I walked through yesterday at 6:30 and everything was closed.  It didn't seem like there were any vacancies on the side I walked through though.

 

Most of the spaces have been leased at no cost or very little cost I believe. This is in hope that some of these places will make money and eventually be able to pay rent. It's also in hope that a more active space will attract new tenants who can pay, and the non paying tenants would be easily kicked out.

 

I didn't know rent was that steeply discounted, but could be. Most UOers probably already know this, but an enlightened developer (Dick Pace) took a master lease of all the retail space which provides some certainty to the building owner, while Pace's financial resources presumably afford him some freedom to experiment with tenants. The other key ingredient was a competitive grant program by the Charter One Foundation which seeded several of the new retail (sub)tenants.  Money well spent, IMHO, especially if some of the tenants take hold and longer term.

@downtowncle

 

Have you been to @5thStArcades lately? @FreshWaterCLE features the great new retail that's opened in 2013: http://t.co/GRiIKzkxGd

Does it typically take a really long time for a certificate of occupancy for a small business? I saw on Coquette Patisserie's FB page (https://www.facebook.com/coquettepatisserie?ref=br_tf)  that they are bursting to open and have all other papers in order but are waiting for the city to issue a certificate of occupancy. Is this something that's usually lagging behind all other efforts? Hate to see a small business ready to go so close to Xmas with customers who want to patronize the shop but something like this holding them back.

 

They still haven't been able to open. I think I saw they they were originally hoping for November 2013. City Hall is looking really bad.

Are we sure the certificate is all they really need?  And do we know why the city hasn't issued it yet? 

Are we sure the certificate is all they really need?  And do we know why the city hasn't issued it yet?

 

From what I see on twitter and facebook it appears that way.

 

 

From Dec 18th

 

"We were told that the permit would arrive on Monday (16h), only to find out when it didn't that there was a bottle neck at City Hall. "

 

And

 

"Ironically, we've had our health permit and liquor license - both of which are contingent upon passing a building inspection – for weeks. We just can't get The City to give us the physical Certificate of Occupancy. Heartbreaking."

 

 

Does it typically take a really long time for a certificate of occupancy for a small business? I saw on Coquette Patisserie's FB page (https://www.facebook.com/coquettepatisserie?ref=br_tf)  that they are bursting to open and have all other papers in order but are waiting for the city to issue a certificate of occupancy. Is this something that's usually lagging behind all other efforts? Hate to see a small business ready to go so close to Xmas with customers who want to patronize the shop but something like this holding them back.

 

They still haven't been able to open. I think I saw they they were originally hoping for November 2013. City Hall is looking really bad.

So they've been waiting at least 3 weeks for the permit?  Ridiculously unacceptable..  This is something that should be available via drive-up window.

Has anyone contacted Joe Cimperman?  He gets paid $70,000+ a year.  What does his office have to say about the hold-up?

Has anyone contacted Joe Cimperman?  He gets paid $70,000+ a year.  What does his office have to say about the hold-up?

 

He was tweeted on the 18th and responded with "on it"

Has anyone contacted Joe Cimperman?  He gets paid $70,000+ a year.  What does his office have to say about the hold-up?

 

What difference does it matter how much he is paid? Do you have any idea what his or any council members' day-to-day schedule is like? You can criticize him and others for their judgment, ethics or whatever, but you cannot criticize any of them for the amount of work they do. Spend some time with a council member and then tell me what you think. Maybe volunteer to answer the phone for a council member for a day. I suspect you will answer more calls for them in a day than you get at home in a year.

Has anyone contacted Joe Cimperman?  He gets paid $70,000+ a year.  What does his office have to say about the hold-up?

 

What difference does it matter how much he is paid? Do you have any idea what his or any council members' day-to-day schedule is like? You can criticize him and others for their judgment, ethics or whatever, but you cannot criticize any of them for the amount of work they do. Spend some time with a council member and then tell me what you think. Maybe volunteer to answer the phone for a council member for a day. I suspect you will answer more calls for them in a day than you get at home in a year.

 

Joe Cimperman seems like a hard worker who generally cares. Im not sure if that can be said about all of them though.

This isn't even in Cimperman's ward, why would he be of assistance?

I didn't realize where this place is. I see it's at 11607 Euclid Ave. How did Cimperman's name get sucked into this? This is Ward 9, Councilman Kevin Conwell......

 

http://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/ward-9/

I'm sure the poster looked at the thread name and assumed it was downtown which is Cimperman.

This is Ward 9, Councilman Kevin Conwell......

 

http://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/ward-9/

 

Is Kevin Conwell a good councilman? I have never really heard anything about him. Its good he's not getting into trouble like other pathetic councilmen, but I also never hear of him doing anything good.

I have interviewed Conwell a few times as he chairs council's Safety Committee. Not the most personable guy in the world, but he asks tough yet thoughtful questions of the administration, police chief, fire chief, etc. in committee meetings.

I'm sure the poster looked at the thread name and assumed it was downtown which is Cimperman.

 

Correct.  Thanks- and I thought it was a safe assumption for this thread... but if this is in Conwell's ward, then I digress.

 

Has anyone contacted Joe Cimperman?  He gets paid $70,000+ a year.  What does his office have to say about the hold-up?

 

What difference does it matter how much he is paid? Do you have any idea what his or any council members' day-to-day schedule is like? You can criticize him and others for their judgment, ethics or whatever, but you cannot criticize any of them for the amount of work they do. Spend some time with a council member and then tell me what you think. Maybe volunteer to answer the phone for a council member for a day. I suspect you will answer more calls for them in a day than you get at home in a year.

 

KJP- I respect your viewpoints on many issues.  But... for serious? ;-)

 

 

I think I've had some experience with council members... maybe just a little... while empowering residents as a direct-action community organizer at a local non-profit. Whether it was the demolition of 40 vacant and derelict properties along with the condemnation of close to 100 properties in the Mt Pleasant and Union-Miles area between E. 116th and the E. 140s, the arrest of drug dealers and the removal of guns off the city's streets, or the public humiliation of slumlords on the southeast side... working with council members and appointed officials and holding them accountable is something I believe in.  They get paid to represent the citizens, and to find solutions to issues which arise in the city. 

 

So my question was in regards to a business waiting over three weeks for an occupancy permit; however, since it was in Conwell's ward, I guess it doesn't matter for this thread (though his office phone should be blowing up by now about the issue).  A bottleneck at city hall regarding occupancy permits is not a good thing, obviously, and affects business openings in Uptown (and Downtown).  What's the reason for the bottleneck?  Should someone be held accountable?  Is waiting three weeks for an occupancy permit in one of the hottest areas of the city acceptable?  It doesn't seem like it should be.  But if folks think it is, then we'll just have to...

 

     

OK, can we get back to Downtown, and the retail needs thereof?

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

 

That's a nice list. After a bit I thought i've decided the world headquarters of Rock and Roll should have a flagship guitar/musical instrument store.

Then you oughta know better, Oldmanladyluck. Like I said $70K isn't much pay, especially for what council members have to do.

 

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

 

That's a nice list. After a bit I thought i've decided the world headquarters of Rock and Roll should have a flagship guitar/musical instrument store.

 

I concur. And clothing shouldn't just be specialty/gift shop clothing like the CLE Clothing store or a Rock Hall store. Give me a City Target -- please!!

^A City Target -- 80,000 to 100,000 square feet.  This illustrates my point about the request of the Planning Commission to the developers of the apartments at East 18th and Euclid for street level retail.  We have enough 1,000 to 4,000 square foot retail capable locations on Euclid Avenue.  What we need is an anchor tenant that will satisfy a significant level of demand.  Then the specialty retailers will fill in the smaller spaces to meet the more specialized requests.

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

A Department Store

A Barney's New York!

 

But those are "successories" that will come as residential population increases in Downtown and the adjacent neighborhoods.

^ hear! hear! the focus should continue on building the downtown population. then more retail will come. its getting there.

This article on the Heinen's grocery store speculates on the future spin-off retail potential from this store...

 

http://www.ohio.com/news/heinen-s-hoping-to-transform-downtown-cleveland-with-new-grocery-store-1.460519

This article on the Heinen's grocery store speculates on the future spin-off retail potential from this store...

 

http://www.ohio.com/news/heinen-s-hoping-to-transform-downtown-cleveland-with-new-grocery-store-1.460519

 

From the article: "We’ve received a great deal of support and encouragement from the business community and residents. And now all kinds of retailers are beginning to express an interest in coming downtown,” he said. “It’s already impacting other decisions.”

 

Say what?  Please be specific Mr. Marinucci... :)

 

 

I never understood the concern over the lack of parking. If the focus is creating a walkable downtown why are people so concerned about that? It seems like a contradiction to me.

I never understood the concern over the lack of parking. If the focus is creating a walkable downtown why are people so concerned about that? It seems like a contradiction to me.

 

It's like an addiction. They don't feel they can live without it. When they do, it does seem awkward at first. But soon they realize life is actually better without that crutch.

“With grocery stores, you look for 25,000 population to move into an urban area. That’s when you have the critical mass,” he said.

“You’ve got the population, you’ve got the concentration of workers. So with 25,000 downtown and another 10 or 15 [thousand] in Ohio City, now is the time.”

 

We have 25,000 people? I wonder what is the radius he is using to get that number. Last time I checked I the population was about 15K.

He's referring to residents and workers combined.

He's referring to residents and workers combined.

 

Doubtful. There's a heck of a lot more than 25,000 residents and workers combined

 

From 2012: http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2012/06/downtown_cleveland_remains_a_m.html

 

I never understood the concern over the lack of parking. If the focus is creating a walkable downtown why are people so concerned about that? It seems like a contradiction to me.

 

Well if you want suburban shoppers, even if they walk from store to store they have to get down there somehow.  They don't see transit as a good shopping option for numerous reasons.

 

As is mentioned above, it will become less important if the residential population increases.

I never understood the concern over the lack of parking. If the focus is creating a walkable downtown why are people so concerned about that? It seems like a contradiction to me.

 

Well if you want suburban shoppers, even if they walk from store to store they have to get down there somehow.  They don't see transit as a good shopping option for numerous reasons.

 

As is mentioned above, it will become less important if the residential population increases.

I don't really bank on suburban shoppers because there are other Heinens closer to them than downtown and it's already difficult to get them out of their suburban bubble now. I bank on most shoppers being from Downtown to Ohio City on the west and all the way to University Circle on the east (To give an alternative to Constantino's).

I never understood the concern over the lack of parking. If the focus is creating a walkable downtown why are people so concerned about that? It seems like a contradiction to me.

 

Well if you want suburban shoppers, even if they walk from store to store they have to get down there somehow.  They don't see transit as a good shopping option for numerous reasons.

 

As is mentioned above, it will become less important if the residential population increases.

I don't really bank on suburban shoppers because there are other Heinens closer to them than downtown and it's already difficult to get them out of their suburban bubble now. I bank on most shoppers being from Downtown to Ohio City on the west and all the way to University Circle on the east (To give an alternative to Constantino's).

 

Misunderstood you.  I thought you meant downtown retail in general.

i would love to see a fun and interactive whole foods like this new one on the gowanus in the flats or on the warehouse lots, or better yet in midtown where i think it would fit in better:

 

http://nypost.com/2014/01/25/at-the-gowanus-whole-foods-hipsters-can-flirt-drink-beer-and-paint/

t

i would love to see a fun and interactive whole foods like this new one on the gowanus in the flats or on the warehouse lots, or better yet in midtown where i think it would fit in better:

 

http://nypost.com/2014/01/25/at-the-gowanus-whole-foods-hipsters-can-flirt-drink-beer-and-paint/

t

 

This would be amazing on one of those WHD lots.  Would be easy to build parking as a part of the structure, so win win for everyone.

^ yep, it definately works for the downtown austin whole foods hq too.

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

 

I'd be shocked to see a used bookstore open downtown.  For the most part, those are "hobby" businesses someone does because they enjoy it.  The internet has hit them as hard as the new bookstores, if not harder.  The out of print stuff us bibliophiles used to search those for can be found there.

 

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it will take someone who is both bibliophile and dedicated urbanist and willing to eat the rent differential between downtown and the typical suburban strip mall.

Except that a pop-up retailer can get a storefront rent-free for the "incubation" period.

Except that a pop-up retailer can get a storefront rent-free for the "incubation" period.

 

How long is that, typically?

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

 

I'd be shocked to see a used bookstore open downtown.  For the most part, those are "hobby" businesses someone does because they enjoy it.  The internet has hit them as hard as the new bookstores, if not harder.  The out of print stuff us bibliophiles used to search those for can be found there.

 

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it will take someone who is both bibliophile and dedicated urbanist and willing to eat the rent differential between downtown and the typical suburban strip mall.

 

The last used bookstore store that I know of in downtown Cleveland is the Old Erie Street Bookstore at 2128 East 9th.  Based on the reviews, I'm guessing the owner just opens by appointment and sells most of the inventory through his web site.

I know I'm not a moderator, but can we get back on topic?

 

So far I've seen folks post that there is a need for retail stores in the following product categories:

Clothing

DIY Hardware

Office Supplies

Used Books

 

Any other categories?

 

I'd be shocked to see a used bookstore open downtown.  For the most part, those are "hobby" businesses someone does because they enjoy it.  The internet has hit them as hard as the new bookstores, if not harder.  The out of print stuff us bibliophiles used to search those for can be found there.

 

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it will take someone who is both bibliophile and dedicated urbanist and willing to eat the rent differential between downtown and the typical suburban strip mall.

 

The last used bookstore store that I know of in downtown Cleveland is the Old Erie Street Bookstore at 2128 East 9th.  Based on the reviews, I'm guessing the owner just opens by appointment and sells most of the inventory through his web site.

 

The Book Rack used to be a chain in high visibility locations in Parma Hts and Southgate.  It's now one small store, on SR 82 in Sagamore Hills.  Limited hours during the day.  The owners (husband and wife) and one other employee.  I suspect that's the model for these stores these days.  Low overhead, focus on the collection because that's their passion.

 

How long is that, typically?

 

Don't know. Perhaps a website for 5th Street Arcades, the St. Clair-Superior CDC, or the Shaker Heights incubator might give some info.

Another retail space is opening up.  The University Lofts Bookstore at 2020 Euclid Ave. will be closed in late May or early June.  This is the one run by Barnes & Noble College Stores.  They also run the stores at CWRU and Tri-C.

I truly hate to say it, because I love Cleveland and what I see happening downtown, but Cleveland's demographic trends ironically combine with downtown's residential renaissance to thwart retail.  Take a look at the population numbers: 1980 - 573,822; 1990 - 505,606; 2000 - 478,403;  2010 - 396,815.  The City has lost nearly 200,000 people since 1980, and all these class-B office conversions, which are fantastic, are symptomatic of that loss.  Spaces that used to be filled with desks are now large apartments, which are often single occupancy.  Not too long ago, the East Ohio Gas building, 660 Euclid, the old National City Bank building and the Huntington Building were full of workers.  Now they are empty or are undergoing residential conversions.  I simply can't see any retail comeback until a great number of affluent residents offset the dramatic loss of transient workers. 

 

Great info! Think about how the Ameritrust tower once had several thousand office workers packed into it. Now it will several hundred residents and hotel guests in it. True, that's better than it sitting empty for nearly 20 years because it's no longer viable as an office building. But if we measured the retail purchasing power of people within the Ameritrust tower as an office building or as an apartment/hotel tower, the office workers' purchasing power wins because there's more of them. And that's before we measure the disposable income of its occupants. So it may take several 20-story apartment towers to equal the same retail purchasing power of a single 20-story office tower.

Not sure I agree with this logic. I am much more apt to make several retail purchases near to where I reside versus work.  Maybe it is just me but I never have time during a work day to shop and then I typically go straight home.

I can see it both ways, but a tower full of residents who are present 24/7 has to be somewhat more valuable than office workers who get downtown at 8 and leave at 5 and don't come back on the weekend. Right?

I think what we're realizing is that having a mix of residents and office workers is best for any micro-economy. Here's a question: Despite the additional office workers in the 80's, would you rather be downtown late at night now or then? The general sentiment is that residents are more likely to shop where they live.

^In the 1980s, the population living within a couple miles of Public Square was almost definitely much larger than it is today, and downtown sidewalks far more crowded for most of the day.  You may be right that there was less night life downtown back then, but that seems like a really narrow point of comparison.

 

Really, though, I don't understand the point of this discussion.  There's no need to choose between apartments and occupied office space.  No office tenants are being turned away by all the conversions- vacancy for Class A/B space is still plenty high, and we've been building more new office space downtown than new (as in ground up) residential space.

No one is choosing between apartments and occupied office space. But we are trying to understand why these former office buildings, now being re-occupied but with residents, haven't led to a meaningful revival of downtown retail.

^Gotcha. I read the post by Gruver you quoted too literally.  I suspect the shifting downtown retail landscape also has a lot to do with changes far beyond downtown's borders, too. Given the rise of online shopping and the constant expansion outward of the region's population, I'd guess that the share of regional retail spending that took place anywhere within 10 miles of downtown has declined dramatically since the 1980s.