Posted January 7, 201411 yr Unrecognizable 1857 Superior Avenue (west) looking towards Public Square 1869 Superior Avenue (west) south side 1870 Superior Avenue (west) south side 1874 Superior Avenue (west) north side 1875 Superior Avenue (west) south side 1875 Superior Avenue north side and West 3rd 1880 Superior Avenue (west) south side 1885 Northeast corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street 1882 Looking east along Superior Avenue from West 9th Street 1890 Superior Avenue north side taken from West 6th Street 1895 Superior Avenue south side at West 6th Street 1906 Superior Avenue looking east from West 9th Street 1910 Superior Avenue south side looking west to East 6th Street 1911 Superior Avenue south side from East 9th looking west 1913 Superior Avenue looking east from West 9th Street 1915 Superior Avenue south side 1916 Superior Avenue and East 3rd 1917 Superior Avenue (east) north side 1925 Superior Avenue between East 2nd and East 3rd
January 7, 201411 yr It's like another world. Just crazy. I always love looking at the signs on the buildings and how I wish we had more of that today. It makes you wonder what images someone will be looking at 150 years from now. Will it be completely different?
January 7, 201411 yr Unrecognizable 1916 Superior Avenue and East 3rd This would have been an awesome apartment building with that top floor as penthouse apartments. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
January 7, 201411 yr That's the Forest City Hotel, the second hotel on that site. It was replaced in 1918 by the Hotel Cleveland, today's Renaissance Hotel. And for another hotel, I love the Hollenden Hotel's overhang of the sidewalk in this view.... http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1911southsideofSuperiorAvenuejustbelowEast9thstreetlookingwest_zpsfdde727b.jpg While the Forest City Hotel was a loss, it was replaced by another beauty. The hotel I miss the most is the original Hollenden which was replaced in 1962 by a god-awful box. The Fifth Third Bank Tower is an upgrade over the 1962 Hollenden. But I love 19th Century views of Gilded Age Cleveland. As much as I hate the abuses of the corporate elite of this era, they sure built some magnificent buildings. Very European looking. IMHO. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 7, 201411 yr ^ That is actually the old city hall. They rented out space in the upper floors and first floor was still retail.
January 7, 201411 yr Oh you're right! I was thinking West 3rd, not East 3rd. Note the physical similarity with the Forest City House hotel, circa 1876....... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 7, 201411 yr Nice work! Really thorough way to document a discrete stretch of downtown. Losing all this stuff would certainly hurt a lot less had most of it been replaced by high quality newer buildings, but alas, no.
January 7, 201411 yr Oh you're right! I was thinking West 3rd, not East 3rd. Note the physical similarity with the Forest City House hotel, circa 1876....... Here are some actual photos of the building.
January 7, 201411 yr Those are great, DM4. It's rare to see old ground level shots of Public Square. I wish I had a time machine
January 7, 201411 yr Those are great, DM4. It's rare to see old ground level shots of Public Square. I wish I had a time machine Don't we all! Just to be able to walk through the city for one day would be amazing. I have more pictures of public square I could post. Ill look for the best ones. Ill probably post them elsewhere so that this thread can remain Superior focused.
January 7, 201411 yr Thanks! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 7, 201411 yr Another incredible set. Pieces of Superior are Cleveland's equivalent to Over-the-Rhine. It seems that Euclid received most of the attention in the major rebuilding of Downtown Cleveland that took place in the 1910's-30's.
January 8, 201411 yr Beautiful photos. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 10, 201411 yr good lord what a treasure trove -- i have never seen any of these. must enlarge+explore!
January 10, 201411 yr Absolutely incredible! Some absolute gems in there. I would never have known that those were photos of Superior if that wasn't the title of the thread! I'm just amazed at how wide that street is! Four streetcar tracks! I don't know enough about Cleveland's street plan - was there a reason for making so many of downtown's roads being as expansive as they are, or was that fairly typical for cities during the time period? “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
January 10, 201411 yr Absolutely incredible! Some absolute gems in there. I would never have known that those were photos of Superior if that wasn't the title of the thread! I'm just amazed at how wide that street is! Four streetcar tracks! I don't know enough about Cleveland's street plan - was there a reason for making so many of downtown's roads being as expansive as they are, or was that fairly typical for cities during the time period? In the late 1700s and early 1800s, Cleaveland (er, Cleveland!) was trying to follow the planning lead of European cities in its development of grand boulevards. The Hapsburgs were demolishing sections of Paris, Vienna, Rome, Budapest etc for these grand avenues and Cleveland wanted to start from scratch with that model (as did L'Enfant in Washington DC, Indianapolis and Perrysburg, Ohio of all places -- but he's better known for his use of mixing in diagonal streets into a street grid). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 11, 201411 yr ^ That is actually the old city hall. They rented out space in the upper floors and first floor was still retail. Another old City Hall view. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
January 11, 201411 yr Here's a few images with Superior... That first pic is beautiful... Because there's no parking lot. :)
January 11, 201411 yr Wow, those pictures are amazing! I really wish some of those buildings would have survived to the present. Thank you for putting this together!
January 11, 201411 yr Absolutely incredible! Some absolute gems in there. I would never have known that those were photos of Superior if that wasn't the title of the thread! I'm just amazed at how wide that street is! Four streetcar tracks! I don't know enough about Cleveland's street plan - was there a reason for making so many of downtown's roads being as expansive as they are, or was that fairly typical for cities during the time period? In the late 1700s and early 1800s, Cleaveland (er, Cleveland!) was trying to follow the planning lead of European cities in its development of grand boulevards. The Hapsburgs were demolishing sections of Paris, Vienna, Rome, Budapest etc for these grand avenues and Cleveland wanted to start from scratch with that model (as did L'Enfant in Washington DC, Indianapolis and Perrysburg, Ohio of all places -- but he's better known for his use of mixing in diagonal streets into a street grid). I'm not sure this is quite right, actually. Based on some local histories (like Carol Poh Miller's) and conversations with older planners (though obviously none from the 1790s!), the dimensions were primarily to enable "modern" commerce. Superior was the widest because it led the riverbanks where most goods were expected to arrive. The streets were wide enough to turn a horse wagon and to avoid congestion. I think dreams of grandeur were a few decades away still (and the boulevard movement in Europe was mostly an 18th century movement, I believe- certainly in Paris). The most direct precedents were newer New England towns and other frontier towns, planned from the ground up by speculators. Certainly the congestion of older cities that had grown organically would have been seen as object lessons to be avoided, though.
January 11, 201411 yr Wow, those pictures are amazing! I really wish some of those buildings would have survived to the present. Thank you for putting this together! Half the "street wall" in this view still stand. Only those in the foreground are gone.... http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1911southsideofSuperiorAvenuejustbelowEast9thstreetlookingwest_zpsfdde727b.jpg "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 11, 201411 yr Here's a few images with Superior... Those are great. I love the "Square Tavern" in the first one. It kills me that out of hundreds of ordinary bars and taverns that existed before WWII, so, so few have survived in something close to original form to this day, especially downtown. I'm still sad Otto Moser's moved.
January 11, 201411 yr Wow, those pictures are amazing! I really wish some of those buildings would have survived to the present. Thank you for putting this together! Half the "street wall" in this view still stand. Only those in the foreground are gone.... http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1911southsideofSuperiorAvenuejustbelowEast9thstreetlookingwest_zpsfdde727b.jpg Sadly ALL of the buildings on Superior in these pictures are gone. West Superior is what really got screwed! http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1915southsideofSuperiorAvenuelookingeastfromWest6thStreet_zpsfc0b48c9.jpg http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1890SuperiorAvenuenorthsidetakenfromWest6thStreet_zps5688969e.jpg http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/DM4-/Historic%20Pictures/1882LookingeastalongSuperiorAvenuefromWest9thStreet_zpsea8d1259.jpg
January 11, 201411 yr Yep, the Terminal Group south of Superior, the Parking Lot district on the north side of Superior. Although the Perry-Payne, Western Reserve and Rockefeller buildings survived. All are very ornate structures, especially inside. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 24, 201411 yr C Those little tile-roofed pavillions/shelter houses on Public Square are neat. Can we bring these shelters back and take out the current Healthline ones?
January 24, 201411 yr Wonderful essay, DM4... What an evolution of downtown Cleveland from pastoral/bucolic to a real city. I'm always captivated seeing photos from the 19th and early 20th century. The “old” buildings and architecture that we treasure (some of us, anyway) and fight to save as “historic preservation” were just regular, normal buildings to those living then… To see the evolution of technology and the lack thereof, (seemingly) “primitive” lifestyle of the people who were, nonetheless getting on with their lives dealing with loved ones, family and all the arcane details of living, just like ... us. … Somebody 100 years from now will look at old videos and/or photos of us (on God knows what type of device), and think the same things.
January 24, 201411 yr ... btw DM4, your 1874 photo is the 1st showing Superior cutting through Public Square as opposed to the 1857 shot showing the Square as peaceful village square -- talk about Back to the Future in terms of what we saw then, and see now as "progress" given our endless talk and plans to return it to an unbroken park... Do you (or anybody) know the date when Superior and Ontario were cut through the Square?
January 24, 201411 yr They cut through the square originally. The square was at some point combined and then cut through again.
January 24, 201411 yr Yes DM4, you have come to the same realization I did about a year ago... We have lost an amazing amount of VERY significant architecture along Superior. I don't want to sound like too much of a freak, but this post is an example of the nightmares that I see every time I drive down Superior - I see the original buildings - I know where they all were - and it makes me incredibly sad.... I would strongly argue that 100 years ago we had buildings that would have rivaled world class architecture in Brussels, London and many other European cities, but it was all destroyed...Superior Avenue of 100 years ago was truly amazing. Now we have parking lots and dubious high-rises...
January 25, 201411 yr I agree, it is often hard to stomach. But it is important not to get too down it. I was just looking at pictures of the Arcade and the interiors of the old Huntington and National City Buildings. I tried to imagine my feelings looking at those pictures if they had been torn down (and American cities have torn down more beautiful buildings before, so it's not unreasonable), and it made me realize that we do have a lot of beautiful buildings left. Especially the stretch of Superior from Public Square to East 9th Street. The things I would do to still have those buildings on the west side of Superior though.... Yes DM4, you have come to the same realization I did about a year ago... We have lost an amazing amount of VERY significant architecture along Superior. I don't want to sound like too much of a freak, but this post is an example of the nightmares that I see every time I drive down Superior - I see the original buildings - I know where they all were - and it makes me incredibly sad.... I would strongly argue that 100 years ago we had buildings that would have rivaled world class architecture in Brussels, London and many other European cities, but it was all destroyed...Superior Avenue of 100 years ago was truly amazing. Now we have parking lots and dubious high-rises...
January 25, 201411 yr The downtown shots are hard to stomach, but even more so are those of streets like Superior and St Clair east of 12th St heading out of town. Those were some busy commercial thoroughfares that were utterly mowed down at some point and replaced with completely bland single story structures. Ugh!
January 25, 201411 yr ^actually, I'd argue that superior is quite intact east of downtown with all of those old warehouses. However, I do agree about st Clair up until east 40th. Do you have any pics of what used to be there? I'd love to know. At Clair has more of a potential for new build than superior because of the views of the lake
January 25, 201411 yr Does anyone know about the interior construction of the small to mid-sized commercial buildings in these images? Some I've seen in Ohio and Indiana are timber framed, and originally little more than a barn with an ornate brick facade. Is that the case with some of this scenery in Cleveland?
January 25, 201411 yr ^actually, I'd argue that superior is quite intact east of downtown with all of those old warehouses. However, I do agree about st Clair up until east 40th. Do you have any pics of what used to be there? I'd love to know. At Clair has more of a potential for new build than superior because of the views of the lake I've seen some on this forum somewhere--will have to do some digging. That's what made me think back to it. Even Superior is a fraction of the density it once was! :(
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