^This is not true for Painesville. Out of a population of just under 20K for the 2010 census, there were over 3,600 Mexicans (out of about 4,300 Hispanic/Latinos); but due to the illegal status of many, the figure is probably higher. But there's very little hiding, since about half the public school enrollment there is now Hispanic.

^BS.  You haven't a clue...and the more you post the more evident it is. 

 

Yeah, it's not like I ever worked in Mexico or anything.  Oh yeah, that's right....

 

The fact is Mexican culture, as practiced in Mexico, is very much misunderstood here.

 

The stereotype is they are lazy and this is based on the "siesta".  Which exists.  Perhaps not as sleep time, but as very little work getting done during the early afternoon.  That's geographical.  They are very diligent and hard workers, even management at our plant in Monterrey routinely stayed until 8pm or later.

 

What they aren't is innovators.  It is an extremely hierarchical culture, almost on the level of Japan or India.  There is a very high degree of relative status and awareness of same.  The "lower" levels do as they are told, the upper has no reason to change things around.  They also, in most cases, don't accept formal training or plan ahead.  There's no preventive maintenance, for example.  Education is not really valued except by the "upper" group, perhaps.

 

This is not meant to criticize the people themselves, or deny that there are exceptions.  But that's the prevailing way.  I'm not interested in having a subculture like this existing within our nation on a separatist basis.  It condemns the bulk of its people to lower class status yet enables a group of "leaders" to demand compromises between our ways and theirs.....which are largely incompatible.

Yes and no. Immigrants mainly come because they have no future in their countries, and see more potential opportunity in the US. If I may be so bold, and I shall, I believe many/most/all immigrants' children would fill our currently crappy-with-exceptions inner city schools with a desperate hunger to excel. They would raise the bar for current students, increase neighborhood safety as vacant homes/properties are filled again, develop shops again, etc. The troubled Cleveland kids would be utterly outnumbered and the stable ones/kids skirting the line would have a chance after this massive migration. Now we havehave thousands of immigrant children, so many of whom are thirsty, craving to learn. Taking nothing for granted. That kind of momentum is contagious.

 

And there is your home run. Relax immigration laws, facilitate immediate property ownership, market campaigns in countries throughout the Middle East, China, Africa, East Europe, Ireland, Africa, and wherever else there are huge existing and potential migration patterns.

 

Forget the xenophobes saying "They Took R Jerbs." Forget the race-baiters saying "What, we're not good enough?" That's just empty noise, nonsense drivel. Immigrants are a grand slam

Yes, they come to America for better opportunities.  But the settle in areas like Texas or major cites like Chicago or NYC, that have jobs.  Even min wage jobs, like my parents did when they came to this county.

Cleveland need immigrants from other parts of this county as much as we need immigrants from other parts of the world, and we need jobs to bring them here. 

 

Erocc, have you ever been to southern Italy?!

Whenever there has been a large influx of immigrants they have grouped together and created "subcultures" and maintained their way of living within their communities.  It doesn't matter what group it was, they all did it.  Germans, Irish, Chinese, Mexican, etc.  They all spoke their own language in their own neighborhoods.  Many German communities even had street signs in German.  It just takes a generation for these things to break up.  Foreign born immigrants will always struggle to learn the language, but you usually can't tell who their children are at school because they are completely Americanized. 

 

This is just the cycle of immigration.  I don't understand why people are so afraid of it.

Erocc, have you ever been to southern Italy?!

 

Nope.  But I know that the Hispanic cultural pattern is similar to that of Italians 100+ years ago.  The same is true with Asian immigrants and the Jewish ones of last century, and to some degree urban blacks and the Irish of that era.

 

The Polish experience isn't that different either (than the Italian).

 

The difference is the numbers and perhaps the proximity to Mexico.  Italians couldn't ask for a special status for Italian when the Poles, Germans, Russians, Jews, etc weren't getting the same.

80% of first generation US-born Mexicans speak English.  I doubt if you compared to turn of the 20th century Italians, Germans and Poles that the figure would be much different.

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/immigration-statistics/

 

 

 

 

Global Cleveland's new website went live the other day: http://www.globalcleveland.org/. It's supposed to be a one stop shop for anyone who has an interest in moving to Cleveland.

If the nation has a more pro-immigration policy, why would immigrants in large numbers come to Cleveland vs. other parts of the country?

Good points, but there's a couple other things to consider.  One is that we had an actual economic need for masses and the space to put them.  That need, I suspect, will come back into play in the next 20 to 25 years, but it's not here yet. 

 

Except that Canada in general and Toronto in particular shows that when you draw immigrants to your city, they create their own jobs. It throws on its head the argument that you have to create the jobs first.

 

I need to double check, but I remember hearing Toronto (Ontario and Canada) actually has a very selective policy and only accepts the best. I believe you must be sponsored, have a job, or be attending University. Im not 100% on that though so Ill have to look once I get more time.

If the nation has a more pro-immigration policy, why would immigrants in large numbers come to Cleveland vs. other parts of the country?

 

When I suggested an amnesty center I was imagining a state/city/federal policy where certain areas would be designated immigration centers. You can get creative in providing incentives for keeping immigrants in a certain area.

Global Cleveland's new website went live the other day: http://www.globalcleveland.org/. It's supposed to be a one stop shop for anyone who has an interest in moving to Cleveland.

 

We would have to market ourselves as the immigration-friendly city, which includes extolling our low costs of living, cultural centers, support services, transportation, training, career guidance, etc. Ironically, if you have more of those kinds of services, everyone could take advantage of them and benefit from them.

 

Consider this: I have a Russian friend who asked for my help in finding an apartment. She does not speak English very well, and thus was not comfortable in talking with leasing agents and looking at apartments by herself. Although she has a car, she does not know the city. She does not know where Lyndhurst is in relation to Solon compared to Broadview Heights compared to downtown. So I drove her around to some apartments yesterday and we found a couple she likes. She loves the Shaker Square neighborhood but thought the apartments were too old, small and in bad condition. She liked the low-cost apartments in Broadview Heights but was not overwhelmed by the area. Interestingly, she wasn't that interested in the Russian Orthodox churches in that area (St. Michaels, St. Sergius etc). She wants to improve her English and become more American, not be surrounded by more Russians. She is a brave person. If I moved to another country, I go find out where the Americans lived/shopped/played and then branch out from there. Some are like that, some are like my friend. So even though she wants to jump into America with both feet, she still wants help in doing so.

 

Those are the kinds of services that would help make Cleveland more immigrant-friendly.

^ that brings up a good point about shaker square. Most of the apartments are owned by one company, which I've heard bad things about. I think that is one of the biggest things hurting the area. If Shaker Square had more modern apartments with good owners I think it would be alot more popular with the younger crowd.

^ that brings up a good point about shaker square. Most of the apartments are owned by one company, which I've heard bad things about. I think that is one of the biggest things hurting the area. If Shaker Square had more modern apartments with good owners I think it would be alot more popular with the younger crowd.

 

Good topic for a general Shaker Square discussion thread. Unfortunately I cannot find one. This is the closest to a general discussion on the subject you've raised....

 

Moving to Shaker Square

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26746.msg595303.html#msg595303

 

If there was an actual project or program of projects to update/replace the apartments in the area, this would be a good thread for that discussion:

 

Shaker Square developments

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7317.msg686875.html#msg686875

here is what detroit and michigan are doing:

 

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209383

Global Cleveland's new website went live the other day: http://www.globalcleveland.org/. It's supposed to be a one stop shop for anyone who has an interest in moving to Cleveland.

 

We would have to market ourselves as the immigration-friendly city, which includes extolling our low costs of living, cultural centers, support services, transportation, training, career guidance, etc. Ironically, if you have more of those kinds of services, everyone could take advantage of them and benefit from them.

 

Consider this: I have a Russian friend who asked for my help in finding an apartment. She does not speak English very well, and thus was not comfortable in talking with leasing agents and looking at apartments by herself. Although she has a car, she does not know the city. She does not know where Lyndhurst is in relation to Solon compared to Broadview Heights compared to downtown. So I drove her around to some apartments yesterday and we found a couple she likes. She loves the Shaker Square neighborhood but thought the apartments were too old, small and in bad condition. She liked the low-cost apartments in Broadview Heights but was not overwhelmed by the area. Interestingly, she wasn't that interested in the Russian Orthodox churches in that area (St. Michaels, St. Sergius etc). She wants to improve her English and become more American, not be surrounded by more Russians. She is a brave person. If I moved to another country, I go find out where the Americans lived/shopped/played and then branch out from there. Some are like that, some are like my friend. So even though she wants to jump into America with both feet, she still wants help in doing so.

 

Those are the kinds of services that would help make Cleveland more immigrant-friendly.

 

Good points.  Has she spoken to said churches?  My understanding is some of the ethnic organizations have these kind of services, though some try to pack you in with "your own" and some dish out the religious hard sell.  Though the Orthodox churches seem almost Catholic in their lack of prosletyzation, which is part of why St. Herman's House of Hospitality is such a worthy charity.

 

I'm not sure Cleveland can be expected to do this on a governmental basis, nor the County.  Some of the suburbs might. 

 

That bolded part, to me, is the most telling.  Even an elbow room addict like me has always wondered why that area wasn't more of a boom town, especially being part of Shaker Heights schools.  I always assumed the crime was a little worse than they let on and that was why.  This would explain it better, especially the kids issue.  If a Russian immigrant, presumably a former Soviet citizen and urban dweller (rural people, for the most part, don't seem to emigrate directly), is saying this....well that's sort of like an immigrant from Calcutta calling the river disgusting.

No, she hasn't spoken to churches. I think that's pretty low on her priority list.

 

BTW, the apartment buildings we looked at around Shaker Square were owned and managed by Montlack. They all needed renovation of historic elements and modernization of heating, cooling, windows and appliances.

 

Anyway...... My point was, steering around these issues is difficult for immigrants, if that's what we want more of in Cleveland. And I think we do. So how do we help them and make it known here and beyond that this help exists in Greater Cleveland?

Some interesting ideas that Cleveland might be able to tap into. Cleveland is mentioned frequently in this article........

 

A Tale Of Three Cities: Detroit, Toronto, And Pittsburgh In A Post-Industrialized World

By Palash Ghosh

on October 09 2013 6:25 AM

 

...La Noue suggested to IB Times that in order to bring in dynamic Asian or other immigrant businessmen and entrepreneurs, local municipalities in the U.S. will need to enlist the support of partners such as the private sector, foundations, and anchor institutions such as universities and hospitals to help in such a major endeavor.

 

”The key is to provide enough support (that is, the ability to get business permits and loans, a responsive police force, English language classes, cultural openness, etc.) to establish gateway neighborhoods where new immigrants can find ladders into the neighborhood economy and eventually the regional economy,” he said.

 

”From the immigrant’s perspective, it may not be so much about moving to Detroit or Toledo, but finding a supportive community where more established immigrants with similar cultural ties can help them adapt and open doors.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.ibtimes.com/tale-three-cities-detroit-toronto-pittsburgh-post-industrialized-world-1417742

No, she hasn't spoken to churches. I think that's pretty low on her priority list.

 

BTW, the apartment buildings we looked at around Shaker Square were owned and managed by Montlack. They all needed renovation of historic elements and modernization of heating, cooling, windows and appliances.

 

Anyway...... My point was, steering around these issues is difficult for immigrants, if that's what we want more of in Cleveland. And I think we do. So how do we help them and make it known here and beyond that this help exists in Greater Cleveland?

 

I'd say let the ethnic communities compete.  More people, even those who assimilate (which few people do 100%) means more clout.

I'd say let the ethnic communities compete.  More people, even those who assimilate (which few people do 100%) means more clout.

 

Except that Greater Cleveland is competing more with Greater Pittsburgh, Greater Detroit, Greater Buffalo, Greater Cincinnati, etc. etc. When communities within Greater Cleveland compete with each other, Greater Cleveland loses.

I'd say let the ethnic communities compete.  More people, even those who assimilate (which few people do 100%) means more clout.

 

Except that Greater Cleveland is competing more with Greater Pittsburgh, Greater Detroit, Greater Buffalo, Greater Cincinnati, etc. etc. When communities within Greater Cleveland compete with each other, Greater Cleveland loses.

 

When they compete to bring people in?  For the most part they are competing with their counterparts in those cities.  If there's side benefits for them, so much the better.

Excellent piece:

 

Cleveland sings a new Rust Belt tune: Richey Piiparinen

 

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/cleveland_sings_a_new_rust_bel.html#incart_river_default

 

For instance, the aforementioned white paper showed that the largest feeders of net population growth into Cuyahoga County were from places outside Ohio, including Chicago, Brooklyn, Queens, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Greater Boston. It is hypothesized that many of these migrants are the young adults fueling Cleveland's revival in the emergent neighborhoods of Ohio City, Tremont, Edgewater, Detroit Shoreway and University Circle, as well as the suburbs of Lakewood and Cleveland Heights. In fact, the latest census numbers showed that nearly 50 percent of out-of-state movers into Cleveland were between the ages of 20 and 34.

 

 

 

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