February 17, 200619 yr Yeah, I am surprised how much vitriol this has created, too. And welcome to the board, Boromir.
February 17, 200619 yr And name one that has such a hideous design? thank you so you can't name one i see.
February 17, 200619 yr article and replies from well respect architecture site OMA Cooks Up Stack of Mies for Louisville Latest design by Rem Koolhaas and Joshua Prince-Ramus unveiled. Expanded ArchitectureChicago Plus posting from February 8, 2006 "I do not respect Mies," Rem Koolhas has written. "I love Mies . . . I do not revere Mies." Nowhere is this in greater display than in OMA's design, unveiled yesterday, for the $380,000,000 700 foot tall Museum Plaza in Louisville, whose upper reaches look like Koolhaas and OMA design partner Joshua Prince-Ramus took Mies' IBM and Seagram Buildings and stashed them atop a high shelf. The design is like a highrise version of the same team's Seattle Public Library, a set of three massive concrete cores around which a series of platforms are cantilevered, most strikingly in the case of the one-acre 22nd floor "island" structure that will house a contemporary art museum, which will actually be constructed at ground level and then lifted up into position. Unlike Mies, who created buildings that could house diverse functions in a uniform structure, OMA likes to break out the individual functions into different forms. At the Seattle Library, all of these forms were united by the curtain wall-facade, a continuous steel mesh of diamond-shaped windows. In Louisville, each function has its own building. At the base two separate structures, a 300 room hotel, and a tower with 150 lofts, are built around two of the cores, and have a strong visual affinity to Mies' 860-880 Lake Shore Drive Apartments. The huge "island" museum (passing resemblance to Mies' proposal for a massive exhibition hall on the site of the current McCormick Place) sits atop these buildings, with the third core rising as a sort of a concrete peg leg for balance. Set atop the museum like so many wooden blocks are two tall luxury condo towers, looking like the short ends of the IBM and Seagram, and a lower and broader office structure. looking a bit like it was carved out of the Dirksen Building, cantilevered over the edges of the museum. A free standing glass elevator structure rises diagonally, like the ladder on a firetruck, from ground level up 22 stories to the museum. One of the early models for the complex resembled a bundle of sticks held together by the museum island as if it were a rubber band, but the sharp diagonality of that concept now survives only in the glass elevator shaft - the rest is surprisingly angular and four-square. Whether the final product comes out looking cutting edge or merely cloyingly mannerist will largely depend on the quality of the curtain wall. In the illustration above, the curtain wall is darker, with a distinctly Miesian ambiance. In other renderings, the curtain wall shows up lighter and spikier, more like that of the Seattle Library. In one sense, the Louisville project seems almost quaint. In contrast to Chicago projects like Trump Tower, where half a million gets you a starter unit, Museum Plaza's luxury condos start at $400,000, and the prices of the lofts top out at $275,000. The Louisville Courier-Journal has extensive coverage of the project on its website. http://lynnbecker.com/repeat/louisville/louisville.htm replies: Post a Comment On: ArchitectureChicago PLUS "OMA cooks up whole stack of Mies for Louisville" 3 Comments -Show Original Post Collapse comments Jason266 said... That is an interesting design. Louisville is such a progressive and artsy city, I'm not surprised that a design like this is proposed down there. 8:39 AM Edward said... The part about lifting the art museum up into position reminds me of when they lifted the roof of the New National Gallery in Berlin (by Mies) into position. 7:55 PM Edward said... Forget about reading about it. See the incredible video at: http://www.museumplaza.net/video_qt.html 11:30 PM
February 17, 200619 yr well i guess Ohioans just have different taste then folks in Louisville. But regardless of what you think about the look, this building will still by far tower over everything else in the Ohio Valley, and probably reign as the most mix-use tower in the Ohio Valley. Aren't you the one implying insecurity issues? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 17, 200619 yr I still don't understand what you are trying to say. But if I think I know what you are getting at, all my comments are tongue-and-cheek. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 17, 200619 yr ^I was talking to neo...., not you ColDay. Those comments he posted, he omitted the bad one.
February 17, 200619 yr i'm still waiting for someone to name a building that has all the featuers museum plaza :)
February 17, 200619 yr Thank God, none. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 17, 200619 yr i'm still waiting for someone to name a building that has all the featuers museum plaza I'm implying that I'm glad we don't have any buildings in the "Ohio Valley" that have the features of Museum Plaza, as I don't want a giant replica of the aftermath of 9-11 in any skyline (okay, so it would do well in Tulsa...). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 18, 200619 yr Oh, I'm sure. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 18, 200619 yr he doesnt have anything to do with 911 colday is saying it looks like the world trade center falling over... i'm not personally a big fan of the way it looks, but congrats louisville.
February 19, 200619 yr this building adds nothing to the character of the Louisville Skyline. This tower does not fit into the skyline at all, even if one does like it, i cant change the opinions of those who love it, but i just does not look like it fits into the characteristic of this city. What, if any historic values does it borrow from. Should we just put such a futuristic building in a city, that in my view is a nice southern city, with a historic architectural character. this tower would fit more to me in Europe or in New York or Chicago or maybe even Denver or Houston, but it does nothing to add to this skyline, it instead takes from it, robbing it of a characteristic that I have come accustomed to. I can understand how some one can be glad that a sixty story office tower could be built, i would to, if it was Cleveland, but I would beg, ask and plead for a redesign if they proposed this in Cleveland. Must i remind people of the World Trade center competition. Most of those towers had this type of futuristic look, and all of them were turned down with much criticism. The general public did not like them, and the feeling is that the same fate awaits this tower. There are many towers going up today that add to their skyline. Look at the Comcast center in Philadelphia, The Shanghai World finance Center, The empire world towers in Miami, these towers among many have been design with rave reviews by most and have been well recepted by the public. It has been obvious in this forum to me that this tower will become nothing more than a drawing on a wall some where. Any architecture firm can do better than this and this great city deserves a much better addition to their great skyline in my opinion.
February 19, 200619 yr oh yeah, i forgot, i still hate it and thinks its ugly and i can do much better!
February 19, 200619 yr It has been obvious in this forum to me that this tower will become nothing more than a drawing on a wall some where. Any architecture firm can do better than this and this great city deserves a much better addition to their great skyline in my opinion. well we are ohioans lol...its not like a bunch of people on this forum are going to be jumping out saying they like the fact that Louisville will have the tallest scraper in the ohio valley...or second if you count pitt
February 19, 200619 yr I doubt that many of us care about that. And yes, Pittsburgh is in the Ohio River Valley. It is the start of the Ohio River Valley.
February 19, 200619 yr But you represent Louisville, so really, you "care" since you are either from or represent Kentucky. Generally, no one really cares about this project's impact on the Ohio Valley besides people personally familiar with Louisville. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 19, 200619 yr i was bron and raised in Cleveland, and attend Spalding University. more facts, and a new rendering of MP. Louisville's skyline got a virtual shakeup a little more than a week ago when the design for a radical 61-story skyscraper was unveiled. Museum Plaza, slated to be completed in about five years, is a residential, commercial and museum complex being developed by Louisvillians Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson, with developer Steve Poe and attorney Craig Greenberg. http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/SCENE05/602190341
February 19, 200619 yr ok, colday here is your comparison i'm still waiting for someone to name a building that has all the featuers museum plaza I don't want a giant replica of the aftermath of 9-11 in any skyline (okay, so it would do well in Tulsa...). he doesnt have anything to do with 911 colday is saying it looks like the world trade center falling over... thats really stupid comparison dude.
February 19, 200619 yr You know, it actually kinda does look like the aftermath of 9-11, with that big dust cloud representing that box thing on the left; and the remaining tower representing the other one. Uncanny. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 19, 200619 yr But you represent Louisville, so really, you "care" since you are either from or represent Kentucky. Generally, no one really cares about this project's impact on the Ohio Valley besides people personally familiar with Louisville. Ok, then explain to me why this project has garnered EIGHT pages of discussion on this website? Why has it had the basically the same dialogue in the Midwest section over at SSP? Why has this project been mentioned in publications from far off places such as Barcelona and Seoul. I suppose all of these places are full of people 'personally familiar' with Louisville? Contrary to what you may want to think, a lot of people are very interested in the impact this project will have, not just those in Louisville.
February 19, 200619 yr Thank You! I wish people from all over the Ohio Valley could just appreciate this tower, and come to love. But obviously some won't, but I know for fact not everyone in the Ohio Valley thinks its ugly.
February 19, 200619 yr I agree with the "nobody cares"camp. Nobody--at least nobody in this thread--seems to care about the supposed impact of this tower on the Ohio Valley. There is no impact on the Ohio Valley any more than there is an impact on anywhere else. Nobody cares that Louisville will have a taller building than Cincinnati. Nobody is jealous that this building will have a museum or a park or Santa's workshop or will be filled with candy. That doesn't mean that nobody cares about the building at all. Clearly people are interested in the building, mainly for its design, and perhaps they're also interested in what it means for Louisville. But what they're not interested in is what it means for the whole Ohio Valley, because it doesn't mean anything for the Ohio Valley!
February 19, 200619 yr i was bron and raised in Cleveland, and attend Spalding University. That was my sisters alma mater. A very urban "campus". @@@@@@@@ I spent some time walking around the site and vicinity and visting the exhibit this weekend.... ...but thats not for this board. This is Urban Ohio, and the discussion i want to have on this building belongs eleswhere.
February 19, 200619 yr well if you look around the architecture section there is news about NYC, and other cities not in OHio..plus the mods moved the thread in here.
February 19, 200619 yr i never said anything about cincinnati.I know, it's just the most obvious example of another Ohio Valley city.
February 20, 200619 yr i have a fealing if no one cared this thread would be on the bottom of the page with the only replies being my updates.
February 20, 200619 yr thats like a bunch of people saying they don't care about watching the all-star game, and then sitting down and watching the all-star game........oh yeah, its time to watch the all-star game lol bye
February 20, 200619 yr But you represent Louisville, so really, you "care" since you are either from or represent Kentucky. Generally, no one really cares about this project's impact on the Ohio Valley besides people personally familiar with Louisville. Ok, then explain to me why this project has garnered EIGHT pages of discussion on this website? Why has it had the basically the same dialogue in the Midwest section over at SSP? Why has this project been mentioned in publications from far off places such as Barcelona and Seoul. I suppose all of these places are full of people 'personally familiar' with Louisville? Contrary to what you may want to think, a lot of people are very interested in the impact this project will have, not just those in Louisville. God, my sig line is so true. A). I said nobody generally cares about it's IMPACT on the Ohio Valley. B). It's generated 8 pages and I'd venture 7 of them are bashing the poor tower. C). This is an architecture forum component of this site. It's meant to start/generate discussion. D). Read before you post, next time. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 20, 200619 yr So people don't care, but still take time to bash it? i see lol what am i supposed to read before i post?
February 20, 200619 yr So people don't care, but still take time to bash it? i see lol what am i supposed to read before i post? A). Is your name Vertigo? B). Again, we don't care about it's IMPACT ON THE OHIO VALLEY. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the Jenga. C). We discuss New York buildings so I don't see why we can't discuss this. D). Bashing, critiquing, praising, it's all a form of opinion (tongue-and-cheek or not). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 20, 200619 yr necro, I meant that nobody gives a damn that it will be the tallest in the Ohio Valley. I would have thought that would be obvious from the initial context, and especially from ColDay saying it point blank multiple times. It should be, unless you're just here to create arguments for the sake of it. Of course that isn't why you're here, right?
February 20, 200619 yr Well, some have asked so here it is ...a bunch of site pix, plus some pix from the exhibit itself, with amature architecture criticism by me. Aside from the building, Cincinnati posters might find it interesting to compare how different the riverfronts are...Louisville & Cincy....as they probably where a lot more similiar in riverboat days. This is the Main Street frontage. The diagonal elevator will start behind these buildings, or similar ones. The exhibit was in the taller bldg. to the right, with the arched windows. North on 7th, towards the river and the site...floodwall just visible to the left. Fort Nelson Park, a small "vest pocket park" is off the pix to the left. Rear of Main Street buildings, and floodwall. Brick wall at the end of the alley is probably a stair tower from the Kentucky Center for the Arts concert hall. Just north of the floodwall, looking west. Parking lot is used for the science museum. Framework is for a high tension line crossing the river. Elevated freeway visible to the right, behind the parking. Just north of the floodwall, looking east, towards the Muhammad Ali Center, which was just recently completed. Note the Ali Center is raised up on a parking garage....This facade of the Ali Center has a big mosaic mural of "The Greatest" in various poses. Floodwall and rear of Main Street buildings...and drive to the Ali Center, I guess. This was taken from the pedestrian bridge to the science museum, over an connector to 7th. Note how 7th Street drops down to the left, towards the river, under an old railroad bridge...there used to be an elevated railroad along the river. The parking lot was part of the the old Central Station complex, AKA the 7th Street Station, which was torn down due to freeway construction in 1971, I think..... A bit of history...two pix of Central Station..it was the orginal home of Actors Theatre before demolition (final production was Death of a Salesman in May 1972)....This was the passenger station for the Illinois Central, Monon, and B&O...& I think the Big Four, too. Looking west from the pedestrian bridge..floodwall, power line structure, backs of buildings, and the 9th Street interchange flyovers in the distance...probably originally railyards supporting the 7th Street Station. Present day site of Central Station, parking lot under I-64, with the Ohio River in backround. Standing atop the old riverfront railroad grade, looking towards the site. Under the freeway again looking toward River Road, which is at a lower level ..River Road at this location is very flood-prone End of River Road, turning into 7th Street, going under abandoned railroad bridge.... Final view of the site...7th Street sliding down below the railroad grade to the bottoms along the river. Now for some not-so-good pix from the exhibition. Site constraints...the pink arrow is 7th street & River Road...the green space to the left is the Riverfront Plaza and Belevedere (original design by Constantine Doxiades, opened in 1972..first attempt at public space along the river), with the KY Center for the Arts to the rear. Then the yellowish brown complex is the Ali Center, and the floodwall snaking around the rears of the Main Street buildings.... Flooding constraints, and the relocation of the floodwall closer to the river... Site concept...from right to left..Riverfront Plaza, Ali Center, Museum Plaza (yet the connection between the Ali Center/Museum Plaza and Riverfront Plaza could have been designed better, I think). Parking & vehicular/pedestrian circulation. Another site concept graphic. The connection between the park/parking west of 7th to Museum Plaza isnt convincing to me. It seems like the wayfinding from this parking area to MP isn't thought out...or the path is to Ft Nelson Park to Main Street and one walks along Main to the entry to the diagonal elevator? Another larger view. What I like about this is that they develop a connection from Main to the Ali Center as well as to that diagonal elevator. And a few shots of the model from various angles, concentrating on whats happening at the ground level. This is an interesting shot...shows that the siting of this wasnt that random..notice how they arrange the towers to keep the view down 7th Street clear, that the axis of Sevnth continues between two of the towers. Good shot showing how Museum Plaza is integrated with the Ali Center. The visiblity of a mosaic mural of Muhammad Ali on the Ali Center facade was a driver for the placement of the towers, too Realignment of 7th Street & some sort of tenous connection w. Fort Nelson Park. The plan is unclear how that is going to work. Overview showing how Ali Center/Musueum Plaza does not work too well with the Riverfront Plaza (which is really the landscaped top of a parking garage). Sort of a missed urban design opportunity, So now lets look at the building....and really the thing to look at is the 20th level island... Section..the lower legs are going to be the aparments and "lofts", the cube is offices, & the upper tower is going to be a hotel, I think. Something like that. Close up...some interesting things happening in the section. The gallery looks like a very high double height space, but there are floors inbetween too...all this in a sandwitch between a top and bottom floor. Floor plan. Museum is the lighter color, but there are bands of program between the "open" musuem spaces (including maybe dark galleries and a theatre...a bit like MOCA in Chicago) Two collages...showing how they insert a health club/pool into the museum area And, finally, an early concept..the Death Star on the Ohio
February 20, 200619 yr That's one of the things that turned me off about the Louisville waterfront besides the elevated highway: the parking lots. Granted, many cities have parking lots on their riverfront but that was unfortunate (though the area east of downtown seemed more park-like (the skateboard area). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 20, 200619 yr The one thing I like about those parking lots is that it seems much easier to park in Louisville's downtown than many other cities.
February 20, 200619 yr It may be easier to park in a downtown with an abundance of parking lots. However, that does not make it good for the downtown.....garages are a much more efficient use of the valuable land that is located within a downtown. Not to mention surface lots just suck :x
February 20, 200619 yr I don't understand why this topic is drawing so much attention on UrbanOHIO :wtf: There's a great argument about it on SSP, in the Midwest region. That seems a more appropriate place for all this.
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