I just think that if you could get college kids down into OTR for nightlife, you are attracting a stable, generally non ghetto crowd that could really benefit the nightlife in Cincy, and the stability of nightlife in OTR.  Much of the vibrancy of the nightlife districts in DC (Connecticut Ave., Georgetown, Chinatown), is based at least in part on the college crowd.  Compared to other cities, Cincy is famously tough on fake i.d.'s and underage drinking, and as a result many people in the 18-20 age group complain that there is nothing to do at night in Cincy and generally have a view that Cincinnati is boring.  So no, I don't think it would be bad if the city took a little more of a hands off approach to underage drinking and instead acknowledged that they have bigger and more important things to worry about.

I tried plenty of times to get girls to go to the exchange with me. They go there and freak out. They're from the suburbs. They don't want to be in "the ghetto" and the last thing a guy wants to do when they're trying to show a girl a good time is take them to a bad experience. Most people at UC are still afraid of OTR. They would rather go to Metropolis or Mt. Adams or something. Of course there are some more liberal people who enjoy OTR but generally, people are still afraid.

 

Bringing college kids into OTR isn't going to work until the neighborhood itself improves (and I know it is; I don't mean to sound pessimistic).

I'm with Rando. It is time for Main Street to move on. I was there when it was the club scene - 98-02ish. It's not worth because that is not a long term plan for a place. It needs to get a theme of some sort. A couple more decent restaurants would help - not expensive, more the just starting chef stuff.

I just think that if you could get college kids down into OTR for nightlife, you are attracting a stable, generally non ghetto crowd that could really benefit the nightlife in Cincy, and the stability of nightlife in OTR.

 

If only there were some sort of small train that ran regularly between campus and over the rhine...

many people in the 18-20 age group complain that there is nothing to do at night in Cincy and generally have a view that Cincinnati is boring.

 

Well, the people who complain about there being nothing to do in Cincy simply aren't trying.  I could maybe see that argument with some meat about ten years ago, but non-drinking establishments and attractions have popped up several dozen fold.

 

I tell visitors about those very same people:  many Cincinnatians hate Cincinnati, but they don't even try.  Believe me, I used to be one of those people...back in the 90's.

Nightlife belongs Downtown.  I no longer go to OTR for nightlife myself.  OTR had its run with nightlife, now it needs to evolve into more of a community of residents with services offered for those residents.  I want to be able to stroll around the CBD, maybe hang out at the square, eat at a fine restaurant, maybe visit Graeters, then make my way to one of the Downtown Bars.  We finally have that.

 

Mt. Lookout has also been improving over the last couple of years.  You have more options than the typical Millions & MLT.

Building code violations is what brought down Cue and as simple as things like railings (at least this is the info I am hearing).

 

Nightlife belongs Downtown. I no longer go to OTR for nightlife myself. OTR had its run with nightlife, now it needs to evolve into more of a community of residents with services offered for those residents. I want to be able to stroll around the CBD, maybe hang out at the square, eat at a fine restaurant, maybe visit Graeters, then make my way to one of the Downtown Bars. We finally have that.

 

What we will finally have on Main is a 1200 block that will be empty for a while. I agree about the services but as a practical matter, what else is going to go into large open spaces with an existing liquor license? Nothing, hate to say it but nothing except for another resurgence of entertainment type venues. Mixx is proving to be very successful and of course they do have a multiple draw with sushi/club. Cue, god love em, but they were run by some very young guys and when Paul left 6 plus months ago they did not have that experience behind them any longer. This was not a Main Street issue, it was an experience issue in my opinion. The building code violations may have been there opportunity to bow out gracefully.

 

This same issue happened with Michael Spalding. Great creative mind but when it came to business, he waited until it was too late to ask for help. I am almost of the mind that we need the franchise clubs back in large part just to have that business model to work off of. Pitifuls is still Pitifuls, Mixx is doing well, and others can do well also but kids should be going to the clubs and bars, not running them.

 

If we want banks and grocery stores etc we had better be prepared to sit and look at vacant store fronts for a long time.  It makes no sense, from a landlords side or from the tenant side.  We may want to have this as consumers but there are going to have to be a lot more consumers demanding that particular location before it will ever happen.  Kathleen Norris, if you are out there, tell me I am wrong.  This has been floated about by the Chamber concerning Red Cheatah and what do we have?  Lights OFF.

can anyone speak to both Cue and what was supposed to be the speakeasy (japps) being closed, with a note on the door 'closed by the city of cincinnati'...looks like occupancy issues?

can anyone speak to both Cue and what was supposed to be the speakeasy (japps) being closed, with a note on the door 'closed by the city of cincinnati'...looks like occupancy issues?

 

Read post 608 and 593.

Has anyone been to Mixx? I was super-excited about a new sushi place, but it always seems to be having private events.

Has anyone been to Mixx? I was super-excited about a new sushi place, but it always seems to be having private events.

 

We went to happy hour last Friday and enjoyed half-priced sushi.  We had a lot to eat, and it was very good.

Has anyone been to Mixx? I was super-excited about a new sushi place, but it always seems to be having private events.

 

I went there for a private Cincinnatian Olympic celebration event, but ventured off to check it out ... it is a very nice club. Real classy. They did a great job and everyone there was very friendly. The upper floors are done really nicely too. I didn't see anything associated with sushi though, but this is probably because it was later on a Saturday night.

In light of Halloween i was thinking that it would be great if Main Street got the crittical mass of bars back and we could have a Nightmare on Main St. block party. I don't know if this happened back in the 90's because i was to young to drink, but i think it would be another great event in the Natti. I know that most of you are against having Main St. develop as bars, but I think if and when the street car is complete that main st. could develop into a much safer better district and could support shopping and bars in a similar style to M St. in Georgetown.

The red chetah is for sale

 

http://cincinnati.2.homescape.com/SCS/listing_details.jsp?affiliate_name=cincinnati&calling_page=listing_result_list&listing_result_page=listing_result_list&search_by_type=resale_mls%2Cresale_class%2Cresale%2Cnew_const%2Cnew_class%2Cnew_mls%2Cnew_ecom_agent%2Cnew_ecom_broker%2Cnew_ecom_builder%2Cnew_ecom_owner%2Cresale_ecom_agent%2Cresale_ecom_broker%2Cresale_ecom_builder%2Cresale_ecom_owner&tab_num=1&display_default_state_id=61490&community_sort_id=1228701996568&geo_area_id=23273&filter_product_id=43119988

i talked with the owner, and suggested putting in a large keno parlor.

^

It's been for sale for a couple of years.  Looks like they just switched realtors.

oooo the development potential is unlimited, sounds like anyone would be an idiot not to invest in it!

Not much of a shock here. I've heard that it used to be much better, but after switching to a cheaper coffee bean source, the quality has gone down. I've been in only once, and found the atmosphere to be quite lacking. Best wishes to their future endavours.

 

OTR's Kaldi's closing this month

Cincinnati Enquirer, December 15, 2008

 

Kaldi’s Coffeehouse & Bookstore at 1204 Main St. has announced it will close by the end of the year.

 

“Building renovations have led to a discontinuation of the bar/restaurant lease,’’ according to a press release in which owner Jeremy Thompson indicated he might reopen the combination coffeehouse, bookstore, restaurant and live music nightclub in a new location.

I know its been seven years, but truthfully, Kaldi's never recovered from the riots. The air went of the energy there after that. After going at least once a week for the year+ heading into April of 01, including the first couple nights after the curfew was lifted. The energy in that area changed and I don't think ever really recovered.

^I think that might have been a great explanation, say, three years ago.  But really, there are so many more choices throughout the city than there were in 2000.  When it comes to coffee in Cincinnati, there is no shortage of coffee places and music places rolled into one.  Why would I go down to Kaldi's in OTR if I can go to Sitwell's, Taza, Highlands, Tazza Mia, Sidewinder Coffee and Tea, Mammoth Coffee, Awakenings, Iris Book Cafe, Lookout Joe's, College Hill Coffee Co, Coffee Emporium, etc.

 

And honestly, I think the downfall of Kaldi's was Coffee Emporium.  The space is more inviting, it's right on a major thoroughfare, and there's plenty of parking...just a few blocks away.

 

If you're looking for a full menu at a coffee joint, plenty have that now...and late.

I think the downfall of Kaldi's, as we used to know it, was the addition of the bar.  The place turned more into a neighborhood bar than a coffee shop and bookcafe.  The business model changed and the luster of its original appeal was no longer there.

I think the downfall of Kaldi's, as we used to know it, was the addition of the bar. The place turned more into a neighborhood bar than a coffee shop and bookcafe. The business model changed and the luster of its original appeal was no longer there.

 

And the Ohio smoking ban.  I could not believe how much the place wreaked of smoke the few times I had gone in and I never went back after Christmas 2006.

I think the downfall of Kaldi's, as we used to know it, was the addition of the bar. The place turned more into a neighborhood bar than a coffee shop and bookcafe. The business model changed and the luster of its original appeal was no longer there.

 

And the Ohio smoking ban. I could not believe how much the place wreaked of smoke the few times I had gone in and I never went back after Christmas 2006.

 

i don't think the smoking ban had much to do with it

^ they clearly catered to smokers.  A ban on smoking would dampen business. 

^ they clearly catered to smokers.   A ban on smoking would dampen business.

 

or it would expand food business and attract people like yourself who woulnd't go int there because it was too smokey

^ they clearly catered to smokers.   A ban on smoking would dampen business.

 

Are you sure? Are you positive about your assertion? You know, most businesses would adapt to a model and work with it. If their business is dependent on a shrinking minority (smokers) that number only 15% in Ohio, then their business model is flawed.

^Well, do we know that they could be successful in another location?  Do we know they had a successful business model?

 

I was just stating my thoughts.  Are they proven fact...well no.  But they give us something to consider and discuss--which is this purpose of this forum.

The few times I was in there, almost everyone was smoking.  It seemed to cater very much to the neighborhood artist crowd, which I would assume is pretty heavily smoker.  I went once with my friend who smokes after the ban was passed, and was standing outside with him and there was a street fight in which 3 cop cars responded and upwards of 5 people were arrested.  Who wants to deal with that when they're trying to have a nice night at the coffee house? Maybe the smoking ban brought attention to the crime outside?

 

The Highlands is another coffee shop that seemed to cater very much to the smoking crowd, though they still appear to be doing good business when I pop in.  They have a large deck outside with heaters and a fire place, though, so they are more accommodating to the smokers.

The few times I was in there, almost everyone was smoking.  It seemed to cater very much to the neighborhood artist crowd, which I would assume is pretty heavily smoker.  I went once with my friend who smokes after the ban was passed, and was standing outside with him and there was a street fight in which 3 cop cars responded and upwards of 5 people were arrested.  Who wants to deal with that when they're trying to have a nice night at the coffee house? Maybe the smoking ban brought attention to the crime outside?

 

yeah, nobody inside a bar with floor to ceiling glass windows would have noticed a massive fight if they had been inside smoking.  I

The bar was there during its peak in the couple years before 2001. I do agree that it became excessively smoky in the last couple years before the ban (I think that is because the dinner/coffee shop side was increasingly underutilized which pushed the balance toward the smokers and away from those of us who don't like to stink after an evening out. The service got increasingly poor and the food quality declined. I would note for those with less memory, that the coffee scene might actually have been better at the turn of the century than recently.

The few times I was in there, almost everyone was smoking. It seemed to cater very much to the neighborhood artist crowd, which I would assume is pretty heavily smoker. I went once with my friend who smokes after the ban was passed, and was standing outside with him and there was a street fight in which 3 cop cars responded and upwards of 5 people were arrested. Who wants to deal with that when they're trying to have a nice night at the coffee house? Maybe the smoking ban brought attention to the crime outside?

 

yeah, nobody inside a bar with floor to ceiling glass windows would have noticed a massive fight if they had been inside smoking. I

 

Being inside creates a sense of safety versus being out on the street just feet away from people getting arrested...

The few times I was in there, almost everyone was smoking. It seemed to cater very much to the neighborhood artist crowd, which I would assume is pretty heavily smoker. I went once with my friend who smokes after the ban was passed, and was standing outside with him and there was a street fight in which 3 cop cars responded and upwards of 5 people were arrested. Who wants to deal with that when they're trying to have a nice night at the coffee house? Maybe the smoking ban brought attention to the crime outside?

 

yeah, nobody inside a bar with floor to ceiling glass windows would have noticed a massive fight if they had been inside smoking. I

 

Being inside creates a sense of safety versus being out on the street just feet away from people getting arrested...

 

I go to Kaldis all the time, everyone goes outside to watch a bum fight

^Well I suppose "everyone" must be a pretty small group since they are going out of business and all...

 

A few years back Nick Spencer was virtually ran out of this forum for saying that neighborhood safety was the reason why his bar wasn't as successful as he would have liked.  While I agree with most of the people on here that Nick was greatly over simplifying the problem, safety and perception of safety is still a huge issue in OTR, and pretending that it isn't will not get us anywhere.

The service got increasingly poor and the food quality declined. I would note for those with less memory, that the coffee scene might actually have been better at the turn of the century than recently.

 

We had less than great experiences the last few times my husband and I went there for food.  They always messed up something each time.  One time it took three times to get my order right.  I liked their food, but it wasn't worth it.  We decided at that point to only go for drinks or coffee.

my husband went head to head with Nick Spencer for a long time over his saying his reasoning for leaving OTR was crime and had nothing to do with Nick himself. He went to Northside and look at what happened to him there in only a couple of months. Kaldi's story is much deeper than what is being reported and who knows, perhaps the neighborhood is partly to blame, but not entirely in this situation and Jeremy and Collette are great people and are going to do just fine in anything they do after this. I do not when presenting Gateway, or did Michael in presenting the neighborhood as a whole, over simplify the crime problem. We just keep others from over inflating the problems to excuse their own problems.

 

PS

I all floorplans for Urban Sites newest buildings on Main will be made available shortly on our new Facebook Group site under Gateway Quarter as well as all building and development updates.

I've been in only once, and found the atmosphere to be quite lacking.

 

I tried that place three times and it never worked for me.  Maybe they dont like to serve people over 40 or thought I was a street person.  On on occasion I didnt even get a server and had to walk up the the bar to get served.  I was getting a very unfriendly vibe there. If was a "locals only" kind of place that explains this to some degree.

 

The place was not working for me.

 

For Cincy when I go there and get a bite I stop in at that corner chili parlor next to Shake-it Records.  They are actually freindly.  Or Nicholsons for cozy faux ye-olde-Greate Britain and good beer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whatever happened to Nick Spencer?  I thought he also sponsored some sort of music fest?

He probably moved to San Francisco or something. Yeah, he ran for city council, started bars, a non-profit and local music events (one I went to at Sawyer Point and it was incredible!). I guess no one has heard from him since.

A few years back Nick Spencer was virtually ran out of this forum for saying that neighborhood safety was the reason why his bar wasn't as successful as he would have liked.  While I agree with most of the people on here that Nick was greatly over simplifying the problem, safety and perception of safety is still a huge issue in OTR, and pretending that it isn't will not get us anywhere.

 

I agree with you, but I would say that the neighborhood has reached a certain point that we no longer have to place all of our eggs in the public safety basket (which I'm not saying you're advocating for).  Instead I think it is now an appropriate time to focus on other things (cleanliness, neighborhood services, business mix, neighborhood promotion, etc).

He probably moved to San Francisco or something.

 

What's that supposed to mean??

He probably moved to San Francisco or something.

 

What's that supposed to mean??

 

I read Nick Spencer's blog a few years ago. I remember one entry about how Cincinnati needs to be more like San Francisco. He was going on and on about how great SF is. For someone with a strong enough passion to run for city council, he sure did downgrade Cincinnati a lot.

 

I remember him saying (in his blog or on this site) how he didn't win a seat on council because he wasn't part of the elite political circle or whatever. Wasn't he like 25 when he ran? Jeez.

^That, in a nutshell, was Spencer's problem.  He had great ideas and a great spirit about him, but any time he ran into trouble/adversity he blamed everyone and anyone involved except himself.

I'd agree that Cincinnati could learn quite a few lessons from SF, but I def see what you're saying. 

 

 

I'd agree that Cincinnati could learn quite a few lessons from SF, but I def see what you're saying.

 

With all due respect, I think SF could learn a few things from Cincinnati as well. SF severely lacks in public and affordable housing. I don't think anyone should have to 'know somebody' just to get a house or at least a decent deal on a house/apt in their city. At the same time, San Francisco has one of the highest homelessness rates in the country.

I'd agree that Cincinnati could learn quite a few lessons from SF, but I def see what you're saying.

 

 

 

no question

Kaldis was great about 15 years ago. It lost its vibe and it died. 

Jeff asked:

Whatever happened to Nick Spencer?  I thought he also sponsored some sort of music fest?

 

Citybeat has it covered:

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-19760-spencers-gift.html

Couple articles of interest for northern Main Street in OTR.

 

 

An article discussing the history and shifts that have occurred along this stretch of Main Street since the 1990's.

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/02/is-main-street-getting-its-groove-back.html

 

Then Jack Potts Tavern has announced that it will be opening in the former Jefferson Hall space on April 2nd (same date as Neon's grand opening).

http://soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0302jackpottstavern.aspx

What's best for this city isn't another generation of bar owners losing their asses on Main Street.

 

As for the others: haven't we been in final lease negotiations on those spaces for months? That's all I ever hear. You talk to me when doors are opening. Probably ain't gonna happen, and if it does, I'll guarantee you they signed a lease that starts low, but through option and phases, will eventually screw them. That's what these guys do, they're far too greedy.

 

If we're going to get new bars in this city, I'd prefer for them to be in places where they can succeed and grow, not where they shut down every couple years because they're getting hit from both ends-- crime and violence driving away customers, and landlords bleeding them dry for money.

 

Look at the turnover in Mt. Adams or Northside. There just isn't much. There's a reason for that.

 

So please, spare me the 'final lease negotiations' and 'potential tenants'. I'll throw them right on the list with Mercer Commons, the fifth and race high rise, The Banks, and The Next Hotel.

 

No nightclub on Main that refused to go gangster is still around. So this isn't about not working out for me. Hell, it worked great for me, actually. I got to move my business and start seeing real numbers, which is a much better situations than most of the others.

 

And still the question remains: why would any business owner decide to put a bar on Main Street, when they can go elsewhere and pay less to make more?

 

 

 

some of us believed.

Some day I'll reread this entire thread.  In the meantime, thanks Michael for taking a risk and being one of the people who is responsible for the revival of Main St.