Going back to this discussion:

 

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Something like a Gateway Arch?

 

That was in my mind as well.  Especially how you can take elevators to the top of the Arch and the historical center/museum at the base.

Cleveland needs a modern day icon or symbol, I propose at the mouth of the Cuyahoga River a "Colossus of Rhodes" type structure that is anchored on each side of the river and boats/ships could pass under it.  What or who the statue would be of is up for discussion, Moses Cleaveland?  It would have to be tall enough as not to impede any river traffice and have an observation deck for visitors to ascend.  While it is an "out there" idea, I think Cleveland needs to think outside the box, like the aerial tram, and dare to be different.

 

 

Something like a Gateway Arch?

 

The visual of Cleveland that comes to my mind is all those steel bridges crossing over the Cuyahoga River.  So yeah, doing something with a bridge motif would be appropriate.  Plus, it was part of Cleveland's economic history to be a "bridge" between the East Coast and the Midwest.

 

Another idea would be a large statue or sculpture depicting metamorphosis or change.  Part of it would be rough-looking iron (representing the city's past); part of it would be polished steel and chrome (representing the future). The idea both honoring the past and with a progressive eye on the future.

Cleveland needs a modern day icon or symbol, I propose at the mouth of the Cuyahoga River a "Colossus of Rhodes" type structure that is anchored on each side of the river and boats/ships could pass under it.  What or who the statue would be of is up for discussion, Moses Cleaveland?  It would have to be tall enough as not to impede any river traffice and have an observation deck for visitors to ascend.  While it is an "out there" idea, I think Cleveland needs to think outside the box, like the aerial tram, and dare to be different.

 

 

That's easy......  :-P

 

^ That made think of having two large detached Guardians, except holding boats instead of road vehicles.

 

Ding Ding Ding That's it exactly. I actually had that same thought recently, go figure. 7-10 stories tall, how awesome would that look lit up at night. And your right they would be holding ore carriers. Someone needs to do a rendering of that. I'll see what I can comes up with. One could have an observation deck on top. That would be sic...

I don't really understand how the guardians represent cleveland other than the fact that they are on an iconic bridge.  they're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they are beloved to the extent that people want them to represent sports teams, straddling on the mouth of the river, etc.

I don't really understand how the guardians represent cleveland other than the fact that they are on an iconic bridge.  they're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they are beloved to the extent that people want them to represent sports teams, straddling on the mouth of the river, etc.

 

One could say the same thing about Terminal Tower.  They're something that says you're here.

I don't really understand how the guardians represent cleveland other than the fact that they are on an iconic bridge.  they're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they are beloved to the extent that people want them to represent sports teams, straddling on the mouth of the river, etc.

 

I think you can take from it what you want, but from my perspective, they represent the city better than any iconic building, baseball team or company. The image they portray is one of hard work and nobility. And the transportation theme is appropriate when you consider how many components are manufactured in this region that are used to tranport people from point A to point B. To me they're a reminder that we still build things here. That's part of our history, but it's also who we are today.

^Exactly. One of my favorite photos...

While I love the Guardians of Transportation I actually don't like the idea of placing them at the foot of the river. If it were done in the '30's I think it would be cool and historic, but to do so now to me would be cheesy and disney-ish.

 

What I've always wanted to see was a dramatic fountain in the lake, a-la Jet d'eau in Geneva.  It's a way to say Cleveland FINALLY celebrates it's lakefront and could coincide with completion of developments on the lake.  While it couldn't be 450 feet high like in Europe because of Burke, it could be slightly taller than the stadium and align with the axis of the Mall.  I'd also place it inside the breakwall to not interfere with shipping.  Based on the pictures below it doesn't seem to interfere with pleasure boating.

 

Can you imagine standing on the convention center overlook and seeing the War fountain to the south and this jet of water taller than anything else on the lakefront to the north?  It would call you to the waterfront area for sure!  Some pics of the fountain in Lake Geneva...and hopefully Lake Erie!

 

geneva (1)

 

geneva-lakeside-view-photo-1

 

geneva2

 

 

Are we drifting off topic?

Not anymore -- I turned this into a new thread. Carry on!

ohh I love the idea of a giant fountain! Ive always thought one would be cool in the little cove created by Voinovich Park. Not completely sure where the new marina is located there though... isnt the southeast corner closest to the science center still open?

^ You wouldn't want it too close to any buildings or attractions because of wind.

I don't really understand how the guardians represent cleveland other than the fact that they are on an iconic bridge.  they're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they are beloved to the extent that people want them to represent sports teams, straddling on the mouth of the river, etc.

 

I think you can take from it what you want, but from my perspective, they represent the city better than any iconic building, baseball team or company. The image they portray is one of hard work and nobility. And the transportation theme is appropriate when you consider how many components are manufactured in this region that are used to tranport people from point A to point B. To me they're a reminder that we still build things here. That's part of our history, but it's also who we are today.

 

I've heard anecdotally that they were one of the inspirations for the scene in LOTR.

I don't really understand how the guardians represent cleveland other than the fact that they are on an iconic bridge.  they're cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why they are beloved to the extent that people want them to represent sports teams, straddling on the mouth of the river, etc.

 

I think you can take from it what you want, but from my perspective, they represent the city better than any iconic building, baseball team or company. The image they portray is one of hard work and nobility. And the transportation theme is appropriate when you consider how many components are manufactured in this region that are used to tranport people from point A to point B. To me they're a reminder that we still build things here. That's part of our history, but it's also who we are today.

 

I've heard anecdotally that they were one of the inspirations for the scene in LOTR.

 

[professional hat on] I can tell you right now, they are not the inspiration for the Pilar of Kings/Argonath.  The Ushiaku Daibutsu in Japan was thought as a possible source of inspiration. [professional hat off]

Wouldn't the Rock Hall be considered iconic, especially since it is on the lake?

Wouldn't the Rock Hall be considered iconic, especially since it is on the lake?

 

To a degree, yet not on a level as the Terminal Tower/Tower City, the Westside Market, Grays Armory, the Bridges, etc.  Also there are various churches, parks, gardens, historic homes (the vans residence for instance), that I would categorize as "Iconic" in stature.

Wouldn't the Rock Hall be considered iconic, especially since it is on the lake?

 

I think so. It gets into more photographs, especially for national/international visitors than most other landmarks.

Wouldn't the Rock Hall be considered iconic, especially since it is on the lake?

 

I think so. It gets into more photographs, especially for national/international visitors than most other landmarks.

 

Also, if I am not mistaken the only similar design of that stature is the Louvre in Paris, which is surrounded by classical buildings and is not on a body of water.  It's globally distinctive, and it's very hard for detractors to credibily denigrate it when its abovementioned counterpart is considered.

This, turned into shadows, bright background lake a little darker.

 

Going back to this discussion.

 

OK.... With what?

The Main Ave Bridge is beyond the end of it's safe life.  I'd love to see it replaced with an iconic bridge.  The Veterans Memorial and Lorain Carnegie are both iconic to Clevelanders, but a bold new bridge for the new Shoreway Blvd could become something more notable worldwide.  Perhaps something like this in France (with a 35mph speedlimit and walk/bikeways on either side).

 

^Actually, I'd just as soon tear down the Main Ave bridge for good rather than replace it, esp with the boulevard-ing of the West Shoreway, its utility as an high-speed east-west connection has been supplanted by I-90, 490 and, (ugh) the coming OC.  But for Cleveland drivers convenience is paramount, so that probably won't happen.  As for making its replacement an icon, I think the single, mid-road suspension bridge style has played out or, at least, we've become over saturated with it.  Also, because the Main Ave squeezes between, and is close to several office and WHD buildings, a continuous suspension-type viaduct would be visually messy... I've actually come to like the more understated Inner Belt bridge over the Flats with the funky color lighting underneath.

^Actually, I'd just as soon tear down the Main Ave bridge for good rather than replace it, esp with the boulevard-ing of the West Shoreway, its utility as an high-speed east-west connection has been supplanted by I-90, 490 and, (ugh) the coming OC.  But for Cleveland drivers convenience is paramount, so that probably won't happen.  As for making its replacement an icon, I think the single, mid-road suspension bridge style has played out or, at least, we've become over saturated with it.  Also, because the Main Ave squeezes between, and is close to several office and WHD buildings, a continuous suspension-type viaduct would be visually messy... I've actually come to like the more understated Inner Belt bridge over the Flats with the funky color lighting underneath.

 

I really like the ambiance that the steel girders create. It's very "Cleveland."

 

However it would be irresponsible not to study tearing down the bridge. Replacing it with a drawbridge over the river would be interesting. I'd gladly take the convenience of an urban street grid replacement over the luxury of going 50mph over the bridge.

^I will say that vista of the Main Ave bridge over the Cuyahoga and Flats entertainment district has become iconic in itself, so that any different form of the bridge, or no bridge at all, would look weird.

A 750ft statue of Bob Hope astride the Cuyahoga River pointing to Hollywood would be iconic.

 

When we say 'iconic', we mean something that is instantly recognizable as "Cleveland" and that stands out in the skyline, like the Gateway Arch, Golden Gate Bridge, Statue of Liberty, etc, right? Almost no American cities have these iconic structures; Cleveland has neither the international name recognition nor an iconic structure that is "must-selfie". Hence...the Statue of Hope.

^I will say that vista of the Main Ave bridge over the Cuyahoga and Flats entertainment district has become iconic in itself, so that any different form of the bridge, or no bridge at all, would look weird.

 

Agree it would be weird, and I'd miss the views from up there. But I'd trade that bridge in a heartbeat for what used to be there.

The Gateway Arch is stupid, non-utilitarian and was a giant waste of money. No one cares about St. Louie.

 

 

 

I'm sure that has a nice view but it looks like a stupid waste of money unless all of the nearby terrain happens to be even more treacherous, but it doesn't look like it. That bridge is hideous. Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have the best bridges in the Midwest.

 

 

Tearing down the Main Ave Bridge would also affect the CSU BRT line which has just received a good amount of investment and has good ridership.

 

The Gateway Arch may be "non-utilitarian" but it an almost perfect example of what it is trying to be - A unique and instantly recognizable symbol of the city, with symbolism that almost everyone understands (the Gateway to the West). Not to mention architecturally/structurally interesting. It's an almost perfect example of what a monument is supposed to be.

Tearing down the Main Ave Bridge would also affect the CSU BRT line which has just received a good amount of investment and has good ridership.

 

The Gateway Arch may be "non-utilitarian" but it an almost perfect example of what it is trying to be - A unique and instantly recognizable symbol of the city, with symbolism that almost everyone understands (the Gateway to the West). Not to mention architecturally/structurally interesting. It's an almost perfect example of what a monument is supposed to be.

 

No loss to the CSU BRT line. It could easily be rerouted over the Detroit-Superior bridge and add a stop at the booming Hingetown neighborhood and a transfer point to buses heading south to the WSM, Tremont, zoo, Old Brooklyn, Parma, etc.

OK, I guess I was thinking that routing it through Ohio City would substantially increase the travel time out to Edgewater and Lakewood (the bread and butter of that route), but I guess going to Detroit and 25th and then getting right on the Shoreway wouldn't be too bad.

I know I joke a lot and I'm provocative but I want to be serious for a minute.

 

If there ever was or ever will be anything truly 'iconic' that sets Cleveland apart from other cities, it isn't any sort of grand structures (which it already has to a great degree.) It's the culture, the sense of pride, identity and community that extends far beyond neighborhood boundaries. It's the unbelievable amount of optimism here, even during hard times, in a city that by all rights should feel broken. Without optimism, cities struggle much harder to be resilient and that's why Cleveland increasingly cannot be compared to Detroit. Detroit has the Ren-Cen, Ambassador Bridge and numerous iconic monuments that truly do look glorious. Tell me though, what does it really do for them?

 

I helped paint a mural on an overpass at E.22nd and Cedar last night :) Not something I'm usually into but it was actually a lot of fun being a part of something that brings all these different people together. The mural was inspired by an open discussion addressing racial dividers in Cleveland, so if you happen to drive through there, take a really good gander at it.

 

All these people were driving by while we were painting, honking their horns and yelling, "BELIEVE!!" or "Paint Believe on there!" at us. Lol!

 

I found out about it through my girlfriend who is president of APA at CSU. She knows everybody. I got to meet the artist who designed it, the very awesome people at Campus District, planning students/APA members and just random people who heard about it and came to paint. IMO there's never anything that could be more iconic than things that people from all walks of life in the city come together to build. They said there's going to be more projects like that soon :)

 

I've lived here exactly 2 years now and I'm as much of an armchair architecture and urban design nerd as the next guy on here but I feel like Cleveland just isn't meant to be a flashy city. Deep down, I think you all know it. It certainly wouldn't reflect the character of the city or even Metro Cleveland as much as all of the community-building does.

 

Gimmicky iconic structures like the St. Louis Arch should be noted in planning books as gimmicks, a waste of money and past mistakes - like skywalks and urban renewal. I always say, it's better to capitalize on current strengths rather than obsess over improving weaknesses to compete with others. Anyone who has ever effectively managed a team, knows that to be true in business but I believe it's also true in city development. In the case of Cleveland (particularly with respect to its size,) I think it's the sense of community, pride, optimism, world-class institutions, history, cuisine and culture of its authentic neighborhoods and independent businesses that need to be built upon. Not an 'Old Faithful' in Lake Erie or a giant arch that serves no real use.

 

Sorry, I'll never start a blog; you're all just going to have to put up with my long rants.

KJP - The St. Louis Gateway Arch cost $180M in 2013 dollars. Hypothetically, how far do you think that kind of money could that go with expansion of rail service to bring new life, residents and tourists and general investment into real neighborhoods?

 

I bet the ROI overall would be much greater than anything the arch did for St. Louis.

I'm captivated by European and ancient Roman city planning, and many great and old cities of Europe have great monuments or structures which symbolize the city. Many were constructed for other purposes and then became symbols, such as the Roman Coliseum. Some, however, like Michelangelo's David in Florence, were built specifically to symbolize the city and succeeded beyond what they could have ever thought - it became a beloved symbol of the city when it was built at the peak of the Renaissance (originally it sat at the central square of the city), and it still is to this day.

 

Paris - Eiffel Tower. London - Tower Bridge. Prague has an old clock. Many places have giant cathedrals. Most of these things were built during periods of extreme prosperity, including the Gateway Arch which was built in booming postwar America. (1960s St. Louis isn't the same thing as 2017 Cleveland.)

 

The unfortunate thing is that modern American culture does not place much value on these things, just as it doesn't place much value on good urban design or community in the first place. So yeah, don't worry, I'm not suggesting Cleveland should spend $180 million on a monument... I don't think anybody is. I'm just saying that the Arch is a damn fine example of a monument or of public art (even if it was a bit extravagant), and that monuments, public art, and symbols do have their place.

The RRHOF is pretty frequently used to portray Cleveland.  Typically shot from the rear, where you can't hardly tell what it is, but that's the only angle where it can look like part of (I mean cover up half of) the skyline.

 

Personally I think we should have gone bigger with our Superman statue, and given it a better location.