i dont think that there would ever have been a Constantinos on W 9th, or a showplace Heinens going locating on Euclid Ave without DT residents

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

The Macys (formerly Famous-Barr) in downtown St. Louis closed last year. And who is this "we"...?  :roll:

 

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

Do note that CVS recently extended their hours till 10PM every day of the week. So that's probably a good sign. I think having Euclid filled in from public square to playhouse square should help attract more retail, but that's still probably 2 years out.

^In the 1980s, the population living within a couple miles of Public Square was almost definitely much larger than it is today

 

Are you sure about that?

Guys this downtown retail discussion rarely touches on one thing...Tower City.  We have something that not a lot of city's our size has. And it's been open for about 30 years now. I understand it's not everyone's idea of urban retail but it has been successful. If you took those 50 + stores/food court locations/various restaurants/ 11 screen theatre and spread them out in the CBD this would be a whole different thread. Not to mention two hotels/a casino/and a transit center. I know and I agree the roster of stores is not what it once was ( http://www.towercitycenter.com/directory ) and the hours suck but it often gets overlooked. I know people who don't even know it's still open!  Yes ForestCity could do a much better job of bringing people thru the doors, with outdoor directory's, a marquee for the theatre, retail signage on the outside of the building. So many areas missed. I hope somewhere at ForestCity they are hard at work trying to bring in better choices.  It obviously needs to be updated but let's not forget about it.

^^Nooo, I'm sure all that's needed are 25,000 people in the vicinity - who cares about things like household income, spending habits, etc. ;-)

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

 

The 25,000 number is industry standard for how much population is required to support a typical chain grocery store.  Of course even grocery stores are going to look at more detailed data than that in their actual location decisions.  A department store requires many, many more people in it's retail catchment area than that.

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

 

Always glass half empty with you isn't it? And you might want to talk to St. Louis about that Macy's.  Things are happening in Cleveland. Perhaps you missed them.  Retail takes time to follow development, but it will happen. Do you understand how retail operates? The city doesn't just demand that CVS or 7-11 open up and, poof!, it happens. THEY have to be interested in opening in Cleveland and interest from national retailers has been increasing.

For the record the CVS on Euclid opens at 7 and stays open until 10. Not really early.

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

 

Always glass half empty with you isn't it? And you might want to talk to St. Louis about that Macy's.  Things are happening in Cleveland. Perhaps you missed them.  Retail takes time to follow development, but it will happen. Do you understand how retail operates? The city doesn't just demand that CVS or 7-11 open up and, poof!, it happens. THEY have to be interested in opening in Cleveland and interest from national retailers has been increasing.

 

Ah, maybe you need to take time and try reading before gunning from the hip.  :wink:

 

For the record the CVS on Euclid opens at 7 and stays open until 10. Not really early.

 

Excellent.  When I visited last year, it was 8p.

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macys dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite Is it simply that were just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVSs that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

Maybe they just do better attracting their locals into the city to shop.  Not sure.  Cleveland has had a bad track record as far as retail goes in the past 25 years.  Can't fault them for trying.  Tower City essentially failed in time.  The Galleria had a short run.  All the department stores went out of business throughout the 80's and 90's. 

 

My point is, I don't think 25k downtown population number is an industry standard for all cities, but I do think it applies to Cleveland.  Cleveland has always had a hard time attracting people downtown to shop.  The entire game changer is a mixed use development on PS that could change everything.  it would wipe out the 25k number being a necessity.  I would bet thousands on the fact that relevant national retaliers would line up to move into it.  It would provide them with the floor plats they need, and the visibility they want.  Without question, complete game changer.  DT Cleveland will never be complete without a project here moving forward. 

Im no expert on the subject but there are a few things that I think might have hurt/still hurt the retail scene in Cleveland.

 

 

1. Not a lot of retail spaces. If you really look at downtown, only a few streets have buildings with ground floor retail space (Euclid, Prospect, Warehouse District, and a few others). The majority of downtown is taken up by large office/government buildings with no ground floor retail space, parking garages, and parking lots. Even Euclid lacks retail space from East 6th to East 9th which cuts up the activity and kills spill over.

 

2. Indoor retail space. Cleveland has a lot of it. Tower City, the Galleria, The Arcade, Huntington and Old Huntington, and the 5th Street Arcades. Although many of these are dead now, they were once active and allowed for retail space on the street to be abandoned and/or demolished. Additionally Cleveland lacks an existing retail street, even if it was filled with Tower City like stores. This is largely due to our indoor retail space. If these stores were all on Euclid creating a more urban shopping experience, other retailers would be more likely to move in and over time replace the lower end retailers. This is happening in Philadelphia.

 

3. Lack of smaller buildings. This kind of goes with the first point, but Cleveland lacks smaller buildings which are wide enough to only accommodate one retail space and only go up to about 5 floors. These buildings almost always have retail space due to economics and the owners are probably more aggressive in renting out the space due to the retail space accounting for a large part of the buildings income. If you look at a lot of city's retail streets this type of building is what you typically see.

St. Louis is a smaller core city, has fewer downtown residents and has less activity, restaurant, theatre, sports, etc, than downtown Cleveland.  Yet, they have a city-block size, anchor Macy’s dept store.  But every time talk of a major department store in Downtown Cleveland arises, even when discussing a Target, the magic formula/baseline figures, like 25,000 downtown residents needed, before such a store can happen here.  Why?

 

… and St. Louis is one of several examples I could cite… Is it simply that we’re just not committed enough to downtown retail?  It seems that may be the case.  Our downtown also has no 7-Elevens, no Walgreen's and just a couple CVS’s that close early.  The supermarket aspect is coming along nicely, but what about such regular retail?  Tons of people are living and/or coming downtown these days, but they barely have anywhere to shop … besides the sparse offerings in TC, of course.

 

Maybe they just do better attracting their locals into the city to shop.  Not sure.  Cleveland has had a bad track record as far as retail goes in the past 25 years.  Can't fault them for trying. Tower City essentially failed in time.  The Galleria had a short run.  All the department stores went out of business throughout the 80's and 90's. 

 

My point is, I don't think 25k downtown population number is an industry standard for all cities, but I do think it applies to Cleveland.  Cleveland has always had a hard time attracting people downtown to shop.  The entire game changer is a mixed use development on PS that could change everything.  it would wipe out the 25k number being a necessity.  I would bet thousands on the fact that relevant national retaliers would line up to move into it.  It would provide them with the floor plats they need, and the visibility they want.  Without question, complete game changer.  DT Cleveland will never be complete without a project here moving forward. 

 

Tower City IS that mixed use development (shops, restaurants, hotels, office towers, now casino) and it hasn't failed.  As someone mentioned earlier its not everyone's cup of tea, but it hasn't failed.  City Center in Columbus failed and is a park now.  TC overshot the market bringing in Gucci and the like 20 years ago, but today it serves the people who shop there, mostly bus and rapid riders.  Since all bus and train routes come here it's easier for transit dependent people to get here than to any other mall in the area, so good or bad this is the market and we have the stores we have.  In many ways I think of TC like the "shopping areas" attached to subway and train stations in NYC or Chicago or Philly...with a food court, local urban clothing stores etc.  And I'm actually OK with this, this is a market that needs served.  Downtown is the hub of everything, and should have shopping for everyone.  I'm willing to accept TC, as a rail hub, will be a lower scale shopping center.  That just means we can check that off the list of needs for the city

 

Now with that said, as the downtown and surrounding areas increase in population and income, the demand for better shopping will continue to increase.  As it does I think first local retailers will infill the smaller outdated storefronts along Euclid and Prospect.  As the market improves and is proven national retailers will want in, and I think this will finally push forward development on the warehouse district lots, creating the type of mixed use area you're talking about. 

 

I think we have retail downtown, its just not complete and does not serve everyone.  If things pan out like I hope they do, building on present momentum, then I think we'll have a downtown with retail for everyone within the next decade.

^Not by a long shot.  It is indeed mixed use, and one of the BEST mixed use developments in the country, esp given its direct rail connection... You're right, TC probably shot too high re Gucci and trying to land a Neiman Marcus, and, yes, there are some 2nd rate joints in there, but it's no different (and a little better) than most downtown malls in terms of diversity of stores (Brooks Bros. soldiers on).  And the fact the casino is drawing many more people into the area can't hurt -- btw, wasn't Gilbert negotiating to buy TC?  Did he do so?  ... I lost track.

Yes to continue to refer to TC as a failure is ignorant. The 100 or so doors that opened this morning at TC may disagree with you. Again as I mentioned above it's not perfect but you can walk into any suburban mall today and see the same problems. It is a constantly changing industry.

In my opinion, TC failed.  TC was designed and constructed to be a mixed use retail development attracting much higher rents than it does today.  In fact, it needs to collect much higher rents than it does today to operate.  Yes, the current mix of retailers in there may well support rail riders, but that was not the intended purpose.  If that was the intended purpose, the mall wouldn't be as large and be comprised of the same finishings that it has.  For comparison sakes, it would have been constructed like the 30th street station in Center City Philly which serves that purpose perfectly. 

 

PS lots are the premier location of downtown Cleveland, and in my opinion, presently one location that can succed without furthering the downtown population more than it is today. 

^In the 1980s, the population living within a couple miles of Public Square was almost definitely much larger than it is today

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Fairly certain.  Between 1980 and 2010, the combined population of Downtown and the adjacent city neighborhoods (Ohio City, Tremont, Central, Goodrich Kirtland Park, and Industrial Valley, using the city's SPA definitions) declined 21%.  If you include the next nearest neighborhoods, which are still very close to downtown (St. Clair Superior, Hough, Clark Fulton, Detroit Shoreway), the combined decline is more than 30%.  There may have been some net growth since 2010, and I know 1980 is the outside edge of the 1980s, but I suspect the change from 1985-2014 would also be net negative.

 

[EDIT, here are the sources for 1980 and 2010 census data I looked at: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/census/factsheets/cpc.html; http://urban.csuohio.edu/nodis/2010census.html]

 

I'm not trying to be gloomy, though. The current trend for these areas is very positive for future downtown retail, so long as it doesn't get siphoned off by Steelyard and the like, which I suspect is a serious risk given the high auto use rates for middle class residents even in central neighborhoods.

 

Edit II: and I don't mean to suggest that downtown area population trends are the be all and end all, given downtown's role as a national and regional travel destination and employment center too. Ideally, these sources of demand can together convince retailers and developers to start taking some risks soon.

 

 

In my opinion, TC failed.  TC was designed and constructed to be a mixed use retail development attracting much higher rents than it does today.  In fact, it needs to collect much higher rents than it does today to operate.  Yes, the current mix of retailers in there may well support rail riders, but that was not the intended purpose.  If that was the intended purpose, the mall wouldn't be as large and be comprised of the same finishings that it has.  For comparison sakes, it would have been constructed like the 30th street station in Center City Philly which serves that purpose perfectly. 

 

PS lots are the premier location of downtown Cleveland, and in my opinion, presently one location that can succed without furthering the downtown population more than it is today. 

 

Tower City may not be what you or its developers had originally intended it to be, but that doesn't make it a failure. How can it? And it's customer base is much more diverse than serving transit riders. It includes downtown office workers, tourists, hotel guests, gamblers, sporting event attendees, etc., many of whom didn't use transit to reach Tower City. Fact is, Tower City's vacancy rate is low. That's an achievement by any standard.

 

BTW, 30th Street Station and Center City are two separate rail stations about a mile apart in downtown Philadelphia.

^Good points.  More than just transit riders use TC, from hotel guests to office workers.  And as someone said if you put the stores and restaurants of TC onto the streets of Cleveland we'd be having a very different conversation about downtown retail.

^Good points.  More than just transit riders use TC, from hotel guests to office workers.  And as someone said if you put the stores and restaurants of TC onto the streets of Cleveland we'd be having a very different conversation about downtown retail.

 

Which is where many of them used to be before Tower City opened in 1990. And many of Society For Savings offices were scattered around downtown, including on Ontario and Euclid south/east of Public Square, rather than put in a 57-story high-rise where many office workers never leave during their work day.

Fact is to get suburban-grade retail back in the urban cores, the dwellers are going to have to change their spending habits to make them more like the suburban ones. First, money can't all go to bars, going out to eat (this is a big one) and entertainment. BUY STUFF. Second, be willing to buy normal things, not just highly unusual, hard-to-get items. And buy a lot of normal things. BUY STUFF. Don't plan out every purchase, call a bunch of stores and spend a ton of time on the internet before buying anything. BUY STUFF. In fact, stop spending so much time on the internet. Cut back on the Netflix. Way back. BUY STUFF. Also, have kids in the city. Nothing makes you spend money in the physical world than kids. No downloading diapers or streaming formula. And kids love to go shopping... shopping shopping, not quickie laser-focused errands with a time crunch. BUY STUFF. Don't be that Millennial that retailers hate who only owns a laptop, bike, TV, online game console, bed and couch but averages $15 per meal and $6 a beer. BUY STUFF.

Im no expert on the subject but there are a few things that I think might have hurt/still hurt the retail scene in Cleveland.

 

1. Not a lot of retail spaces. If you really look at downtown, only a few streets have buildings with ground floor retail space. The majority of downtown is taken up by large office/government buildings with no ground floor retail space, parking garages, and parking lots. Even Euclid lacks retail space from East 6th to East 9th which cuts up the activity and kills spill over.

 

I've often wondered what would happen if these dead zone properties were given incentives or perhaps even required to be opened up for retail.

 

Tower City may not be what you or its developers had originally intended it to be, but that doesn't make it a failure. How can it? And it's customer base is much more diverse than serving transit riders. It includes downtown office workers, tourists, hotel guests, gamblers, sporting event attendees, etc., many of whom didn't use transit to reach Tower City. Fact is, Tower City's vacancy rate is low. That's an achievement by any standard.

 

BTW, 30th Street Station and Center City are two separate rail stations about a mile apart in downtown Philadelphia.

 

I'm guessing he's referring to Market East, the 4-block long mixed-use development connecting with the commuter tunnel and the Market Street el (but a subway at that point).  Market East is dumpy compared to Tower City, in part because it is underground (low ceiling, as opposed to TC’s magnificent atrium courts) and because of its bland architecture compared to the magnificent train station elements that existed/were kept by FCE when they developed TC.  Market East's stores are cheesier than TC’s overall, although they do have 1 anchor store, Burlington Coat Factory (K-Mart recently closed there).  The more upscale, Higbees-like Strawbridge & Clothier went out of business in the late 90s; government offices occupy its handsome Art Deco building. 

 

"@PassovGroup: What types of retail do downtowners want to see? Cleveland's first retail survey is coming 7/16, stay tuned! #CLEretail @DowntownCLE #CLE"

"@PassovGroup: What types of retail do downtowners want to see? Cleveland's first retail survey is coming 7/16, stay tuned! #CLEretail @DowntownCLE #CLE"

 

Oh I have lots of ideas!

"@PassovGroup: What types of retail do downtowners want to see? Cleveland's first retail survey is coming 7/16, stay tuned! #CLEretail @DowntownCLE #CLE"

 

Hmm..... How about a high end car dealership?

You know what I want.... CITY-TARGET!!

 

Tower City may not be what you or its developers had originally intended it to be, but that doesn't make it a failure. How can it? And it's customer base is much more diverse than serving transit riders. It includes downtown office workers, tourists, hotel guests, gamblers, sporting event attendees, etc., many of whom didn't use transit to reach Tower City. Fact is, Tower City's vacancy rate is low. That's an achievement by any standard.

 

BTW, 30th Street Station and Center City are two separate rail stations about a mile apart in downtown Philadelphia.

 

I'm guessing he's referring to Market East, the 4-block long mixed-use development connecting with the commuter tunnel and the Market Street el (but a subway at that point).  Market East is dumpy compared to Tower City, in part because it is underground (low ceiling, as opposed to TC’s magnificent atrium courts) and because of its bland architecture compared to the magnificent train station elements that existed/were kept by FCE when they developed TC.  Market East's stores are cheesier than TC’s overall, although they do have 1 anchor store, Burlington Coat Factory (K-Mart recently closed there).  The more upscale, Higbees-like Strawbridge & Clothier went out of business in the late 90s; government offices occupy its handsome Art Deco building. 

 

 

S-C was more like May Co.  IIRC, its lower floors were connected to Market east trains like TC is connected to Higbee's (the casino).    That building is gorgeous.  Market East is like an underground swap meet!

In my opinion, TC failed.  TC was designed and constructed to be a mixed use retail development attracting much higher rents than it does today.  In fact, it needs to collect much higher rents than it does today to operate.  Yes, the current mix of retailers in there may well support rail riders, but that was not the intended purpose.  If that was the intended purpose, the mall wouldn't be as large and be comprised of the same finishings that it has.  For comparison sakes, it would have been constructed like the 30th street station in Center City Philly which serves that purpose perfectly. 

 

PS lots are the premier location of downtown Cleveland, and in my opinion, presently one location that can succed without furthering the downtown population more than it is today. 

Failed?  No, Tower City itself is not a fail. The management of the mall was a failure!  As I've said before, TC didn' not know how to manage a mall and should have partnered with a mall management company like Westfield or Simon in order to develop and market the mall.

Help take Downtown Cleveland to the next level.

From Constantino’s Market to the 5th Street Arcades to Heinen’s, Downtown retail is coming back strong. As recently unveiled in Step Up Downtown, DCA’s vision and tactical plan, there is need for even more retail options to meet the demands of downtown’s rapidly growing population.

 

This survey, an initiative of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance City Advocates Program, is a part of the next phase to Step Up Downtown to understand the market’s retail preferences. Downtown Cleveland Alliance has partnered with Passov Real Estate Group as well as their neighborhood based partners in the Gateway District and Warehouse District to find out which types of retailers you want to see come downtown. Be part of the conversation by participating in Cleveland's first retail survey to help bring new retail downtown.

 

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a017nhxp38ea9/questions

Help take Downtown Cleveland to the next level.

From Constantino’s Market to the 5th Street Arcades to Heinen’s, Downtown retail is coming back strong. As recently unveiled in Step Up Downtown, DCA’s vision and tactical plan, there is need for even more retail options to meet the demands of downtown’s rapidly growing population.

 

This survey, an initiative of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance City Advocates Program, is a part of the next phase to Step Up Downtown to understand the market’s retail preferences. Downtown Cleveland Alliance has partnered with Passov Real Estate Group as well as their neighborhood based partners in the Gateway District and Warehouse District to find out which types of retailers you want to see come downtown. Be part of the conversation by participating in Cleveland's first retail survey to help bring new retail downtown.

 

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a017nhxp38ea9/questions

 

Be sure to check the results.

Be sure to check the results.

 

So how many aliases did you use?

Be sure to check the results.

 

So how many aliases did you use?

 

LMAO None.  I mean look at the results compared to yours, particularly this question - What, if anything, prevents you from shopping in Downtown Cleveland? Check all that apply.  Most, no an overwhelming majority of people say lack of options.  Parking is a distant, distant second.

Maybe a Gap, Target, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Nord. Rack, Apple Store, Banana Republic, world market etc.

 

I hope we're all sharing our input on the survey, and not just posting ideas here. Give them your input....

 

BACKGROUND

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/cleretail

 

SURVEY

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a01dfhxq5ayv3/questions

 

FIXED LINKS

Just completed my survey.  Glad to see that almost 400 people have responded already.  That's pretty good response. 

I hope we're all sharing our input on the survey, and not just posting ideas here. Give them your input....

 

BACKGROUND

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/cleretail

 

SURVEY

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a01dfhxq5ayv3/questions

 

FIXED LINKS

All I get is a server error message.

I hope we're all sharing our input on the survey, and not just posting ideas here. Give them your input....

 

BACKGROUND

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/cleretail

 

SURVEY

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a01dfhxq5ayv3/questions

 

FIXED LINKS

All I get is a server error message.

 

Yeah me too. Just go to the downtowncleveland.com/cleretail link above and click on the survey that way.

I hope we're all sharing our input on the survey, and not just posting ideas here. Give them your input....

 

BACKGROUND

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/cleretail

 

SURVEY

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e9jik91xhxd9zgfh/a01dfhxq5ayv3/questions

 

FIXED LINKS

All I get is a server error message.

 

Yeah me too. Just go to the downtowncleveland.com/cleretail link above and click on the survey that way.

Thank you

^ No worries. You can thank me by demanding more Dollar General in the survey ha ha.

First TargetExpress opens its doors in Dinkytown near U

Article by: KAVITA KUMAR , Star Tribune Updated: July 23, 2014 - 12:11 PM

 

Super-sizing in retail is so yesterday. Instead, Target is going even smaller with its new store formats.

 

The Minneapolis-based retailer will open a 20,000-square-foot TargetExpress store in Dinkytown Wednesday, the first of its kind for Target at about a sixth of the size of traditional locations.

 

“We’re testing things on an ongoing basis,” said Kamau Witherspoon, Target’s senior director of store operations, while offering a sneak peek earlier this week. “This is just our latest innovation.”

 

The prototype feels like a drugstore along the lines of a CVS or Walgreens, but has its own Target flair with merchandise that includes groceries, bedding, smartphones — plus a healthy dose of Gophers fan gear.

 

After years of going big in the ­suburbs, Target is increasingly eyeing opportunities in the urban core following population growth in those areas. So far, only about 11 percent of its stores are in urban areas, but in 2012, it began testing an 80,000- to 100,000-square-foot store format called CityTarget, to appeal to the urban shopper. Now there are eight CityTargets in cities such as Chicago, San Francisco and Portland, Ore.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.startribune.com/business/268208242.html

Something like this would be great for Downtown- if they take the strategy of supplementing what is available at CVS or the new Heinen's.  I worry that the standard retail M.O. is to duplicate what the nearest competitor has though.

The galleria thread had me thinking...

 

Cleveland really dropped the ball when it came to retail. Tower City and the Galleria both brought national high-end retail chains downtown. Unfortunately Clevelanders decided not to support these shops and the downtown retail scene has yet to recover. If they would have remained, I would imagine downtown would be growing at a much greater pace, and tourism would also be much higher. I would bet that many new shops would have also opened, whether it be in the mall or on the streets. Several stores probably would have also moved out of the malls and onto the streets. It would be interesting to see how different things would be today if these malls didn't fail the way they did.

 

How long till retailers give us another shot? Lets hope this Stark project actually happens and can be the spark downtown needs.

In my opinion, at that time, they were trying to attract those who wanted suburban living and shopping, and who left the city for that.

In my opinion, at that time, they were trying to attract those who wanted suburban living and shopping, and who left the city for that.

 

Exactly. Had the downtown living movement been in full force in 1990 as it is in 2014 I think we'd be much further ahead. In addition I think there was a much more widespread thought that downtown was a dangerous place, so people avoided Tower City. In addition Cleveland saw the expansion and construction of new and existing suburban malls throughout the 90s that pretty much added all but the highest end stores that were in Tower City when it opened.

^Correct.  Timing wasn't right in the late 80's early 90's.  Suburbs were in full swing, and that's what the consumers of that time wanted.  There was very little you could do to promote downtown shopping at that time.  Fast-forwad 20, 25 years, and things may be different.  Cleveland really hasn't been tested from a retail standpoint yet, but it may come soon, and we shall see.  Obviously residential is working out great. 

Also, what Cleveland needs to kickstart the retail development is a reasonably priced destination store that doesn't exist in the suburbs.  Say for instance, back in 2004, had Crate and Barrel opened up on Euclid and 4th versus Legacy, I think people would have gone downtown to shop there.  I think people would have stopped in on Lunch breaks.  I think it would have been a success.  It's reasonably priced stuff that people buy, and not something that is going to have several locations around Cleveland.  The foot traffic going in the store would have created an environment to open more retail.  In my opinion, it was the one thing that brought people from 60+miles away to Legacy, and that's what you would have seen on 4th.  The first Cheescake Factory in Ohio also helped, but again, that is cheap food with few locations that has a "cultish" following, similar to Crate and Barrel.

 

Now a limited Brands store, or Old Navy type store would not work.  If you can shop at one in 15 of their other locations in the burbs, you're not going to make the special trip downtown.  On the other end, an extremely high end retailer (which I am not up on any of them) would also probably fail.  It would have the inition "Wow" factor shoppers that bought next to nothing, and then failure about 5 years later. 

One thing I think is of note is that of all the downtown malls in Ohio opened in 1989 and 1990, Tower City, City Center in Columbus and Tower Place in Cincinnati Tower City is the only one still open. I think the thing that makes it unique is its transit connections.