Also, what Cleveland needs to kickstart the retail development is a reasonably priced destination store that doesn't exist in the suburbs.  Say for instance, back in 2004, had Crate and Barrel opened up on Euclid and 4th versus Legacy, I think people would have gone downtown to shop there.  I think people would have stopped in on Lunch breaks.  I think it would have been a success.  It's reasonably priced stuff that people buy, and not something that is going to have several locations around Cleveland.  The foot traffic going in the store would have created an environment to open more retail.  In my opinion, it was the one thing that brought people from 60+miles away to Legacy, and that's what you would have seen on 4th.  The first Cheescake Factory in Ohio also helped, but again, that is cheap food with few locations that has a "cultish" following, similar to Crate and Barrel.

 

Now a limited Brands store, or Old Navy type store would not work.  If you can shop at one in 15 of their other locations in the burbs, you're not going to make the special trip downtown.  On the other end, an extremely high end retailer (which I am not up on any of them) would also probably fail.  It would have the inition "Wow" factor shoppers that bought next to nothing, and then failure about 5 years later. 

 

Downtown IKEA!!!

Also, what Cleveland needs to kickstart the retail development is a reasonably priced destination store that doesn't exist in the suburbs.  Say for instance, back in 2004, had Crate and Barrel opened up on Euclid and 4th versus Legacy, I think people would have gone downtown to shop there.  I think people would have stopped in on Lunch breaks.  I think it would have been a success.  It's reasonably priced stuff that people buy, and not something that is going to have several locations around Cleveland.  The foot traffic going in the store would have created an environment to open more retail.  In my opinion, it was the one thing that brought people from 60+miles away to Legacy, and that's what you would have seen on 4th.  The first Cheescake Factory in Ohio also helped, but again, that is cheap food with few locations that has a "cultish" following, similar to Crate and Barrel.

 

Now a limited Brands store, or Old Navy type store would not work.  If you can shop at one in 15 of their other locations in the burbs, you're not going to make the special trip downtown.  On the other end, an extremely high end retailer (which I am not up on any of them) would also probably fail.  It would have the inition "Wow" factor shoppers that bought next to nothing, and then failure about 5 years later. 

 

People drive 60+ miles to go to a Crate and Barrel? Why? That store is nothing special and would be regarded as a mid tier place at best.

Also, what Cleveland needs to kickstart the retail development is a reasonably priced destination store that doesn't exist in the suburbs.  Say for instance, back in 2004, had Crate and Barrel opened up on Euclid and 4th versus Legacy, I think people would have gone downtown to shop there.  I think people would have stopped in on Lunch breaks.  I think it would have been a success.  It's reasonably priced stuff that people buy, and not something that is going to have several locations around Cleveland.  The foot traffic going in the store would have created an environment to open more retail.  In my opinion, it was the one thing that brought people from 60+miles away to Legacy, and that's what you would have seen on 4th.  The first Cheescake Factory in Ohio also helped, but again, that is cheap food with few locations that has a "cultish" following, similar to Crate and Barrel.

 

Now a limited Brands store, or Old Navy type store would not work.  If you can shop at one in 15 of their other locations in the burbs, you're not going to make the special trip downtown.  On the other end, an extremely high end retailer (which I am not up on any of them) would also probably fail.  It would have the inition "Wow" factor shoppers that bought next to nothing, and then failure about 5 years later. 

 

People drive 60+ miles to go to a Crate and Barrel? Why? That store is nothing special and would be regarded as a mid tier place at best.

Exactly, it's a mid tier place, and that was my point.  It's a afforadable place to shop, but has some strange "cultish" following amongst women, and some men, of many age groups.  Now, I'm not sure if that is still the case, but when it opened at Legacy, it was.  My point is, affordable destination stores, which by definition have very few locations, will be catered to by many people from far distances, not matter where they are located, and that includes downtown.  Think of a store like this as an anchor for downtown.  Destination stores of the past included Higbees, Halles etc.  Obviously we know that those have moved to the suburbs for volume.

Downtown IKEA!!!

 

There ya go. But it would have to be designed in such a way that you could drive your car past a door/dock where furniture could be easily loaded. If you have to carry furniture down the street to your car parked at a meter or to a parking garage, it ain't gonna fly. If you can drive your car around to a loading area or have your stuff delivered for free to your home within a certain distance of the center-city, then I think it would be a huge success.

Also, what Cleveland needs to kickstart the retail development is a reasonably priced destination store that doesn't exist in the suburbs.  Say for instance, back in 2004, had Crate and Barrel opened up on Euclid and 4th versus Legacy, I think people would have gone downtown to shop there.  I think people would have stopped in on Lunch breaks.  I think it would have been a success.  It's reasonably priced stuff that people buy, and not something that is going to have several locations around Cleveland.  The foot traffic going in the store would have created an environment to open more retail.  In my opinion, it was the one thing that brought people from 60+miles away to Legacy, and that's what you would have seen on 4th.  The first Cheescake Factory in Ohio also helped, but again, that is cheap food with few locations that has a "cultish" following, similar to Crate and Barrel.

 

Now a limited Brands store, or Old Navy type store would not work.  If you can shop at one in 15 of their other locations in the burbs, you're not going to make the special trip downtown.  On the other end, an extremely high end retailer (which I am not up on any of them) would also probably fail.  It would have the inition "Wow" factor shoppers that bought next to nothing, and then failure about 5 years later. 

 

People drive 60+ miles to go to a Crate and Barrel? Why? That store is nothing special and would be regarded as a mid tier place at best.

Exactly, it's a mid tier place, and that was my point.  It's a afforadable place to shop, but has some strange "cultish" following amongst women, and some men, of many age groups.  Now, I'm not sure if that is still the case, but when it opened at Legacy, it was.  My point is, affordable destination stores, which by definition have very few locations, will be catered to by many people from far distances, not matter where they are located, and that includes downtown.  Think of a store like this as an anchor for downtown.  Destination stores of the past included Higbees, Halles etc.  Obviously we know that those have moved to the suburbs for volume.

 

And my point was, I don't think Crate and Barrel has ever been regarded as a destination store by anyone. It's a Pier 1 with a better designed store and less wicker.  Now if Cleveland had a West Elm, THAT is a destination store and I think illustrates a store that people would travel downtown for.  West Elm is still mid tier, but has a more fashionable reputation.  Not to mention Crate and Barrel has a ton of locations and West Elm isn't nearly as common.  Uncommon retailers downtown are what is needed (except for that City Target which would make me happy).

^You are missing my point. Pier 1 has several location in NE Ohio.  Crate and Barrel has one, and it will most likely remain that way.  If that one store was downtown at 4th and Euclid, people would drive there to go to it, becasuse they like it, and there aren't any other locations in the region elsewhere.  Not too mention, it's cheap, and therefore draws a wide demographic.  The Ikea of homeware.  And this doesn't have to be Crate and Barrel, I used that as an example.  It could be an Ikea as referenced above, or some other destination store. 

 

And I'm not sure your understanding the definition of destination store.  It doesn't mean that it is high end and pricey, it just means that they don't open many of them, and have large catalog/internet ordering.  Again, like Ikea.   

West Elm would be awesoommmeee.... as would the City Target. I could definitely see people coming downtown for those. Especially West Elm. I can see so many people from Ohio City/Tremont/and Downtown shopping there.

 

I don't really see an IKEA working out.. I feel like it would be more of a hassle if anything. A store like that I would rather see build off 480 or something.

West Elm would be awesoommmeee.... as would the City Target. I could definitely see people coming downtown for those. Especially West Elm. I can see so many people from Ohio City/Tremont/and Downtown shopping there.

 

I don't really see an IKEA working out.. I feel like it would be more of a hassle if anything. A store like that I would rather see build off 480 or something.

Not sure we're ready for a Target.  Soon hopefully however.  If there wasn't one at Steelyard, or 117th, I would say maybe. 

West Elm would be awesoommmeee.... as would the City Target. I could definitely see people coming downtown for those. Especially West Elm. I can see so many people from Ohio City/Tremont/and Downtown shopping there.

 

I don't really see an IKEA working out.. I feel like it would be more of a hassle if anything. A store like that I would rather see build off 480 or something.

Not sure we're ready for a Target.  Soon hopefully however.  If there wasn't one at Steelyard, or 117th, I would say maybe. 

 

I don't think a full Target would be successful..However, I think if it was scaled down to fit the needs of people living downtown it would be great.

I don't get the whole fascination with IKEA. But apparently everybody wants one. How about one at FEB at the WFL loop. That would be a coup for them for sure. It would create a lot of buzz and drive the retail developers in the burbs crazy.

^You are missing my point. Pier 1 has several location in NE Ohio.  Crate and Barrel has one, and it will most likely remain that way.  If that one store was downtown at 4th and Euclid, people would drive there to go to it, becasuse they like it, and there aren't any other locations in the region elsewhere.  Not too mention, it's cheap, and therefore draws a wide demographic.  The Ikea of homeware.  And this doesn't have to be Crate and Barrel, I used that as an example.  It could be an Ikea as referenced above, or some other destination store. 

 

And I'm not sure your understanding the definition of destination store.  It doesn't mean that it is high end and pricey, it just means that they don't open many of them, and have large catalog/internet ordering.  Again, like Ikea.   

 

Of course I understand what a destination store is, thanks for the explaination though. I worked in retail once upon a time. I just disagree that C & B is a destination store.

 

 

I don't think a full Target would be successful..However, I think if it was scaled down to fit the needs of people living downtown it would be great.

 

That's the Target model called City Target. They have been very successful in more urban areas.

 

 

I don't think a full Target would be successful..However, I think if it was scaled down to fit the needs of people living downtown it would be great.

 

That's the Target model called City Target. They have been very successful in more urban areas.

 

yeah I called it that earlier...I just don't think someone got the point when they said a Target wouldn't work. lol

I feel as if the concept of "destination" shopping has declined dramatically in the past 5-10 years. Now, nearly every store has some sort of on-line presence that generally offers much greater selection than they would in their store. Before, people actually had to go to the cities with that particular store or to the regional "upscale" mall for that shopping. Places that were destination stores 15 years ago, are no longer destination stores today (which could explain some of the downfall of the Galleria and Tower City).

 

While certainly an overwhelming number of people are still shopping in physical stores, the growing number of online purchases can't be ignored. Even everyday items that one would normally buy at target or walmart can often be purchased from Amazon for the same price and automatically delivered right to you when you need it. The concept of e-retailing might actually be encouraging people to live in places that don't have much retail presence simply because the availability of retail stores might no longer make a place more "livable".

 

Perhaps that might be why it's going to be an uphill battle to start retail in downtown Cleveland. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the mindset of people choosing to live in downtown, Tremont, and O/C over the past few years is much different than those choosing to live in the suburbs. If not, downtown would already have an Applebee's, Longhorn, American Eagle, Aeropostal, etc.

 

But with all that said, downtown realistically should be able to support decent destination retail. Downtown Cleveland has no problem at all attracting thousands every evening for restaurants, theater, concerts, and sports. Clearly any perceived "lack of parking" or "too expensive parking" or "not safe" isn't deterring these people from coming downtown in droves. I'm sure these are the same people that shop at their suburban strip malls every weekend as well. Obviously all the restaurants, sports, etc downtown are destination attractions. We just need a few key destination stores to open up to change the retail scene, the problem is that every year there are fewer and fewer destination retail stores.

 

 

City Target in Seattle....

 

The second City Target for Chicago....

 

Los Angeles has three City Targets.....

LA does have a City Target downtown, but that is not a picture of it.  That photo is of a Target ad on LA Live.  The City Target is located a couple of blocks north on the site of a former mall.  West Hollywood also has a very urban (full size) Target built over a garage.

edale[/member] is correct.  KJP[/member]  If you are counting the City Target in Westwood by UCLA, then yes, LA has 3.  The one downtown, which was first, and more recently, one by the Beverly Center are the other locations.  There is also another full size Target being built now at the intersection of Sunset and Western in what was once the vacant parking lot of an abandoned grocery store.  It's being built up to the street with parking either under or on top, I couldn't tell.  The picture posted of the Target in Seattle is exactly what I would like to see for Cleveland.

Been to the CityTarget in Seattle. It's perfect for a downtown that is highly residential like what Seattle has. It really is quite similar to the University Heights multi-level Target store, except without the larger seasonal items (e.g. patio sets) and such that the average Downtown Seattleite has no place for, even if they could somehow manage to lug them back to their apartment.

 

Downtown Cleveland is moving towards becoming more residential, but still has quite a ways to go before it hits the critical mass of residents that would make this store viable here. I'd guess we'd be more likely to see the smaller TargetExpress model happening first, perhaps as part of a major mixed-use development within the Warehouse District, or maybe adjacent to CSU.

^ I agree. I don't see a city target downtown anytime in our near future. The population still has a long way to go. Steelyard makes the chances even worse, although it is a plus since a city target probably wasn't going to happen anyways. Atleast core residents still have a target nearby!

KJP[/member] your second photo isn't Chicago, it's the CityTarget which took over part of the long-troubled Sony Metreon project in San Francisco.

KJP[/member] your second photo isn't Chicago, it's the CityTarget which took over part of the long-troubled Sony Metreon project in San Francisco.

 

You guys are pretty serious about your CityTargets! Now I know how you all feel when I critique your commentaries about a rail project or equipment. My apologies! :)