January 15, 20196 yr No electric vehicle is doing what a gasoline or diesel vehicle does at close to the same price. We are certainly at least 10 years away if not 20+ from the point when an unsubsidized electric car can do what an unsubsidized gasoline vehicle can do. We had wild predictions of peak oil in the late 2000s that did not come to fruition. We've got at least 10 if not 20+ years of cheap gasoline to go before the fracking boom levels off.
January 15, 20196 yr 18 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: No electric vehicle is doing what a gasoline or diesel vehicle does at close to the same price. We are certainly at least 10 years away if not 20+ from the point when an unsubsidized electric car can do what an unsubsidized gasoline vehicle can do. The cheapest Lexus - just as an example of a "luxury" brand vehicle, though there certainly are many others out there - sedan starts at $38k. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/16428458/us-energy-coal-oil-subsidies Quote Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought You can't really throw out the "unsubsidized" terminology when the energy for an ICE car is also subsidized. It's how you enjoy "cheap" gas - though it's still much more expensive per mile than if you had an EV. Very Stable Genius
January 15, 20196 yr The $35k Model 3 does not and never will exist. The $35k Chevy Bolt does exist. So does the $17k Chevy Spark. Is one Chevy Bolt better than two Chevy Sparks?
January 15, 20196 yr 27 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: No electric vehicle is doing what a gasoline or diesel vehicle does at close to the same price. We are certainly at least 10 years away if not 20+ from the point when an unsubsidized electric car can do what an unsubsidized gasoline vehicle can do. I'm genuinely curious, have you test-driven a Tesla? Because from personal experience, I would say that we are not only less than 10 years away from an electric vehicle being able to do what a gasoline or diesel vehicle does at the same price, we are less than zero years away. The Tesla Model 3 is the bestselling luxury car in the US and is approaching being among the bestselling sedans in the US. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/ It's not just crushing the Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, etc. competition, it almost outsold the Hyundai Elantra. I'm curious how high it would need to get before it would change your mind. What if it overtakes the Corolla, a car at least $15,000 (more like $20,000) cheaper than any Model 3 yet produced? Even if 100% of the $7500 tax credit (which is now set to phase out) is attributable to the purchase price, it doesn't explain that gap. 27 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: We had wild predictions of peak oil in the late 2000s that did not come to fruition. We've got at least 10 if not 20+ years of cheap gasoline to go before the fracking boom levels off. Yes, we do. You can go back to the Peak Oil thread on these boards and find that I was a strong and persistent critic of the theory, or at least of giving the theory any kind of weight in policymaking or market analysis. I still invested in Tesla early and bought one, and I stand by what I said about the dying dinosaurs of Detroit. EV drivetrain technology is simply superior. Electric vehicles are becoming competitive even against comparatively cheap gasoline. For one thing, the natural gas produced from fracking also powers some of the cheapest electrical generators in the market today. It isn't just keeping gasoline prices low, it's keeping electricity prices low, too. For another, many employers and even stores are allowing EV owners to charge at their places of business for free. Only about half of the electricity that has gone into my battery has come from my own meter or from paid Supercharging.
January 15, 20196 yr 5 minutes ago, Gramarye said: I'm genuinely curious, have you test-driven a Tesla? No, I've never test-driven anything and I've never driven a luxury car of any kind. I've ridden in a Mercedes twice and a Porche twice. I've never been in a BMW or anything else. I've never driven an SUV and haven't ridden in one since I got a ride home from high school in one 25~ years ago. I come from a land where people do not waste money on cars. My dad downgraded from a Volvo to a Ford Focus when he became VP of his company.
January 15, 20196 yr 36 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: The $35k Model 3 does not and never will exist. The $35k Chevy Bolt does exist. So does the $17k Chevy Spark. Is one Chevy Bolt better than two Chevy Sparks? Is a burger from Max & Erma's better than two from McDonald's? Very Stable Genius
January 16, 20196 yr You're much more likely to get the McDonald's burgers on time -- based on my recent experiences with Max & Erma's at multiple locations
January 16, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: The $35k Model 3 does not and never will exist. The $35k Chevy Bolt does exist. So does the $17k Chevy Spark. Is one Chevy Bolt better than two Chevy Sparks? If Chevy beat it's chest about the Bolt, Volt and Spark instead of bigass trucks the sales would be out of control. How many people that had no business buying Camaros and Firebirds (which were terrible daily drivers for the vast majority of people) during the '80s bought them anyway because the commercials were both rad and prolific?
January 16, 20196 yr 6 hours ago, DarkandStormy said: Is a burger from Max & Erma's better than two from McDonald's? I don't know I've never been to a Max & Erma's or know where one is. I have heard of it, though.
January 16, 20196 yr You're not really making a case against EVs. You're just making a case against any person spending more than ~$22k on a new vehicle. Spoiler - some people will spend more than you on certain products. Very Stable Genius
January 16, 20196 yr 16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: The $35k Model 3 does not and never will exist. The $35k Chevy Bolt does exist. So does the $17k Chevy Spark. Is one Chevy Bolt better than two Chevy Sparks? I am confident that the $35k Model 3 will exist within 2 years. Meanwhile, the $35k Chevy Bolt is seeing sales slumping in the US, and GM is starting to target foreign markets for it: https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-us/ We'll see how that goes. But at least in the US, Tesla's $55k cars are dominating GM's $35k offering. People will pay for quality. 15 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: No, I've never test-driven anything and I've never driven a luxury car of any kind. I've ridden in a Mercedes twice and a Porche twice. I've never been in a BMW or anything else. I've never driven an SUV and haven't ridden in one since I got a ride home from high school in one 25~ years ago. I come from a land where people do not waste money on cars. My dad downgraded from a Volvo to a Ford Focus when he became VP of his company. I used to be from that land, too. I bought my first and second cars used, in cash. My first was $7200, ultimately traded in for a little above scrap value, and my second was $14k, traded in to Tesla for $7k. Those combined lasted me from 2007 to 2018. Tesla changed that game for me, and for many others, too. They even call it the Tesla Stretch ... people, like me, who would never have dropped $55k on a car prior to Tesla will do so for a Tesla. So now I have a Tesla, and the first car payment of my life (and it's admittedly a doozy, since I took a 42-month loan to take advantage of my credit union's 1.99% APR), and I'm obviously an enthusiastic promoter of the brand and a shareholder. 15 hours ago, DarkandStormy said: Is a burger from Max & Erma's better than two from McDonald's? Even if not, almost anyone will have more use for two cheap burgers than for two cheap cars. People need one reliable car. Of course, there are cars that are both reliable and cheap (e.g., the Toyota Corolla that the Model 3 is closing in on in sales figures). They're just also not as exhilarating to drive, and you have to waste time taking them to gas stations rather than just waking up and just having them filled with fuel and ready to go. 39 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: You're not really making a case against EVs. You're just making a case against any person spending more than ~$22k on a new vehicle. Spoiler - some people will spend more than you on certain products. That's getting harder and harder to do, too. The base MSRP of the Corolla is $18,700. Civic is $19,450. Sentra is $17,790. The Focus that his dad got is going out of production; last model was $17,950. Any modest level of options and you're closing in on that $22k level.
January 18, 20196 yr Trouble in paradise: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/business/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk/index.html I return to the "moat" business concept popularized by Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger. Tesla is only enjoying a brief "moat" advantage. Other manufacturers will soon enter the luxury car, sports car, and SUV markets. Porche, Mercedes, etc. Tesla is borrowing money like crazy to try and "get big", so will be vulnerable to collapse.
February 6, 20196 yr Great news in paradise! Tesla cuts the price of the Model 3. https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/business/tesla-model-3-price-cut/index.html
February 6, 20196 yr Right as they raise the base price of their other Models by $10,000 to $15,000 by eliminating the lowest battery capacity option from the cars. Edited February 6, 20196 yr by GCrites80s
February 7, 20196 yr The way that they factor in "fuel savings" as part of the price of the car is really dumb. Even on their website, they display the price of the Model 3 as $34,850* and then when you get to the end it reveals that the actual price is $42,900.
February 7, 20196 yr 20 hours ago, GCrites80s said: Right as they raise the base price of their other Models by $10,000 to $15,000 by eliminating the lowest battery capacity option from the cars. I wouldn't be surprised if the lower battery capacity options weren't selling that well. One of the biggest obstacles to people buying electric cars is range anxiety.
February 7, 20196 yr https://electrek.co/2019/02/06/republican-senator-bill-kill-electric-vehicle-tax-credit/ Quote Republican senators push new bill to kill electric vehicle tax credit completely and add new EV tax Very Stable Genius
February 7, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, taestell said: I wouldn't be surprised if the lower battery capacity options weren't selling that well. One of the biggest obstacles to people buying electric cars is range anxiety. And if the bulk of your driving is under 50 miles, let's say, then you're likely buying a much cheaper Nissan Leaf or even a PHV. You give up a 250+ mile electric range, but also save potentially $15k+. Very Stable Genius
February 7, 20196 yr On 1/18/2019 at 2:45 PM, jmecklenborg said: Trouble in paradise: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/business/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk/index.html I return to the "moat" business concept popularized by Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger. Tesla is only enjoying a brief "moat" advantage. Other manufacturers will soon enter the luxury car, sports car, and SUV markets. Porche, Mercedes, etc. Tesla is borrowing money like crazy to try and "get big", so will be vulnerable to collapse. Seems you have a particular tunnel vision for Tesla layoffs (which came after a period of intense growth and still leave the company quite a bit larger than it was two years ago in terms of workforce). Thoughts on the layoffs at GM? https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/02/gm-is-profitable-but-its-still-laying-off-4000-workers/ Ford? https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-ford-europe-layoffs-20190110-story.html The real question is whether Tesla is able to produce and sell enough cars at high enough margins to service its debt. You're quite right that their debt burden is significant (though I'd note that no car company operates without debt financing, to the best of my knowledge). And the company hit another production and delivery record in Q4. https://electrek.co/2019/01/02/tesla-record-deliveries-production-q4/ Granted, that was with the federal tax credit about to halve. We will see whether and to what extent the loss of half the tax credit, in some sense offset by the sticker price reduction, impacts sales (and more importantly, margins) in 1Q19. However, as of last week's conference call, Musk said that the company has enough cash on the balance sheet to make a scheduled $920 million bond payment in March, which will eat a decent chunk out of the company's $10B-ish debt load. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/business/tesla-earnings-elon-musk.html (I get it, less than 10% of the overall debt load, but that's still a respectable slug, and the goal isn't to pay off the entire debt ever, or at least not while there's still expansion in the works as well. Managing debt is part of the life of any car company.)
February 7, 20196 yr 52 minutes ago, taestell said: The way that they factor in "fuel savings" as part of the price of the car is really dumb. Even on their website, they display the price of the Model 3 as $34,850* and then when you get to the end it reveals that the actual price is $42,900. Completely agreed on this. Especially because the fuel saving math can become over-aggressive when the price of gas remains moderate, which it has. 46 minutes ago, taestell said: I wouldn't be surprised if the lower battery capacity options weren't selling that well. One of the biggest obstacles to people buying electric cars is range anxiety. It's hard to know that yet because the short-range battery was never even produced yet. All production has gone into higher-margin versions, i.e., ones with many options selected. It's generally accepted that a lot of the reservation backlog is people waiting for the $35k model, which would be short-range RWD. With the release of the "mid-range" model, a concept that didn't even exist and launch, and the price cut, it's likely that Tesla wants to tempt at least some of that backlog off the sidelines to commit to mid-range RWD models (still considerably more affordable than long-range AWD models. but well above $35k), before they try to tackle the production challenges of the $35k price point. The company admits it can't hit that target profitably yet. Because the options change the price of the car so much, you can spec out a Model 3 for $43k now all the way up to $80k+. That's serious variability, though I haven't even checked to see if other luxury car marques have similar variation in their models. I'm guessing not, though; they'd have entirely separate model lines to target those various market segments (e.g., BMW 3-, 5-, and 7-series).
February 7, 20196 yr 39 minutes ago, Gramarye said: Because the options change the price of the car so much, you can spec out a Model 3 for $43k now all the way up to $80k+. That's serious variability, though I haven't even checked to see if other luxury car marques have similar variation in their models. I'm guessing not, though; they'd have entirely separate model lines to target those various market segments (e.g., BMW 3-, 5-, and 7-series). You can turn an $80K Porsche 911 into $130k+ quite easily with options. M-B can be very bad with that as well. The different model lines in German luxury are defined by size ordinarily.
February 28, 20196 yr https://actionnetwork.org/letters/proposed-ohio-ev-ownership-fee Quote Clean Fuels Ohio is currently hearing that the House intends to propose a $200 annual fee on EVs and a $100 annual fee on plug-in hybrids as part of the state transportation budget. Oh good, Ohio is apparently trying to lead the way in stupidity. Very Stable Genius
February 28, 20196 yr ^ It needs to happen at some point. EVs put the same amount of wear and tear on infrastructure as any other passenger vehicle (if not more given that they're often heavier), but their users don't contribute to paying for said infrastructure via gas taxes. As more and more electric cars end up on the roads, some sort of funding mechanism will have to replace gas taxes.
February 28, 20196 yr They ought to move to a VWMT (vehicle weight miles traveled) system for everyone, then. Or just pay for roads out of the general budget and abandon the accounting fiction (just a cultural and rhetorical separation, not a legal one) of a "segregated" or "trust" fund for transportation infrastructure.
February 28, 20196 yr 56 minutes ago, Gramarye said: They ought to move to a VWMT (vehicle weight miles traveled) system for everyone, then. Or just pay for roads out of the general budget and abandon the accounting fiction (just a cultural and rhetorical separation, not a legal one) of a "segregated" or "trust" fund for transportation infrastructure. I agree. ? The "transportation fund" is already the "accounting fiction" given how frequently it is bailed out with general funds.
February 28, 20196 yr https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-unveils-35000-standard-model-3-220744734.html Quote Tesla unveils $35,000 standard Model 3, shifts worldwide sales to online-only Very Stable Genius
February 28, 20196 yr On 1/2/2019 at 9:42 PM, jmecklenborg said: Tesla is still in a deep debt swamp. Its luxury cars are profitable but the imaginary $35,000 Model 3 will never exist and it couldn't be profitable if it did exist. On 1/16/2019 at 10:09 AM, Gramarye said: I am confident that the $35k Model 3 will exist within 2 years. I'll take my I-told-you-sos in small unmarked bills, thanks. ? https://electrek.co/2019/02/28/tesla-model-3-standard-battery-interior/ Tesla finally launches base Model 3 for $35,000 with shorter range and new interior Tesla is finally launching the long-promised standard Model 3 with a base price of $35,000 – fulfilling Elon Musk’s “secret masterplan” released back in 2006. The automaker is now making several new versions of the Model 3 available with a shorter range and new interior options. Elon Musk has been teasing an important Tesla announcement this week and now we finally have the details. Tesla has been gradually releasing cheaper versions of the Model 3 over the last year, but it has never been able to bring the price down to $35,000 – the mass market price that they have been promising. The standard battery pack and interior has been delayed on several occasions… until now. Also of relevance to me, later in the article: Tesla is also updating Autopilot options and pricing. The base Autopilot package is now cheaper ($3,000 before delivery – $4,000 after) but it only includes Autosteer and Traffic Aware Cruise Control. All the features previously found in ‘Enhanced Autopilot, like Summon and Autopark, are now part of the Full Self-Driving package which is $2,000 more than the standard Autopilot package. This is big news for me because by far the most-used feature of Enhanced Autopilot (which was formerly $5000 pre-delivery, $6000 after, and actually then raised to $6000/$7000) was TACC, and was the only thing I'd have considered getting it for. I don't need Summon and Autopark. The $3000 reduction of that $7000 post-delivery price tag to $4000 in exchange for losing Summon and Autopark might just get me to consider it. The big potentially negative news for me in there is the store closings announcements. The question for at this point, since I already own the car, is whether it means service centers (which are generally located at "stores") will be closing. I don't need the store to show me new products, though an online-only sales strategy makes me wonder how much more difficult getting a test drive will be for prospective customers. For my own selfish purposes, though, I'm most concerned about whether the Lyndhurst service center will close.
March 1, 20196 yr I know the Easton one in in the process of moving from a small space in the middle to a much larger space in the old H.H. Gregg. Service takes up a lot of space.
March 1, 20196 yr 6 hours ago, Gramarye said: I'll take my I-told-you-sos in small unmarked bills, thanks. ? https://electrek.co/2019/02/28/tesla-model-3-standard-battery-interior/ I just went on the website. I suspected smaller wheels but instead we get the standard 18" wheels but with wheel covers that look like the sets you buy at Wal-Mart for $14.99. The option for real wheels is $1,500. Also, you can only get the color black. Every other color is either $1,500 or $2,000. I don't know if they're skimping on the black paint to save money or if it's of the same quality as the other colors. So for most people, the minimum price will be $38,000. Also, absolutely no information is given regarding a delivery fee. Where do you get the car (today we heard that Tesla will close most of its dealerships)? Do you have to fly to Oakland and drive the thing back to wherever you live? Do you have to pay for California temporary tags just to drive the thing back to Ohio?
March 1, 20196 yr 5 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: I just went on the website. I suspected smaller wheels but instead we get the standard 18" wheels but with wheel covers that look like the sets you buy at Wal-Mart for $14.99. The option for real wheels is $1,500. Also, you can only get the color black. Every other color is either $1,500 or $2,000. I don't know if they're skimping on the black paint to save money or if it's of the same quality as the other colors. So for most people, the minimum price will be $38,000. Also, absolutely no information is given regarding a delivery fee. Where do you get the car (today we heard that Tesla will close most of its dealerships)? Do you have to fly to Oakland and drive the thing back to wherever you live? Do you have to pay for California temporary tags just to drive the thing back to Ohio? The way Musk seems to do things, they won't charge for delivery but won't announce this until they have already delivered a few.
March 1, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: I just went on the website. I suspected smaller wheels but instead we get the standard 18" wheels but with wheel covers that look like the sets you buy at Wal-Mart for $14.99. The option for real wheels is $1,500. Also, you can only get the color black. Every other color is either $1,500 or $2,000. I don't know if they're skimping on the black paint to save money or if it's of the same quality as the other colors. So for most people, the minimum price will be $38,000. Also, absolutely no information is given regarding a delivery fee. Where do you get the car (today we heard that Tesla will close most of its dealerships)? Do you have to fly to Oakland and drive the thing back to wherever you live? Do you have to pay for California temporary tags just to drive the thing back to Ohio? With today's environmental regulations the dull solid colors such as black and white are cheapest for the factories to shoot without the paint peeling off after a couple years like a '90s car.
March 1, 20196 yr 11 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: I just went on the website. I suspected smaller wheels but instead we get the standard 18" wheels but with wheel covers that look like the sets you buy at Wal-Mart for $14.99. The option for real wheels is $1,500. Also, you can only get the color black. Every other color is either $1,500 or $2,000. I don't know if they're skimping on the black paint to save money or if it's of the same quality as the other colors. So for most people, the minimum price will be $38,000. Sure, if you want the absolute cheapest car possible, you make sacrifices on the option front. But you're being too harsh on the wheels. The aero wheels are the same ones I have and they don't look like they were $15 at Wal-Mart, and the "real" wheels you're saying are a $1500 option are not just flashier, they're larger 19" wheels. If anything, the 18" standard wheels have some advantages in colder, snowier climates, or I'd have gotten the 19" ones myself. And if you've got $2000 to commit above the absolute minimum price, you'd be much better advised to put it towards the Standard Range Plus model (which in addition to slightly longer range comes with slightly better acceleration and top speed and a slightly better interior) and stick with black paint than splurge $1500 on a flashier color or getting 1" larger wheels.
March 1, 20196 yr Closing their dealerships in order to cut costs so they can reduce the price of their vehicles does not sound like a winning strategy to me. If they want to continue to sell cars to mostly tech nerds, ordering via their website is fine. But if they want to become more mass market, that's not going to happen unless they have dealerships where people can stroll in and take a test drive.
March 1, 20196 yr Remember, to the Tech Bro the only important customers are other Tech Bros. Never mind older people that have tons of money and always qualify for financing and like buying things the old way.
March 2, 20196 yr Anecdotally, I have noticed way more Teslas on the streets of Over-the-Rhine in the past few weeks. Like, I go to my window and look down at the traffic on Main Street for a minute or two, and I will see 1 or 2 Teslas driving down the street during that time.
March 11, 20196 yr https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/reuters-america-trump-budget-proposes-ending-electric-vehicle-tax-credit.html Quote Trump budget proposes ending electric vehicle tax credit Very Stable Genius
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/1/2019 at 12:40 PM, taestell said: Closing their dealerships in order to cut costs so they can reduce the price of their vehicles does not sound like a winning strategy to me. If they want to continue to sell cars to mostly tech nerds, ordering via their website is fine. But if they want to become more mass market, that's not going to happen unless they have dealerships where people can stroll in and take a test drive. Tesla is partially backing off the plan to close stores, saying that only about half of the stores previously planned to close will close now. They're going to try to raise prices of their higher-end models by about 3% instead. Not sure how high up in the chain this goes (e.g., would this encompass the Performance Model 3? Non-Performance but Long Range AWD Model 3?). It will definitely affect the S and the X, though. https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/company-news/201903110933RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KBN1QS0JF-OUSBS_1
March 11, 20196 yr They have to keep them open in order to fulfill their lease requirements. Musk actually thought that he could just shut them down anytime he wanted like they are servers. The attorneys and accountants at the company had to inform him that he couldn't do that.
March 15, 20196 yr https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-unveils-model-y-suv-041050132.html Tesla unveiled it's Model Y last night and as they said - it's mostly built on the Model 3 frame. It fits, space-wise, into the compact SUV space. Because of the familiarity of the parts with the Model 3, mass production should be much easier but many people seemed underwhelmed by a "slightly larger Model 3." Elon noted earlier press releases that Tesla will be upgrading all of its 12,000+ superchargers (and adding more) so that charging times will be reduced - 1,000 miles/hour is the goal (of course, with a 310 mile range on a Model 3 that means fully charging in ~20 minutes at a supercharger, though likely less time if you aren't starting from 0%. Pre-orders are now available on the Y and the Semi. He also noted that production slowed to almost a halt last year on the solar roof as they focused the Li-Ion production on the Model 3 batteries. Rumors are swirling about the next unveiling to be some sort of pickup. Wall Street seems mostly unimpressed by the event last night (which was about 80% just a quick history of the company). Very Stable Genius
March 15, 20196 yr It was probably wise not to try to INNOVATE too much with this one. Crossovers really should be based on the sedans and hatchbacks of a model line to keep engineering and parts costs down. That way, you can charge people $15,000 more for the same vehicle just taller and heavier. All you have to do is tell them that they want to sit up higher for some reason.
March 15, 20196 yr SUVs and crossovers even worsen traffic jams since people in SUVs sit up so pointlessly high that it makes things close to them in the front seem "too close" PLUS people won't pull their vehicles close to the of back SUVs since they tower over everything and block the view. Previously sufficent car storage areas of off ramps and intersections get too full since each vehicle is now a full car length from the next.
March 27, 20196 yr Bait & Switch: http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/tesla-model-3-buyers-claim-bait-and-switch-over-delayed-delivery-of-standard-range-cars/ar-BBVgujR?ocid=ientp While Tesla opened orders for the Standard Range trim last month, buyers have now reported Tesla reps are delaying their scheduled delivery dates and trying to upsell them on pricier trims. Which begs the question: Has Tesla built even one base Model 3?
April 10, 20196 yr https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/10/tesla-shares-jump-as-lawmakers-begin-push-to-expand-ev-tax-credits.html Quote US lawmakers begin push to expand federal electric vehicle tax credits A bipartisan group of legislators is pushing to expand the EV tax credit to 400,000 automobiles per auto manufacturer (currently 200k), and the offset is that it would phase out over 9 months instead of the current 15 months. GM and Tesla have hit the 200k threshold (and if this new bill passes, it may complicate things for the folks who got the "half" credit within the last year from buying a GM or Tesla EV). Very Stable Genius
April 10, 20196 yr If they really wanted to help they could change it so that people who make less than $90k a year get the full effect of the credit.
April 30, 20196 yr https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the-actually-electric-cars-pollute-more-bu-1834338565 Very Stable Genius
June 28, 20195 yr Tesla losing its federal tax credit: https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/business/tesla-tax-credit-loss/index.html
July 17, 20195 yr Do you BELIEVE Musk's PROMISE that existing Teslas will be worth $100-200K in THE FUTURE? Back in April, Elon Musk made the specious argument that Teslas are great investments because they’ll be worth more in the future once they’re capable of full self-driving, which he believes can be achieved with nothing more than a software update. Musk’s hypothetical ignores that, in this fantasy world where every Tesla becomes a capable robotaxi, other cars will probably be capable of autonomous driving, too. But, It’s highly improbable—and the height of hubris—to assume Tesla will be the only company capable of full self-driving for any appreciable amount of time. https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-really-really-believes-teslas-will-increase-1836446085
July 17, 20195 yr My friend believes TSLA will go to $1,000/share because Musk is actually building a fleet of robocars and that will generate so much more revenue with very little expenses involved because they'll be a B2B company. Musk makes outlandish claims all the time about his products and the fanboys eat it up. A bunch of people just left their autonomous segment because they weren't meeting Musk's ridiculous timeline to get it done. Even if they somehow get a million self-driving Teslas on the road in a couple years, where are they going to go when they need charged? Plus, I'm much more inclined to trust a driver from Uber/Lyft than a car with no driver that hasn't yet demonstrated Level 5 autonomy, especially when on some of my trips it's not entirely clear where a good drop off point is. https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-elon-musk-interview/ Quote There's not like some finance spreadsheet or something like that with some market analysis. There's none of that. When you're CEO of a company bleeding money and admit you don't do any financial analysis.... Very Stable Genius
July 17, 20195 yr This is the kind of thing that convinced me to significantly lighten my holdings in TSLA the stock even as I think the Model 3 was among the best purchases I ever made (and I paid the early-adopter premium, you can get the Performance model today for barely any more than I paid for the LR AWD non-Performance version). https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/16/tesla-cuts-price-on-model-3-discontinues-versions-of-model-s-model-x.html That Performance version was at one time $70k+ or so, now down to $55k. What grinds my gears (even though I no longer have them) is that it doesn't need this kind of puffery from Musk. It is an extraordinary engineering achievement on its own terms. It's vastly cheaper per mile to drive even when charged on electricity I had to pay for, and free chargers are increasingly abundant. I've paid for charging (including using my home outlet) 3 times in the last 2 months, a grand total of about $13, while driving around 1200 miles in that time, all much more fun miles than I got in any gasoline car I've ever driven.
Create an account or sign in to comment