Here's the latest downtown office building that will become condos: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis - Reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The new owner of the Ingalls Building in downtown Cincinnati, the world's first reinforced concrete skyscraper when it was built in 1903, is planning a conversion to condominiums.

 

Perry Chopra, CEO of the Claremont Group, said he plans to apply for Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits for the building next year as part of his plan to convert the 15-story building into 40 to 50 condos with ground-floor retail.

 

Applications for the 12th round of tax credit funding are due March 31, 2014. The applications will be reviewed starting in April, with the approved applications announced on or before June 30, 2014.

 

Cont

The pace of residential construction downtown right now is terrific.

Awesome news! 4th street is on a roll.

Oh wow. I didn't see this coming. Nice!

Awesome news! 4th street is on a roll.

 

Perhaps the deadest street downtown right now, it'll be totally unrecognizable in five years.

^I can think of lots of streets in downtown more dead than 4th Street... but this will be a very nice addition nonetheless. Once the Pogue Garage is replaced with a grocery store and apartments, 4th Street will become one of the nicer residential areas in downtown.

4th Street is one of the best looking and most complete streets (in terms on continuous buildings without gaps) with Pogue's Garage being the only really large break in the fabric of the street. It is a little dead now, but with all these projects happening in the area I have a strong feeling that 4th is going to become one of the premier residential streets Downtown.

4th stands to be a very high-end destination for condos and apartments. I think it could also lend itself to a shopping district (as has been outlined by the current administration)

Am I right to say that 4th has really suffered form the age of the building stock?  Repurposing these buildings from office to res is thrilling.  The commercial merchants that have survived should be jumping. 

 

As I think if it, in 2016, will there be a more diverse/complete street than 4th?  It will have everything!

^It'll have high end new build residential, a grocery store, street retail, structured parking, residential conversions, and office space. It really will be a great street.

^Don't forget the Renaissance Hotel!

Where?

Oh yes! I knew I was forgetting something. We'll have visitors as well! I hadn't really thought about how exciting this area will be until this discussion. It'll help spread the activity out to new areas and bridge the gap to the waterfront better. There are some serious dead zones between 5th and The Banks.

Where?

 

In the old Bartlett Building. 

Speaking of this, I know the McAlpin's Buildings became condos(?) a while back.  How are those?

 

Separately, the West Fourth area seems to languish.  With all of the hotel rooms sprouting on 4th it sure would be nice to see that block regain some life in the form of tourist friendly restaurants, etc.

4th stands to be a very high-end destination for condos and apartments. I think it could also lend itself to a shopping district (as has been outlined by the current administration)

 

I think thats going to happen. The apartments in the Reserve are very nice and the larger condo building at 4th and Central is pretty cool.

 

The condo layouts in this building are really unfortunate. Why are the kitchens in the hallways away from the living room? Look at everything else being developed right now in Cincinnati, no one is doing this type of layout anymore... Especially not for 300-400k condos! I hope these aren't final.

The lack of designated parking will also hurt the success of this project. People who drop $300K-$400K on condos own cars and want easy access to them.

It's certainly going to be an interesting test. I'm really hoping it does well to show developers that attached parking isn't necessary but I'm not so sure. We'll see though. It'll be nice to see it repurposed regardless.

If there will be parking in the Westin Garage, that is not so bad. I have a friend who lives in the Fountain Sq condos and parking across the street at the Westin is not really any walk for him.

I am told that the conversion to residential has been scrapped and the building will remain office space.

I am told that the conversion to residential has been scrapped and the building will remain office space.

 

I would have liked to see this go residential... would have been a good market test without dedicated parking.

 

Plus there is no shortage of older office space in the CBD, especially with residential demand so high right now some buildings being converted would be great.  Specifically Ingalls Building, 4th and Walnut Center, and Tri State Building all seem like great candidates.

 

I would assume this is scrapped due to the inability to win state tax credits? I was kind of surprised by that as well due to the historical significance of the building.

I am told that the conversion to residential has been scrapped and the building will remain office space.

 

I would have liked to see this go residential... would have been a good market test without dedicated parking.

 

Plus there is no shortage of older office space in the CBD, especially with residential demand so high right now some buildings being converted would be great.  Specifically Ingalls Building, 4th and Walnut Center, and Tri State Building all seem like great candidates.

 

I would assume this is scrapped due to the inability to win state tax credits? I was kind of surprised by that as well due to the historical significance of the building.

 

I don’t think condos would work there without dedicated parking. Especially at the price point they estimated on trying to sell them at. People buying $300K+ condos will keep a car and want a dedicated place to put it.

It's right next to the Westin though, you'd think they could work out some sort of parking deal and possibly add a direct entrance.  Still, I walked through the building over the winter, and the views are great with some really nice spaces inside.  It's solid too, and the original elevator motors and switch gear in the attic is fascinating.  However, the building has only one stairwell, and it dumps you into the lobby.  That's a grandfathered in condition to the extreme, but maybe by keeping the building as office they can leave it alone.  Doing a change of use to residential would almost certainly necessitate adding another stairwell, and that would require either purchasing adjoining property to add a stair tower, or cutting away part of the floor slab on the interior, which is risky business to say the least.  One of the four elevator shafts is empty, and next to that is a large pipe shaft and another big shaft for the smoke stack.  Those could mostly (but not entirely) be eliminated in a residential conversion and then a second stair could be put in there, but it might be too tight, and there's still the problem of where it terminates at ground level.  Regardless these are some significant factors to address.

It would absolutely work with no parking as nice apartments. I agree re: condos.  In cincinnati for the near future condos will need parking. Apartments you may now be able to get away with not having it.

As of this morning there was a truck loading up everything from Brueggers and all the interior signage was being taken down. I would think they want to open up at a different location as the place was always busy.

 

A shame that this corner will be silent now.

So disappointing... What will the Bottomless Mug investors do with 5 months left in the year?!

..., the building has only one stairwell, and it dumps you into the lobby.  That's a grandfathered in condition to the extreme, but maybe by keeping the building as office they can leave it alone. ..

Wait, this 15 story building has only one exit stair?  That IS extreme.  Are there fire escapes in the back?

^ Nope.  Granted it's all reinforced concrete (that's it's claim to fame after all), and it's fully sprinkled, but I'm surprised they haven't been required to do something about it.  There may be some serious occupancy limits imposed on the building because of that, but I don't really know. 

Downtown building for sale as condo plan fades

 

A new owner may have the opportunity to redevelop the Ingalls Building in Downtown Cincinnati.

 

The 6 E. Fourth St. building is up for sale after its current owner – New York-based real estate investment firm Claremont Group – decided to end a plan to convert the property's office space into condominiums.

 

There is a call for offers posted on the 16-story, 112-year-old building and its owner is seeking replies by June 1, said Jennifer Donathan, an agent with KW Commercial Group. Donathan and Steve Penker of KW Commercial Group are listing the property and they say there's no minimum bid on the property.

 

Cont

LOL "Chopra made two unsuccessful attempts to secure state historic preservation tax credits to support a redevelopment."  More like failed to do the required documentation for the application.  Extensive as-built drawings and photography need to be done as one of the very first pieces of the application process, and I don't think that ever happened. 

LOL "Chopra made two unsuccessful attempts to secure state historic preservation tax credits to support a redevelopment."  More like failed to do the required documentation for the application.  Extensive as-built drawings and photography need to be done as one of the very first pieces of the application process, and I don't think that ever happened.

 

Why do you say LOL? The State tax credit process is highly competitive, so it's totally possible he completed a full application that was approved on its historic merits, but didn't receive the tax credits due to the limited pool of state tax credits that are available. For a building of that size, I'm sure he was looking for a very large tax credit, and the State wants to see a large economic impact (jobs and taxable revenue) for those size. I don't know anything about Chopra, but unless you have some insider knowledge it seems unfair to presume why he didn't get the tax credits.

^ I do actually.  The company I work for put together a proposal to do architectural work for this project, and at the time they said that they'd already submitted the application for tax credits, but they hadn't done any as-built documentation (that was part of our scope of work). 

^ I do actually.  The company I work for put together a proposal to do architectural work for this project, and at the time they said that they'd already submitted the application for tax credits, but they hadn't done any as-built documentation (that was part of our scope of work).

Ok... that makes much more sense. You definitely need as-built documentation.

This is good news.  Chopra was not going to be a good owner.  Brueggers left because the ownership was crazy. Hopeful someone good buys it soon.

Historic tax credits are very competitive and are sizable enough to make-or-break a project. 

 

The new Hampton Inn & Homewood Suites received 5 million dollars of historic tax credits and probably had to spend less than $500,000 to meet the requests of the historic commission.  Not a bad deal, especially since the $5 million covered between 5 and 10 percent of the total project cost. 

 

I know it was posted here somewhere, but an out of town developer wanted to purchase three buildings on or around seventh street.  After he was denied historic tax credits, he never followed through with the purchase since it wasn't worth the risk.

 

Just shows you that without subsidies it is still difficult to get a large project off the ground. However, we're definitely getting closer to the day when they won't be necessary.

Anyone heard anything on this project in a while?

 

I walk by this quite a bit and it is such a beautiful building.  It definitely is showing a lot of wear and tear.  Is it occupied at all?

The Ingalls Building is headed to auction.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/13/exclusive-historic-downtown-cincinnati-building.html

This building would be best as condos with 1-2 per floor. If the market will bear it.

Property details: https://www.ten-x.com/commercial/listing/6-e-fourth-street-cincinnati-oh-45202/1000007071/?icid=tempa38506t4id1000007071p1O1

The building's footprint is 50x100, so 5,000 sq ft per floor. With stairs/hallways/elevators/mechanicals... you probably could put two ~2,000 sq ft residential condos per floor, getting 30 condos in the whole building.

 

 

 

As long as there's a solution to the single-stairwell problem.  https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,28833.msg718279.html#msg718279 

EXCLUSIVE: Hotel developer buys historic downtown building at auction

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jun 21, 2018, 11:24am EDT Updated 5 minutes ago

 

A hotel developer has purchased the Ingalls Building in downtown Cincinnati.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/21/exclusive-hotel-developer-buys-historic-downtown.html

This is the same owner that converted the Enquirer building into the Hampton Inn and Homewood Suites. They also bought the Cincinnatian from the Lindners and are turning it into a Curio by Hilton. Will be curious to see what they do with the Ingalls building, but it only has one staircase like the traction building. Work will probably be done by Luminaut, who has done multiple projects for SREE group.

^ Instead of trying to convert this building to a hotel, why not renovate the Terrace Plaza back into a functional hotel

^ Instead of trying to convert this building to a hotel, why not renovate the Terrace Plaza back into a functional hotel

 

The Terrace Plaza needs very very deep pockets. I took a tour this past winter and the hotel tower is a huge mess. Holes in the ceiling, the weather coming down through the tower, mold associated with the project. Not to mention the department store portion needs to be redone, which means removing all the brick and replacing it. I love the Terrace Plaza but the previous owners have done a number to the building. Developer Tony Birkla from Indianapolis looked at purchasing it and making a go of the project, last I heard he walked away because of all the problems.

They are incredibly different projects. 396,000 sqft vs 600,000 sqft with huge commercial retail spaces.

 

Both are going to require almost a complete gutting of the interior and all new systems.

^ Instead of trying to convert this building to a hotel, why not renovate the Terrace Plaza back into a functional hotel

Weird comment. Seems like a false choice. Terrace Plaza is a different property, not on the market, under different ownership, with its own potential and set of challenges. I of course would love to see the Terrace Plaza renovated, and I'll also be happy if/when the Ingalls building gets renovated! No need to turn it into an either-or proposition.

Did not mean to imply either or. Just wish someone would take on that project

This project if any will be unique, because of the small footprint the building has, and the fact that there is only one staircase. SREE will have an easier time getting tax credit money though since the building has been vacant for some time now. If this were to become a hotel it will either be boutique or limited service because the building just doesn't lend itself to have a huge ROI on guest rooms.

Construction fencing went up today, and delivery of dumpster arrives next week. New owners are emptying out the building and preparing it for new construction/renovation.