Why doesn't Oakley just have "First Fridays" then?  Every damn city in the country either has final or first fridays, even Nelsonville Ohio. 

Why doesn't Oakley just have "First Fridays" then? 

 

I wondered the same thing.

LOL, this is a John Stossel - "Give Me A Break".  In defense of Oakley, their weekend includes the name of the neighborhood in the title.  They are both in the city of Cincinnati, move on and stop creating pointless news.

[dreaming]why cant they just get to gether and sell a final friday lightrail pass that lets you ride from downtown through Oakley and back all night long for 5$ or so. [/dreaming]

 

why fight over it, Oakley if anything doesn't need as much help as OTR needs. I have been to both and the Oakley FF is so much differant that the mains st one.

Look, marketing, advertising, competition, etc make a difference in success but I went to Red Cheetah a few days ago with some girls and all they did the entire way there and back was complain about the neighborhood being scary. I understand it has gotten somewhat better but it's not good enough. Oakley is a safe area where anyone would be willing to go to, to have fun. Pretty much any business in Oakley is way more likely to succeed.

Couldn't find if one was already here but here it goes.

 

We all know that Main Street has seen better times so if Main Street were healthier what would you like to see?

Me I would like to see a massive strip club complex, three floors, 12 vip rooms.  Additionally, I would want a McDonalds and a Deveroes superstore.

^are you kidding?

I would love to see a sushi place, maybe even one using a conveyor.  I know it's gimmicky, but it would be unique to the region and I think it could be successful if it was well-run.

 

Deveroes has its place, and that place is the store on Race St.

 

My biggest fantasy project would be to see someone reopen all the Main Street bars, after a quick cleaning, refreshing, and remodeling with an eye to design.  They are all so dirty and lame right now.  And also close down the Jordan stop-and-rob and replace it with an international tap room.  Purgatory could be replaced with a wine bar with outdoor seating.

Weedrose,

 

Hopefully your "ideas" never come to fruition.  You want a strip club and a MCDONALD'S for God's sake?

 

Aren't you the same guy that wants to tear down the historic buildings in Over-the-Rhine...and now you want to fill the neighborhood with low-brow, Philistine foolishness.

 

I love kendall's ideas...I would just add that I'd love to see some nice restaurants and street cafes, with tables right out on the sidewalk.  In addition, I think that the city needs to capitalize on the design talent coming out of U.C. and to create an entire district centered around the design arts.  For the long term, the main thing is to get more residential in OTR, which will provide a market for commerce.

I definitely wasn't kidding.  I can't think of any good strip club within miles of the city, the only good one I know of is Diamonds and that's a good drive for most people within the area.  To Kendal's and The Last Don's point I agree that a strong residential base is needed for OTR as a whole and I hope to see 10,000 people in the area before long.  I was thinking plainly of what's not being said often enough.  I want strong independent establishments like hopefully Vinyl and Kaldi's to survive, further I want to see an influx of additional establishments like that to come in.

My thoughts are that Main Street would do well to have a cornucopia of offerings.  It has a strong "historical" commercial backing and it could definitely support businesses of this type.  A Main Street location for a gentelman's club would be one of the best locations as most of the rest of OTR would likely contain low density mix use or high density residential.  And fast food done right could integrate well into Main Street, I don't want to see the entire street qsr but one or two properly done would be ok.

The merchants and property owners on Main will want nothing to do with a strip club complex.  They want to increase the value of their investments, and they are looking for more upscale clientele.

 

 

I aways like the idea of an upscale strip club in DT Cincy. Why not Main St? I see that fitting into a refresh Main St. If it can even be refreshed. They should add a Cleveland-size gay bathhouse too. It would attract people from all over the Tri-State. Even the conservatives from the northern burbs would sneak away from their suppressive wives. Most of us will be dead by the time the buildings of OTR are returned to their former glory.

I'm voting for the strip club...on Vine, across from that Kroger.

The Projects and Construction section is for actual projects only. I'm not discouraging creative ideas but this belongs in City Discussions. Also, there are a lot of Main Streets in Ohio - not just Cincinnati so I changed your title.

Topic merged.

 

LMAO

 

So you guys seriously think a sushi restaurant in OTR would work? Somewhere on or in between Main and Vine? A McDonalds would atleast get some insane business in that area. Unfortunately McDonalds and everyone else does their market research first. Hence the only chain around there being nothing but a KFC off of Liberty.

Well...McDonald's at one time had plans for a huge restaurant at Sycamore and Central Parkway across from the Alms and Doepke building.  Their was opposition to that project, which was in the early 1990s and thankfully it never got off the ground.

 

The fact of the matter is that the Main Street Entertainment District had over 1 million customers per year during the late 1990s, and had a full service restaurant in the Sycamore Gardens complex, as well as the Diner, and as well as Nicola's Ristorante.  In fact, Nicola's is still going strong and is poised to open a second location.  It is a top-notch Italian restaurant by a family from Tuscany.

 

So could a cool sushi place thrive on Main Street?  Absolutely.

 

If it is still there, there already is a sushi place near the corner of 9th and Main.  It is called Ko-Sho, and is probably one of the best sushi places in town.  Everytime I have been in there you feel like you are in Japan.  Everyone is japanese and is speaking fluent japanese as well.

Does Nicola's have a private parking lot or do people have to park in OTR and walk to it? If they don't have a private parking lot and they're going strong then that's impressive, becaues I heard that place is pretty upscale.

Was on main for MPMF... Man, I wish it was that vibrant all the time.  A great experience, despite the rain.

What's MPMF?

Midpoint Music Festival.

 

www.mpmf.com

 

MPMF is the MidPoint Music Festival.  It's held in the Main Street District every year, and is considered one of the best music festivals in the United States for unsigned artists.

 

 

I was down on Main Street on Thursday night as the festival was getting underway.  The vibe was very cool.

 

Oh, I know what that is, I just didnt' recognise the abbreviation. Man I always wanted to go to that but I probably wouldnt have had time. I went to Taste of Uptown last night for a minute but didn't see anyone I knew so I left. They played some Beastie Boys and other famous songs, it was really cool. 

Does Nicola's have a private parking lot or do people have to park in OTR and walk to it? If they don't have a private parking lot and they're going strong then that's impressive, becaues I heard that place is pretty upscale.

 

They'll offer valet Thursday through Saturday (though I was recently there on a Thursday and the valet guy wasn't out).  We never have trouble parking nearby - Sycamore and Orchard always have spots available.

Red Cheetah latest OTR club to close

BY LAUREN BISHOP | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

October 18, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - Red Cheetah has become the seventh nightclub in Over-the-Rhine to close this year.

 

Steve Ross of Indianapolis-based Sycamore Gardens Real Estate, who owns the Red Cheetah building at 1133 Sycamore St., said Tuesday that his tenants walked out on their lease last week (Oct. 10) with no notice.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/BIZ01/610180328/1002/COL02

Red Cheetah might have been sustainable if half of their patrons weren't f$%^ing hookers. Red Cheetah is STD central. Red Cheetah = Red Syphilis. *thumbs down*

Red Cheetah might have been sustainable if half of their patrons weren't f$%^ing hookers.

 

Dang It!  If I'd only known that before it closed!

RIP Bar Cincinnati:

 

 

All these meat markets are the same, in every city, in every college town.  They're all playing the same tunes, the same type of people show up to every one.  These chains are particularly pathetic, hiring midgets and paying girls to dance up on the bar.  I mean, if you go to a real, truly rowdy bar, a midget might walk in on his own accord and the girls might spontaneously climb the rafters or set something on fire, but most of those places are out in the boondocks.   

So I wonder what's up with the positive press on downtown lately (recommend watching the video)?

 

Video: http://wcpo.com/cgi-bin/vembed.pl?vurl=http://real.scripps.com:8480/ramgen/cincinowrs/2006/11/27_iteam.rm&title=9News_Story_Video&banner=wcpocom

 

Transcript:

 

November 27: Main Street Changes

 

Reported and Web Produced by:

Laure Quinlivan

Photographed by: Phil Drechsler

Updated: 11/27/06 17:35:13

 

Clyde Gray, WCPO anchor, on set: Until recently, main street in over the rhine was celebrated as cincinnati's entertainment district. but now most of those nightclubs have closed.

 

Carol Williams, WCPO anchor, on set: The closings have convinced some people that main street is dead. But that's not what I-Team reporter Laure Quinlivan found.

 

I don't think Nick would mind me reposting his comments from the comments thread over at Brian Griffin's blog - Brian had a post on this story...

 

Nick's first comments:

 

Bob Schneider, who is as responsible as anyone for the death of the Main Street Street District, has a pretty selective memory about this stuff.

 

The fact is that the riots drove away most of the original Main Street customers. That's generally common knowledge, but Bob and other property owners didn't want to accept it. They kept charging boom-time rents, even though the district was clearly losing business. This put a lot of pressure on the bar owners to find some way, any way to pay the bills.

 

So some of the venues started farming out nights to independent promoters. These were usually hip-hop oriented events, and many never had a problem. It depended greatly on security presence, cover charge, and dress code. But there were some really bad ones, too, and they did help seal Main Street's fate.

 

It was tough for these bars-- the huge crowds these nights brought in kept them from being evicted, but then a shooting occurs and no one knows what to do.

 

If the property owners had been proactive and thought long term, they would've lowered the rents on the anchor bars after the riots. Then the bars could've spent a little more on promotion or reconcepting, and brought in crowds themselves.

 

Most people don't understand just HOW expensive it was to run a bar in that district, how greedy the property owners were(and Schneider was the worst of the bunch). It made no sense when you could just move out to a neighborhood (like alchemize did) and pay a lot less in bills and get more business, or move over to the Levee (like JHall did) and pay only slightly more but see a massive increase in customers.

 

 

...and then a follow-up comment:

 

One more note: Laure is right to focus on North Main, which is the most successful part of OTR, due to condo developments. But it would be a mistake to think that's the answer for the southern blocks (where the entertainment district was), for a couple reasons.

 

One, Schneider, Stough, and Lenhart (who own most all of the bar buildings) STILL want 5-10k per month for those storefronts. Most of the North Main tenants are paying less than five HUNDRED a month, and many don't pay rent at all.

 

Two, the floors above the bars already had pricey renovations into office space during the Digital Rhine era. So, no one will be converting those into condos.

 

Its tough to understand what the future is for that part of OTR, which is a pretty critical gateway. If the Emery Theatre were home to a major arts magnet of some kind, you might see a couple get filled by restaurants or something. But no new bars are going to open down there unless something new is added to the mix.

 

 

One, Schneider, Stough, and Lenhart (who own most all of the bar buildings) STILL want 5-10k per month for those storefronts. Most of the North Main tenants are paying less than five HUNDRED a month, and many don't pay rent at all.

 

Wrong!

 

Tony's rent at Jefferson Halls was lowered by over 1000 by Bob Schneider. He is under $10 per sq on his bars now and this is in line with what the other bars had been paying. J Hall alone is over 4300 sq ft and that is not including the basement area that has two walk ins, a $60,000, 2 year old HVAC and a D5, D6 liquor license as well as a turn key operation that could be opened within 48 hours. Compare that to a 600 sq whitebox on North Main and yes, the rents are a bit different, I can get you in there for $7 a sq (perhaps less, I know people).

 

I was standing behind the cameraman when Bob was doing his interview, some things were discussed that did not make it into the piece on Channel 9. Steve Ross has signed a new Tennant at Purgatory, Harry's and JHall will be lit within months, we have a potential for Neon's and Dan Dell, Brian Tiffany and myself are actively seeking a specific, targeted "bar" for Red Cheetah, with the permission of Steve Ross.

 

We are being smarter with Tennant mix on Main then in the past, it will not reemerge organically, but calculated, planned and as a combined effort of the landlords, Chamber, Main St. Live and Comey & Shepherd.

Great, hope this all comes to fruition and quickly!

It will!

 

Karen Fricker, Cincinnati resident, on tape "We're from Cincinnati and we're partying in Kentucky. I'd rather give my business to downtown Cincinnati."

 

It is statements like this that really tell the tale. Nick is mistaking about the rent that is being payed by Tony on the Levee

 

move over to the Levee (like JHall did) and pay only slightly more

 

I can not disclose what the dollar amount is, but lets just say it is probably lower than what Nick is paying in Northside.(and there was a fully equiped kitchen) The Levee had and has some tennant mix problems and they know it. They have been too heavily geared towards too young of a population to support night time business. JHall was brought in to help remedy that and the Levee will make up for any loss in sqft cost to Tony by making the other vacancies look more attractive.

^Exactly.  One of the reasons that I hated going to the Levee.

Michael, you need to show your face here more often ... ;)

I am on here almost everyday but I tend to only go to threads that I can actually add some information to (which is about 3 topics).  

I love when you give this insider info to the OTR threads. It's always so encouraging. Thanks!

Sigh.

 

Michael, I'd recommend getting your information on JHall from somebody other than Bob Schneider.

 

JHall is paying slightly more when you look at rent plus common space charges. Their business, last I heard, was up around 400 percent. That's nothing short of spectacular.

 

If you're trying to argue that those bar spaces are anything less than ridiculously overpriced at 10 a square, well, good luck to you. I think the number of vacancies speaks for itself. And I don't even get your argument: if the Levee did give Tony a cheaper deal, what would THAT say about Schneider & Company's greed?

 

Its great to say that Bob reduced JHall's rent by 1k. However, clearly none of the bars were making enough in revenue to pay their bills, that's a fact. The property owners' greed shut the district down, and now a place like Purgatory (never exactly my scene, but...) is being replaced by the umpteenth gangster/ gangster wannabe bar. You keep saying these spaces are filling, all this new stuff is coming, but I never see it. I get that's your job, but come on.

 

Here's my personal example. My rent is less than half what it was in OTR, and my revenue is up about 40 percent. You do the math.

Just to make the point a bit more succinct: why would anyone in their right mind own a bar on Main Street when they can own a bar pretty much anywhere else in the city, and pay less to make more?

 

The only reason is civic interest and a desire to improve that neighborhood. But most folks can only stand to lose money for so long.

Here we go again! Gloves off!

 

:-o

TEAR

 

Michael, I'd recommend getting your information on JHall from somebody other than Bob Schneider

my information comes from Tony. I know what the number is, do you?

 

And I don't even get your argument

I am not arguing, I am stating fact.

 

*Purgatory is reopening FACT

*JHall is in final lease negotiation FACT

*Harry's is in final lease negotiation FACT

*we have a potential for Neons FACT

*we are targeting a specific club to move into Red Cheetah FACT

 

NOW TELL ME I AM WRONG

 

I am not the disgruntled one with Main. It is my job to push Main and any other street in the state of Ohio (they all pay the same). It is not however your job to bash Main St just because it did not work out for you. Why does positive news for Main upset you so much? I want the absolute best for my neighborhood, and as someone who ran for city office, I would think you would be able to appreciate that....or not, who cares. I will say something positive, you will say something negative, I think people are starting to figure it out, you are upset, and that is understandable but let it go-you have moved on, so...move on!

 

 

I see so much potential in West 5th as Cincinnati's nightlife area?  Do you guys see this location as a potential nightlife hotspot?

lol, are you asking us if YOU see so much potential in West 5th as Cincinnati's nightlife area?!?

THe I-Team story about Main St. mentioned a park that was transformed by residents.  Where is this park? 

What's best for this city isn't another generation of bar owners losing their asses on Main Street.

 

The Purgatory space is being filled, that's true. By a bar that is coming out of the gate looking to attract that same crowd that Bob Schneider was complaining about. That new tenant will result in more fights, shootings, violence, and disruption in the district. Count on it. Its kind of like saying its good news that Jump has a potential tenant, Club Ritz.

 

As for the others: haven't we been in final lease negotiations on those spaces for months? That's all I ever hear. You talk to me when doors are opening. Probably ain't gonna happen, and if it does, I'll guarantee you they signed a lease that starts low, but through option and phases, will eventually screw them. That's what these guys do, they're far too greedy.

 

If we're going to get new bars in this city, I'd prefer for them to be in places where they can succeed and grow, not where they shut down every couple years because they're getting hit from both ends-- crime and violence driving away customers, and landlords bleeding them dry for money.

 

Look at the turnover in Mt. Adams or Northside. There just isn't much. There's a reason for that.

 

So please, spare me the 'final lease negotiations' and 'potential tenants'. I'll throw them right on the list with Mercer Commons, the fifth and race high rise, The Banks, and The Next Hotel.

 

No nightclub on Main that refused to go gangster is still around. So this isn't about not working out for me. Hell, it worked great for me, actually. I got to move my business and start seeing real numbers, which is a much better situations than most of the others.

 

And still the question remains: why would any business owner decide to put a bar on Main Street, when they can go elsewhere and pay less to make more?

 

 

THe I-Team story about Main St. mentioned a park that was transformed by residents.  Where is this park? 

 

Northern Row Park at the corner of Clay and Melindy.

Nick you sound pissed off.  What's your likely scenario for mainstreet?

Am I the only one that is happy the bars have left or are leaving main?  :-D I like kaldis still though and support them 100%

No nightclub on Main that refused to go gangster is still around

 

Pitifuls? Well Bob is not exactly the gangster type

The Lab? Not exactly. 

The Exchange, not what I would call gangster. 

Neons, Gangster? please. 

Coopers,ahh -no. 

Vynl the new gangster hangout? nope.

and no other clubs that we are talking to is wanting "gangster" either.  Salsa perhaps, gangster no. And the Club Ritz thing, old news, no more.

 

I'll guarantee you they signed a lease that starts low, but through option and phases, will eventually screw them. That's what these guys do, they're far too greedy.

 

Well considering I am the one who negotiated it for the incoming operator (not Bob), I know first hand that you are incorrect.  So it appears you did not negotiate a deal for yourself that you were able to abide by.  Sorry about your luck but perhaps it taught you a few lessens that you took into your next lease negotiation in Northside.  Some are better at structuring a favorable lease than others and I doubt that anyone forced your hand to sign an agreement that was so terrible. I see bad terms everyday and guess what, I simply advise not to agree to them. You got in over your head, not my fault.

 

As for the others: haven't we been in final lease negotiations on those spaces for months

These things take time especially when there are two seperate negotiations with two different people, one for space the other for a liquor license.  And we will not except just anything, go in blindly or carelessly, I wish more operators would take the time to negotiate better.

 

And still the question remains: why would any business owner decide to put a bar on Main Street, when they can go elsewhere and pay less to make more?

 

How about 3 months rent free (per year/non consecutive months) for up to 3 years and up to $20,000 matching toward build out?  This is our current incentive on Main.  This is from the Chamber, so basically there is 25% discount on club space on Main regardless of the negotiated sq ft amount. 

 

crime and violence driving away customers

anyone have any crime stats floating around from either when the Sherriffs hit the ground,Vortex began, or my favorite-Citizens on Patrol started or comarables from same time last year?  Well lets just take a poll, does anyone feel that OTR is safer or more dangerous now then say last year-or 5 years ago, how about 10?  As a resident of OTR and a person who has an office direclty on Main and who frequents Main daily, I vote much less.

And did you get a warm and fuzzy feeling about Northside at the safety summit?  Hey, I love that place to but my brother in law ownes Casablanca Vintage (tell George I said hello) and I get to hear what happens there as well.

 

Once again I will reiterate my point, you are negative-I am being positive, go figure.  You are an angry,angry person and we all understand that.  Good luck to you.

 

Max,

 

does the bars existing on South Main bother you or are you concerned about them moving northward to where there is residential?  Most (with the exception of Pitifuls and Coopers are not directly below the residential and the sq ft on North Main generally is not conducive to anything other than retail.  The bars play an important part in an overall tennant mix but should not be the only thing or even the most predominant.  This has definetly been a failing of Main all along.

 

Monte,

West 5th is Nick Barella territory, I would ask him who he is reaching out to.