Well who's going to fund all these options that are out there? I'm not against other options but what's a feasible plan. Do we do it like Stark and try to build a high-rise with no financial support?

 

There is a middle ground between Stark's vaporware skyscraper and green space.

 

Extend Metrohealth Dr. straight across to W.25th and extend W.23rd south to the straightened Metrohealth Dr.. That gives you two large parcels bounded by 25th, Sackett, Scranton, and Metrohealth Dr. about 1.5 acres each. A perfect starting point for real development, and only a fraction of Metro's overall footprint. Metro can partner with a developer for some kind of mixed income development (or market rate if demand is there).

 

The Prentiss Center can then be moved to the south side of Metrohealth Dr. across whatever development happens on these new parcels. Metro gets their pointless green space, and some of their land is spun off into something more befitting 25th.

 

There a supportive housing building already at 25th and Sackett. It's ironically the perfect urban structure -- 4 floors, built up the sidewalk, small commercial space on the corner. You could mirror this across Sackett onto the newly created development area.

MetroHealth committed to developing its neighborhood as well as its campus

Updated Mar 6; Posted Mar 5

By Karen Farkas, cleveland.com kfarkasCleveland[/member].com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The MetroHealth System is committed to revitalizing its West Side neighborhood while also replacing buildings and adding green space at its main campus, officials told Cuyahoga County Council members Monday.

 

Walter Jones, senior vice president of campus transformation, outlined the status of the MetroHealth Transformation plan, funded by $945.7 million in hospital revenue bonds the health system issued in 2017.

 

Council members at the committee meeting praised the county hospital system's plans to build a desperately needed new hospital as well as improve housing, add retail and oversee redevelopment of the Clark-Fulton neighborhood.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2018/03/metrohealth_committed_to_developing_its_neighborhood_as_well_as_its_campus.html#incart_target2box_default_#incart_target2box_targeted_

Nice to hear, but this thing becomes even more faux-suburban with each new rendering they show.

Maybe mentioned upthread, but I just noticed this plan calls for the demolition of the old church MetroHealth owns, between Scranton and W25th, just north of where they meet. There pretty much nothing about this plan I like.

And related:

 

"Soon Greater Circle Living won't be the only player in town. MetroHealth is looking to launch a similar incentive program to get its employees to invest in the Clark-Fulton neighborhood on the city's west side."

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/cleveland-employers-offer-incentive-for-employees-to-live-in-build-up-neighborhoods-near-work

 

Cleveland employers offer incentive for employees to live in, build up neighborhoods near work

Mike Brookbank

8:59 PM, Mar 7, 2018

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/cleveland-employers-offer-incentive-for-employees-to-live-in-build-up-neighborhoods-near-work

 

 

It's sad that the city has to tell the major sponsor of the West 25th bus line to enhance transit access to said bus line. Sounds like the classic case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=2972&CASE=NW%202018-031

 

METROHEALTH SITE MASTER PLAN

 

Back Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report (PDF format)

 

Project Information

 

Near West Case #  NW 2018-031

 

Address: 2500 MetroHealth Drive, Cleveland, OH 44109

Company: HGA Architects & Engineers

Architect:

Description:

Master plan for the MetroHealth campus

 

Notes:

Committee Actions/Submissions

 

Date: September 19, 2018

Committee: Staff

Action Type: Initial Plan Submission

Conditions/Notes:

More detail is necessary on the greenway between West 25th and Scranton. The design of this space will be crucial to the success of the site. Future iterations of the master plan must highlight transit connections along West 25th and Scranton, namely the MetroHealth bus line and the 81.

 

 

Date: September 26, 2018

Committee: Local Design Review Committee

Action Type: Conceptual Approval

It is sad, but with the proposed giant green moat around their campus, it shouldn't however be a surprise.

It is sad, but with the proposed giant green moat around their campus, it shouldn't however be a surprise.

 

Who is the chief architect?

MetroHealth receives $1-million Bank of America grant for campus transformation

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2018/11/metrohealth-receives-1-million-bank-of-america-grant-for-campus-transformation.html#incart_river_mobile_index

 

Many more graphics here:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/03152019/index.php#myGallery

 

NEAR WEST DESIGN REVIEW

NW2018-029 - MetroHealth Main Campus Building New Construction: Seeking Final Approval
Project Address: 2500 MetroHealth Drive
Project Representative: Walter Jones, MetroHealth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there is a real need for all of that green space, all though some of it would be a welcome addition to the area. I do like the long term plan to move the outpatient and senior living facilities though, but the overall design seems pretty bland, especially compared to the latest brick addition.

is it me or does the hospital tower resemble a tall coffin?

11 hours ago, andrew0816 said:

I don't think there is a real need for all of that green space, all though some of it would be a welcome addition to the area. I do like the long term plan to move the outpatient and senior living facilities though, but the overall design seems pretty bland, especially compared to the latest brick addition.

 

I honestly feel like Cleveland really lacks green space. I don't even know how we can be called the forest city anymore when our tree canopy is around, what, 19%?, and it's continuing to decline. We can't develop as a city by just converting vacant buildings to apartments and building fancy new buildings. I think we need to be adding a lot more green space to the mix. In the extensive traveling that I've done, I'm always underwhelmed when I come back to Cleveland and the lack of green space. I just interviewed for a job in Portland and their Downtown feels like a forest. There's so many trees and so much green space. Totally a different vibe. I wish Cleveland had an aggressive tree policy like they do. 

Edited March 14, 20196 yr by imjustinjk

That blank space in the diagram stating future, future what?

Although I like the look of the new hospital, I really wished they stuck with a more cohesive color scheme with the emergency center's red brick instead of going all white. The whole design looks mix-matched to me

5 hours ago, l0psidedfrock said:

is it me or does the hospital tower resemble a tall coffin?

Thank you!  I have been saying that since these designs have been floating around.  It is the first image I see and am surprised a hospital would aspire to have this shape represented in it's image

12 hours ago, imjustinjk said:

 

I honestly feel like Cleveland really lacks green space. I don't even know how we can be called the forest city anymore when our tree canopy is around, what, 19%?, and it's continuing to decline. We can't develop as a city by just converting vacant buildings to apartments and building fancy new buildings. I think we need to be adding a lot more green space to the mix. In the extensive traveling that I've done, I'm always underwhelmed when I come back to Cleveland and the lack of green space. I just interviewed for a job in Portland and their Downtown feels like a forest. There's so many trees and so much green space. Totally a different vibe. I wish Cleveland had an aggressive tree policy like they do. 

 

Let me rephrase: I don't like the orientation of the green space and think that the amount of it in their master plan is excessive. And it seems that not all of the green space will be available to the general public, which is understandable for the wellness garden, I suppose, but what about the rest of the park space?

 

@jbee1982 the "future" space in the diagram is for the relocated outpatient center (once the replacement for Prentiss is built on W. 25th & Sackett). And agreed on wanting a more cohesive building typology, thought Metro was trying to get away from its mix-matched look

 

 

49 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

 

Let me rephrase: I don't like the orientation of the green space and think that the amount of it in their master plan is excessive. And it seems that not all of the green space will be available to the general public, which is understandable for the wellness garden, I suppose, but what about the rest of the park space?

 

@jbee1982 the "future" space in the diagram is for the relocated outpatient center (once the replacement for Prentiss is built on W. 25th & Sackett). And agreed on wanting a more cohesive building typology, thought Metro was trying to get away from its mix-matched look

 

 

 

I don't think that its excessive per se. It has the potential to be well designed, and have public areas for the neighborhood in addition to areas for patients only. This area is really rundown, and the green space and new hospital could be catalytic in redevelopment. There's a need for employee housing, affordable housing for nearby residents, and retail.  MetroHealth, Metro West, and others are working really hard to improve the area. A large park would be an asset to the neighborhood.

1 hour ago, imjustinjk said:

 

I don't think that its excessive per se. It has the potential to be well designed, and have public areas for the neighborhood in addition to areas for patients only. This area is really rundown, and the green space and new hospital could be catalytic in redevelopment. There's a need for employee housing, affordable housing for nearby residents, and retail.  MetroHealth, Metro West, and others are working really hard to improve the area. A large park would be an asset to the neighborhood.

Additionally, if I'm not mistaken, a group bought the lots across the street for doctors offices (I think I remember reading it here a while back). That'll help bring some density here. There's tons of storefronts around here that are either unused or underused (I'm talking cell phone stores...), that could, in a perfect world, evolve to fit the new space created by this redesign..

14 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Additionally, if I'm not mistaken, a group bought the lots across the street for doctors offices (I think I remember reading it here a while back). That'll help bring some density here. There's tons of storefronts around here that are either unused or underused (I'm talking cell phone stores...), that could, in a perfect world, evolve to fit the new space created by this redesign..

 

I think that the issue with health campuses is that they're so insular. They have dining options within so many employees don't have to leave. I have friends who work at Metro, UH, the Clinic, etc. They leave sometimes if they get the chance to grab a bite, but also a lot of them don't get "breaks" where they can sit down and eat. One of my classes is working with Metro Health for economic development along W. 25th. There's so much potential. Also, if the area had a big park it could potentially draw in MetroHealth employees with kids.

1 hour ago, imjustinjk said:

 

I don't think that its excessive per se. It has the potential to be well designed, and have public areas for the neighborhood in addition to areas for patients only. This area is really rundown, and the green space and new hospital could be catalytic in redevelopment. There's a need for employee housing, affordable housing for nearby residents, and retail.  MetroHealth, Metro West, and others are working really hard to improve the area. A large park would be an asset to the neighborhood.

 

 

I don't see how any of this could help W. 25th St.  MetroHealth is already there, it's not new, nor expanding.  The problem has always been connection to the neighborhood surrounding it.  To solve that lack of connection, they're retreating even further into their massive site and leaving an oversized lawn as a buffer zone against the neighborhood.  They're calling it a park, but I'm not buying it.

6 minutes ago, X said:

 

 

I don't see how any of this could help W. 25th St.  MetroHealth is already there, it's not new, nor expanding.  The problem has always been connection to the neighborhood surrounding it.  To solve that lack of connection, they're retreating even further into their massive site and leaving an oversized lawn as a buffer zone against the neighborhood.  They're calling it a park, but I'm not buying it.

 

It really has to be well executed. If it has real park amenities it could be amazing, like a dog park, tennis courts, a baseball diamond, playground, whatever. It can't just be grass and a sidewalk with a few trees.

 

Edit - what would be really amazing, although I don't know if it is at all realistic, but some sort of pedestrian infrastructure to connect to the neighborhood to Steelyard. To get to the Walmart from Metroheaalth its a 30 minute walk. 

Edited March 14, 20196 yr by imjustinjk

19 minutes ago, imjustinjk said:

 

It really has to be well executed. If it has real park amenities it could be amazing, like a dog park, tennis courts, a baseball diamond, playground, whatever. It can't just be grass and a sidewalk with a few trees.

 

Edit - what would be really amazing, although I don't know if it is at all realistic, but some sort of pedestrian infrastructure to connect to the neighborhood to Steelyard. To get to the Walmart from Metroheaalth its a 30 minute walk. 

Chairlift! Imagine how fun that would be in the winter. 

 

This should be a priority though, Aldi moved down the hill leaving that neck of the woods with little for fresh, healthy groceries aside from convenient stores (and Save A Lot on Clark). Even dedicated bus service would be helpful a la Daves and Asiatown. 

 

I live in Old Brooklyn, and, despite it being a stones throw away, Steelyard is daunting in anything outside of a car (Towpath Extension should help, but only by a bit in this specific regard).

Just now, GISguy said:

Chairlift! Imagine how fun that would be in the winter. 

 

This should be a priority though, Aldi moved down the hill leaving that neck of the woods with little for fresh, healthy groceries aside from convenient stores (and Save A Lot on Clark). Even dedicated bus service would be helpful a la Daves and Asiatown. 

 

I live in Old Brooklyn, and, despite it being a stones throw away, Steelyard is daunting in anything outside of a car (Towpath Extension should help, but only by a bit in this specific regard).

 

I live Downtown without a car, and I generally will take car share if I really need to get Steelyard. The suburban style shopping center was kind of a flop in my opinion. Its not super accessible for a lot of people in neighborhoods literally a stone throw away. 

I sent an email to [email protected] asking what the park will entail. They quickly emailed back:

Quote

Hi Justin,
Specifics haven't been planned yet. The hospital isn't slated to be finished until 2022 and between now and then we're creating an EcoDistrict where community members will help decide ways to use the campus to its fullest capacity to support the community. (For more information, visit www.ecodistricts.org)

Thanks for reaching out to us.
Julie

 

Hopefully the purported community engagement process will produce something of value for community members and potential development.

1 hour ago, imjustinjk said:

 

It really has to be well executed. If it has real park amenities it could be amazing, like a dog park, tennis courts, a baseball diamond, playground, whatever. It can't just be grass and a sidewalk with a few trees.

 

Edit - what would be really amazing, although I don't know if it is at all realistic, but some sort of pedestrian infrastructure to connect to the neighborhood to Steelyard. To get to the Walmart from Metroheaalth its a 30 minute walk. 

 

That stuff all costs money to maintain, even more than grass does.  This will be a bunch of grass and you won't be allowed to walk on it.  Let alone play baseball.  The only neighborhood problem it will solve is lack of ornamental grass, which does not seem like it should be a top priority. 

16 minutes ago, 327 said:

 

That stuff all costs money to maintain, even more than grass does.  This will be a bunch of grass and you won't be allowed to walk on it.  Let alone play baseball.  The only neighborhood problem it will solve is lack of ornamental grass, which does not seem like it should be a top priority. 

 

I'm not here for your pessimism, and the need for quality green space in our neighborhoods is a hill that I will die on. Pretty buildings are nothing without trees, quality green space, and other natural amenities. If MH can spend $1 billion on a new campus, a few hundred thousands for some amenities is nothing. Green space along the eastern half of W. 25th could be transformational and help spur redevelopment across the street. Metro West and Jasmin Santana really care about the area, and I'm sure they'll  have a role in how this plays out. 

10 minutes ago, imjustinjk said:

 

I'm not here for your pessimism, and the need for quality green space in our neighborhoods is a hill that I will die on. Pretty buildings are nothing without trees, quality green space, and other natural amenities. If MH can spend $1 billion on a new campus, a few hundred thousands for some amenities is nothing. Green space along the eastern half of W. 25th could be transformational and help spur redevelopment across the street. Metro West and Jasmin Santana really care about the area, and I'm sure they'll  have a role in how this plays out. 

 

Metrohealth has not indicated that they intend to manage recreation facilities as part of this plan.  Maybe it is pessimistic to assume this greenspace will be closed to the public, as MH hasn't indicated that either, although that is exactly what happened to Public Square after its terraforming was complete.  

5 minutes ago, 327 said:

 

Metrohealth has not indicated that they intend to manage recreation facilities as part of this plan.  Maybe it is pessimistic to assume this greenspace will be closed to the public, as MH hasn't indicated that either, although that is exactly what happened to Public Square after its terraforming was complete.  

 

From everything that I’ve seen and heard, is that they intend to have a green space to connect/anchor the neighborhood. This plus the Irishtown Bend Park-and other green projects-could take the W. 25th corridor to another level. We’re already seeing tons of development on the northern stretch, and it’s moving south. In the next 10 years the 3 mile stretch between Detroit and I-71 are going to drastically change with a slew of building projects and green projects. It’s going to be an entirely brand new corridor. 

3 hours ago, imjustinjk said:

 

I live Downtown without a car, and I generally will take car share if I really need to get Steelyard. The suburban style shopping center was kind of a flop in my opinion. Its not super accessible for a lot of people in neighborhoods literally a stone throw away. 

If that’s considered a flop, with how many shoppers come there and how many brands are there (several of which aren’t anywhere else in the city), I’ll take that flop any day. 

12 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

If that’s considered a flop, with how many shoppers come there and how many brands are there (several of which aren’t anywhere else in the city), I’ll take that flop any day. 

 

I misspoke. I meant that it was a "flop" in the sense that its not in exactly the best location for access without a car. In a city with 22% of people without vehicle ownership that's one metric I use to measure success. Although there is decent transit access, the frequency of the #11, #16, and #81 can get dicey in off-peak hours. Also the #11 and #16 can get really caught up in train traffic. For something so centrally located, it's kind of walled off (surrounded by highways, industry, limited road access, etc.)- its a 36 estimated transit trip compared to 11 minute drive trip from my apartment. I think that the whole project was overall very successful in revitalizing the area, but equity is another important measure of success not to be overlooked. But that's all super off-topic. I just thought that some sort of pedestrian pathway from the general MetroHealth campus would be cool, but with all the highway interchanges and such I'm not sure if its possible. As the crow flies, Walmart is less than 1,000 feet from MetroHealth's campus.

I think not having any new buildings along west 25th is a mistake. They don't necessarily need to be Metro campus buildings but there certainly doesn't need to be a park that stretches 5 blocks on your major street. Add buildings at the north end of the park on 25th until you get to the main hospital building. There looks to be room for 5 buildings and possibly 2 across the street on that empty lot. That way there can still be a large park in front of the main hospital and equal sized park sections on either side of the "Hospital's driveway".

A nice usable park on a hospital campus would be nice.  But this isn't a good design at all.  Having a place where visitors can sit on bench with some trees could be nice while they are visiting loved ones who are in the hospital.

4 hours ago, Sammy Voz said:

I think not having any new buildings along west 25th is a mistake. They don't necessarily need to be Metro campus buildings but there certainly doesn't need to be a park that stretches 5 blocks on your major street. Add buildings at the north end of the park on 25th until you get to the main hospital building. There looks to be room for 5 buildings and possibly 2 across the street on that empty lot. That way there can still be a large park in front of the main hospital and equal sized park sections on either side of the "Hospital's driveway".

 

Many of the best designed cities counter the notion of not having expansive parks on their main streets. I don’t see the park not happening, so I think it’s more important to focus on the execution of it rather than hoping for buildings that aren’t going to happen. 

Edited March 15, 20196 yr by imjustinjk

I hope buses will stop at the actual hospital once it's moved back from the road, instead of dropping people on the wrong side of the greenspace.

Here's the article from Cleveland.com (don't know if it's been added previously):  https://expo.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/03/1afde53bdb8111/city-planning-commission-approves-10story-metrohealth-tower-scheduled-for-2022-completion.html

 

 

On 3/15/2019 at 1:52 PM, imjustinjk said:

 

Many of the best designed cities counter the notion of not having expansive parks on their main streets. I don’t see the park not happening, so I think it’s more important to focus on the execution of it rather than hoping for buildings that aren’t going to happen. 

Trendy design or not, I think it's equally important to point out that this is just lipstick on a pig. A pink squealing desolate stretch of W 25th that spans a whole urban neighborhood.

4 hours ago, Sammy Voz said:

Trendy design or not, I think it's equally important to point out that this is just lipstick on a pig. A pink squealing desolate stretch of W 25th that spans a whole urban neighborhood.

 

Apparently parks are ruinous, desolate blights and cities should just be covered in buildings completely and utterly 100%. Many people on this form seem to be super anti greenspace, which is insane. 

17 hours ago, imjustinjk said:

 

Apparently parks are ruinous, desolate blights and cities should just be covered in buildings completely and utterly 100%. Many people on this form seem to be super anti greenspace, which is insane. 

No it's because we see another large hospital campus over at Euclid and east 100th that has large green spaces that exist without any way to use them. They exist to look nice from a patient's window and seperate the hospital from the surroinding city. Do you think anyone will get off a bus that stops on W25th in January and walk 400 yards through a snowy, cold 'park' to get to their appointments at metro?

 

I don't want to speak for everyone else on here, but Perk Park is great since it was rebuilt. It now interacts with the neighborhood instead of being a sunken bunker. Public square got it mostly right with amanities to bring young and old through all seasons. Edgewater now has improved connections to the neighborhoods up on the bluffs, and the beach house which hosts events all summer. 

 

If anything besides a city block wide swath of just grass and oak trees get laid down I will be surprised.

I'm like a block away and my kid and I will go to this park for sure. It's just the size of the park and the usage of a small section of the land that I'm disappointed in. You get these kind of opportunities once every 50 years and doing this right could really help this area along.

 

There will be a Metro community open house this Thursday, the 8th, and next Thursday, the 15th, from 6-7:30PM. 

 

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/community-open-house-tickets-64981298814

 

>Please join MetroHealth and Councilwoman Jasmin Santana for an interactive, virtual reality tour of the new hospital and for updates on neighborhood initiatives, programming and planned investments. Let’s continue the conversation and see how we're working together to support and strengthen our community. 

The event is free, parking will be free in the Sackett Lot (on MetroHealth Drive between W. 25th Street and Scranton Road), and refreshments will be served. We look forward to seeing you!

 

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by imjustinjk

"The NRP Group, a vertically-integrated, best-in-class developer, builder and manager of multifamily housing, today announced it will partner with The MetroHealth System and CCH Development Corp. to develop a mixed-use community in Cleveland's Clark-Fulton neighborhood."

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-nrp-group-metrohealth-system-and-cch-development-corp-develop-mixed-use-community-in-cleveland-300888098.html

Will there be a tower crane for the metro health building? 

4 minutes ago, Cleveland said:

Will there be a tower crane for the metro health building? 

 

Probably. It's a 10-story building and considering that it will have a pretty large footprint, there's a possibility it might need two tower cranes.

 

Edited August 13, 20195 yr by KJP

Interesting. When was the last time Cleveland had 4 or more tower cranes up at once? 

1980s

45 minutes ago, Cleveland said:

Interesting. When was the last time Cleveland had 4 or more tower cranes up at once? 

At the very moment What are the 4 - Lumen, Church & State, Metrohealth( soon )   and    ??

Yes that is what I am going off of is Lumen, Church & State and soon to be Metro Health with either 1 or 2. We have to remember that Market Square could have 2 cranes as well but will they be up at the same time as all of these other ones? 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Probably. It's a 10-story building and considering that it will have a pretty large footprint, there's a possibility it might need two tower cranes.

 

 

Metro will have one crane. Should be erected in the next few weeks. 

 

Four cranes are - lumen, church+state, metro, and the slow-build drury in Orange. 

Tower crane going up right now

Edited August 15, 20195 yr by MayDay
Moved post to correct thread and unlocked.