yes I did sign up to bash this ugly building, so what. you cant do anything about it. My freedom of speech is protected by the constitution. Im new here so when I see some thing else that i want to talk about I will, but I just had to roast this ugly building and I did it 4 times and I loved it every time and I am going to continue to express my opinion on this project and any other one that I dont like. And IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT, TO BAD, BECUASE IM KEVIN RAY AND THATS ALL I WILL EVER BE.

**cheers**

"My freedom of speech is protected by the constitution. Im new here so when I see some thing else that i want to talk about I will"

 

This is the forum at urbanohio.com - and your freedom of speech is subject to the rules of the forum. You do not have any constitutional right to be a member of this forum - you and every other forumer are here because you are bound to the rules of membership. While I don't like the new Louisville building either, I would hope that you have more productive input planned.

yes I did sign up to bash this ugly building, so what. you cant do anything about it. My freedom of speech is protected by the constitution. Im new here so when I see some thing else that i want to talk about I will, but I just had to roast this ugly building and I did it 4 times and I loved it every time and I am going to continue to express my opinion on this project and any other one that I dont like. And IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT, TO BAD, BECUASE IM KEVIN RAY AND THATS ALL I WILL EVER BE.

 

i didn't say i didn 't like it...i love it...i'm just saying don't ridicule people for signing up to show support for the building if you're not going to ridicule those who sign up to bash it.

Who's up for deleting the whole thread and starting fresh? Purge this baby!

yes I did sign up to bash this ugly building, so what. you cant do anything about it. My freedom of speech is protected by the constitution. Im new here so when I see some thing else that i want to talk about I will, but I just had to roast this ugly building and I did it 4 times and I loved it every time and I am going to continue to express my opinion on this project and any other one that I dont like. And IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT, TO BAD, BECUASE IM KEVIN RAY AND THATS ALL I WILL EVER BE.

 

Let's all sing together now: "And I'm proud to be an American, 'cause at least I know I'm free.."  :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :drunk:

I can't stand the typical ignorant phrase "it's a free country" or "the first ammendment gives me freedom of speech".  You have to have certain restrictions to freedom. Even if you are allowed to express your opinion, you're still subjected to criticism and can look like a dumbass.  So be prepared

Who's up for deleting the whole thread and starting fresh? Purge this baby!

Delete? No.  Lock?  Perhaps.

 

I'm not in favor of ever deleting anything except spam or outrageous trolling.  It's too much like rewriting history and makes me want to stick it to The Man. :shoot:

 

But I wouldn't mind seeing this thread die by being locked.  Then we could start over with a recap of the legitimate information and constrictive discussion in which we'd all be on our very best behavior!  (Dammit, where's an angel smiley when you need it?)

i thought i made the thread? seems like its been taken over somehow ;)

anyhow...i wish people could understand that this is supposed to be more than just a normal verticle skyscraper. This will be Louisville's Eiffel Tower. ITs not supposed to look like any other skyscraper, just like the Eiffel Tower doesn't look like any other structure...unless you count that counterfit thing in Vegas lol This will be the new trademark of Louisville, if not Kentucky

you guys said no more MP theards untill it breaks ground...well, its abou that time

 

----------------

West Main buildings to be razed for Museum Plaza project

By Marcus Green

The Courier-Journal

 

Four buildings on West Main Street dating from the mid- to late 19th century will be readied for demolition starting Monday, the first sign of activity on the Museum Plaza skyscraper.

 

Developers plan to incorporate the historic facades of the buildings at 615-621 W. Main St. as an entrance to a pedestrian promenade and retail corridor.

 

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...EWS01/61110034

 

 

they really need to tear down 1800's era buildings? there is no place else in louisville to put up a building? that seems absurd.

they arent tearing them down, they are gutting them and keeping the facades....and why do people only care about abandoned buildings when they are about to get torn down?

This isn't so much ground breaking, but rather site prep...McMillan Park had the site prep started on well over a year ago guess what...still no ground breaking.

 

Wake me when this transformer ACTUALLY starts to grow!!!

hahaha you're comparing this project to the McMillian park project?

they arent tearing them down, they are gutting them and keeping the facades....and why do people only care about abandoned buildings when they are about to get torn down?

 

not so fast, they are only keeping four. it says, "Under a deal with Louisville Metro Government, the developers will lease the buildings, reinforce the facades and demolish the rest of the buildings." that means at least that somethings coming down.

 

but the bigger issue is why is it people who have a block full of historic 1800's era buildings that have been vacant for less than ten years think no one would ever care about them and that they should therefore be torn down? again i ask, there is no where else to build a new building in the city?

 

....uhh...they aren't building the skyscraper were those buildings were. the spot were museum plaza is going is an empty parking lot.

 

the only thing you see of these buildings anyway are the front facades, and thats what they are keeping. you don't see the back of the buildings, unless you are looking from above, or in the alley. when museum plaza is built, the front of the buildings will look the same, the only difference is, they will be an entrance to museum plaza.

And I'll also note that the buildings in question have been owned BY THE CITY for the past 6 years, so if someone had been injured from these falling bricks, that it would have gone right back to the city to pay up.

 

Hideous, no matter where it goes.

they're building a new building in a parking lot....so therefore they have to tear down a block of old historic buildings? wow, can you dig a deeper hole?

 

since the newspaper seems to agree with this loopy louisville logic, oh well, tear'em down then -- what do we care?

actually, they are building it on a parking lot and over an old intersection which will be redirected. they aren't tearing the buildings down in the sense that they are just going to leave a flat mess left behind. they are going to take out the body of the buildings and save the fron facades....example

 

 

like the article says, the facades will be the front door to museum plaza.

 

 

as, you probably know...this has been done numerous times with very historical buildings all over the country.

Its often called a "facadectomy," and preservation guru Donavan Rypkema calls it "...Halloween preservation—saving the mask and throwing away the building."  Its almost universally condemned by anyone with the slightest respect for the past.

 

Here's a National Trust article on facadectomies...http://www.nationaltrust.org/Magazine/archives/arch_story/042602.htm

 

Thomas/presOhio

 

 

There was a pretty good example of saving the facade and gutting out and pretty much reconstrcuting the building behind it, further west on Main Street..the Lousiville Science Center (its a kids musuem).  I think that won an honor award from the AIA.

 

The buildings on Main Street really don't have much spatial value once one gets behind the facade, as they are just large, deep open floor plan spaces.

 

you guys said no more MP theards untill it breaks ground...well, its abou that time

 

Yes, thanks, but I don't see why you bother posting here as its just flamebait for this online community...the people on this board neither like this building, nor really care if it goes up or not. 

 

 

Pee Wee's Playhouse meets Chernobyl meets Dom DeLuise gasping his last breath in a bubbling tar pit.  I'll restate that the only way this is going to work is if 2 or 3 similarly bonkers buildings are also built in town nearby, then it'll be like Dubia or Vegas by-the-river or something.  Louisville now needs to become the totally bonkers river city or be the river city doomed forever as that place with that one totally awful building from 2008. 

wha??? was that like a riddle or something?

but i still think it will draw people to the city from all around the world. whether or not they come to see it because it is outrageous, or because its one of a kind, really doesn't matter.  i'll definatly drive back and forth from Cleveland to see it.

I'll spell it out this way instead.  Imagine taking every drum, stick, and cymbal out of your high school marching band's storage closet, carrying it all up to the top of the highest stairwell in the building, and then dropping them down the stairs all at once. 

how about this......build a drum that has never been built before, and get one of the best brightest drum builders to do it. How many drum enthusiast, would pass on a chance to play that drum?

^Good attempt at analogy, but this particular drum sucks ass.  You don't even have to play it to know how bad it sounds.

 

What a horrific looking building.  It kinda seems like the architect was going for "Ford Rouge Meets Robocop".  In any event, the scale is so out of whack, that alone makes it a terrible building.  This is a structure meant for postcards, and not a building to be enjoyed by people on the street.

 

Professionally, I dislike the use of the term "facadectomy", as it implies a transplant of the facade, which is the element that actually remains.  I prefer to use the word "facadeomy", since what you're doing is going in behind the facade and gutting the building.

 

 

but you haven't experienced it...thats the point...and i doubt anyone would not want to experience it just because "its ugly"....which is only one opinion of the building. but a picture is one thing, standing next to it when its lit up at night is another.

but i still think it will draw people to the city from all around the world. whether or not they come to see it because it is outrageous, or because its one of a kind, really doesn't matter.  i'll definatly drive back and forth from Cleveland to see it.

 

Well if a city (any city) were to construct the world's largest building that replicates a penis...it too would draw people, but is it for the right or wrong reasons??  I know I would drive down to Louisville to see the world's largest penis replica bldg.....I can envision it now: "WOW what a rediculously stupid idea, just look at that damn thing!!!"

but you haven't experienced it...thats the point...and i doubt anyone would not want to experience it just because "its ugly"....which is only one opinion of the building. but a picture is one thing, standing next to it when its lit up at night is another.

 

The building is completely out of human scale.  How good of an experience is it going to be?

 

I've been to the Renaissance Center in Detroit.  This isn't any different, right down to the last dehumanizing detail.  In my professional (and personal) opinion, most of the buildings designed by rockstarchitects are utter crap--they're meant to be stand-alone works of artistic expression, not real buildings that people use.

from the renderings, i see no place where they are going to incorporate old facades onto a minimalist modern building like that. now if somehow they truly are....double jenga. lol!

 

Louisville now needs to become the totally bonkers river city or be the river city or be doomed forever as that place with that one totally awful building from 2008. 

 

well...it has that other totally awfull building from 1984 (or not).

 

Well if a city (any city) were to construct the world's largest building that replicates a penis..

 

Too late, Berlin did it with the Einsteinturm, back in the 1920s or early 30s.

 

The building is completely out of human scale...

 

....it is a skyscraper, which by definition are out of human scale.

 

... How good of an experience is it going to be?

 

Pretty cool if one rides a glass enclosed escalator or elevator to the 20th floor art musuem with panoramic views over the city and river.

 

've been to the Renaissance Center in Detroit.  This isn't any different

 

Quite different.

 

It kinda seems like the architect was going for "Ford Rouge Meets Robocop"

 

More Miesian than Khanian, I think...though I can see the Charles Scheeler thing going on there...

 

they're meant to be stand-alone works of artistic expression, not real buildings that people use.

 

That is correct, architecture is a form of art, but not environmental scultpure.  Which is what makes architecture interesting as there is always that tension between the constraints of program (the "use" part of architecture) and form, or program generating form, but also context as a constraint...which is pretty much whats happening with this building, as it is very program-driven, but on the ground floor, with the entry and in the arrangement of the towers, it is driven by context to some extent.

 

As for the Main Street/facade aspect that is one of the interesting parts of the design, which I am interested to see how it is developed.

 

Here are some pix of another set of buildings on Main Street, a block away, which where used as a test design in 1983 as part of a series of adapative resuse proposals generated by the local preservation group at that time.

 

This example illustrates that these builidings dont really read as three-dimensional buildings from the street, but as a set of facades, with the "architecture" coming from variations in detail, height, fenestration, etc.   It is more a street of fronts rather than a street of buildings.

 

 

 

The interiors really have minimal articulation, perhaps via skylights and lightwells (which, in the case of the pix, wouldnt meet fire code).  Also, old freight elevators would be a technological feature of historic note

 

 

The proposal was to pretty much really rework the interiors, so what is behind the facade is not that relevant to the facade..the long thin lots between the bearing walls are really what are generating the form of these designs...in fact the buildings are pulled back from the facade, creating a sort of courtyard.  There are a few real-life examples of this on Main already.

 

 

 

The Musuem Plaza and Ali Center sites in relation to Main Street, on a 1983 map of Main Street. The proposal here is not to tear down the entire block but use the interiors of these buildings as an entrance to the MP and Ali Center.  This is a lot different than the Rennaissance center, which really doesnt have any mediation between itself and the surrounding city.  In this case entrance to MP is via a traditional urban street scape and the facades become a sort of proplyaeum.

 

 

In my professional (and personal) opinion, most of the buildings designed by rockstarchitects are utter crap

 

Agreed.

 

This is a real good observation, and the ironic joke here is that the clients wanted a "name brand" building, 'Koolhaas/OMA', but got something by Price-Ramus instead...not "The OMA New York Office", as Ramus split with Koolhaas and OMA shortly after this building was unveiled.

 

So!  Does this devalue the building as it is not by a starchitect?  It is not "name brand" anymore...

 

Interesting question about this whole culture of "name brand" (which goes beyond design) and 'trophy buildings'...just becuase a city has "a Ghery", or "a Caltrava", or "a Eisenman", or "a Koolhaas", does that make these buildings that good? Are they all equally of high quality? 

 

To be honest this deconstructivist school leaves me a cold.  There are some individual buildings I like from this school, but they are ones that have constraints imposed by the site, or are really clever ways of addressing issues with program.  I'm not sure I really like MP yet, but I am more appreciative of it, since I tend to like the Koolhaas/Hadid approach more than the Eisenman/Ghery approach to decon. (though two of Eisenmans Ohio buildings are his best & I really like those..Wexner Center and the Columbus Convention Center...I really get a kick out of the Convention Center)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if a city (any city) were to construct the world's largest building that replicates a penis

 

Barcelona almost did...how about the world's largest dildo?

 

^What I am trying to say is that if someone decided to build the most obsurd/obnoxious bldg ever...it would get many people to visit it out of shear curiosity.  MP may very well one day (if built) get many visitors, but is it for good...or bad??

Quote

The building is completely out of human scale...

 

....it is a skyscraper, which by definition are out of human scale.

 

Not true at all.  There are many skyscrapers that don't impose their will on a barren landscape devoid of life.  Have you ever been to the Empire State Building?  Terminal Tower?  Heck, even the John Hancock Building in Chicago, as tall as it is, is more humanizing than this POS. 

 

 

^nice point...I have to agree with Danin on this one.

But you do have to realize that the 23rd floor of this tower will basically be a public plaza...meaning anyone who wants to go up can do so....free....you have to pay to go up in many skyscrapers. like jeff said, the elevator is connected straight to main street, so it will be easily accessible.

 

I don't see any reason why people will not come from all around the world to see this building. the design, may not be liked, but curiosity will draw people. I don't see how anyone in their right minds who love skyscraper, will pass up a chance to come look at this building...even if they are coming to confirm that it is "ugly." but i think the wow factor of seeing it in person, and going up that elevator will change their mind quick.

But you do have to realize that the 23rd floor of this tower will basically be a public plaza

 

In a privately owned building, no less.  I'm sure it will also have all the charm and uniqueness of your typical suburban Target store.

Public Plaza on the 23rd floor?? Who had that bright idea? Plazas do well because people stroll through them on their way to another place or stop there to sit because its easy and convenient.

 

Necro,

 

I've never seen anyone on this forum who is so fanatical about one (and only one) project. Are you the developer?

well it will be on the 22nd floor not the 23rd..oops...and the building is called "museum plaza" lol the public plaza its self will be one acre, so i'm not sure what all will be in it, but the view of the city alone will be well worth the trip up IMO.

necromantical, I think you're still buying into the perpetuation of the "Bilbao Effect" that Gehry's design accomplished for a sleepy industrial port town in Spain. Sure, there may be a boost in tourism for Louisville but you're really stretching it if you think millions of people the world over will make some pilgrimage to see this project. Sure, it will add a significant structure to the skyline and serve as a nice observation deck. But with Bilbao, you had the backing of a world-reknown art museum putting their efforts behind what was at the time a building design that shattered most peoples' ideas of what architecture should be. Museum Plaza is certainly different but people won't be standing at its base or in the public plaza and wonder "how on earth did they manage to build this?". They won't be wondering how the structure itself manages to stand up. They are still saying that about the Bilbao Guggenheim.

 

The problem with having a beautiful public space in a building like this is that given modern security concerns, I seriously doubt one will simply be whisked up the escalator/elevator at their leisure. Most insurers would drop that notion in a heartbeat - so obviously there will have to be security stations to pass through at street level. That alone creates a hindrance to pedestrian flow which contradicts how public plazas become vibrant spaces.

A different perspective:

 

The problem with having a beautiful public space in a building like this is that given modern security concerns, I seriously doubt one will simply be whisked up the escalator/elevator at their leisure. Most insurers would drop that notion in a heartbeat - so obviously there will have to be security stations to pass through at street level. That alone creates a hindrance to pedestrian flow which contradicts how public plazas become vibrant spaces.

 

of course there will be security..its a 300+ million dollar skyscraper, the owners will want to protect their investment. But the fact that the Ali center is right next door and that the elevator is connected directly to main st. leads me to beleive attendence will be great.

 

Even with the 9-11 attacks, attendance at the Empire State Building observatory deck has only increased. So, i think people will be going in great numbers to the museum and public plaza in MP.

 

but on a side note....i can remember going to the observatory deck on the Carew Tower in cincinnati last year , and the only person there was a little lady to take my five dollars lol.....no security..

This building is no ESB, and Louisville is no NYC.

This building is no ESB, and Louisville is no NYC.

 

Yep, i know. But high security won't stop people from going to observatory decks, regardless the city.

MayDay, you just don't get it.  MILLIONS of people the world over are going to spend their vacations in Louisville to visit this observation deck.  Do not attempt to deter them!

maybe they just saw it while driving down the interstate and decided to check it out lol...... :?...but speaking of tourist, just today it was announced that the  Ali Center in Louisville has been honored with the 5-Star Award for Best New Attraction by the North American Travel Journalists Association.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...and it doesn't hurt that the Ali Center and MP will be connected :)

 

Even if Museum Plaza does become heavily visited--it still doesn't excuse crappy design.