I've been quiet about this, but I want to share some facts about this neighborhood. I really don't see why Midland and Kroger are getting so much crap about this. This is a good thing for a neighborhood that is continually going downhill. If anyone has taken time to actually drive through the residential streets instead of just looking while driving down Wayne Ave, you would understand how badly dilapidated the housing and the area has become. Crime is increasing and it is unsafe to walk around there at night. I have fixed many computers in homes in that area in the past year and it scares me. The conditions of some of the houses I've been to makes me feel like it's going to come down as soon as I step on the porch.

 

People seem so negative about another strip mall, but really, how many strip malls in Dayton are actually nice? Most of the good ones are in the suburbs and Dayton needs a good urban strip mall that's not half vacant and decaying. No one is going to do anything with those houses. They will continue to fall apart or become condemned as some of them already have.

 

A thing about the old Kroger. I used to service that store for Keebler for many years. It is small, it is filthy and it is trash. The things I have seen in the stockrooms would make you not want to shop there...from dirt to mice. It is beyond renovation, creates traffic backup on Wayne during heavy hours and the lot is barely large enough for customers even on light days.

 

This is a good thing for the area, whether or not it's an every day strip mall. It will create jobs and take down much unsafe housing. The Spanish looking building may be old, but it is falling apart too. It has been vacant for many, many years and no one has ever stepped up or offered to do anything about it. When someone comes along and wants to tear it down, then people start to whine totally forgetting they never lifted a finger to do anything to prevent it's demise.

 

I'm looking forward to this new Kroger. I think other people should too.

 

I agree with Ronnie - that area is in desperate need for development.  The "Scary Kroger" as us locals call it (or "Ghetto kroger" if that is your preference) is ok if you live nearby and need to get something quick, but not a place I'd do my regular grocery shopping.  It is simply way too small, old and outdated.

 

Normally I would be all for saving a historic structure (<a href="http://www.preservationdayton.com/Pages/Ecki.asp">The Ecki Building</a>), especially if it is making way for yet another dull and boring strip mall or big box.  But in this case I totally support the new development.  It will get rid of a dilapidated block of run-down homes and provide a new and nice place to shop.  The Kroger completes the renovation of the Wayne/Wyoming intersection (a fairly new and nicely done Rite Aid sits on the other side of Wayne), and it will provide a much needed grocery store to the residents of South Park, Walnut Hills, Twin Towers, Linden Heights, and even Oregon District, Webster Station and Downtown.  It will also give the poorer residents that live to the east a reason to take pride in their neighborhood while helping property values in the adjacent neighborhoods (South Park especially).

 

I don't know what format the new Kroger will be, but though it might be wishful thinking - I'd love to see one like they built in the Brewery District in Columbus.  My wife and I lived part-time in an apartment in German Village last year and had the chance to shop at that new Kroger Marketplace when it opened.  It was the nicest Kroger I had ever been in (a far cry from the Columbus-version of "Scary Kroger" on Livingston and Parsons) and even gave Dorthy Lane Market a run for its money as far as style.

 

Alright, while I agree with what Ronnie and Billy have written about "Scary Kroger" rightfully earning its title with its issues with dirtiness and infestations, let's not forget that it is Kroger who let the conditions deteriorate to the point where they are now.  If this were a suburban store, the conditions would have never gotten to this point.  This is the closest grocery store to my house, and as Billy said, it is really best used for the basics and not regular grocery shopping, although I sometimes do my regular grocery shopping there.

 

While I do agree that this project does have its merits--especially by providing a decent grocery store to the neighborhoods in the surrounding area (and also increasing the appeal of downtown housing), in my gut this just isn't sitting right with me.   

 

If this were truly about community redevelopment, as the city has said, I think there are better ways for true community betterment without displacing residents.  One place to start would be through stricter code enforcement--and not just by citing people, but actually following through with the problem until it is resolved.  And for those who may not be able to afford repairs, such as seniors, there needs to be increased resources available to assist them such as program like Kettering's Housing Rehabilitation Program and Rebuilding Together Dayton.

 

Also, I hate run down housing just as much as anyone else, especially when it is by slumlords and people who just don't care.  But I am empathetic toward people who are trying their best and this housing is all they can afford.  Let's face it, when the check are written for this housing, it is going to make slumlords happy and the rest of the owners will be given a check for not enough to replace their current house. 

 

I am curious as to how this is going to reduce crime.  Sure, if you replace housing with a 550 car parking lot, there is will less crime there, but that crime isn't going to just disappear, it is just going to be displaced.  If our solution to crime is to build huge parking lots, we're going to end up with a lot of parking lots around Dayton.  ;)

 

I am also confused as how they plan to accomplish this project after the Ohio Supreme Court ruling with Rookwood Exchange.  If the City of Dayton ends up using eminent domain (which it sounds like they will have to), I truly believe that the city should hold Midland Atlantic to higher standard.  It could be by incorporating the Ecki Building into the project (highly unlikely, but the site plan does show a retail building right at that corner--probably for a CVS  :lol:), holding them to higher architectural standards, or forcing Kroger to actively redevelop its former store (can you say College Hill Kroger in Cincinnati?).  It's called reciprocity...the city scratches the developer's back, the developer needs to scratch the city's back.

 

I will have to try to scan the site plan this weekend and post it, but basically it is just a large Kroger oriented toward Wayne Street with about 550 parking spaces in front of it and one or two other smaller retail buildings.  Also, the renderings of the store I saw did look nice, but I'm certainly not ready to get excited over them yet--especially as someone who will have to drive by this place twice a day, everyday.

^I agree.

 

And I don't really know the story on the Ecki building, but Ronnie's statement about preservationists "whining" rubbed me the wrong way. Dayton is filled with buildings that need to be saved, but it isn't practical to expect preservationists to finding funding or developers for all of them. I don't know the situation in Dayton either, but even in smaller Hamilton, preservation groups are working to fill and save historic buildings, but there are many obstacles, and an endless supply of buildings.

 

In most cases, the "whining" doesn't do much, but it does draw attention to the loss of a city's historic buildings, which helps alert the general public. If this building were to fall without vocal opposition from preservationists, it would be forgotten, vocalizing it at least puts the concern out there for preservation, prehaps helping save other buildings in the future. If this building were to fall without opposition, I'd have great concern for the future of Dayton, luckily some care.

^

I never said a word about preservationists whining. I was referring to the average Joe that has no idea what this building was for except a boarded-up grafitti'd structure. They have never cared what happens to this building until someone wants to tear it down and then they care.

 

With all do respect to the Ecki Building, it doesn't have much of a historical significance. No one famous came from there, nothing was invented there and really nothing important happened there. It was just an early market square that at one time even housed a Kroger store. It was converted into apartments many years ago where eventually a fire broke out and the building became condemned.

 

Believe me, I love old structures. I'm a great fan of art-deco buildings. But sometimes it's just not meant to be. We cannot save every old structure there is. If we did, there would be no progress. It was decided long ago by developers that it woould be too expensive to renovate this structure. That's why no one has done it. A few companies proposed it, then abandoned the idea. You can read more about the Ecki Building on PreservationDayton.com. As you read the article, you will see that they don't make a case on why this building should be saved.

 

As for crime, new shops and malls have been deterrents to crime. Just look at the UD area along Brown St. A multitude of new shops and restaurants have sprung new life to the surrounding neighborhoods, and crime has been on the way down in the area. It once was on the decline like the proposed Wayne/Wyoming area. The same could be said about the new Kroger plaza in North Dayton on Siebenthaler Ave. Drive thru the neighborhood across from this plaza (Klepinger Rd.) and witness many NEW homes being built.

 

It has to start somewhere. This project, if successfully done, could hopefully catapult new developments all the way down to Oregon District which is only about a mile and a half down the road. This in addition to a new US35/Keowee interchange redesign next year can seriously propel this area into something much, much better.

As for crime, new shops and malls have been deterrents to crime. Just look at the UD area along Brown St. A multitude of new shops and restaurants have sprung new life to the surrounding neighborhoods, and crime has been on the way down in the area.

 

And I would attribute that to the housing component of the Genesis Project much more than the addition of more retail along Brown Street.  Sure the retail is great and has had a positive impact on the area, but I think the investment in improving the housing has had a much more profound effect on the Fairgrounds Neighborhood.

For the Wayne & Wyoming shopping center and surrounding area, they can dust off this plan for a similar intersection further in town on Wayne....

 

 

From awhile back, my pix/maps thread on Wayne & Wyoming

 

Bachelors Alley...

 

There are some abandoned houses here, but if this neighborhood is "blighted" so is pretty much all of close-in East & North Dayton. 

 

 

 

 

For the Wayne & Wyoming shopping center and surrounding area, they can dust off this plan for a similar intersection further in town on Wayne....

 

lol...I think they more or less have.  Is that where the Dublin Pub is today?

Yes.  The Dublin pub was a gas station, too, which is what made me think of W&W, as they are proposing a gas station as part of the package.

 

Here's another version:

 

 

The scope of the W&W project is going to be a lot smaller than what they did to the Haymarket.

 

Preservation Dayton has the Ecki Building as one of their "Most Endangered".  I think they should broaden their concept and say that the "Neighborhood Commercial Districts" are one of the most endangered, as I can think of TALS Corner, Santa Clara, and Troy & Valley going the same way as Wayne and Wyoming.  TALS Corner and Troy & Valley both have deteriorating, vacant landmark commercial buildings, sort of like the Ecki in the relation to the cityscape, but different in style.

 

Another way of looking at this is that Dayton has saved two neighborhood commercial districts, W. Third @ Wright-Dunbar and E 5th @ the Oregon. Machts nichts if the other ones get torn down for redevelopment or because they are obsolete, abandoned and falling apart as two "representative examples" have been saved. 

 

I will have to try to scan the site plan this weekend and post it, but basically it is just a large Kroger oriented toward Wayne Street with about 550 parking spaces in front of it and one or two other smaller retail buildings.  Also, the renderings of the store I saw did look nice, but I'm certainly not ready to get excited over them yet--especially as someone who will have to drive by this place twice a day, everyday

 

Thanks, I would appreciate this....I really would like to see what this is going to look like, or is being proposed.

 

Kroger has doen  an "urban infill" stores before.  They did one in the Douglas Loop neighborhood in Louisville, off of Bardstown Road.  Next time I'm in Louisville I should take some pix of it as an example of what could be done @ W&W.

 

I agree with you about Dayton govt holding the developer to a higher standard at this site.  There is precendent here, too, on Brown Street, about doing commercial that fits into the streetscape or creates a walkable street, so there really is no reason not to do that @ W&W.

 

Larger size here

 

 

There is A LOT of parking, but atleast they have put a couple of the retail buildings at the street. Rite Aide is directly above Caleb (alley), correct?

Rite Aide is directly above Caleb (alley), correct?

 

Correct

Christ.

The layout is terrible. It looks like any standard suburban development. Since the City of Dayton is involved in this project, you would have thought that they could have forced the developer to do a more "urban" style of design. Why not put the Kroger store along Wayne Ave. with a parking garage on top. There is Whole Foods here in Philly on the edge of Center City like that. Another is planned that will have an underground garage.

^ As much as I would love to support that, I just can't see something like that even being close to economically feasible here in Dayton.

You're probably right, but I just wish for once somebody in Dayton would have the courage to "think outside the box". If Kroger really wants to build a store there, I'm sure the city could have negotiated some sort of revised plan; but the city is probably so happy that some kind of development is going on that they will settle for whatever they can get.

but the city is probably so happy that some kind of development is going on that they will settle for whatever they can get.

 

re: Big Box retail along I-75 where Parkside is.

Exactly. There's another opportunity to do a cool "urban" style development and instead it sounds like another set of large one story buildings surrounding a sea of asphalt. If Dayton wants to attract people they need to start doing things differently.

This is a follow-up to the thread at this link, a discussion about the eminent-domain assisted redevelopment of the Wayne & Wyoming intersection in East Dayton.  Rather than clutter that discussion thread with pix, I post them in their own thread here...

 

Dffly posted the site plan on the linked thread, and I decided to use it to gin up some alternative concepts, based on what I’ve  seen done in Louisville, and based on some older Dayton examples of working with intersections and corners.

 

 

The centerpiece of the W&W redevelopment is to put in a new Kroger.  The site plan shows a fairly conventional supermarket design, set back on the site behind a large parking lot.

 

Kroger did do an alternative to this in the Doup’s Point area of Louisville, near where Bardstown Road and Taylorsville Road come together.  This part of town was developed in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, so it sort of is a transitional area between sidewalk street-front retail and auto-retail. 

 

The Kroger tries to fit in with this context.  Here are a few pix on how they do it…..

 

Looking north /west on Bardstown Rd…there is a little Cingular store attached to the bigger Kroger

 

 

Close up at the Kroger.  Note how they break up the big-box form by varying the façade and roof line, mimicking 1920s-era commercial buildings.  Also, note they build right to the sidewalk…

 

 

What I really liked about this store is that it is a “good citizen” by providing an amenity (bench and canopy) at the bus stop (also the newspaper boxes liven up the streetscape a bit, too)

 

 

Some of the urban context, as there are stores from the 30s-40s across the street, that come right to the sidewalk, so the Kroger façade works with that context to ‘urbanize” this small block of Bardstown….

 

 

The Kroger from the other side, looking towards the stores main entrance and parking lot…and there is plenty of parking both to the side and rear of the store, which connects up with other lots behind other Bardstown  Road stores.

 

 

 

 

You might have noticed that the Bardstown Road façade has what looks like two stories, with windows on the second story.  This is a good way of working with the high floor-to-roof heights of these big boxes.  The windows just open on to the produce area inside the store, providing a bit more natural light to this department

 

 

And the rear of the store, showing how they make an effort to work pedestrian circulation out into the parking lot a bit.

 

 

And some context….coming up to the store on Bardstown road, outbound….

 

 

…and some 1940’s or early 50’s stores on Bardstown just beyond the Kroger…they share rear parking with the Kroger.

 

 

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Some other examples from Louisville of new development working within an urban context by building to the sidewalk and creating a street-wall, but still accommodating cars…

 

The first group are in the vicinity of the Kroger, on Bardstown Road.  The two to the left are in the Douglass Loop area, just a few blocks in-town on Bardstown,  showing a modified older building with an enhanced façade facing Bardstown and the rear parking.  This was probably developed in the 30s or 40s, as an early accommodation of the automobile (there are similar developments in Chicago, such as the Belmont and Central area.

 

The two pix to the right are  very close to the Kroger at Doup’s Point.  I like the Hollywood Video store with that big sign, and the Walgreen is designed to terminate the view from Taylorsville Road (though this pix is from Bardstown).

 

 

This next group are developments elsewhere in Louisville.  I particularly like this Walgreen, thought it could have worked with the corner a bit more.  Still, this is probably a good way to develop an urbanistically sensitive drugstore. 

 

The ones on the right are really relevant to Dayton as this is in a marginal, poorer neighborhood (Portland) that is a lot like East Dayton, and it is probably a fairly cheap $/SF spec building, but still builds to the sidewalk and creates a more pedestrian friendly space. Note one of the uses is a check cashing service, and the neat corner entrance development.  Very simple, but it works.  I also like that they worked a little restaurant into the building to the rear, which sort of breaks up that long sidewall.  Parking in the rear, as in most of these other examples.

 

 

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For Wayne & Wyoming I ginned-up a few blue-sky concepts on how to maybe not make this so suburban, and also thought about how to save the Ecki building façade. 

 

First scheme, and the parti diagram (which explains the design concept).  Not too happy with that Kroger, though the Wayne Avenue location is primo.,…loading didn’t seem to work right,  and maybe a long sidewall facing the neighborhood wasn’t so appealing.

 

 

Second scheme.  I like this one better.  The housing in this case would be some of that newer affordable housing that they infilling West Dayton with, some of which are reasonable interpretations of the local vernacular and fit on the little lots, while also fitting-in with the surrounding neighborhood. 

 

Buildings at various locations could be used to articulate views from surrounding streets, and also pedestrian circulation could be developed across the internal lot, permitting locals to walk to the store if they want (or send their kids on shopping errands).

 

 

This schematic looks at a revised parti-diagram using signs as a design feature, and also plays a “what-if” with that poorly-sited drugstore across the street.  This design presumes the Ecki Building (or its façade) will not be saved.

 

 

…getting more into what to do with that Rite-Aide.  This concept relocates the parking lot,  develops some mid-block pedestrian access (and acess from South Park) and reurbanizes all the open space along Wayne,  using apartments as well as possible retail

 

 

Some rough elevations speculating on how to do the facades as a mix of old and new forms, combined with some fun with the signs, using signs as a design feature.  Learning from Las Vegas, or Route 66 in that Hilltop area in Albuquerque.  Also, the Kroger façade could be broken up a bit similar to that one in Louisville.

 

 

 

And a more realistic scheme, using the same GSF for the propose retail outlots as one building, and incorporating the Ecki Building into the façade.

 

 

 

And finally some Dayton examples showing how to “turn corners”, that could be used for a revised design and Wayne & Wyoming.  The lower right hand example is at Salem and Grand, and is a good example of a saved façade, worked into a new building to the rear, which also is built up to the sidewalk.

 

 

Did you change your name?!?!