One would think they would do more to tie it in visually with the original part since it is just an extension basically of the same hotel. It is just an extension of the existing hotel and will be connected under High, right? I don't really care for this (very initial I realize) rendering.  I would think the Hilton would want some continuity to visually say "we own this big ass space on both sides of the street" and all.

 

 

*Now what we need after this is an apartment/condo/mixed tower just as tall on that sliver of Goodale between the High cap and the garage. That new garage planned for next to the Drury Inn should clear up some parking spaces for it, huh?  :)

One would think they would do more to tie it in visually with the original part since it is just an extension basically of the same hotel. It is just an extension of the existing hotel and will be connected under High, right? I don't really care for this (very initial I realize) rendering.  I would think the Hilton would want some continuity to visually say "we own this big ass space on both sides of the street" and all.

 

 

*Now what we need after this is an apartment/condo/mixed tower just as tall on that sliver of Goodale between the High cap and the garage. That new garage planned for next to the Drury Inn should clear up some parking spaces for it, huh?  :)

 

Don't count out the 400 foot Market Tower literally about a football field away.  But I agree, the design needs tweaked, but I'm sure this is a super early preliminary drawing of what will come.

 

People always complain about the design of the GCCC without knowing the context or reason it looks like it does.  This is literally where Union Station and all the rail lines came into our city, and although funky and we tore down our history, at least we are paying homage to what it represents.  With more vertical structures coming around this convoluted roofline of the convention center, I wonder if it would be cool to add some lines of "neon" or some modern lighting along the curvy lines representing the old rail roads to make the roof "pop" from above.  With all the roof top restaurants and bars going in around this, it would be sort of a neat feature.  Just a funky thought haha

One would think they would do more to tie it in visually with the original part since it is just an extension basically of the same hotel. It is just an extension of the existing hotel and will be connected under High, right? I don't really care for this (very initial I realize) rendering.  I would think the Hilton would want some continuity to visually say "we own this big ass space on both sides of the street" and all.

 

 

*Now what we need after this is an apartment/condo/mixed tower just as tall on that sliver of Goodale between the High cap and the garage. That new garage planned for next to the Drury Inn should clear up some parking spaces for it, huh?  :)

 

Don't count out the 400 foot Market Tower literally about a football field away.  But I agree, the design needs tweaked, but I'm sure this is a super early preliminary drawing of what will come.

 

People always complain about the design of the GCCC without knowing the context or reason it looks like it does.  This is literally where Union Station and all the rail lines came into our city, and although funky and we tore down our history, at least we are paying homage to what it represents.  With more vertical structures coming around this convoluted roofline of the convention center, I wonder if it would be cool to add some lines of "neon" or some modern lighting along the curvy lines representing the old rail roads to make the roof "pop" from above.  With all the roof top restaurants and bars going in around this, it would be sort of a neat feature.  Just a funky thought haha

 

Having been born and raised here and being able to remember before they built the original Ohio Center (and having both parents still around at 89 and 84 years old) I know all about what was there lol. I don't mind the funky weird design that represents the tracks, I don't like how it does not engage the street-they did not incorporate any streetside retail or anything-it is an inward-focused design that for all intents and purposes might as well just be a blank concrete wall. I wish there was a way they could open it up a few places or stick some little retail stuff in it that faces outward to the street as well as inward.

 

I never saw the interior of the Union Station itself (the actual station set way back from High, not just the arcade fronting High) but my mother says it was pretty nice inside despite not looking like much from any exterior photos I have seen of it.

 

And yes the Market Tower will be great for this area. That, this, and yes a tower on the Goodale plot! Make it happen Cbus tall building Gods!!!

 

We also need the stuff on Park Street (the hotel where they are saving the facades) and they need to do something with those lots further back as well as something like a mini-park on that bit that overhangs the freeway. If it can support vehicles it can also support trees in large planters,etc.

I agree that the "engaging" aspect of the street on the east side of High is lacking however I will play devils advocate and ponder this..........Although there is not street retail on this one side, the other side is filling in and becoming quite the "go to" for convention goers.  This area is not necessarily aimed at the locals here, but the visitors here for meetings, so although it seems lopsided to have one side of High Street bustling and the other side a big convention "wall/façade" I feel there is reason behind this that needs to be respected.  Although from the street/store front perspective it seems lacking, most of this space encompasses meeting rooms, which our convention center boasts quite a bit of and is ideal for "break out sessions" when events are planning to come here. Exhibit halls are important, but having a lot of meeting rooms is also a huge component and we've expanded and provided this to potential events choosing our center above others.  From a street perspective this seems dull, but inside those walls, this is a huge piece of getting conventions and meetings to come here, which ultimately means more visitors, and more money being spent when they leave the convention center and wander around this awesome area.  Again, not really arguing, just trying to provide a different perspective to respect why this stretch of High Street is the way it is.  You don't have to go far to have a double sided store front experience either haha :)

^^ They would not have to do a lot. There are few underutilized small green spaces where they could install art or sculpture, stick a food truck, etc. They could also cut out some actual windows if/where possible and could actually utilize some art on certain spaces along the convention center wall as well. Just some small things that help break up the monotony and make that side of the street a little more "friendly". Hell stick a small water feature in one of the crannies that is now just landscaping.

 

  They could put more than just landscaping or pavement in them. Small quirky things are what give a place a sense of charm IMO and it would not hurt if they put a few in. Downtown in general could use more of this. Using little left over odd spaces this way helps to give a place a sense of "place"(or keep a sense of place) just like saving facades, etc.

 

**The addition of the hotel will indeed fill the southermost one of these little "crannies" or nooks or setbacks.

^I think the new streetscape and redesigned "Arnold" plaza look nice along High St.

According to Biz1st, "Plans shown to Columbus and Franklin County officials show a tower of at least 23 stories built on the southern end of the convention center next to High Street with 17 floors with guest rooms, a ballroom, a restaurant and bar and additional meeting rooms"

 

And they include this rendering,

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/03/01/downtown-hilton-seeking-to-expand-to-1-000-rooms.html

 

I still say kick in another 150ish rooms and flip the 23 to a 32 floor count and building something in the 370-400 foot range.  And please do something sorta modern/glass/angles and push the mold a bit haha........

 

If they built the new garage on the other side tall enough they could almost incorporate a skywalk connecting to the hotel over the little pass through of the convention center.  Hilton 1.0 would have access to vine street garage and Hilton 2.0 would have direct access to the planned garage.....

I’ve been a convention center hater from day one. It just seems so stupid to go through all that time, effort and expense with the cap only to have pedestrians arrive at a dead zone along the CC. Bad, thoughtless design.

I’ve been a convention center hater from day one. It just seems so stupid to go through all that time, effort and expense with the cap only to have pedestrians arrive at a dead zone along the CC. Bad, thoughtless design.

 

 

It was the late ‘80s.  If you read articles from the time, developers were breathless about suburban sprawl and doom and gloom about Downtown.  Building an ugly suburban mall on High was their big idea for helping the urban core.  Different times for sure.

I’ve been a convention center hater from day one. It just seems so stupid to go through all that time, effort and expense with the cap only to have pedestrians arrive at a dead zone along the CC. Bad, thoughtless design.

 

 

It was the late ‘80s.  If you read articles from the time, developers were breathless about suburban sprawl and doom and gloom about Downtown.  Building an ugly suburban mall on High was their big idea for helping the urban core.  Different times for sure.

 

Right. I think since the center was the result of a design competition they should just hold another competition to better integrate it with the street.

^I think the new streetscape and redesigned "Arnold" plaza look nice along High St.

 

That plaza is capped on two sides by large blank windowless walls and big blank windowless walls on either side of it on High as well. It is uninspiring and lacks any real creativity IMO even if it is an improvement. They could do much better than just "nice" or better than before, or worst of all, "it's ok-at least for Columbus.

 

That mass of the convention center wall is a blank canvas waiting for something. Windows(even fake ones), art, murals, anything depicting the history of the city or what was once there (going along with the design reflecting the tracks), living green walls or planters embedded in some of those blocks, etc. Anything to break up the spaces more and humanize it a bit. If they did the artwork/etc right, that alone could possibly (a stretch here I will admit) make it a showpiece and something to be admired even.

 

An endless parade of pastel trapezoids just does not cut it for me. It could be better than that-even if the streetscape along it has improved a bit.

I’ve been a convention center hater from day one. It just seems so stupid to go through all that time, effort and expense with the cap only to have pedestrians arrive at a dead zone along the CC. Bad, thoughtless design.

 

 

It was the late ‘80s.  If you read articles from the time, developers were breathless about suburban sprawl and doom and gloom about Downtown.  Building an ugly suburban mall on High was their big idea for helping the urban core.  Different times for sure.

It absolutely looks like the eighties also. And not in a good way-it looks so dated that if you put out some potted palm trees along it I might expect to see Tubbs and Crockett saunter on by.

^ Haha! I followed a Delorean on my way to work today. Unlike the CC it was definitely one cool design from the 80’s.

I will say the Convention Center spent the early half of its existence cannibalizing all activity and life from the area. I also however see the recent streetscape improvements, uplighting (personally I think it's geometry is great at night now), plazas, and hardscaping has done a TON to make it feel more human and less oppressive to walk along. I actually see people walking it now and using the space. As much as I'd like it, my guess is anything cutting into the center meeting spaces is a non starter. The GCCC has stated its about maximizing marketable sq footage, thats why they killed off the early hotel proposals.

 

In general, convention centers are terrible in the urban fabric... even new ones like Nashville suck the life out of the area. Based on the ones I have visited, Columbus' is actually handled quite well. 

New 20+ Story Convention Center Hotel Proposed Downtown

 

It’s no secret that the leadership at the Greater Columbus Convention Center have been wanting more hotel rooms for the past decade. An official recommendation for a 1,000-room hotel was proposed in 2015, just three years after the completion of the 532-room Hilton across High Street.

 

“What we hear from our clients and from national meeting planners is that we need another 1,000 rooms either adjacent or connected to the Convention Center,” stated Megumi Robinson, Associate Director of Public Relations at Experience Columbus, during a 2015 interview with Columbus Underground.

 

More below:

https://www.columbusunderground.com/new-20-story-convention-center-hotel-proposed-downtown-we1

 

^I think the new streetscape and redesigned "Arnold" plaza look nice along High St.

 

That plaza is capped on two sides by large blank windowless walls and big blank windowless walls on either side of it on High as well. It is uninspiring and lacks any real creativity IMO even if it is an improvement. They could do much better than just "nice" or better than before, or worst of all, "it's ok-at least for Columbus.

 

That mass of the convention center wall is a blank canvas waiting for something. Windows(even fake ones), art, murals, anything depicting the history of the city or what was once there (going along with the design reflecting the tracks), living green walls or planters embedded in some of those blocks, etc. Anything to break up the spaces more and humanize it a bit. If they did the artwork/etc right, that alone could possibly (a stretch here I will admit) make it a showpiece and something to be admired even.

 

An endless parade of pastel trapezoids just does not cut it for me. It could be better than that-even if the streetscape along it has improved a bit.

 

I've always liked the building and I do think the streetscape upgrades help enliven the street. My understanding is that punching windows into the walls would interfere with some of the functionality of the meeting rooms and back of house operations. I do agree that the overall design is inward focused and attention to the street would have helped. FWIW, this portion of the convention center came online in the early 1990's, not the 1980's.

https://i1.wp.com/www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/hotel-cutaway.jpg?w=1300&ssl=1

 

According to this picture, it looks like they are planning for the building to be ~300 feet tall. So within a couple years we could have a new 300 foot tower right across the street from a new 400 foot tower. I'll take it. Someone needs to do some mock-ups of what the skyline could look like in 5-6 years with all of these news developments.

I also have always been a fan of the Convention Center's design. Yes, the street would be better and more active with retail spaces, but overall it's handled very well compared to most other cities. The recent streetscape work, new north entrance/atrium, and Arnold statue are huge improvements too

 

The most important thing IMO is that the other side of the street is fully activated (this is where the Greek Orthodox cathedral really hurts, and the current Hilton also to an extent). High St through campus is actually a similar situation and no one ever calls it "dead," with academic buildings, garages, and plaza/green space on the west side, and retail/mixed-use opposite on the east

^I think the new streetscape and redesigned "Arnold" plaza look nice along High St.

 

That plaza is capped on two sides by large blank windowless walls and big blank windowless walls on either side of it on High as well. It is uninspiring and lacks any real creativity IMO even if it is an improvement. They could do much better than just "nice" or better than before, or worst of all, "it's ok-at least for Columbus.

 

That mass of the convention center wall is a blank canvas waiting for something. Windows(even fake ones), art, murals, anything depicting the history of the city or what was once there (going along with the design reflecting the tracks), living green walls or planters embedded in some of those blocks, etc. Anything to break up the spaces more and humanize it a bit. If they did the artwork/etc right, that alone could possibly (a stretch here I will admit) make it a showpiece and something to be admired even.

 

An endless parade of pastel trapezoids just does not cut it for me. It could be better than that-even if the streetscape along it has improved a bit.

 

I've always liked the building and I do think the streetscape upgrades help enliven the street. My understanding is that punching windows into the walls would interfere with some of the functionality of the meeting rooms and back of house operations. I do agree that the overall design is inward focused and attention to the street would have helped. FWIW, this portion of the convention center came online in the early 1990's, not the 1980's.

 

Well it screams 1980's with those pastel colors. And the design competition in which this architect won, was in...1989. As in nineteen EIGHTY nine lol.  ;) 

 

But I understand it is a building of the times, and ok they may not be able to punch out real windows. And yes they have progressed-especially with the streetscaping. But the building is designed to have setbacks and protrusions (as in how some of those blocks protrude a bit from the facade) and they could put "fake" windows or "something" in those spaces, and everything else like artwork attached to the buildings, living walls, etc. etc. is doable.  The building could say "Columbus' in a good way and not in such a banal and dated way, while still respecting the building's nod to what was there before.

 

Really, can you imagine the Amazon people seeing this stuck in the eighties/designed in the eighties building and snickering? Wondering if they should have brought their unconstructed linen jackets and had grown mullets? lol. (as if we really have a chance and would look at this while strolling High lol). The city can do better. than. this. I stand by it.

 

The city can do better, especially with landmark buildings (and even though I know convention centers and parking garages are the cancers of urban architecture) and unfortunately it is a long and prominent and banal outdated looking building on our main street-and one that the city can actually do something about unlike some of the corporate concrete megalithic things nearby.

 

*and I don't care about the horrors of other cities and their cancers I care about this city and this long behemoth on our main street in our downtown.

Between this, Market Tower, and Millenium tower, it kind of takes away the Scioto Peninsula developers argument that the Columbus market doesn't need 20+ story buildings. Man, I hope they revisit that plan, it would be a shame to miss out on an opportunity to build tall on that side of the river. Maybe if we get HQ2 they'll triple the size of all the buildings over there.

Between this, Market Tower, and Millenium tower, it kind of takes away the Scioto Peninsula developers argument that the Columbus market doesn't need 20+ story buildings. Man, I hope they revisit that plan, it would be a shame to miss out on an opportunity to build tall on that side of the river. Maybe if we get HQ2 they'll triple the size of all the buildings over there.

 

I think they didn't make an argument about there not being a need for it, but that there was no market demand to justify to size.  A similar excuse was made for 80 on the Commons reduction from the original 17-story proposal to its now built 12 stories.  I personally didn't buy either developer's excuse and thought the real story was likely that they're either 1. Not fiscally able to build them, or 2. Unable to think on the larger scale... or both.  But demand is there.  We're seeing it with a now-steady batch of larger proposals.  If anything, Columbus continues to vastly under build. 

^not what is being discussed by lenders across the country. Right now Columbus is in hyper supply and there is starting to be some pull back in the lending community toward the market. Not saying it is a bad market, and it is still a very strong market on the whole, but there is some trepidation from some of the larger institutional lenders right now as there is a perception that there is a bit of overbuilding in the Columbus market.

 

I was at a conference the other day with some regional VP's from Fannie and Freddie who were both saying this.

 

So, ultimately, the developer can't justify building because 1) doing so would change the risk profile of the project around making it unpalatable, and 2) the secondary market of buyers for the loans and even apartment operators are reluctant to pay top dollar for the paper anymore.

^not what is being discussed by lenders across the country. Right now Columbus is in hyper supply and there is starting to be some pull back in the lending community toward the market. Not saying it is a bad market, and it is still a very strong market on the whole, but there is some trepidation from some of the larger institutional lenders right now as there is a perception that there is a bit of overbuilding in the Columbus market.

 

I was at a conference the other day with some regional VP's from Fannie and Freddie who were both saying this.

 

So, ultimately, the developer can't justify building because 1) doing so would change the risk profile of the project around making it unpalatable, and 2) the secondary market of buyers for the loans and even apartment operators are reluctant to pay top dollar for the paper anymore.

 

I just don't buy that, sorry.  Lenders are by nature overly cautious, and lending has been a cited problem getting projects built for years now around Columbus.  And yet Columbus population growth is at record levels and occupancy rates are near record highs.  New projects often fill up before buildings open. There is no expectation that demand is going to slow down anytime soon, especially in the urban core.  There was a report not that long ago that Columbus will need tens of thousands of new units by 2030, and it's not keeping pace.   

Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland are all seeing a boom in their urban cores. the biggest thing about Columbus is that they have the most units in the pipeline than the other cities. While that is good and exciting, there are more units in development in the region than Columbus population growth supports at this time and it will take time for the market to absorb it.

 

Yes, there may be a push for more downtown units, but units being developed in Delaware county, etc help determine what the market will sustain from a lender point of view.

 

The problem is that building a 20 story tower downtown is a lot more expensive than a 3 story building in Powell or Reynoldsburg or Marysville. While rents will be much higher to justify the development, for such a development to take place, the developer needs to put down a lot more money up front in order to get the deal off the ground. When you are talking about building a $100 million tower, it is rare to find a developer with that much liquid cash to take that risk. The lenders who would lend on such a property see Columbus as overbuilt and needing to take a pause.

 

I know you are excited about Columbus growth but the financing fundamentals that preclude or slow down this type of development has nothing to do with the growth going on, it is mostly the financing community taking a pause to catch its breath before proceeding further.

 

Dallas Ft. Worth and Denver are faster growing markets than Columbus but are going through some hyper-supply issues and development lending is slowing in those cities. It will pick up again soon if things stay strong, but it is all about letting the market absorb what is built before moving forward again.

^not what is being discussed by lenders across the country. Right now Columbus is in hyper supply and there is starting to be some pull back in the lending community toward the market. Not saying it is a bad market, and it is still a very strong market on the whole, but there is some trepidation from some of the larger institutional lenders right now as there is a perception that there is a bit of overbuilding in the Columbus market.

 

I was at a conference the other day with some regional VP's from Fannie and Freddie who were both saying this.

 

So, ultimately, the developer can't justify building because 1) doing so would change the risk profile of the project around making it unpalatable, and 2) the secondary market of buyers for the loans and even apartment operators are reluctant to pay top dollar for the paper anymore.

 

I just don't buy that, sorry.  Lenders are by nature overly cautious, and lending has been a cited problem getting projects built for years now around Columbus.  And yet Columbus population growth is at record levels and occupancy rates are near record highs.  New projects often fill up before buildings open. There is no expectation that demand is going to slow down anytime soon, especially in the urban core.  There was a report not that long ago that Columbus will need tens of thousands of new units by 2030, and it's not keeping pace.   

 

Ultimately, it may does not matter what you think, it is what the people at Fannie and Freddie and many of the Life Insurance companies that lend for these large projects think. They often are not on the ground in Columbus nor do they really care about it outside of a numbers story, and in 2018  they are saying Columbus is slightly overbuilt. In 2020 the market may say something different. In 2017 Columbus was not overbuilt.

Insight 2050 has revised their population estimates for 2050 to 1 million new residents in the metro. The projection from 2010 to 2050 was 500,000 but we have already seen an increase of 150,000 since 2010. Check out the graph here: http://getinsight2050.org/

Shouldn't this info open up lenders' purses?

It is obviously something they consider I would guess, but from what they have indicated, the biggest focus and cause for pause right now is that there are approximately 8000 units that are in development that are in the 3 year pipeline to be delivered and they want to see the market handle them before committing to more in a rising interest rate environment. The population growth is only one component of the whole thing.

Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland are all seeing a boom in their urban cores. the biggest thing about Columbus is that they have the most units in the pipeline than the other cities. While that is good and exciting, there are more units in development in the region than Columbus population growth supports at this time and it will take time for the market to absorb it.

 

Yes, there may be a push for more downtown units, but units being developed in Delaware county, etc help determine what the market will sustain from a lender point of view.

 

The problem is that building a 20 story tower downtown is a lot more expensive than a 3 story building in Powell or Reynoldsburg or Marysville. While rents will be much higher to justify the development, for such a development to take place, the developer needs to put down a lot more money up front in order to get the deal off the ground. When you are talking about building a $100 million tower, it is rare to find a developer with that much liquid cash to take that risk. The lenders who would lend on such a property see Columbus as overbuilt and needing to take a pause.

 

I know you are excited about Columbus growth but the financing fundamentals that preclude or slow down this type of development has nothing to do with the growth going on, it is mostly the financing community taking a pause to catch its breath before proceeding further.

 

Dallas Ft. Worth and Denver are faster growing markets than Columbus but are going through some hyper-supply issues and development lending is slowing in those cities. It will pick up again soon if things stay strong, but it is all about letting the market absorb what is built before moving forward again.

 

Columbus' average annual growth so far this decade is 12,176.  That's 30% higher than even during the peak of the annexation years of the 1950s.  You mention 8000 units in the pipeline in the next 3 years.  A study on the region stated that at least 33,000 new units would be needed by 2030, or about 2,540 per year every year.  The 8000 is a slightly higher rate than that, but not by much.  Keep in mind that that study had to be updated due to initially underestimating regional population growth, and the 12,176 is based on estimates.  Columbus has grown faster than the estimates when the decennial census counts were done in at least the past few decades, so in all likelihood, the estimated unit need is still too low.  Furthermore, Columbus has seen MUCH higher residential construction in other years when the population was growing more slowly.  For example, single-family home construction starts are still well under what they were prior to the recession, and even apartment construction is under the rate of the apartment boom that occurred in the area in the late 1990s.  This has led to record low inventory for multiple years in a row, along with rising housing and rent prices which also continue to hit new record highs.  However, the point is even more drastic if those 8000 units are spread across the metro rather than just Columbus or Franklin County alone.  How many of those units are actually there? 

 

It seems strange for lenders to focus on areas like Delaware County in determining the market of Columbus, though.  Franklin County receives the bulk of all new population into the metro area.  It grew 4.5x faster than Delaware County in total.  It grew more than every county in the metro combined.  I would imagine that the markets are very different county to county. 

 

As I said, you just seem to be saying that they're being cautious.  There is no indication, at least in Franklin County, that new construction is having any trouble being absorbed.  The core county is where the 23,300 people moving to the metro every year largely want to be.  If lenders are taking a breather, it seems unrelated to actual market conditions. 

Insight 2050 has revised their population estimates for 2050 to 1 million new residents in the metro. The projection from 2010 to 2050 was 500,000 but we have already seen an increase of 150,000 since 2010. Check out the graph here: http://getinsight2050.org/

Shouldn't this info open up lenders' purses?

 

Yes, that's the report I was thinking of.  The projection had to be doubled already.  The vast majority of those people moving to the metro are coming to Franklin County, and a little more than half of all the metro's growth is into Columbus proper.  Record high prices, record low inventory in the city suggests that there is no overbuilding going on there, at least not yet.

Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland are all seeing a boom in their urban cores. the biggest thing about Columbus is that they have the most units in the pipeline than the other cities. While that is good and exciting, there are more units in development in the region than Columbus population growth supports at this time and it will take time for the market to absorb it.

 

Yes, there may be a push for more downtown units, but units being developed in Delaware county, etc help determine what the market will sustain from a lender point of view.

 

The problem is that building a 20 story tower downtown is a lot more expensive than a 3 story building in Powell or Reynoldsburg or Marysville. While rents will be much higher to justify the development, for such a development to take place, the developer needs to put down a lot more money up front in order to get the deal off the ground. When you are talking about building a $100 million tower, it is rare to find a developer with that much liquid cash to take that risk. The lenders who would lend on such a property see Columbus as overbuilt and needing to take a pause.

 

I know you are excited about Columbus growth but the financing fundamentals that preclude or slow down this type of development has nothing to do with the growth going on, it is mostly the financing community taking a pause to catch its breath before proceeding further.

 

Dallas Ft. Worth and Denver are faster growing markets than Columbus but are going through some hyper-supply issues and development lending is slowing in those cities. It will pick up again soon if things stay strong, but it is all about letting the market absorb what is built before moving forward again.

 

Columbus' average annual growth so far this decade is 12,176.  That's 30% higher than even during the peak of the annexation years of the 1950s.  You mention 8000 units in the pipeline in the next 3 years.  A study on the region stated that at least 33,000 new units would be needed by 2030, or about 2,540 per year every year.  The 8000 is a slightly higher rate than that, but not by much.  Keep in mind that that study had to be updated due to initially underestimating regional population growth, and the 12,176 is based on estimates.  Columbus has grown faster than the estimates when the decennial census counts were done in at least the past few decades, so in all likelihood, the estimated unit need is still too low.  Furthermore, Columbus has seen MUCH higher residential construction in other years when the population was growing more slowly.  For example, single-family home construction starts are still well under what they were prior to the recession, and even apartment construction is under the rate of the apartment boom that occurred in the area in the late 1990s.  This has led to record low inventory for multiple years in a row, along with rising housing and rent prices which also continue to hit new record highs.  However, the point is even more drastic if those 8000 units are spread across the metro rather than just Columbus or Franklin County alone.  How many of those units are actually there? 

 

It seems strange for lenders to focus on areas like Delaware County in determining the market of Columbus, though.  Franklin County receives the bulk of all new population into the metro area.  It grew 4.5x faster than Delaware County in total.  It grew more than every county in the metro combined.  I would imagine that the markets are very different county to county. 

 

As I said, you just seem to be saying that they're being cautious.  There is no indication, at least in Franklin County, that new construction is having any trouble being absorbed.  The core county is where the 23,300 people moving to the metro every year largely want to be.  If lenders are taking a breather, it seems unrelated to actual market conditions. 

 

Population growth is only one factor at play here. Columbus had strong growth in 2008 and 2009 but if you remember, there was not much construction during that time. In the current environment, the development market (per the lenders view) is a bit overheated, especially given the rising interest rates and therefore, they are being much more cautious on development deals because the pipeline is full in their opinion and they want to hit the pause button. The same thing is going on in Indy too. Conversely, Cincinnati which is not growing as fast, also did not see the same hyper-supply of development going on so there is more room to lend in that market. Same is true for Cleveland and Detroit. Population growth is only part of the equation and Columbus continued population growth should in no way be considered a bad thing, but essentially, certain market conditions that a lender would like when viewing things at 30,000 feet are not in equilibrium now which is why there is a bit of financing sluggishness.

I'd say another thing affecting height is not enough demand for Class A commercial space Downtown. Dublin, Worthington, Westerville, Polaris and Easton are still where the Boomer decision makers are putting the office jobs. I'd imagine you'd see more height if there was more in the way of office components to these buildings.

I'd say another thing affecting height is not enough demand for Class A commercial space Downtown. Dublin, Worthington, Westerville, Polaris and Easton are still where the Boomer decision makers are putting the office jobs. I'd imagine you'd see more height if there was more in the way of office components to these buildings.

 

I think that's actually more to do with the fact that there is not as much new Class A Downtown.  Consider that there has been almost no office construction Downtown since the 1990s outside of smaller spaces in mixed-use projects, and I think a lot of companies are looking for newer, or at least recently-remodeled space.  Some of the bigger office towers are now getting renovations, and that should open the market up a bit. But yeah, the Class A that's been built recently, like in 250 High, was snatched up quickly. 

Back on topic, folks. If you want to discuss the Columbus market, please find or create another thread.

Sounds like the new hotel will be officially announced tomorrow. This dispatch article also had an updated rendering,

 

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180311/city-county-weighing-options-for-paying-for-expanded-hilton

 

That gap between the Convention Center and the Hyatt was were the Columbus 3C rail station was supposed to be, wasn't it? Will this project impact the potential of a future station being built?

From what I remember, the Convention Center itself was to be the train station.

That gap between the Convention Center and the Hyatt was were the Columbus 3C rail station was supposed to be, wasn't it? Will this project impact the potential of a future station being built?

 

I remember asking this same question some years ago to noozer[/member] (our local rail expert).  He didn't feel that the development in this area would prevent a future 3C rail station from being built.

That gap between the Convention Center and the Hyatt was were the Columbus 3C rail station was supposed to be, wasn't it? Will this project impact the potential of a future station being built?

 

I remember asking this same question some years ago to noozer[/member] (our local rail expert).  He didn't feel that the development in this area would prevent a future 3C rail station from being built.

 

Yeah, there's nothing preventing a rail station from being built on top of the tracks themselves.  Would take some engineering, but entirely doable.  That said, I just don't see it happening unless that Chicago-Columbus line works out.

View from the other side -

 

^ I would love to see a rendering with Market Tower thrown in there as well. This is really going to expand our skyline when you are looking from the East or West.

City, county officials say Hilton 2.0 would help Columbus land more national conventions, events

 

City and county officials say a planned 470-room, 22-story expansion of the Hilton Columbus Downtown could be a game-changer as Columbus vies for more national convention and events.

 

Leaders on Monday pulled the curtain back on the plans to expand the hotel with a 22-story tower along High Street, a project that is estimated to cost $165 million to $190 million.

 

If approved, work could be completed on the so-called Hilton 2.0 by 2021.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/03/12/city-county-officials-say-hilton-2-0-would-help.html

View from the other side -

 

 

Now what that picture needs now is a nice matching condo/apartment/hotel/whatever on that sliver on Goodale next to the parking garage. When they were looking at sites for hotel additions didn't they have a map showing that something was already planned for the site so it was not in contention? I remember something like that but have heard nothing about that sliver. 

 

I also keep wanting them to add a few more floors to this...but maybe I am just being greedy lol.

I'd love to see that Greek Orthodox parking lot developed!

Mini-Super to Replace Little Eater Produce at North Market

 

This summer, the produce stand at the North Market is getting an overhaul. A new business operation called Mini-Super will take over the space, replacing Little Eater Produce and Provisions. Mini-Super will be opened and operated by Matthew Miner, a 20-year industry veteran with experience at Northwest Natural Foods and Whole Foods.

 

More below:

https://www.columbusunderground.com/mini-super-to-replace-little-eater-produce-at-north-market-we1

 

Crap, now I can't open a flea market booth called that

Agreement coming together to finance 23-story Hilton tower downtown

 

 

The agreement is coming together to fund the proposed 23-story tower to expand the Hilton Columbus Downtown.

 

After a year of negotiations, Columbus City Council, the Franklin County Board of Commissioners and the Franklin County Convention Facilities Authority have crafted a memorandum of understanding to structure the financing for the expansion, which is expected to cost $180 million to $200 million.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/05/23/agreement-coming-together-to-finance-23-story.html

Walking by the Convention Center today and noticed they have installed some living walls along the portions of the High St side of the building where it connects to the Hyatt.

 

A welcome addition, I really wish more places around downtown would consider doing this (looking at you Ohio Theatre facing the Commons).

 

^ The green walls at the convention center look good, I think they'll grow in nicely there and improve the whole feel of that drop off area. The entire renovation project was really well done actually

 

And agreed 100% about the backside of the Ohio Theater... I can't believe CDDC is content to leave that as-is to be honest

^CDDC does not own the Ohio Theater, CAPA does.

Yes but I imagine CAPA doesn't care how the back looks (and probably doesn't have the money to spare even if they did). It mostly affects the commons, so just guessing that CDDC would need to foot the bill for any improvements