Will Main Street ever be main attraction?

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waiting for revival: Antsy merchants

 

By Ken Alltucker

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - Keith Mueller operated the Flowers & Beyond shop just off Main Street for seven years, but he says crime and lackluster sales drove him away.

 

Burglars took a portable phone and stereo equipment during two break-ins in the past six months. The final straw came when a window washer swiped a bottle of Scotch from a nearby bar and offered it to Mueller at a discount.

 

"We're aware of the difficulties Main Street faces and are sensitive to them. It doesn't help if Main Street slides as we focus on Vine Street or Washington Park."

 

GODDAMMIT!!! Why does it always have to be an either/or proposition?

I miss Shadeau Bread. Great soup at lunch and a piece of excellent bread to go with it for just a few dollars. I freelanced last fall at a place on 14th Street, between Main and Sycamore. I felt pretty secure over there, even on late nights, but couldn't help but feel a bit uneasy walking further down on Main. Just not my kind of place I guess, though I love the buildings (the place I worked in was a converted beer warehouse, complete with the requisite hardwood floors, brick walls, and exposed ceiling).

 

It wouldn't take a nation chain of any kind to bring me down there, in fact, it would ruin what I do like about the area. There are a lot of really cool independent shops on Main. I guess for me, and probably for a lot of people, its kind of a safety issue, or at least a perceived one. I really just don't feel comfortable voluntarily going somewhere when it seems like I'm always getting asked for money or if I want to buy drugs. That's defiantly why I stopped going on Short Vine.

I like the stretch of Main south of the Courhouse. Some neat stuff there, like a greengrocer, Ohio Bookshop, the "rude tie shop", The Bay Horse (classic dive bar), an art supply store, and so forth.

It's definitely a step back in time.

mrCharlie,

Shadeau Bread is still here if you're ever in the area. They also do brisk business on weekends. I live a couple stories above them and am a very regular customer.

To answer your question? I don't believe so. Main is a gem but if the Banks ever take off, it will be the main attraction. It will be Cincinnati's "inner harbor" per say.

 

BTW, that article sucked. Cincy Blog did a thread on that article here:

 

http://cincinnati.blogspot.com/

 

Title is: Enquirer Helps Build Fear of OTR

I don't know if anybody caught this in the last issue of CinWeekly (6/15/05):

 

 

PHOTO: Dan Dell, president of Main Street Live, has proposed an ambassador program, where volunteers will walk up and down the street guiding people to parking spaces and directing them to different clubs and bars.

 

Turnaround time

Main Street hopes to regain luster with new name, pub crawls and events to bring people back to OTR

GINA DAUGHERTY | CIN WEEKLY

 

It's been a long time since Main Street has been considered Greater Cincinnati's leading entertainment district.

 

With so many other options in Newport, Covington, Mount Lookout and Mount Adams, the concentration of bars on Main Street is often forgotten in the crush of competition and concerns for safety.

 

http://www.cinweekly.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050615/NEWS01/506150349/1073/archive

http://www.cinweekly.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050615/NEWS01/506150349/1073/archive[/url]

Over-the-Rhine anchor Kaldi's cooking again

'Let's get the creative vibe back in here'

By Joe Wessels

Enquirer contributor

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - When Kaldi's Coffeehouse on Main Street reopens later this month, the goat's head that rested on the restaurant's transom will be one of many things the new owners plan to bring back.

 

Jeremy Thompson, 32, and his wife, Collette, 27, of Westwood, bought the longtime entertainment district anchor earlier this month. They plan to reopen for a preview party during Over-the-Rhine's Final Friday gallery walk July 29.

 

I'm glad to see someone (Jeremy) who has the food service experience take this on.  I have heard very positive things about Collette also (worked for Main Street Harrison and Peter Block), and hope she will be successful. 

HudeEight beers will be on tap - all locally made or with local ties, such as Hudepohl and Burger. Barrelhouse beers -  :-o once made and served at the former Barrelhouse around the corner on 12th Street but now being made in the West End - will be featured. Oh I am so happy after hearing this!!!

 

From the 7/31/05 Enquirer:

 

 

PHOTO: 2004: Clubgoers at the Red Cheetah in the Main Street entertainment district. Some clubs still draw good crowds.

 

PHOTO: The scene outside Alchemize on Walnut Street on a recent weekend night.  The Enquirer / Keli Dailey

 

Main Street aims to revive its vibe

Owners and promoters hope Exile event pumps more music into a district feeling a downbeat

By C.E. Hanifin

Enquirer staff writer

 

Before the April 2001 riots, weekend clubgoers crammed shoulder-to-shoulder inside the nightspots of the Main Street entertainment district, and jostled each other in lines snaking outside the venues. More recently, there's been a lot more elbow room on the streets and in the area's clubs.

 

This week, local business owners and promoters are banding together to lure crowds back to the entertainment district once again. The latest effort, a monthly local music event called Exile on Main Street, launches Friday.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050731/ENT03/507310327

 

Links to a couple of related articles:

 

* Cincinnati Enquirer: Arts could anchor a dream district (7/31/05)

* Cincinnati Enquirer: Final Fridays, condos keep the galleries hopping (7/31/05)

 

From the 8/8/05 Enquirer:

 

 

PHOTO: Sisters Katie and Beth Margolies of Mount Lookout (above) get some fresh air outside RBC's during Exile on Main Street Friday night. Eric Diedrichs and Daniele Pfarr (below left) visit Alchemize while Straw Boss (below right) tear it up at Courtyard Café.  Photos by Keli Dailey / The Enquirer

 

PHOTO #2.

 

PHOTO #3.

 

Main Street pumps up the volume

Local bands help Over-the-Rhine clubs entice customers into 'Exile'

By C.E. Hanifin

Enquirer staff writer

 

On the weekends, Katie Henson of Covington doesn't usually grab a stool at any of the bars in the Main Street entertainment district. But she nabbed a spot near Alchemize's stage Friday night for the inaugural Exile on Main Street.

 

The rousing performances by 500 Miles to Memphis and the other local artists Henson watched won her over.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050808/ENT/508080312/-1/rss

 

<i>In-depth article on WCPO's website. Can anyone shed more light on what's going on?</i>

 

<b>Downtown Business Boom On Main Street</b>

 

Reported by: 9News

Web produced by: Mark Sickmiller

Photographed by: 9News

First posted: 2/27/2006 6:14:51 PM

There's a mini-boom of new development underway in downtown Cincinnati.

 

The activity is on Main Street between 6th and 7th.

 

^ Nice to see postive news although I wish the article was a little more in depth.

Thank God for people like Sarbori Bhattcharya. ;) Seriously though.

From the 5/7/06 Enquirer:

 

 

PHOTO: Queen City Rainbow band performs during Markets on Main. Last year's event may have helped sell condos in Over-the-Rhine.  JANET HILL

 

Main Street, U.S.A.

Sunday markets sell Over-the-Rhine as a place to shop, party and live

BY JIM KNIPPENBERG / ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Ask just about anyone who was there last year and you'll hear something good about Markets on Main, the Sunday afternoon street fairs in Over-the-Rhine.

 

Shop owners loved the series because it increased foot traffic and sales.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060507/LIFE/605070362/-1/rss

 

im gonna try to go to this.  i will be in town for mothers day but screw my mom, im goin to this. 

Last year's Markets on Main were great, although some weeks vendor participation was a little low.  I assumed it was because every week was a big commitment.  I think it will be even better as a monthly event.

I had an interesting conversation this past weekend...

 

In addition to Jefferson Hall (moving to Newport), it seems that these business are closing/moving:

 

Alchemize (probably moving to Newport)

Japps

Harry's Pizza

RBC (not positive on this one).

 

This is pretty disheartening. 

 

At the same time this is going on the developers at Fountain Square are planning the tenant mix based upon, basically, the needs/wants of a 60 year old company executive.  They don't want anything that may draw a young/urban/interesting mix of people, which is just sad. 

 

I'm bummed out.

 

What do we need to do to convince our leaders that they need to listen to the folks who run these places?  Newport leaders call these folks on a daily basis begging for them to re-locate over the river, while our elected officals don't return phone calls, and honestly, really just don't understand what's 'cool', or what the city needs.

 

Jos A. Banks.. woo.

^ Maybe Im naive, but I don't think this is all bad.  Let Fountain Square do their thing, by design they are looking to attract the mass crowd.  Young and old will go there are some point. This leaves OTR to develop as a small buisness, niche entertainment enclave.

 

I used to go to Main street back in the day, but sometimes things need to be mixed up to keep things fresh.  I can't help but think that to some degree Main Street's problems partly stem from the fact that most of the venues have been there for a while and they are tired.  Concepts need to be freshened up every once in a while to keep them interesting. This could be a very good thing.  Recognize there are quite a few empty spaces now, but they cost too much. Maybe rents will come down a bit (my understanding is that they were pretty high - don't know if this is still true) and maybe some new blood will enter the mix.  It would nice to add a couple of real restaurants/deli/lounge to the mix to replace some of the bars for example. OTR is evolving as a neighborhood which I think is a good thing.

I am a long time OTR resident who tries as much as possible to support all things local, however I have never been to any of the places you mention.  I am not 60, but rather a 40ish family man.  I wish these businesses would stay and do well, but is OTR the place for a nightclub scene?  I have never heard any consensus on this issue, and I surmise from your statements that city leaders don't support it either.  I would think the crime and poverty of OTR would have been a hazard from the start 10-15 years ago.

 

Since I don't do this scene too much, maybe you can tell me.  Are entertainment districts in other cities in dense residential areas?  Isn't the noise a problem for residents?  Seems like the CUF/Corryville area is better suited, being near all the students and all.  Does the nightclub scene help the arts/ theater scene?

 

I see lots of residential rehab happening, and a few arts developments along 12th, Walnut, Vine, but what to do with the dozens upon dozens (if not hundreds) of vacant storefronts?  Retail doesn't seem to work.  6,000 residents can only support so many coffee shops and bars.  What can occupy a storefront like Japps or Alchemize? 

 

Not sure of the answer.

I'm sorry, I know I'll sound like I'm jumping down your throat when I say this, but people express similar sentiments all the time, and it drives me crazy.

 

Main Street has been abandoned totally because of this Fountain Square thing.

 

The Square is not, and will not, be an entertainment district. It is shaping up to be a playground for the 3CDC board, with stuffy restaurants, and older-skewing retailers like Jos. A Bank. They have not announced one tenant that would be attractive to a younger, bar-going crowd.

 

And this OTR is evolving stuff... sorry, that's not how it works. The neighborhood can't support eateries, except the ones that cater to the bar crowds. There aren't enough residents. If I installed a kitchen, I'd be out of business in a month. There's no money in it.

 

Please don't try to put a happy face on this. In addition to the ones Mark named, I can add another, but I'll let them do it, not me. This was a spectacular failure on the part of our city leadership, and yeah, Fountain Square hurt it a lot. This city will soon be the only one its size in the country without a downtown entertainment district. What a joke.

Im not convinced that neighborhood evolution is not how it works.  Across the country, urban neighborhood revitalization goes  - abandoned/crime ridden to a few artist bohemian types move in due to cheap real estate, a few bars/clubs open up cause liquor will bring people regardless of safety, wave 2 of residents move in because the area has unique architectural benefits with an urban vibe, and then comes the retail and restaurants.  This doesn't happen overnight.  It happens over a decade or more depending on city size. Neighborhoods are organic and OTR will be what it will be.  Someone correct me if Im wrong, but when Main street flared up 10 years ago as a destination spot, it wasn't because city leaders decided to make Main an entertainment district, but it was cluster of visionary people getting togther to their thing.  The fundamentals of OTR are still there, it will come back - just takes time and some new people to pick up where the old guard left.

 

As for eateries - so don't install a kitchen and go smaller scale but unique.  Melt in Northside is a nice little place - doesn't have a big kitchen....  As for attendance.  It seemed to me that the Diner 2.0 had people come out in droves, they just messed up on execution. 

 

Again, I may be naive, but an eatery with great food and service at a good value AND a unique proposition could do well.  Heck, it be grilled cheese sandwiches, but make it different...different cheeses, different bread, different stuff on the inside and make it darn good and all of a sudden you have a unique place to bring friends from out of town. 

 

I think this another part of the problem on Main.  In addition to old concepts, very little is truly unique to the city, so there is little compelling reason to come to Main Street. At least alchemize tries to a bit different catering to the indy music seen.  But Harry's, RBC and Japp's I just don't see as whole lot different from Arnie's, the Pub, Longworth's etc.  Japp's has been there a long time, but there are now alot of 'me toos' vying for attention.  Maybe Main street needs to figure out how to be unique again.

 

Nick, fully respect your involvement and commitment to the area.  I also respect your point of view, I just not convinced the glass is half empty.

Aside from bars, what I'd expect to see 3CDC try to get on/around the Square:

 

-American Apparel

-Urban Outfitters

-Apple Store

-Natural Foods, Wild Oats, etc

-Virgin Megastore/Tower Records

-Art Film Theater

 

Are they mainstream?  Sure, without being another place to buy a suit.  Will they attract me, a 20-something downtown resident? - most definetly. 

 

I *do not* need another fine clothing store.  If they don't cater to me, I'll move.  Plain and simple.  I'm not the only one.

 

Support main street as is - and try to get some other funky retail establishments in there as well and continue to add residential.  I'm thinking video rental, grocery store, vintage clothing stores, affordable *student* housing and a shuttle to/from UC.  Quick, good food as well.  Make getting rid of the dropinn center a priority.

 

Sorry to sound so negative - but seriously, they have no clue.  Their idea of hip and fun is Jimmy Buffet and a steak at Jeff Rubys.  I have no problem with that, but man, it's not my idea of fun... 

 

Vitality is key.  Appealing to the ipod wearing, indie band listening, art making, organic food shopping urban yuppie is key..

 

Appealing to the 8-5 corporate exec... well, we've paid enough attention to them already. 

 

Main St. does not have to be either/or.  We can have a entertainment district that has a large retail component.  We speak of night life in downtown but money and people need to be here in the daytime also.  The problem with Main during its prime was that it was filled with people at night, dead during the day-CBD is filled with people during the day and dead at night.  With the amount of inventory available now on Main why not put in place a 19 hour plan where as you can have you breakfast and drink your coffee in the morning, shop during the day and transition into diner and then the bar scene at night. 

 

Any other part of town would look at a 3 and 5 mile draw for residential support, why is OTR any different?  Put in destination retail and we will draw from the hillside, from Mt. Adams, from CBD.  I look at the demographics here perhaps a bit different then Nick does and I feel that a strong case can be made for bringing back Main, not as it was, but something better.

Michael - you make a lot of sense...  I just wish we could keep what exists now so we have something to move foward from. 

 

We can handle one, or even two, closings.  When half the street shuts down, however, you have to wonder what made so many people give up at the same time.  It says that support (and I'm not talking just handouts) from the city isn't there. 

 

Oh well.  Hopefully 5 years from now I can talk about how all this turned out OK, but I doubt it.  I've finally fallen in with the negative crowd.  egads.

Dude, you're going to move if another fine clothing store opens? I wouldn't hold your breath on some of the places on your square wishlist. I'd like to see them too, but I can't imagine they'll happen. American Apparel is already coming to Clifton Heights/Fairview. Doubt Apple would leave the Kenwood, since the northeast is where the money is and they're essentially a luxury brand. UO spent a load to rehab the church, and they'd do better among their core market near UC. I think Vespa Cincinnati should move downtown -- but just like these places, I doubt it.

 

But yeah, I know what you mean. A mix of retail, both in kind and in target demographic is ideal. I don't know why these suits can't get it. Surely they've been to other cities on business trips? Or do they never leave their hotel bar?

 

As for supporting Main as it is... I think the only places that come close to doing good business are the galleries and mid century modern furniture places. They've got huge prices that can justify low volume. These other places you mention are the opposite. They need high traffic, high volume to cover costs in relatively low margin retail. I hope Nick chimes in to talk a bit about his understanding of the shopping landscape on Main. But my view is that it's hurting. And this hurting, both on the bar and commercial fronts will soften the residential market.

cramer - I should clarify. They can open as many fine clothing stores as they like.  I mean perhaps even I will someday have to wear a suit...

 

However, what I am saying is that if they don't start catering to the sort of people (creative class, young professional, artists, musicians, foodies) that typically make urban areas vibrant, I'll be checking out and looking somewhere else where I can get those things. 

 

I moved downtown with the hopes that I'd see some positive changes... continuing to cater to the suburbanite, office worker crowd isn't what I was hoping for.  I was probably naive.

Bar scenes come and go.  Few of the establishments in the entertainment district have evolved or changed in years.  Add to that the carryout at 12th and Main that generates loitering and the panhandlers and the scene stopped being compelling for a good chunk of the bar-going crowd.  You can find them at Newport, McFadden's and Mt. Adams now.

 

In my opinion, Main St. above 13th is a better model for the street as a whole.  There is a healthy mix of residential, offices, shops, galleries, and a couple bars.  I think it's going to take some coordinated efforts to fill the larger ground-level spaces, but the smaller ones will fill in if the price is right.  This section has a sustainable ratio of low-income to market-rate housing, too.

I don't know why these suits can't get it

 

I just took over the Comey City Office Commercial Dept and Main St. is first on my list.  The suits now get it.  I think that one of the biggest problems for us in the past is that entities such as the OTR Chamber had to focus on Safety issues and could not work on attracting new businesses to the area.  Things are changing, there is a plan, and yes, it will take time.

 

 

In my opinion, Main St. above 13th is a better model for the street as a whole.  There is a healthy mix of residential, offices, shops, galleries, and a couple bars.  I think it's going to take some coordinated efforts to fill the larger ground-level spaces, but the smaller ones will fill in if the price is right.  This section has a sustainable ratio of low-income to market-rate housing, too.

 

I agree, but from what I understand, the price isn't right. 

What is the price on ground floor retail in the 1400 block of Main, average $/sq ft in general or specific locations?

You can count on a business attracting people from a big radius but you naturally get more business from patrons that live closer. You're talking about opening certain types of stores in a neighborhood that doesn't cater to the neighborhood's demographic. If you want people with disposable money to spend it on Main street then you'll have to focus on changing the demographics of the neighborhood. To change the demographics (and ultimately blight, crime, population) of the neighborhood in a short period of time you're gonna have to put police on every friggin corner. I don't believe in this snowball effect everyone speaks of. If inner city investment created such a great snowball effect then our inner core wouldn't be in the shape it's in. The only thing that can help Over-the-Rhine economically is policing the hell out of it, kicking the poor people out and harassing the people that loiter which is still subjected to moral principle.

Cramer:

 

North Main is a nicer area than any other part of OTR in my opinion, and the only place retail could potentially take hold. But the fact is, most of the buildings either give away the storefronts for now, or have percentage deals. A handful charge really low rents ($200-400). That alone should speak to the weakness of the market. And even with all that, those storefront businesses struggle to stay open. There's just not enough neighborhood, and we actually have less construction going on this summer than the last couple years.

 

Most of the bar spaces are just too big for retail. They could never convert to residential up top, and the office attempts like Digital Rhine failed as well.

 

A place like Melt exists because the market is there for it in Northside. A lot of people with decent spending money live in Clifton and Northside, and people visit the area. Not true of OTR right now. Starting a place like Melt takes a lot of startup cash and consistent cash flow, and OTR doesn't provide that.

 

Finally, I'd say the suits are worlds away from getting it. They're obsessed with the 3CDC target areas to the detriment of everywhere else. Their development tastes skew older. The fact is, we're losing young creative talent workers at the fastest rate in the country, and they apparently don't care much. I mean, they certainly don't have any plans for an entertainment district, and last time I checked, that's pretty important to young people.

 

I agree that the programming at many Main Street bars was pretty weak, but that's any entertainment district. The fact is, they didn't get rid of the shelters.

 

Finally, I would also say that condo boom happened on Main because the entertainment district was there-- that's what made Main feasible for other kinds of investment down the road.

 

Bar scenes don't come and go in Cincinnati-- they just go. This ain't New York. There is no "new" Main Street anywhere, and Short Vine is gone. Its pretty ridiculous. You could say Newport on the Levee is the new place to go, but that's mostly an older crowd and families.

 

Somebody asked me where all the people who went to the Main Street bars back in the 95-2001. I say they're going to bars in whatever city they moved to.

Nick you should post on here more often, many of us read your blog.

Cramer,

Just listed this one,

http://listing.loopnet.com/14647328

 

David,

That is definitely a step that must be taken, but in conjunction with business outreach as well.  There is no one single solution to OTR.  From security issues like you talk of, increase in home ownership, business outreach, and creating a positive image for the community- these are all steps that need to happen to have a sustainable change in OTR.

You're talking about opening certain types of stores in a neighborhood that doesn't cater to the neighborhood's demographic.

And this is why I refer to destination retail.  The existing demographics of the immediate neighborhood, excluding the hill, can not support much of anything, however when Main was at its peak it was not drawing from the residents of Walnut and Vine, it brought people in from everywhere.  My point is that we need to think in terms of what will bring others in from surrounding areas from morning through night.  If you are able to find the same stores, restaurants or bars in Kenwood or Rookwood, we will lose every time.  We need to have something that is unique to Main, yet has a broad appeal.  I balk at the idea of having stores that cater to just a small segment of the overall market however I believe we can have a mix, including entertainment, that is both inclusive as well as uniquely Main.

 

 

Cramer,

Just listed this one,

http://listing.loopnet.com/14647328

 

David,

That is definitely a step that must be taken, but in conjunction with business outreach as well.  There is no one single solution to OTR.  From security issues like you talk of, increase in home ownership, business outreach, and creating a positive image for the community- these are all steps that need to happen to have a sustainable change in OTR.

You're talking about opening certain types of stores in a neighborhood that doesn't cater to the neighborhood's demographic.

And this is why I refer to destination retail.  The existing demographics of the immediate neighborhood, excluding the hill, can not support much of anything other than however the when Main was at its peak it was not drawing from the residents of Walnut and Vine, it brought people in from everywhere.  My point is that we need to think in terms of what will bring others in from surrounding areas as well throughout the day and night.  If you are able to find the same stores, restaurants or bars in Kenwood or Rookwood, we will lose every time.  We need to have something that is unique to Main, yet has a broad appeal.  I balk at the idea of having stores that cater to just a small segment of the overall market however I believe we can have a mix, including entertainment that is both inclusive as well as uniquely Main.

I know there's many factors but crime/safety seems to be the root of it all in my opinion and that's why I said the neighborhood demographics would have to change. If you're looking to draw people from uptown you'll have to also provide things that Ludlow and McMillan/Calhoun don't have. In a city that has a lot of neighborhood business districts, other neighborhoods don't need to depend on OTR. I think the best nichee Main and OTR in general could fill is nightlife but we all know how that is.

Unfortunately, this is what I feared when Jefferson Hall closed.  That was one of the more popular establishments in the area, and now we are going to see the exodus.  Whether you liked the bars or not, this is sad because it added life to the area and now will go back to being nothing.  I wonder if this will impact the new Diner or not.  In all honesty, it seems this area never fully recovered after the riots (most of the bars there had their best months ever in March 2001) and it seems like our men in blue by their inaction helped to solidify the bad reputation of OTR. 

 

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but this was at one time a true entertainment district that developed organically.  It seems as soon as the city tries to get involved everything turns to shit.  When Jefferson Hall closed, I sent an email to Jim Tarbell and John Cranley asking them about the plan for Main Street (at one time they wanted to close it to traffic, make it like Beale St. etc.).  Cranley never replied, and Tarbell said there is no specific plan other than persistence.  This type of approach is why the Aquarium and Hofbrauhaus are in Newport and the Banks cannot get going.  Unbelievable.

Once again, that is part of it.  Why put all of our eggs in one basket?  Why not diversify?  I am not looking to put in anything here that people need necessarily, I am talking about things that people want.  A trendy strip that no matter what time it is, who you are, where you are from, you just want to visit.

 

Security is a must, I agree.  But one sure fire way to a safe and secure Main is patrons on the streets.  One does not happen without the other.

It would be nice to see some 3CDC involvement over on Main St - the old Davis Furniture building, the building above Rhino's, and the corners of 12th and 13th.  If those were market rate apartments, the added eyes on the street would make a big difference.

 

 

Once again, that is part of it.  Why put all of our eggs in one basket?  Why not diversify?  I am not looking to put in anything here that people need necessarily, I am talking about things that people want.  A trendy strip that no matter what time it is, who you are, where you are from, you just want to visit.

 

Security is a must, I agree.  But one sure fire way to a safe and secure Main is patrons on the streets.  One does not happen without the other.

It definitely makes it harder when you depend on outside residents but who am I to complain about your approach? You're doing a hell of a lot more for OTR than I am.

Michael has the right approach. The entertainment district and the gallery were both founded around the same time, with the goal of bringing people TO Over-the-Rhine. The reality is that the only businesses the residential base of OTR will support are carryouts and check cashers. The market rate population is still tiny.

 

And it could've worked. But the city NEVER put enough cops down here, they never cracked down on panhandlers and social services, and too many people came down, got bothered by cracked out idiots, and now they won't come back. A real arts and entertainment district would have three times as many assigned cops. But the city always wants something for nothing, they don't support small businesses or downtown residents, and now they're just shrugging as entrepreneurs lose thousands of dollars, pointing at some Fountain Square project as the answer to everything, despite having practically no tenants named and certainly nothing that comes close to an entertainment district.

 

We all got hung out to dry down here, and I'm furious about it. These idiots should be run out of town for what they've done (or failed to do when it was within their power). What a joke.

Somebody asked me where all the people who went to the Main Street bars back in the 95-2001. I say they're going to bars in whatever city they moved to.

 

I think it's more likely that they got married, had a couple of kids, and now have two big SUVs sitting in their Florence, KY driveway.

 

:evil:

I agree that this group is now a little older.  While Nick implies we are losing our young people, I would say our demographics are changing.  Especially since our metro continues to grow.  Main Street actually started from nothing - I think Neon's was the first in 1991.  It got to the point that even bars on Vine Street were popular, with the always entertaining Warehouse being the most well-known.  Even at it peak, it would only take about 5000 people to make the district crowded so I think if the right product was created it would be fairly easy to support it.  The other interesting thing is that I used to think Main Street was going to be the death of Mt. Adams.  What happened was that Main Street was mainly 25 and over, and Mt. Adams was more the collegiate crowd.  That seems to have reversed in more recent years, but Main Street's demise might strengthen Mt. Adams as the top destination again.

 

Somebody asked me where all the people who went to the Main Street bars back in the 95-2001. I say they're going to bars in whatever city they moved to.

 

I think it's more likely that they got married, had a couple of kids, and now have two big SUVs sitting in their Florence, KY driveway.

 

:evil:

And it could've worked. But the city NEVER put enough cops down here, they never cracked down on panhandlers and social services, and too many people came down, got bothered by cracked out idiots, and now they won't come back.

Didn't business owners in that area get a police substation put in only to ask the police to leave because they were atracting too much vandalism ?

Mt. Adams has extremely limited appeal as a destination. And it can't grow-- the neighborhood can barely stand the bars it has now. There are no bars for original live music. Nothing special really, just East Side hang-out bars for the frat and recent-frat crowd. Its beautiful aesthetically, but hardly an entertainment district for everyone. I like going up there once in a while, but God forbid that becomes the primary option for all of Cincinnati.

 

Sure, people age out of the bar scene. But we're not replacing them with them new young faces. Its not like there's some new entertainment district the kids are going to. The bar scene is shrinking, period.

 

And if you're into something a little more... i dunno... non-meat market/hookup clubs, your choices are getting really piss-poor. There's alchemize and Southgate for some events, obviously, but most nights people are hanging out in Northside in bars the size of my living room. Not exactly packed to the walls these days are we? And at these bars, the general mode of conversation seems to be, why does Cincinnati suck so much?

 

Now before anyone gets mad at me for saying that, know that its true. Not a week goes by that at least one regular at my bar comes up to me and tells me they're leaving town. And you can say, well, stick around, make it better. But you know? I tried that, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Great way to waste your time. Because most people in positions of influence don't want to hear from you, don't want to change, and don't get it. And they never will. This is just not a good place to be, its a struggling city that's got its worst days in front of it, and I see NOTHING that tells me otherwise. You have an entrenched power structure that is spectacularly incompetent, and there is no alternative. For proof, see my own 17th and 21st place finishes in Council races. Can't raise money unless you're in that ever-dwindling circle, I don't care what your ideas are.

 

Our demographics are changing? Nice way to put it. But in case anyone missed the census, the entire region is actually hemorraghing young people with college degrees. The suburbs don't have it as bad, but its still pretty terrible. There is an ever-dwindling market for bars, and anything that skews younger/cooler in this town.

 

There is no silver lining here. Its a flat out pathetic sign that this city is dying. That its getting older, lamer, more suburban, less safe, and more pathetic.

Ha... police substations. What a crock.

 

Know why? Never a police officer to be found in them. The CPD hates them, so they sit empty and yeah, get vandalized.

 

BTW, I called about a prostitute tonight and an officer didn't show up for over an hour. Its safe to say those sweeps are officially over, I guess.