I have been thinking about starting this topic discussion for a while now.  Every week I sit in multiple meetings with various organizations in and around OTR and Mt. Auburn, most times we simply brainstorm items including possible development, event and marketing ideas and security solutions.  Many great ideas come out of these brainstorming sessions, some are implemented, others are shelved.  With the number of minds who visit UrbanOhio.com everyday, I was interested in an open brain storming session here.  OTR right now is what it is, but what would you like it to be.  From Central to Mulberry and lets just say from 71 to 75, what ideas do you have. 

 

What does Main St. look like in the future, what about Vine?  I am looking for ideas about crime elimination, developments both residential and commercial, marketing-whatever idea you have to make OTR what it should be, not just what it is.  No rules, no parameters, just What Ifs.

Personally, I'd like to see every commercial street in OTR cater towards a different audience.  For example, Vine can be a "yuppie" corridor of Starbucks, J. Crew, and etc.  Main Street is fine.  Walnut can be a corridor of African-American businesses.  Race could be Hispanic businesses.  Elm could be a variety of businesses, leading towards Findlay Market.  Republic can be this Bohemian corridor.  So basically, a diverse, dense neighborhood.  I would love to see the interaction and such. 

 

How appropriate for the city that was the "safe haven" for slaves.

Im from Cleveland but my brother happens to live down in Cincinnati . Last time i was down there he took me through OTR . I think that area has so much potential and i would definatly like to see development in the neighboorhood , I really wish i could help out with getting that area cleaned up , It would do alot for Cincy

Yeah over-the-rhine is unique. It's hard to find a neighborhood that dense, with such great architecture.  I love the narrow streets and alleys. I don't really care about what kinds of businesses would occupy it as long as it's not drugs and prostitution. An eclectic mix of specialty stores, bars, family restaurants, etc. As long as it's not bulldozed down for metered parking lol.

 

 

Besides the commercial and residential housing stock, I'd want to see some form of mass transit going through downtown, OTR up to clifton. After restoring OTR, imagine having a light rail with a few stations in OTR, what that would do to property value :) . Not to mention convenience.

How about some specifics, for instance Main St.  We have a plan in place for increased retail vs. entertainment (although their would be a mix).  Our idea would be to bring in stores that are uniquely Cincinnati.  I have heard the same for Findlay.

 

As to the trasportation, I have heard trolley, rail or wheel.  And on that note we are even kicking around the idea of a joint trolley tour of homes and unique business for Mt. Auburn and OTR (I haven't asked OTR yet, but I am bringing this up Fri.)

I definitely think OTR should have independantly owned businesses. I wouldn't want to see it saturated with franchises like Coldstone Creamery, Starbucks, McDonalds, Etc. If OTR has stores that no one else has, I think that would be better for tourism.  Kinda like how it's lame when people go to tour NYC and eat at Times Square at places like Friday's and Applebees.  That's not what restaurants New Yorkers take pride in.  I think OTR should be a reflection of what we take pride in. Good Chili will have to be mandatory. I think it would be great no matter what as long as it's diversified. Have italian, greek, indian, american, chinese, japanese etc food to choose from. I think more live music venues would be good. Expand our music scene, catering to different styles of music.  Restaurants with live music seem to do well. That was one of the big incentives to go to the Dubliner.

I would like to see it become more connected with its German past.  Have some type of Germanesque signing and features on all the streets once you enter OTR.  Try to attract more breweries and the like (f you Hofbra for going to Newport) and try to recapture that feeling of being in Munich like it once was.  And I really think that Oktoberfest should be celebrated in OTR.  It is the German heart of the city, sorry downtown.

 

As for the Findlay Market area, I think that's where we should try to concentrate on an international experience.  An african quarters, middle east, etc...

David,

I couldn't agree more.  We can not have the same stores in OTR that Kenwood has, we will lose everytime.  But if we have destination stores, well then coming to OTR would be an event.  And the comment about chili...

Good Chili will have to be mandatory

correct me if I am forgetting something, but why in this world can't I get Cincinnati chili in OTR?  This should be the first business we go after in my opinion.

 

I think more live music venues would be good. Expand our music scene, catering to different styles of music.  Restaurants with live music seem to do well. That was one of the big incentives to go to the Dubliner.

I am the chairman of the events committee of Mt. Auburn, and we just had a meeting discussing 5 or 6 ideas for events to reach out to outside the community to draw new people in, and a music concert is one of the ideas that I recieved the biggest response from, especially from Stanley B.  I agree that we do need more of this, you point to New York, I point to New Orleans, any street you walk down you cant escape the sounds of local music, why should we not be the same.

 

Try to attract more breweries and the like (f you Hofbra for going to Newport) and try to recapture that feeling of being in Munich like it once was.

 

Well we have a brewery district and it is picking up steam, well except for the fact we don't have any beer sold there now.  What about an independent small brewer, we could probably give someone space to brew in one of the old buildings and have our own beer.  And with Findlay, do you mean seperate it into sections? almost like Jungle Jims does?

 

I honestly think OTR would succeed more if we leaned a lot more towards nightlife and restaurants, more-so than retail. When people go to retail stores, they want to go where there is a lot of other retail stores to choose from. That's why people go to Cincinnati Mills and Tri-County and why Newport is suffering. But notice Newport isn't suffering as far as night life and food. Geographically, Newport is a lot more similar to OTR than TriCounty, so I think we should utilize our knowledge of their mistakes. I think we need mass transit connecting UC area to OTR and downtown and take advantage of the UC students looking for fun and you could have some of us UrbanOhio people help promote these venues, restaurants etc even if it just means posting up flyers.

I think you are deffinetly on to something David, but in our estimation, the reason that Newport has failed was the demographic target of the stores.  But you may be right, we are continuing to study this mix on Main.  As to the connection, hopefully we can work something out even in the short term with Uptown, Findlay, DCI, and OTR Chamber.  We should cater to the UC students more, they are our target demographic, they should be marketed to.

 

Let me ask you, short term solution to connect uptown and downtown, what do you see?

I guess some sort of express shuttles/buses that don't have very many stops in between. How hard is it to get Metro to modify their routes and add new ones? UC shuttle buses are out of the question since it's a threat to new UC construction.

I believe there also needs to be an addressed connection with Mt. Adams.  Mt. Adams is segregated from the basin due to I-71 yet OTR does have "ways" to getting towards Mt. Adams, so I'd like to see a connection between the two.

I would like to see it become more connected with its German past.  Have some type of Germanesque signing and features on all the streets once you enter OTR.  Try to attract more breweries and the like (f you Hofbra for going to Newport) and try to recapture that feeling of being in Munich like it once was.  And I really think that Oktoberfest should be celebrated in OTR.  It is the German heart of the city, sorry downtown.

 

I tend to agree with that.  The German aspect is sort of obscured.  What about reviving Kramers or Gramers, that old German restaurant that used to be there? 

 

 

 

Being connected with German past is a good idea but If there's any Sauerkraut and Bratwurst type places you probably wont ever find me there lol. I've been to German Village in Columbus and the German architecture is a lot different, surprisingly. The buildings are really plain compared to OTR.  It doesn't have nearly as much character, but it's a really trendy and expensive place to live in Columbus. I don't see why we can't do the same kind of revitalization to our town.

Talk to Tarbell about Grammers.

That place used to be great.

heck, it used to be open

There was a Gold Star by Findlay Market (east end)

I don't know why either went out of business.

I think the south side of the market really needs help.

LATE NIGHT bus/shuttle/trolley service connecting downtown/stadiums/banks with OTR & Music Hall would help the night life.

Light rail is unneccesary

A lot of the crime will disappear as more people show up. It will probably escalate before it dies down, tho.

&, just like the burbs, you need parking

I think it is a mistake to try to find a theme. I think it is more important to keep the odd little stores there there.

I think a light rail is something that this city needs, if nothing else, just to look like we're actually dynamic and moving, progressing, etc. Sure it's not "necessary" but it's something that I would love to see happen, as well as all of my friends.  I think a light rail would bring more money into OTR, Mt. Adams, CBD and wherever else it stops, just like it does in Detroit. They're a lot more fun to ride, and I have a personal vendetta against buses because I hate getting stuck behind them and I hate how it takes so long to get anywhere on one.  Now whether or not the city would come out ahead after the cost of building and operating the lightrail, I don't know, maybe not, but it certainly would be cool to have one, regardless.

One of my big fears of light rail, & it might be unfounded, is that it will be invasive of the existing communities that are in a delicate position already.

Rail is a fixed thing & cannot adjust to shifts in population centers.

I think you would be better off with mini express bus routes. This, of course would confuse riders, but ........

I'm pretty sure you would get stuck at light rail crossings, too.

I see your points, but I think if we had a light rail, the housing near the stations would be in high demand for that simple fact, so there wouldn't really be a population loss. If anything, I think it would go up.  Over the Rhine used to have like 80-100k people, now it has 10-15k so I don't think we have that many more people to lose.  Plus it's practically downtown, so I think it's pretty low risk. Mini express routes are something they should do right now though.

 

What do you mean by invasive to delicate communities? You mean physically or economically?

Just wondering how feasible it is to try and put a light rail line through Mt Adams because of the steep hill its on?

Used to have one, so I'm sure there are good places for it...might need a new bridge over Eden Park Drive connecting to Sinton like it used to, though...I'd dig that!

I've always though it would be great to have a decent-sized student population in OTR, but I have no idea if trends at or around UC could lead in that direction or not.  If UC were twice the size that it is, OTR would probably already be a big student neighborhood. Not that being totally filled with students is the best thing in the world, but some level of student population definitely adds some liveliness.  Good transportation would be a must, of course.

 

(These are remarks made mostly out of ignorance of the area, so please don't hurt me if they're stupid.)

(Insert standard remark about including a Wal*mart, strip mall, and/or surface parking.)

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but all the best redevelopement/specialized retailing in the world won't help OTR unless the image can be altered.

 

You could change the name to East Chester and then you'd have the hottest place on the planet! :-)

I've always though it would be great to have a decent-sized student population in OTR, but I have no idea if trends at or around UC could lead in that direction or not.  If UC were twice the size that it is, OTR would probably already be a big student neighborhood. Not that being totally filled with students is the best thing in the world, but some level of student population definitely adds some liveliness.  Good transportation would be a must, of course.

 

(These are remarks made mostly out of ignorance of the area, so please don't hurt me if they're stupid.)

For someone that doesn't know much about it, I think you still hit the nail on the head. A lot of student housing seems to be going up in Corryville right now though. I know of a few people that go to UC and live Over-The-Rhine for its low cost of living, which is important when you're a broke college student so I think that's a good reason for it to pervade into that direction as well.  UC should be growing...they wouldn't be doing all this developing if they weren't increasing enrollment it seems like. The steep hill makes it a huge barrier though.

 

 

^I'm noticing this trend of controlled growth of Ohio state supported schools. The state wants to combine programs and resources so I wonder if the fact that nearby Miami is shrinking will hurt UC.

 

BTW, I love that you used that quote for your signature, its one of my favorite lines.

Rail is a fixed thing & cannot adjust to shifts in population centers.

 

The experience in many cities has been that the population centers (and investment) adjusts to the rail.

Michael, you inspired me to write some of my ideas into a plan:

 

Introduction

 

Over-the-Rhine was inhabited by the great German immigrant populations of the 19th Century.  Their love of classical music is the legacy that is bestowed unto us to this day:  Over-the-Rhine is a major center of the fine arts, and this is the key to its resurrection. 

 

In 2003, Jim Tarbell developed a plan to use the arts to build a stronger neighborhood.  Using the 2002 Over-the-Rhine Comprehensive Plan as a guideline, he divided the neighborhood into eight significant districts.

 

 

He knew that the quickest and most effective way to reviving the neighborhood was to attract the artists and bohemians that pave the way for others to invest in urban neighborhoods.  To me, this is the logical starting point in any revitalization plan: the arts and market-rate housing.

 

Incentivize developers to invest in the neighborhood by providing low-interest loans and some subsidies to jump-start development of condominiums and apartments. 

 

 

Here are some ideas of my own:

 

The Vine Street Corridor

Create a artistic hub of design-related businesses.  Incentivize architectural and interior design firms to relocate to this central corridor.  Attract the substantial talent from the University of Cincinnati's acclaimed DAAP college to set up shop in the district.

 

Fashion District

Keep fashion design professionals from leaving the area by creating a network of inter-related businesses including both wholesale and retail firms. 

 

 

Street Improvements

The Vine Street corridor needs to undergo the type of streetscaping that helped to change the image of Main Street.  I believe that a festive array of colorful decorations should be built along the sidewalks.  Downtown Denver is perhaps the best example of decorative streetscaping, in such locations as Larimer Square and the 16th Street Mall.

 

 

Luckily, 3CDC is jump-starting the revitalization of the Vine Street corridor as we speak.  They have invested millions in Over-the-Rhine from Music Hall to Vine.

 

 

Main Street

Main Street is a success story in Over-the-Rhine.  One of its attractions for businesses is its access to high-speed telecommunications networks.  Bring in major web design firms that have survived the dot-com shakeout.  Incentivize these leading firms from across the nation to relocate in the Digital Rhine.  These high-tech design businesses would mesh well with the proposed arts and design corridor on Vine.

 

Pendleton

Use the SCPA as the new home for a world-class art center.  Provide the best young artists from Europe, Asia, and Latin America with studios free of charge for 2 years.  This program would turn Cincinnati into a major hub of art talent.

 

Public Spaces

Create intimate public spaces throughout the neighborhood.  Clean up the alley ways, and use them as spaces for cafes, art fairs, and public walkways. 

 

Use the open spaces and parking lots in Over-the-Rhine to create a network of public squares and European-styled piazzas.  Some prime areas would be the parking lots off of Sycamore Street, the gas station at Walnut and Liberty, and in the residential areas north of Washington Park. 

 

Brewery District

[img width=788 height=650]http://urbanlife.net/cincinnati/otr/brewery.gif[/img]

This is one of the great uptapped resources of our area.  We have an extensive selection of large buildings that can be used for a variety of uses, especially loft condominiums, and creative class commercial space.

 

Envision the Brewery District, in addition to the Mohawk District, as a place where new condominiums, in the shape of castles, dot the hillsides.  Here is what that vision would look like:

 

 

The Canal

Reviving the canal of yesteryear has long been a dream of mine.  Over-the-Rhine received its name because the Germans lived on the opposite side of the Miami-Erie Canal.  Going over the canal into the Rhineland, one went Over-the-Rhine.

 

During the great Centennial Exposition of 1888, when Cincinnati was one of the ten largest cities in America, Venetian gondolas plied the waters of the canal beside Music Hall.  Here is a fanciful vision of Cincinnati as Venice:

 

 

Transportation

I would like to add a couple of transportation ideas that have not been discussed:<br>

Build an aerial tramway to connect the basin with the surrounding hillsides.  Join Pendleton and Mt. Adams, and connect Findlay Market to Clifton Heights.  This would serve a practical function, in addition to being a cool attraction for visitors and suburbanites. 

 

 

I would like to add one more idea:  High Speed rail.  Imagine connecting the basin to Indianapolis, Dayton, Columbus, Lexington and Louisville with a 300 mile per hour system.  You could live in Over-the-Rhine and work in any of these cities.  It would change the face of the Midwest. 

 

Union Terminal would be the natural hub for such a system, one that would be an engine for our economy for the 21st Century and beyond.

 

 

 

 

Those are some great ideas. Personally I would love to see that, but I wonder, would there be a lot of people upset over such a huge change like this? No doubt if OTR turned into a fashion district, condos, and was made to look like Venice, it would ultimately kick the lower class people out.  OTR has always been a blue collar neighborhood hasn't it?, that definitely deviates it from it's roots.

Awesome ideas, The Last Don.  Seriously, awesome.

Thanks for the compliments, ColDay!

 

Those are some great ideas. Personally I would love to see that, but I wonder, would there be a lot of people upset over such a huge change like this? No doubt if OTR turned into a fashion district, condos, and was made to look like Venice, it would ultimately kick the lower class people out.  OTR has always been a blue collar neighborhood hasn't it?, that definitely deviates it from it's roots.

 

David, I think that your point is valid.  Over-the-Rhine historically has been a working class neighborhood.  Essentially, we have two options: one is to maintain the status quo, which will result in further deterioration of the historic structures in the neighborhood.  The other is to attract investment in order to stabilize the neighborhood.

 

Not all of the poor in Over-the-Rhine are the same.  The neighborhood has working poor, elderly, and the homeless.  I would personally prefer that the homeless services be moved to Queensgate, which has been a contentious issue.  In the end, I think that the neighborhood will be large enough to hold people from various socio-economic levels.

 

 

Those are some great ideas. Personally I would love to see that, but I wonder, would there be a lot of people upset over such a huge change like this? No doubt if OTR turned into a fashion district, condos, and was made to look like Venice, it would ultimately kick the lower class people out.  OTR has always been a blue collar neighborhood hasn't it?, that definitely deviates it from it's roots.

 

I am not familiar with this area on a personal level.  My knowledge of this area derives from information on this site, a general interest that led me to research the area on the website, as well as a friend who is from Cincinnati who has discussed this area with me from time to time.

 

It is unfortunate that progress will lead to displacement.  Unfortunately, the poor does not possess ownership in OTR...therefore they don't have a voice.  It is a fact of life and one of the backlashes of capitalism.  When poverty, illiteracy, and lack of ownership intertwine, there appears to be an increase in crime, blight, and neighborhood decay.  As the US economy becomes more business and service based (as opposed to manufacturing/industrial), socio-economically thriving city centers will become necessary.  Our economy is becoming more and more globalized and core cities will need to become attractive, vibrant, and flourishing enclaves.  We are currently witnessing how inefficient it is for businesses and individuals to sprawl beyond its core.  Tough decisions will need to be made for Cincinnati and other urban cores to reach their full development potential.  We have witnessed for at least five decades now the end results of warehousing the poor in certain areas and leaving declining cores to take on the burden of the resulting social ills.  In Atlanta, at one time the Virginia-Highlands area was a very desolate, run-down, and drug-crime-prostitute infested area.  If one were to drive through the area with no knowledge of its past then witness the ecletic shops/boutiques, restored homes, sidewalk cafes, galleries, etc.; they would be hard-pressed to believe how far that community actually declined at one time.  Now, it is simply a jewel in Atlanta as well as a premier enclave.  In summation, it appears as though there is this fight over OTR.  You have the visionaries like The Last Don who makes us drool over the possibilities for OTR.  Then you have David who reminds us of the ethics behind "urban renewal."  Moreover, you have an area of a dynamic city that, as of now, is a social, political, and economic burden to its core and metro area.  Finally, you have the realities of a global economy and other cities that have adapted to such changes are sucking the life out of Middle American cities.  The longer we wait to make the painful and inevitable decisions regarding OTR, the more expensive the price tag, literally and figuratively.  OTR has served its purpose for the poor and the working class.  Its time to move this revitalization forward.         

Wow, I didn't expect this much response so fast! Thank you

I am going to print these pages Friday morning and give to Brian Tiffany at the Chamber, we have a meeting to discuss moving OTR forward so hopefully some of this will be more than just dreams. So keep the ideas flowing.

 

Don and David,

Don, keep it coming, that is great!  Dave, you raise a good point that we do have some serious issues on implementation including gentrification, and also the new vs historical and how do we get our hands on the necessary parcels to do some of this.  Why don't we structure the conversation like this.  Lets go by the 8 neighborhood layout (in my mind I was using sectors but the neighborhood way I think is better) and after we lay out all of the ideas, sort through them all, then we can begin applying real world problems and issues to them.  

A huge problem I think OTR and the CBD has is a lack of lighting. We NEED new and better lighting. I would assume with an installation of new lights, there would be lower crime... no?

 

And not just new street lights, but classy street lights.

In addition to lighting, and I am speaking at least for the hillside, is overgrowth, even sunlight doesn't hit the street because of vacant lots with overgrown trees and honeysuckle.  I think that this is an improvement that we can actually do during the lead up to the Great American Cleanup.

 

Cincy Rise,

I see communities all over with very nice decorative lighting but we priced out lighting and WOW, anyone on here know how these communities do this?  Electric was an issue also, more info would be great if anyone has any.

 

Don,

Street Improvements

The Vine Street corridor needs to undergo the type of streetscaping that helped to change the image of Main Street.  I believe that a festive array of colorful decorations should be built along the sidewalks.

We are in the process of writing a grant to do just this for the Main St. steps, Heric Flores has designed a mosaic to do on the steps, it would be great to get the art students to do the same for Vine.

^It seems a lot of communities use SIDs to pay for new streetlighting.

That's a really good point. People from other places have said that to me about our CBD and OTR, that it's really dark. I think it also has to do with the buildings being so close together, blocking light. Not only would more lighting make it look safer but also make it look more vibrant, like there's a lot going on. I like the street lights above the road on short Vine.  The Short North in Columbus has them too and it looks really good.  How about recruiting some good artists to do large murals?  I think a lot of artists would jump on that opportunity, especially since the Art Academy and SCPA are nearby, and we have a lot of talent there. There are plenty of large brick walls to work with.  I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's something that looks tasteful.  Just have the artist submit a smaller scale version, review it and decide if it works.  You see a lot of buildings in Clifton with murals on the long sides of the buildings with a theme pertaining to the business. I think it looks great. That's a good way to get people's attention, and they might be more likely to stop in and spend money.  That would contribute to the artsy vibe of OTR. Random sculptures and statues would contribute to that effect as well. The neighborhood would provide a lot of inspiration for anyone wanting to study architecture and art here and would increase the number of creative people in the area.

What about the gateways to OTR?  How about Reading Rd, what a terrible entrance to the neighborhood from 71.  There is some decent street scaping at the bridge to Mt Adams, but you really don't see it unless A. you are going to Mt.Adams or B. leaving OTR-  There just isn't much there to say welcome to an up and coming neighborhood.  Central Parkway side I don't think is bad and I love coming down Sycamore into OTR.  But Reading, well thats crap.  The one building that was cal-cars, I had high hopes for something decent (my wife was pushing for a drive through Starbucks) but now I hear it is going to be a check cashing place.   We need something dramatic there lining Reading.

 

David,

I have one building that the students of either school could do a huge mural on and I don't think anyone would mind, the furniture building on Main.  Serta Matresses are great and all but I think we could do better than a 50ft tall one staring at us, especially when they don't sell them at that building anymore.  I would love to see more of the statues also that you talk about, the pigs went over great, we need something of our own in OTR.

 

Don,

Use the open spaces and parking lots in Over-the-Rhine to create a network of public squares and European-styled piazzas.  Some prime areas would be the parking lots off of Sycamore Street, the gas station at Walnut and Liberty, and in the residential areas north of Washington Park. 

That is truly a great idea, could you go deaper, give us some more info?

The Over-the-Rhine Comprehensive Plan from 2002 features some good street scaping concepts.  It includes a plan for the Reading Road/Liberty intersection that has been partially completed.

 

The plan can be downloaded from the City of Cincinnati website.

 

 

Don,

Use the open spaces and parking lots in Over-the-Rhine to create a network of public squares and European-styled piazzas.  Some prime areas would be the parking lots off of Sycamore Street, the gas station at Walnut and Liberty, and in the residential areas north of Washington Park. 

That is truly a great idea, could you go deaper, give us some more info?

 

^

I see the empty spaces in the neighborhood as catalysts for new development.  You could take a parking lot or a blighted property and build housing units around a central space.  These mini-squares could include fountains, outdoor tables, and benches for the public.  It is more of a European concept of shared public space.

 

These pockets would enhance the property around them, and could be scattered throughout the neighborhood.  In addition, with the inclusion of public space, government dollars could be leveraged towards the project.

 

 

Can we give lighting at bus/trolley/light rail/whatever stops priority ?

Maybe SORTA could get some federal bucks for this.

As far as murals go, haven't we been fighting that kind of thing for a while now ?

^Fighting against it?

Cincinnati has been fighting against graffiti.

 

My vision of what you were saying was less graffiti and more like the Kroger mural.  I think that the art students could pull something off on some of the buildings that we already have something on (ie furniture building on Main) that would add to, not take away from the character of the street.

There is a difference between graffiti and murals.  You wouldn't call the mosaic inside the dome at union terminal graffiti.  You wouldn't consider the 3-D Cincinnatus mural on Central Parkway graffiti.  I'm talking about giant pieces of artwork.  Graffiti is associated with gang activity and is found offensive and done without permission, on private property.  A big mural shouldn't be any more offensive to people than a billboard.  I see no reason why we should give Serta free advertising when they're not occupying the building.

Mike, in my opinion, the responses to your question have been too pie-in-the-sky.  Despite decades of studies and plans, OTR is a blighted neighborhood. The city can't even pay for the street cleaning, much less canals and cable cars.

 

Other things OTR does not need:  lights, murals, churches, affordable housing.  I am all in favor of them, but we already have that in abundance.  Bright street lights are annoying and glaring.  If you want to get rid of the cobra head lights and get some "historic" fixtures, fine, but don't make them too bright.  Bright lights do not make a dangerous neighborhood safer.  This is a myth.  The lights above short Vine are ugly and short vine has been on a steady decline since they were installed, with businesses closing every year.

 

An active business district, with lots of eyes on the street, and lots of invested people make a street inviting and safe, not lights.

 

The most chronic and most problematic area is the north Vine Street, and I haven't seen any specifics for this area.  Since we are dreaming here, I would propose a legalized gambling district for 3-4 blocks here.  This may not be realistic, but I think Vine street will require a dramatic move of somekind.

 

Referring to the Tarbell map that the last Don posted, I would modify the "arts area to run horizontally along 12th, connecting the Emery, Art Academy, Suders with new SCPA and Music Hall.

 

Generally, I would emphasize ownership (of real property and a feeling of ownership of the street), which will bring steady positive change.  Ownership can be through single family townhouses, condos, and housing cooperatives.  Renters should be encouraged to also control their environment, perhaps with a renter association that tackles issues such as crime and keeping rents affordable.  Small business should be given full control of their space, especially, the zoning should allow any public use on ground floors.   

 

I want the basics: safe civil streets, attractive parks, vibrant businesses, fixed-up buildings.  That to me would be a dream come true.

 

 

 

 

Jimmy,

 

When I first moved to OTR the thing that struck me was that one could almost do anything. The neighborhood just seemed to be at a point where radical things were actually possible. The reason that I started the thread was to try and capture some of that pie in the sky thinking, something out of the box. We all know that 99.9% of this will never come to fruition, but I would be able to settle for .1% and that could make all the difference. I think it is important for all of us when we travel down the rougher parts of OTR to be able to envision what could be, not just the harsh reality that is, as long as we have the dreamers dreaming up tomorrows ideas, OTR has a chance.

 

That being said, we are working on the other stuff to, but its nice to break away from the frustration that sometimes comes with the safe and clean issues and dream a little.

It seems like the biggest issue would be getting people to invest.  Hey Mike do you talk to any investors?  OTR needs a lot of investors that are willing to take the financial risk and dedicate time to this huge urban renewal project.  What kind of government incentives are offered to OTR businesses?  I don't know what kinds of grants, low interest loans or other incentives are offered but I think we should either increase it and/or raise more awareness of the opportunities businesses would have in OTR.

Everyday we talk to investors.  It seems to be an easier sell to people outside of Cincinnati than the people who are from here.  There are incentives including Tax abatement's etc but the biggest incentive is the low cost of acquisition of high quality architecture.  It is easy to take for granted what we have in OTR, it is easy to point to the high crime and disrepair but when compared to the high cost of places like Calif, NY, Fla, etc. OTR seems like a pretty good bet.

I agree that incentives are important, but I believe the most important thing is lending confidence rather than money to a potential investor.  We need to have great catalyst projects to that gives others the confidence to do a project/development of their own.  This is what we do when trying to paint the picture for a potential investor is to say look at this dev. or that dev. you are not the first, and you are not alone. 

Investors need to think that their dev will be utilized or purchased, that is why they are in it to begin with.  By people moving into downtown or going to the different venues offered here, more will come.  It is a catalyst effect and this is more valuable than low intrest loan or tax incentive.  You have more power than city council.

 

And one more thing to Jimmy,

I would propose a legalized gambling district for 3-4 blocks here

The best idea I've heard all day! 

Gambling ?

Well, heck, how about legalized drugs and prostitution ?

We could center the Catholic churches down there & it would be just like old times.

As far as the lights go, I was thinking of something so the daggone bus drivers could actually see you.

True quim,

I have to admitt, I am not that familiar with the bus stops in OTR.  Of course I see them, I simply have not payed close attention to them.  The ones I see are simply marked with a simple sign and that is it.  If we have people, students especially waiting in the dark for a bus, or waiting in the dark for anything in OTR it should be addressed.  I will be in OTR all day tomorow, and I will pay attention to the various stops, I did not relize it was a problem.

 

and as for gambling, I would like to see it on the river, we should at least be competitive with our neighbors, but I can't see it ever coming inland into OTR, if it ever does happen it will be more of a CBD issue than for us. 

Mike, in my opinion, the responses to your question have been too pie-in-the-sky.

 

Not all of the ideas on here are pie-in-the-sky.  For instance, extensive street scape improvements were done on Main Street in the 1990s.  New light fixtures were installed, power lines were buried, and new sidewalks poured.  The same thing can be done on Vine. 

 

Some of these ideas may seem cosmetic, but removing the blight is an essential step in the right direction.  Couple that with the fact that 3CDC is expected to get some development started on Vine.

 

Even the big ideas like the Venetian canal are possible.  Indianapolis built a canal, as did Oklahoma City.  San Antonio has extended its popular RiverWalk. In my view, a project like that can be done incrementally.

 

 

 

 

Ownership can be through single family townhouses, condos, and housing cooperatives.  Renters should be encouraged to also control their environment, perhaps with a renter association that tackles issues such as crime and keeping rents affordable.  Small business should be given full control of their space, especially, the zoning should allow any public use on ground floors. 

 

I think if there is still going to be renters and affordable housing for the "working poor" there is going to be some rentals, and I really like the idea of renters associations, as sort of a community organizing strategy...sort of a community control thing, as well as giving these folks some participation.

 

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The map posted upthread was pretty interesting.  In terms of regenerating the neighborhood im wondering if some sort of phased approach would work...pick an area like Pendelteon, which doesnt seem as rough as the rest of OTR, and really focus a big set of strategies on it, as sort of a demonstration project or proof-of-concept or test.

 

Based on whats been said and posted elsewhere here at Urban Ohio, the toughest nut to crack will be the Vine Street corridor..the blocks flanking Vine.  That seems the roughest part of OTR.

 

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One thing about some of the talk about some sort of interpretation of OTRs German history...note that the architecture in this neighborhood is not really German.  Its all revival architecture that is a take-off of what one sees in Europe, but its all very American.  The "German" features happen in terms of old signs or cornerstones and such....