I heard part of an NPR story yesterday that was about Cody's Bookstore, near UC Berkeley, and how it was closing.  The reason stated was that todays students are not interested in the "urban experience" of Telegraph Ave. (what was a dynamic shopping street) and they especially are not interestd in being hassled on the street for change etc.. 

 

That is pretty amazing news to this former northern Californian.  Codys was a real insitution, a great indy bookstore (and they branched out selling graphics too).

 

Telegraph Avenue was legendary.  It started at Sproul Plaza and the Sather Gate, famous in one of Alan Ginsbergs poems..Sather Gate Illumination.  Sproul was the flahspoint of the Free Speech Movement that kicked off the 1960s student protests...and Telegraph Avenue was the epicenter of all this, too. 

 

True about Telegraph Avenue having pandhandlers and crazy people.  It was that way in the 1980s when I visited.  But it had a lot of shops and stuff too, sort geared to the students/bohemian crowd.  A bit like McMillan up by UC, or maybe a big like Ludlow in Clifton, too. 

 

The situation must have gotten worse as UC Berkley had a pretty liberal student body, or was reputed to. 

 

But, man o man sorry to hear about Codys closing!!!

 

 

A few months later, the boardinghouse closed. Its owner, Frank Fieler, has spent more than $2 million to convert the 75-room Fort Washington Hotel into 10 upscale condos, at up to $399,000 each. Seven of the 10 units are sold. Higher-priced units remain. The neighborhood trouble spot, the Bay Horse Café, closed in 2005 after a February shooting incident left one man dead, and the bar's liquor license was revoked.

 

Other new ventures include the Manna Vegetarian Deli. Owner Eric Lusain relocated his business to 633 Main St. in August 2004 thanks in part to a $175,000 loan from the city of Cincinnati. Another small business, Embrace Sweets, shares space in Lusain's deli. Across the street, developer Neyer Holdings is converting a vacant office building into four condominiums of roughly 1,250 square feet each, with first-floor retail and a rooftop deck.

 

Bhattacharya opened her new business six months ago. Balance Stress Management and Massage offers a one-stop shop for reducing stress-related illnesses. Psychiatric counseling, massage therapy, acupuncture and personal training are among the services offered. She's trying to market those services to companies, noting that employees miss an average of 20 days a year from stress-related ailments. She figured downtown was a good location because of its high concentration of daytime office workers. But other factors weighed on her decision, too.

 

That stretch of Main, south of the Hamilton  County Courthouse, plus nearby streets like Court, is one of my favorite parts of downtown Cincy.  It just has a neat funky vibe going on there, though it seems to be losing the poorer population with the gentrification thing.  There is a greengrocer, a neat little tie and shirt shop (or used to be) and the great Ohio Bookshop for used books on Main.  There used to be some interesting things on Court too, but they closed.

 

 

 

'ideal center for nightlife':

 

-1 Movie theatre

-1 bar...2 on a good day (Haufbrauhaus would be 3)

-1 Club

-Shopping closes early

-No nice riverwalk to enjoy the river (PPB does not count-both Cincy and Nky)

 

This does not sound ideal to me...it actually sounds quite similar to the scene at Cincinnati Mills, but closer to downtown.  Main St offers these amenities and MUCH more (except movie theatre). 

 

Just to set the record straight about NoTL with respect to nightlife:  add Funnybone, Shadowbox Cabaret, Tropicana's red hot bar scene.  There's Bar Louie, and now Jefferson Hall.  Across the street: Arnie's, Hofbrauhaus, Southgate House.  By my count, that's five bars, movie theatre, stand-up comedy, and sketch comedy, plus a great live music venue.

But, man o man sorry to hear about Codys closing!!!

They ended the story by saying that a newer version of Cody's was opening in the "Fourth Street" shopping area.  Actually, thats what reminded me of Jefferson Hall moving from Main to Newport, and that is my point.  If people are given the choice, they will go where they won't be hassled or feel endangered, and this is where the businesses will also move.  A private development (mall) will always have this advantage over a public street, but some public streeet are also better attended and managed than others, aka Main Street.

I do not think that NOTL is a complete package, neither is Mt. Adams, CBD or Main.  But all of this within .5 mile radius of one another could present a strong entertainment and retail offering.  Does this need to be strenghtened?  Of course, and in my opinion it will be.  When people say that we need a movie theatre downtown, I say we have one and within walking distance.  We need more restraunts downtown, we have dozens, within walking distance.  We need nightclubs downtown, I can walk to Mt. Adams, Newport, Main, dozens of bars dot the streets of downtown and once again, I can walk to it.  We need shopping like furniture (dozens) large box (Macy's and Sacs) there is a mall, crappy mall, but a mall, boutique retailers, Findlay, and I can walk to them all. 

 

When you look at it this way, how do we compare to West Chester Blue Ash, Montgomery or any other suburb?

 

The "Greater Downtown" area needs work, and one day we will have the Banks to add to the list and McMillan Park, but we have a lot more than what is given credit to it. 

I heard on the radio today that there is nothing you can get downtown that you can not get in the suburbs, how about baseball, football, concerts, anyone ever eat at a Hamburger Mary's in Kenwood?  Ever go to one of the largest open air food markets in the country in Montgomery?  Anyone here ever see Phantom of the Opera in Amberly Village?

Anyone here ever see Phantom of the Opera in Amberly Village?

 

As a matter of fact I did... it was quite touching...

I do not think that NOTL is a complete package, neither is Mt. Adams, CBD or Main.  But all of this within .5 mile radius of one another could present a strong entertainment and retail offering.  Does this need to be strenghtened?  Of course, and in my opinion it will be.  When people say that we need a movie theatre downtown, I say we have one and within walking distance.  We need more restraunts downtown, we have dozens, within walking distance.  We need nightclubs downtown, I can walk to Mt. Adams, Newport, Main, dozens of bars dot the streets of downtown and once again, I can walk to it.  We need shopping like furniture (dozens) large box (Macy's and Sacs) there is a mall, crappy mall, but a mall, boutique retailers, Findlay, and I can walk to them all. 

 

When you look at it this way, how do we compare to West Chester Blue Ash, Montgomery or any other suburb?

 

The "Greater Downtown" area needs work, and one day we will have the Banks to add to the list and McMillan Park, but we have a lot more than what is given credit to it. 

I heard on the radio today that there is nothing you can get downtown that you can not get in the suburbs, how about baseball, football, concerts, anyone ever eat at a Hamburger Mary's in Kenwood?  Ever go to one of the largest open air food markets in the country in Montgomery?  Anyone here ever see Phantom of the Opera in Amberly Village?

You're saying that there are so many great places that downtown has that the suburbs don't....I suppose that not enough people go there because it is also a "marketing" problem.

^I would say marketing and image both.

^ I agree with Uncle Rando

Marketing, Image and Reality.  I mean its not like we imagine the crime, it is real.

 

The "Greater Downtown" area needs work,

Michael, you are a master at under-statement.  Basically you are saying that OTR is ok because from here you are within walking distance of lots of great places. My perspective is that the poor condition of OTR negatively affects Mt. Adams, Clifton and CBD.  If OTR was safe, clean and profitable, it would change the whole dynamic in the basin.  As it is, even the successful businesses in OTR are struggling.  IMHO they are primarily struggling because of crime.  But they also struggle because if given a choice between two destinations, people will choose the one without the crackheads.

Marketing, Image and Reality.  I mean its not like we imagine the crime, it is real.

 

The "Greater Downtown" area needs work,

Michael, you are a master at under-statement.  Basically you are saying that OTR is ok because from here you are within walking distance of lots of great places. My perspective is that the poor condition of OTR negatively affects Mt. Adams, Clifton and CBD.  If OTR was safe, clean and profitable, it would change the whole dynamic in the basin.  As it is, even the successful businesses in OTR are struggling.  IMHO they are primarily struggling because of crime.   But they also struggle because if given a choice between two destinations, people will choose the one without the crackheads.

Jimmy-

I completely agree.

 

Unfortunately the reality also is that certain people have too much pride in their neighborhood/city to handle the truth even though it would be in everyone's best interest to acknowledge the root of the problem.

^-----Some people see an empty storefront and say, "This would make a great place for a coffeehouse or bookstore!"

 

    Others see the same empty storefront and say, "This place has seen better days. I wonder what used to be here?"

 

    Finally, there are those that say, "Let's get outta here."

^very very true! I am not here saying that we have no problems nor am I going to say that there are no solutions. Admitidly I fall in the first crowd , I would not have moved down here and invested as much into the neighborhood as I have if I didn't see a brighter future, but at the same time, if I were the "Let's get outta here" group, how do we ever convince others to help bring this neighborhood back?

 

Basically you are saying that OTR is ok because from here you are within walking distance of lots of great places.

Actually my point was that 700 WLW made the statement that there was nothing in downtown that you could not get in Kenwood. I disagree. Now I do agree that we will lose against the suburbs if we just put the same offerings here as you can get there due to issues such as safety, parking, marketing, perception, retail and entertainment mix, prostitutes, crackheads and the like.

 

OTR is by far the weakest link in the chain. (there, I said it) but it is not a lost cause. I know that many people feel that way, however we only need a few to believe in order to bring about a change. If everyone jumps on the "Lets get outta here" bandwagon, then we are doomed, why waste our time trying.

 

David,

Problem(s) acknowledged, now what? Start working towards the future for OTR? In order to do that we need acknowledment from at least a few that there is one.  I believe, and I live OTR morning noon and night, I see the investors, I see the homebuyers, I see the developers- they believe as well, yet people here from our own community are the one's willing to throw their hands up first.  I say hang in there, but if you can't, or won't, I understand.

 

Actually my point was that 700 WLW made the statement that there was nothing in downtown that you could not get in Kenwood.

 

That actually could be a plus for downtown.

In a few weeks I will be celebrating my second anniversary of living in OTR.  The only thing that bothers me about living here is the uninformed drivel about the neighborhood that belches forth from the gaping maws of overfed and under-exercised suburbanites.  I  want to tell them that I lived more on my walk to work this morning than they have all week.  But they wouldn't understand, because to them living is watching American Idol and griping about traffic.  My point is this: OTR has a future, but it is not in catering to chain-worshiping, car-oriented suburbanite cogs.  There are a lot of people in this town that are capable of appreciating a walkable city neighborhood full of variety; people for whom OTR is *this close* to being within their comfort zone.  I applaud the efforts of Michael and others who are dedicated to making OTR the phenomenal neighborhood that it can be.

Actually my point was that 700 WLW made the statement that there was nothing in downtown that you could not get in Kenwood.

 

That actually could be a plus for downtown.

 

Hmm... Saks, Tiffany, Brooks Brothers, Contemporary Galleries, contemporary gifts (CAC gift shop, Metronation), persian rugs, handmade hats, Cappel's costumes, a classy dinner, and a shoe shine come to mind.

^

dont forget Fountain Square News.  Check out their international section if you are in the neighborhood somteime.

 

 

I promised myself I wasn't going to comment anymore, but I can't stop:

 

Michael and Kendall;

Would you still be as optimistic if you had been here 17 years investing and working for change, and OTR only got as far as it is today?  That is my perspective.  Ask yourself this:  What will Vine Street look like in 10 years?  Will it be better or worse? I cannot honestly say it has improved in the past 10 (except the 1100 block).  Hopefully it will be dramatically better but, jeesh the pace is so slow, hoepfully it will be more than one block a decade!  Actually, I'm not really sure there has been change on the west side of OTR at all.

 

I have a thick skin and like you probably are, I am here to stay.  However, we must wake up to the fact that others will continute to leave if the situation does not improve.  I have a tenant moving out next month.  She had her car broken into several times, and she does not feel safe being out after dark.  Plus her peace is often disturbed by some neighbors in a Model Mgmt building playing loud music at 4am, and seeing crackheads smoking thru broken antennae, and ***ing in the alley.  I think I read a quote from a guy moving out of NYC in the 70's that went something like this "you know civil order has broken down and it's time to leave the city when you cannot go the the playground with you kids because some mental patient has used the sandbox as a toilet".  Of course NYC has turned around, and so could we.  But it is not inevitable.

 

Urban citizens must asssert that they have had enough of this abuse and that they want the streets to be civil and safe for everyone. 

Jimmy, I think we are simply looking at different sides of the same coin.  I was here in 94 and lost a business and close to a million on 7th Street.  In '91 I was almost killed at the base of the stadiums by a random act of violence (still have the scar).  My car had been broken into on Mulberry, Oregon St. and Martin Dr.  My and my wifes lives were threatened in front of our homes by a now convicted crack dealer.

 

That being said, right this moment I am looking at a drunk, sitting across the street from my office at the base of a borded up building.  Paint is pealing, and I think that may be a prostitute across the street.  If I were just driving by, I would say look at this, OTR is a mess.  But I know different, because that building is under construction on the inside, Vernon Rader has that building and 4 others around it.  3CDC project on your side of OTR, B2B in the 1200 Block of Vine, Urban Sites across the street on Vine.  New homes on Conroy by the Walters (that is OTR also) Hohlbein working on new construction and rehabs on E. Clifton and Peete.  North Main looks much better than it did 10 years ago, I am sitting at North Main right now.  We have projects in and around Main that I am not allowed to speak about just yet but they will be a huge shot in the arm.

 

My fear is that by putting out the message that OTR is a war zone, how do we ever back out of it.  If and when things turn around down here, there will still be a tremendous number of peopel (and probably the majority) who's last image of OTR is war zone, unsafe, unihabitable mess.  If a person was interested in living in OTR now and was reading this thread, I guarantee that they have changed their minds by now.  How much investment have we lost because of what people have heard about OTR, not experienced, just heard?

 

As I said, we are looking at different sides of the same coin.  I am putting a positive spin on OTR to combat the negative spin that has been going around for years.  The negativism is what makes us the perfect dumping ground.  If people saw and heard about all of the potential here (and reality) then perhaps they would help save this place.  Otherwise, who cares about OTR, its a waste.

 

Urban citizens must asssert that they have had enough of this abuse and that they want the streets to be civil and safe for everyone.

 

Then come join citizens on patrol with me.

Michael, I love your attitude and keep up the faith!  The fact is the vast majority of project in OTR are very small, one to two unit buildings or units, that get no press.  If it wasn't for a forum like this, we probably would not even be aware they were ongoing.  Every time I drive through OTR, I catch a glimpse of a newly painted building or a building in the middle of a rehab, but you will never see this on the news.

 

I think I asked before, but if anyone has some numbers showing new units brought online in OTR over the last 5 and 10 years, I would love to see them.

........  I  want to tell them that I lived more on my walk to work this morning than they have all week.  But they wouldn't understand, because to them living is watching American Idol and griping about traffic. ........

 

you almost made me cry. ;) That's EXACTLY how I feel as I walk along 12th St. every day.  I don't live there, so I don't have to endure what you, Jimmy Skinner, Michael R. and others do.  I have never been threatened, robbed, had my car broken into, etc. I don't own a business there, just work near and walk around OTR a good bit. Last week for example a cop was slowly cruising down 12th next to Washington Park  blaring "Walk the line" through his speakers.  Some old nasty lookin' dude looked up and yelled "Hey, that's Johnny Cash!!".  It was classic.  Even in it's uglier bits there is a sense of community there that is very tangible - at least to me. I believe it is that sense that keeps you guys swinging.  I just hope it is strong enuf to endure.  I think and hope that the tipping point, the critical mass is close - MAYBE then we will see the 'sudden' explosion of good stuff that WILL make the news.

Once hip, but not hopping

Entertainment area has lost many hot spots

BY JON NEWBERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Three years after the city of Cincinnati dropped plans to hire an out-of-town consultant to revive the Main Street nightclub district, a new push is under way by merchants to bring the excitement back to its streets.

 

The once-bustling entertainment district has been declining in popularity for several years, and it was stung recently when a handful of clubs near the key intersection of Main and 12th streets closed or moved. Several others are thought to be wavering.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/BIZ01/606290348

Its almost as if the Enquirer has an UrbanOhio information gatherer.  We have been having this exact conversation since Sept 13, 2004.  Interesting to see the Enquirer was beat to the punch on yet another issue.

>I have never been threatened, robbed, had my car broken into, etc.

 

Well you're either lying or emit some sort of force field.  I haven't even lived in town for three years and in my visits back have been threatened there over ten times, had batteries/rocks thrown at me numerous times, had the car I was riding in kicked by a woman with a cast on her foot insisting that it "ain't our car", had a man at the corner of Central Parkway and Plum ask for money to ride the bus "to Hamilton" and then pull a knife when I didn't, my brother's car was broken into at the corner of Vine & 4th St., and I was one block away and just out of sight when the man was shot outside the Bayhorse Saloon last year.  All this from a grand total of about 40 days in the city in the last 3 years.

 

The police absolutely aren't doing their job, there's no reason why citizens themselves should have to do the job their taxes should be paying for.  A month of an overwhelming police presence would put an end to it and as soon as it flares back up, bring the police back in.  Sure, you'll see one or two cruisers in OTR at any given time, but there needs to be a traffic jam of police there.     

 

 

 

"The police absolutely aren't doing their job, there's no reason why citizens themselves should have to do the job their taxes should be paying for"

 

We do this because it is also our responsibility.  We don't say I am not going to pick up the litter in front of my home because we pay the taxes for people to do it for us, why do we say the same about safety? I want a safe neighborhood and if it means walking the streets a time or two a month then so be it. OTR is not the only one with a citizens on patrol, as a matter of a fact, up until now we were one of the only ones without one. There is every reason for us to be doing this.

 

I was in Chicago for beginning of this week on business. Visited Rush Street and loved it. I counted several dozen people begging for money but man, what a town. I saw everything that Main could be but is afraid to be. Certainly I am happy that Main St. is reaching out, and hopefully there is a willingness to change, because the change will happen one way or the other.

Well I've met OTRfan and he does emit a forcefield of goodwill...

I think the idea of a month of heavy police presence is somewhat wrong-headed.  That's kinda the attitude they have now: sweep in and make lots of big arrests, then pull back.  The police need to have a constant presence, not to necessarily arrest more people, but to give the area a sense of safety and order.  They say they don't have enough officers.  Not sure if that is true or not, but if it is, then hire them.

I believe there is a proposal on the table for 100 more but I am not sure where that stands.

(Apologies if this belongs in the Cinci Crime thread)

 

I believe there is a proposal on the table for 100 more but I am not sure where that stands.

 

According to the Enquirer:

A majority of Cincinnati City Council members wants to put 100 new police officers on city streets in the next two years.

 

The city Finance Committee passed a 13-point resolution that will be voted on by council Wednesday. The resolution carries six signatures, meaning that it already has the votes to pass.

 

The resolution is a combination of all nine council members' ideas of what should be in the budget.

 

The proposal is supported by council members Chris Bortz, Leslie Ghiz, Jeff Berding, Cecil Thomas and John Cranley. David Crowley signed but said he has questions about how many new officers are needed.

 

The 100 officers would be used to beef up foot, bicycle and mounted patrols, along with expanding the Over-the-Rhine Task Force - an effort that led to almost 1,100 arrests in 28 days in April and May.

 

However, no amount of police can do what a healthy community does for itself.  What Michael and the OTR Citizens on Patrol are doing (kudos to you by the way Michael) is showing that there are people in OTR that care about the community.  It's a decided minority right now, based on what I've seen, but how much of that is because people really don't care and how much of that is because people are too intimidated to correct idiotic and criminal behavior I don't know.  Police cannot, by themselves, make a neighborhood safe.  Think about it, where do you feel safest, where there are a lot of police around or where you never see a cruiser?  The police cannot do it by themselves, the community has to be leading the improvements.  The police are an important piece of the solution, but they are not the whole solution, not by a long shot.

Well you're either lying or emit some sort of force field.  I haven't even lived in town for three years and in my visits back have been threatened there over ten times, had batteries/rocks thrown at me numerous times, had the car I was riding in kicked by a woman with a cast on her foot insisting that it "ain't our car", had a man at the corner of Central Parkway and Plum ask for money to ride the bus "to Hamilton" and then pull a knife when I didn't, my brother's car was broken into at the corner of Vine & 4th St., and I was one block away and just out of sight when the man was shot outside the Bayhorse Saloon last year.  All this from a grand total of about 40 days in the city in the last 3 years.

 

I dont know but this seems to be a bit extreme to me.  I've been down to OTR on a much more regular basis than 40 times over 3 years and I have also never had an encounter of these sorts.  Sure I have had people ask me for money (just like every other city in the US, even less demanding than most) but never have they done any more than ask for some money and then stay stationary while I walk by.  I'm not denying that it happens but your overall story seems either extremely unlucky/unfortunate or extremely obnoxious/sensational.

Thank you Horosho and Kudos to you also. When the idea was first floated out there about an OTR COP, we had many people who wanted to sign up. The unfortunate reality is that the training was right in the middle of the work week and not condusive to many peoples schedule. The other is that some things sound better in theory than the reality of actually having to do it, well it is a bit tougher. Others I believe simply do not want to be the first, lets see how it goes and then we will sign up. I have no problem with that either, it simply means that this program will grow.

 

We should all feel a bit better about this article that came out in the Enquire and this discussion here. I believe it was Jimmy who said earlier that there is no will to change Main St. This is a sign that perhaps there is, perhaps there is some realization that something should and can be done here and maby it should be done differently and better thought out.

"The old business model's just not working anymore," said Dell, who no longer owns the tavern. "It's gonna take planning this time. The first time it took no planning."

I haven't even lived in town for three years and in my visits back have been threatened there over ten times.....

I am in OTR on a daily basis & have had fewer than 10 bad experiences there in about 25 years.

Are you giving your dealer/pimp a hard time ?

I haven't even lived in town for three years and in my visits back have been threatened there over ten times.....

 

I had a client of mine who went to High St in Columbus once to look at a building to purchase, he was beaten and robbed. What does this say about Columbus? Nothing.

He still bought the building.

 

Everyone understands that safety is an issue here and actions are being employed to help combat that. COP, task force, and don't forget about the Sheriffs on Aug. 1. But OTR can not be truly safe without it being vibrant and it can not be vibrant without it being safe, they are interrelated and we must work toward both simultaneously, not one then the other.

That I usually was carrying a camera had a lot to do with it, because those people really hate cameras.  I remember the first time I ever took a camera down there some girl asked me if I owned the buildings I was photographing, and I was in high school.  That simple encounter really shocked me into realizing what a distorted view of white people those people have that has been reinforced endless times since.  I was down there fairly regularly 1995-2001 and was jeered at, asked if I was the police, etc., but never threatened or actually hit by anything.  Aside from a friend's date's car getting broken into across from the old Blue Wisp location, I don't remember any major problems downtown or in OTR during that time.  I was out of town entirely in 2002 and things seemed to really deteriorate by the time I got back in 2003.  This is when the white T-shirt gangs started appearing all around town and guys buzzed through crowds on the sidwalks on those cheap plastic scooters.  At that time I didn't own a car and I borrowed my grandma's with explicit instructions not to drive through OTR and I drove through anyway and sure enough the damn thing got hit by a rock and dented above the back right tire.  I was riding through in a friends car that also got hit and a third time when the car was kicked, all three times were right by Kroger.  He was also with me last year when the guy was shot outside the Bayhorse.  He was a guy you sometimes see on Cincinnati boards who goes by the alias Tominabox, so if you see his name write him and he will vouch for these stories, although he has moved to Florida and doesn't write on the boards as much. 

 

As for Citizens on Patrol, I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what you do or how often you do it.  I do know that a drive through OTR at virtually any hour will be met with gangs of men hanging out on corners, obviously either dealing or spotting for dealers.  A heavy presence might only push more activity over to Linn St. and the West End or elswhere in the city, but the fact is OTR is special in that it is between downtown and UC.  The eastern half of OTR and other specific spots have improved, but the constants are the drop-inn shelter, the various soup kitchens, the boisterous scene at Washington Park and the lawless drug dealing between Walnut and Elm St. 

I've been in OTR several times during the past month.  The worst that has happened is that someone asked for money.  I'm usually in the CBD 6 days a week, and my experience has been the same. 

So, if one were considering a potential move into OTR, what would you go for, Orchard St or Elder St on the north side of Findlay Market?

 

Living on Findlay would be in a building a friend is buying, is cheaper, wireless internet, more secure, bigger, arguably nicer. Orchard is more in my territory, and I feel like I know my way around a bit more. It strikes me as being safer. Of course, the friend who is buying the building on Elder was pistol-whipped on Main last fall, so maybe not.

 

Let me know your thoughts. I'm guessing jmecklenborg is against it.

^That I usually was carrying a camera had a lot to do with it, because those people really hate cameras.

 

That must be the case, because I was either living or hanging out in Over-the-Rhine from Jan. 2001-July 2003, and the worst experience I had was when my passenger side car window was smashed.  You obviously have plenty of bums and non-bums who think they can intimidate the average looking chump (yours truly) asking for change all the time.  I've found that ignoring them to be pretty effective in dealing with such people during the day, and outright hostility at night worked pretty well, whether it be a result of natural rage or intoxicated indignation.  My sister and I bought a property at 1532 Pleasant St., (since sold to 3CDC) and while she and her boyfriend checked out the inside I stood outside, across an empty lot where a young guy was clearing standing with his presorted stashes of various drugs arrayed along a brick wall where the mortar was missing, like shelves of a convenience store.  He looked at me, mostly out of curiousity I suppose, and went back to waiting for his runner to come around with the next prescription.  A pretty ghetto experience, and nothing happened.  Redmond makes a good point though about people need to take a certain amount of responsibility for their own safety.

 

The police absolutely aren't doing their job, there's no reason why citizens themselves should have to do the job their taxes should be paying for.  A month of an overwhelming police presence would put an end to it and as soon as it flares back up, bring the police back in.  Sure, you'll see one or two cruisers in OTR at any given time, but there needs to be a traffic jam of police there.

 

I think jmeck's right on this point.  There was a real slowdown in police activity after the riots, and the crime rates show that (sorry I don't have a reference for that).  Respect to the police, but the amount of complaining these guys do about City Council and specific politicians is ridiculous, counterproductive, and baffling.  Crime isn't nearly as bad in Cincinnati as it is in comparable cities, no matter what The Enquirer says; hiring more police officers would be great if the City could afford it, but even then the Union leadership needs to focus on policing and quit pissing contests with local politicians.  The only politics the Cincinnati FOP should be concerned about is why all the black cops still belong to the Sentinels and there isn't one union, regardless of race after all these years.

 

So, if one were considering a potential move into OTR, what would you go for, Orchard St or Elder St on the north side of Findlay Market?

 

Living on Findlay would be in a building a friend is buying, is cheaper, wireless internet, more secure, bigger, arguably nicer. Orchard is more in my territory, and I feel like I know my way around a bit more. It strikes me as being safer. Of course, the friend who is buying the building on Elder was pistol-whipped on Main last fall, so maybe not.

 

Let me know your thoughts. I'm guessing jmecklenborg is against it.

 

If I were you, I'd be most concerned about which location provided the greatest safety for my scooter.  Doesn't Ohio have a concealed-carry law?  I'm sure there are plenty of websites that will tell you exactly what the rules are for concealed-carry in most states.  Teach yourself a new skill.  Sure it's an extreme solution, but it's available and possibly effective, at least on a personal basis.

^ Good point. The Elder St location has a locked breezeway running between it and the neighboring building. Dude is talking about installing iron grates in the mosaonry as anchor points to lock to.

 

Orchard st, I would just lock it to a fence, put it on the street, or lock it in the alley. So, more out in the open on Orchard.

HEY A POSITIVE ARTICLE FROM THE ENQUIRER!!!

 

Time to bring back Main Street

Enquirer Editorial

 

If you read the papers this past week, you might determine that Cincinnati is a bit schizophrenic when it comes to the success of live entertainment downtown.

 

In one story, business reporter Jon Newberry chronicled the woes the of Main Street in Over-the-Rhine, a once promising stretch with live music and bars that has been declining in its popularity in recent years.

 

ps:  I added the exclamation points at the end....poetic license.

 

>Crime isn't nearly as bad in Cincinnati as it is in comparable cities, no matter what The Enquirer says;

 

Statistically, that is correct, and most crime is domestic violence or drug-related.  I believe it has been about ten years since someone was randomly killed in OTR, that bass player back in 1996 or 97.  Even his royal highness Buddy Gray was killed by someone he knew.  But we can't ignore that OTR continues to be a zone of lawlessness and vice where people minding their own business are harassed regularly and that you simply can't park your vehicle there regularly and not expect break-ins.  Meanwhile, sparkling custom Impalas and Bonneville's and Cadillacs magically go untouched.         

 

>I am in OTR on a daily basis & have had fewer than 10 bad experiences there in about 25 years.  Are you giving your dealer/pimp a hard time ?

 

And I forgot to mention that in 2004 my uncle had all the teeth on the left side of his mouth knocked out by a dealer on Reading Rd. near the United Way building.  Not in OTR, but nearby.  He was driving down the hill and hit a pit bull that darted out into the street.  He stopped to apologize to the owner and got punched.  The police didn't do anything and the dental work cost something like $12,000.       

 

 

 

New Year's Eve, 2002/2003, Gregory Beauchamp was gunned down in OTR by a car of folks shouting anti-gay epithets...and there have been a few innocent bystanders killed in recent years.  But your point cetainly stands - most all of the victims are killed by people they know.

I've got a couple things on this......hasnt Nick Spencer been commenting on this specific forum about how Newport was doing well, and how there were even other areas in Cincinnati (Clifton etc) that would suit his club well.  I dont remember hearing him comment about Covington, it seems like a bad move to boot.  People dont simply flock to Nky for entertainment...just NOTL.  Covington has very little to offer in this sense and I wouldn't be surprised if Alchemize were to struggle in Covington the same way it has in OTR.

 

My other item, is that once again Nky is quite arrogant about the fact that they are simply trying to steal business, jobs, and residents away from Cincinnati rather than creating their own unique product and starting up new businesses/jobs and attracting new residents from outside the area.  This kind of behavior is detrimental to the region as a whole and needs to stop!!!!  Do you hear me: WC, Nky, Blue Ash??  Lets work together to better the region instead of participating in these cock fights and contributing to the cycle of each place losing out!

 

Club needs conditional use

City tells bar owner it prefers artists

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

 

Over-the-Rhine nightclub Alchemize will go forward with plans to move across the Ohio River, its owner said Monday.

 

That came as bad news for Covington Mayor Butch Callery, who had hoped another Cincinnati firm -- architects and planners Kinzelman Kline Gossman -- would move into that same space, at 25 W. Seventh St.

 

That's what they get for leaving Cincy!!!  Ever heard of a thing called....KHARMA...

That's what they get for leaving Cincy!!!   Ever heard of a thing called....KHARMA...

 

Is Nick investing in high end audio gear?

 

 

 

...sorry, couldn't resist...

 

 

Yeah, I take some offense to that.

 

First off, you weren't the one who suffered through two years of high crime, and the major negative impact it had on business. I've invested as much as anyone in making OTR a great place again, but I can only sustain so much financially. A business needs customers and money to run, and despite having a strong brand, our location was a huge deterrent. We lost regulars and big tabs to car break-ins and muggings nearly every week.

 

So to smugly act like we deserve scorn for leaving OTR, well, I find that really classy.

 

Finally, if folks are wondering why we didn't stay in the city, I'd say two things: we couldn't find a spot that made sense, and the cost of doing business in Ohio as a bar is much higher. Compound this with Covington's overall helpfulness (reflected everywhere except in the paper), and the decision was practically made for us. We would've loved to be in the Ludlow Garage-- we tried, don't blame me, blame the property owner for making a mess of the building. We looked at the Artists Warehouse space in Northside, but with no HVAC or bathrooms, it just wasn't realistic. We even looked at Lava downtown, but the building is just too damn expensive.

 

So its not like I didn't try. But in Cincy, no one was working with me, and we're losing money, so what are you going to do?

 

But yeah, anything bad that happens here is definitely karma. God knows how little I've done to try and help the city of Cincinnati. Maybe you should rethink where you so cavalierly toss the blame around.

And Rando, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong here. I called Covington and expressed some interest in moving over there. they followed up, helping me locate sites and navigating the process. If they hadn't, I'd probably just be closed instead of moving. I wouldn't have stayed in OTR, and I couldn't find a spot in the city.

 

Businesses are leaving Cincinnati because its a terrible place to do business in-- the officials are lazy, difficult, and charge way too much. Covington can't help it Cincy is so inept at this stuff. What are they supposed to do? Block any Cincy business from crossing the river? We do that to survive, not out of spite.

Nick did you check into any of those buildings on West Fifth street? I don't know if they're set up properly to be turned into a bar with live music but we were all talking about how that would be great if that area was turned into an entertainment district.

Nick, was operating alchemize on Walnut unprofitable, or just too big of a pain?

^^I also know of some places that are cheap to do business and have readily available land/property.  Their government also tends not to get in the way....you can check with other businesses in the area if you dont believe me...........West Chester, Monroe, Lebanon, Clermont County, etc.....why dont you look there if you are looking for some cheap business opportunities? :wtf:

Firstly, let me wish Nick and Alchemize nothing but the best.Hopefully you'll prosper and see nothing but good returns in your new location.If we are truly to think regionally, then we have to wish Covington,Newport,all of NKY,Westchester,Mason,Blue Ash and every other city/suburb well.Hopefully their sucess (or the city's) doesn't come at the expense of the other.Cincinnati and her defenders (the stalwarts on this board) cannot continue to bury their heads in the sand and pretend there are no problems.This city could be so much more,so very much more than it is. We all know this.Will we continue the blame game,pointing our fingers at the businesses and residents leaving the city.It seems customary on these boards to do just that.BAH!! Who needs em',you'll get what you deserve,  WTF. Lets stop with the petty schoolyard  bs.    It seems apparent to me that Nick did almost everything he could do to make it a go in otr and the city did absolutely nothing in regards to his continued pleas... until it was TOO LATE!! Is that to be the city's epithet? I don't think so,I pray not,but if things don't change  it may in fact be too little too late.Hopefully this tale is far from told tho,and it turns out that it is much like this very thread."THE DEATH OF MAIN STREET?FOUNTAIN SQUARE, ETC."  a little bit exaggeration, and a whole hellofa lot premature.                                                                                             

Best of luck to you, Nick...your bar isn't my kind of scene, but it's obviously a great addition to the region.  Wish it could stay in OTR, of course, as you've said over and over.  But I would suggest that folks who bad-mouth this decision realize that they're trying to spend someone else's money...I've had my disagreements with Nick before, but never because I presumed I could invest his money and his time better than he could.  If I felt that strongly about it, the logical conclusion would be to open my own bar at 12th and Walnut, not bad-mouth someone else for not doing it.

 

(But I did think the misspelling of "karma" was pretty funny...unless that's some archaic or foreign spelling I'm unaware of?)