ahh kewpee, the tastiest and most iconic restaurant in ohio. sorry tony packos, steves lunch, camp washington, etc. lol!

 

Yep, if you want great burgers just look for the naked, anatomically incorrect flipper baby statue and you know you've found 'em.  But seriously, if you're in Lima, you should get a Kewpee burger.  It is THE thing to do.

in lima?? if you are within a 100 mile radius of lima you should go get a kewpee burger...which i've done with great joy! damn tasty.

 

Decent pixs, ink--but where are the people?  :wtf:  (looks like a "neutron-bomb" detonated over the town, leaving only its structural remains)  :-(

^It's Lima. Its economy got decimated. See the documentary "Lost in Middle America," which sums up Rust Belt issues well, especially what has happened to the small, remote Rust Belt cities like Lima. Their economic battle is even bigger than in the declined shipping ports on the Great Lakes (Great Lakes cities always have some potential for recovery being on water). Lima suffers from not being big enough to retain young college grads, and its remote location in the middle of nowhere means few outsiders ever venture into the city. I don't think the situation is quite as grave as Youngstown, but there are some similarities. Lima also lacks a corporate presence to offer those entry level jobs to graduates. It's a really sad economic situation there, even worse than in Toledo or Dayton since both of those cities still have some corporate HQ's and much larger "big city" downtowns. The brain drain is huge in Lima. I think most end up in Columbus (Lima has a branch OSU campus which is probably a ticket out for kids). It is an isolated, depressing town, and I sense most people are desperate to get out. I had some friends who worked there, and they thanked their lucky stars when they got jobs up in Toledo. Coming from Toledo, I didn't quite understand it (Toledo's economy was terrible), but it's true Toledo has a lot more economic opportunity with OC, OI, Libbey, Jeep, Andersons, Dana, mid-sized media market, etc. It also has way more going on culturally speaking and nightlife wise.

 

With all this said, these pics of Lima actually look better than what I remember from my last visit in 2006. Some buildings look renovated and Lima Square still looks mostly intact. There is potential for Lima to be a hub for West-Central Ohio similar to how Jackson, Michigan operates in the Irish Hills region west of Ann Arbor. Jackson is the model for redevelopment here. It is similar in size to Lima, but has a more lively downtown with lofts, bars, etc., and also a few well-restored Victorian districts within walking distance, not to mention a healthy Amtrak station.

 

I don't think Lima is completely lost yet (these pictures really do look better than expected in 2014), but it's going to take some real miracles for it to ever recover. Many years ago when I was a kid, we called it "Compton in a Cornfield." It was always on Toledo news for some ridiculous violent crime or drug bust (I-75 funnels a lot of drugs through Ohio, with Lima being a major distribution point).

 

To really break it down in a brutal way:

Bachelor's degree or higher, percent of persons age 25+, 2008-2012

 

Lima: 10.1%

Youngstown: 10.9%

Lorain: 11.4%

Sandusky: 12.9%

Cleveland: 14.0%

Dayton: 15.7%

Toledo: 17.1%

Akron: 20.0%

Ohio average: 24.7%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/3943554.html

 

Lima's education numbers are dire, even by Ohio Rust Belt standards. It is failing to retain young, educated people to a dramatic degree. I can't say I blame them...if you're not a nurse or inheriting a business from family, you're probably screwed...

That's funny you said that Cdawg.  I know two people that live in Lima.  One took over a family business, and the other's a nurse. 

Looks like every other building has been EIFS'd  :|

I've been doing some work in Lima, and I'm fascinated by the place. All of the negative comments here are correct -- yet at the same time there are some interesting things going on and some smart, committed people. There's even a hint of a young-professionals movement! I'm working on a local-regional food plan for Lima/Allen County. The regional planning director, a county commissioner, the head of OSU Lima, and the head of the YMCA are some of the key players. But there are several twentysomethings on the staff of Activate Allen County, as well as young volunteers, who are hugely important contributors. They're looking at food access and health/nutrition for a substantial population in need, but are equally focused on local food as economic development. There are definitely comparisons to be made with Youngstown -- where I've also done some collaboration with people in a very-active local-food movement.

I would have to disagree that there are comparisons to be made with Youngstown.  The greater Youngstown area saw much more explosive growth during it's heyday in different industries then Lima.  Youngstown grew to be a larger town, with a larger metro (Austitown, Boardman, Canfield, Warren, Struthers, Lordstown etc.).  Not saying Youngstown is nicer then Lima, but it has a much larger feel, and deeper history.  I would compare Lima to Mansfield, or Stuebenville. 

That's funny you said that Cdawg.  I know two people that live in Lima.  One took over a family business, and the other's a nurse. 

 

I grew up in Delphos, which is about 15 miles Northwest of Lima and this is absolutely true.  The only people I know that stayed in the area are nurses, teachers, or in a family business (mostly farming).  Most people that go away to college have no expectation of ever returning.  It's sad too, because there are some good communities in that part of the state.

Lima really ought to be the "capital" of West Central Ohio -- a dominant city, an economic driver (building on the agricultural economy in addition to its industrial heritage), and even a cultural leader. It's obviously a long, long way from this, but it has the potential and it needs leadership to push a goal like that.

Another interesting Lima tidbit: Those delectable Kewpee burgers are local food -- locally sourced beef, as well as the toppings, when available.

Lima really ought to be the "capital" of West Central Ohio -- a dominant city, an economic driver (building on the agricultural economy in addition to its industrial heritage), and even a cultural leader. It's obviously a long, long way from this, but it has the potential and it needs leadership to push a goal like that.

 

Agreed.  It could takes notes from a Davenport or something.

Terrific photos as always.  It's been several years since I was in Lima and I think your pictures summed up the town perfectly.  Find somewhere else to be (the locals seem to have figured it out).  Although there are still several industries with decent enough paying jobs like P&G, Ford, BP and JSMC (Army tank plant) in the area,  I don't think that any of those places are located in the city limits so no tax $$ for Lima.  Also, something astounding must have happened in Jackson.  I believe I was last there in 2010 and all I could think of was how much it made me want to be in Lima.

Looking back over Jackson photos in my archives, it does appear 2010 was the turning point, with significant changes seen by 2011. I traveled to Jackson regularly from my childhood until 2011. I saw some positive changes over those two decades. Jackson, Michigan is lucky for a city that size since it has a great Amtrak station on the Chicago-Detroit line and also a corporate presence with CMS Energy. It also has a symphony orchestra, which is nuts for a city that size (a bigger city like Columbus, Ohio lost its symphony before). Those institutions are the key differences.

 

Geographically, Jackson is much prettier than Lima. Jackson is surrounded by dense forests and tons of natural glacial lakes in the Irish Hills region of Michigan. This has allowed it to spinoff some of that tourism traffic. Many people from Ann Arbor and Toledo have cottages in the Irish Hills. It also pulls some of the Lake Michigan tourism traffic driving from Toledo and Detroit. That's millions of people a year. Sure, they may only be grabbing lunch or dinner, but every little bit helps.

 

Lima's situation is more dire than Jackson because of its location and total lack of regional tourism. Not to mention it doesn't have a a major company like CMS.

 

To put it in perspective, nearby Findlay has a Fortune 500 company (Marathon Oil). Metro Toledo still has four Fortune 500 companies (Owens Corning, Owens-Illinois, Andersons, Dana). I believe Dayton has a Fortune 500 left too, no? And in Toledo and Dayton, you've got those big healthcare HQ's like Promedica and Caresource. Kids love healthcare jobs since they're such great careers. Toledo also still has some major private HQ's and North American regional HQ's (Libbey, Manor Care, Jeep, Pilkington). Come to think of it, it's obvious why those Lima friends tried to get jobs up there.

 

Lima has no corporate anchor left.  I bet Jackson thanks its lucky stars it retained CMS Energy, and downtown.

 

What Lima needs is to poach a company from another city (preferably not in Ohio). I don't see its potential for being a start-up hub...

 

The real kick in the nuts is that Lima, despite its locomotive heritage, has no passenger rail. Thank you, Ohio. It's going to remain car-dependent, and it is a substantial drive to larger cities like Toledo, Fort Wayne, and Dayton. Had it been built 40 or 50 miles closer to one of those regional anchor cities, its prospects for recovery would be better...

 

We're moving to a world where talent and money is concentrating more and more in big cities. It's hard enough for mid-size Rust Belt cities. Once you get down to Lima's size, it's almost impossible to land companies and retain talent.

 

When cities like Jackson or Findlay have Fortune 500 companies, it makes a huge difference.

*I like the Davenport example too. That city is shockingly nice considering its size and location. I like it more than much larger Des Moines.

 

For some reason, Iowa just didn't get as ghetto as other Midwestern states. It's an ugly state, but its economy seems to have fared well. That kind of throws a wrench in the whole "we're not on the coast" thing. Omaha and Lincoln throw wrenches in there too...and Nebraska is even uglier than Iowa...

 

Lima is in an ugly area, but no worse than any city in Iowa or Nebraska.

 

Does it have the potential of a Sandusky or Port Huron? No. It just doesn't have an awesome location like those smaller Great Lakes ports (which can be world class tourism hubs as proven by Traverse City, Grand Haven, and Marquette). If Lake Erie is cleaned up, I have no doubt Sandusky will be the Rust Belt city on the list I posted that will come back the strongest. Lorain? It will be a struggle since it's less intact, but it has good chances too. It's true Lima does not have anywhere near the potential of a city like Sandusky given differences in location and tourism traffic. Sandusky is like a couple of the nicest, most intact neighborhoods in Toledo or Cleveland with even better access to water. It's pure Great Lakes, and around 7 million people are in the area every summer between the Lake Erie Islands, Marblehead/Lakeside, and Cedar Point. That's captive audience. Lima unfortunately has no captive audience. It's a drive-through city with nothing around it. This isolation has always been its biggest problem IMO. The examples people used with Mansfield and Steuebenville suffer from similar isolation. The reason a similar city like Hamilton is so much nicer is due to it being near Cincinnati.

 

Does Lima have the potential of a Davenport? Perhaps. Davenport does have the Mississippi, but it's not really that beautiful of a river there, and Davenport's downtown seems on scale with Lima. Of course Davenport is more intact, but the urban cores are not far off and they're both inland cities. Davenport also has that general Midwest agricultural feel going on too. Its culture is probably pretty similar to Lima.

 

*Still, that riverfront in Davenport is an asset and major selling point. The downtown is built right on it.

 

**I believe it has some major agricultural industry too. Isn't John Deere from there? That's probably the major anchor company for the region...

Having driven through both Nebraska and Iowa on a road trip heading west to east to visit Lincoln, Omaha, Des Moines and Dubuque, I disagree that they are ugly states.  Nebraska is fine, but I was impressed by Iowa.  I was expecting Kansas flat and what I got were gently rolling meadows and hills.  It was the middle of summer and everything was very green.  It was beautiful.  Omaha was a cool city and Des Moines had it's moments. 

^Agreed.  Iowa and Nebraska are not ugly by any means.

 

I'm talking in comparison to Pacific Coast, Great Lakes, New England, and Rocky Mountain states. Iowa has its areas, but much of Nebraska is too barren. There are not many trees west of Lincoln. It turns into that "Great Plains Nothingness."

 

Iowa has a lot of barren areas too, but the forests it does have are pretty (good color). I remember those rolling hills, but I prefer mountains, beaches, and coastal cliffs. I like to be on water, so I would not want to live in Iowa or Nebraska. It's just a personal preference thing.

 

Overall, I think Ohio is prettier. I wouldn't call Ohio one of the most beautiful states, but with Lake Erie, Hocking Hills, and the heavily forested Appalachian foothills, it has more stuff to work with. For some reason it feels more livable to me (certainly feels much more connected to the rest of the country). It's only in places like Lima that you feel "cut off." West-Central Ohio is a weird place, and has a culture that's unique in Ohio (maybe more like inland Indiana and Illinois). Whatever Lima is, it's not "normal," however people define that in Ohio.

 

*I've seen great landscape photography work in both Iowa and Nebraska, but having spent time in different cities in those states, I don't think any of them are knockouts. I think Toledo is quite a bit more beautiful than Omaha or Des Moines as long as there's not toxic algae on the water (plus being a major Great Lakes shipping port makes it more interesting with all the diversity and industry). The one city I think stands out in Iowa is Davenport. That is clearly different from the other cities in the state, and I really liked how their downtown interacted with the river. Admittedly, I haven't been to Iowa City, which I've heard is a good party town...

 

I will say though that people seem pretty damn nice in those two states. And no doubt their economies are booming.

 

Whatever secret they have could be a lessen for cities like Lima struggling to survive. Geographically, I see some similarities, and Lima's culture feels rural, inland Midwest. Lima has more in common with some of those cities in Iowa and Nebraska than it does with Great Lakes cities or Ohio Valley cities.

 

I think Lima's model will be found outside of Ohio...and not just because nearly all of the other small Ohio cities are struggling too. It goes beyond that.

^I agree with many of your points. I definitely prefer Ohio and think it is prettier than Iowa because there is more geographic diversity. I was just surprised that I liked Iowa as much as I did because it wasn't what my preconceived notion was. For sure I agree with that sense of isolation you mentioned in Iowa and Nebraska. One of the great things about Ohio is the proximity to so many other cities and states and geographic diversity.  I like Denver a lot, as an example, but could never live there cause it's the only city of any size for 500 miles!

The real kick in the nuts is that Lima, despite its locomotive heritage, has no passenger rail. Thank you, Ohio. It's going to remain car-dependent, and it is a substantial drive to larger cities like Toledo, Fort Wayne, and Dayton. Had it been built 40 or 50 miles closer to one of those regional anchor cities, its prospects for recovery would be better...

 

 

Lima's mayor, David Berger, is a huge Amtrak advocate. He and civic leaders in Columbus, Fort Wayne and other cities are pressing for Columbus-to-Chicago rail and funding studies.

Apparently Rhodes State was just awarded funds to construct a health sciences building in Downtown Lima on the square (http://limaohio.com/news/news/50221725/Rhodes-State-receives-$5M-for-downtown-facility). Good news about another anchor downtown, but I hope they do a good job intergrating the building into the street/cityscape and I worry that they are already talking about demolition.

 

The real kick in the nuts is that Lima, despite its locomotive heritage, has no passenger rail. Thank you, Ohio. It's going to remain car-dependent, and it is a substantial drive to larger cities like Toledo, Fort Wayne, and Dayton. Had it been built 40 or 50 miles closer to one of those regional anchor cities, its prospects for recovery would be better...

 

 

Lima's mayor, David Berger, is a huge Amtrak advocate. He and civic leaders in Columbus, Fort Wayne and other cities are pressing for Columbus-to-Chicago rail and funding studies.

 

Um yeah. Good luck with that. FitzGerald's implosion has all but doomed Ohio to another four years of an ignorantly pro-sprawl, anti-rail governor in Kasich. It'll be at least that much longer before Lima sees this kind of a lifeline, and what may be its best hope for even a modest revival. This state's government and politics does little to serve and support its legacy cities.

^Yeah, Kasich is going to win in a landslide. He's kind of the Republican dream in Ohio (very anti-regulation). I don't see how he can lose, plus Ohio is arguably doing better than back in 2010. From what I've read, the state's decline seems to have somewhat leveled off under his watch, which will certainly help his chances at the polls. He's got a lot of friends in big media too. I remember that "No choo-choo train" stuff back in 2010, and sadly, it sold. Few media outlets questioned him on the speed thing (though I remember bringing it up in my newsroom). He's really anti-transit, and somehow voters didn't seem to care. His anti-rail stances ended up being a non-issue in the election.

 

I think it's awesome that Lima officials are pushing to get Amtrak again (go Dave Berger!), but I'm with you that it's a longshot. I hope I'm proven wrong, and proven wrong with Ohio's anti-rail stances in general. The state needs to get with the times. High-speed rail would be perfect for the Chicago-New York line that hits the stations in Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, and Cleveland.

 

Columbus also desperately needs to get back on the system, as should Dayton, Akron, Lima, etc.

I think it's awesome that Lima officials are pushing to get Amtrak again (go Dave Berger!), but I'm with you that it's a longshot. I hope I'm proven wrong, and proven wrong with Ohio's anti-rail stances in general. The state needs to get with the times. High-speed rail would be perfect for the Chicago-New York line that hits the stations in Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, and Cleveland.

 

Columbus also desperately needs to get back on the system, as should Dayton, Akron, Lima, etc.

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29489.0.html#ixzz3C3Tmi7Mt

 

Columbus also desperately needs to get back on the system, as should Dayton, Akron, Lima, etc.

 

I totally agree. Just about all of the cities you name, along with Lima, are literally dying for passenger rail and would benefit from it greatly, as would also be the case for the cities linked to them (new markets, travel destinations, etc.). Even Columbus, because I'm sure it's been said elsewhere on UrbanOhio that Columbus is probably the largest city in North America with no passenger rail service, period. Its leaders and the state govt. should be VERY embarrassed about this fact, but with the possible exception of Mayor Coleman, no one seems to see this as a concern and is willing to act on it. Kasich as Governor comes off as having the attitude that cars and highways are all he needs to get around, so they should be good for everyone else, too. So let's just add another lane to I-71 and I-75. :roll: It's an incredibly shortsighted and let's just say stupid way of governing.

 

It's a bit disheartening to think that our best shot at this may be generational turnover during the next 10-15 years. The ideology and "culture war" fighting Baby Boomers like Kasich, but also people like the Clintons and Bushes, have been utterly obsessed with things like religion, gay marriage and abortion to the detriment of planning and infrastructure. Maybe when they are finally pushed aside by the Gen-Xers/Yers/Millennials that are more concerned with practical matters, we'll finally see more of the wholesale changes happen that we have been waiting on for so long.

Haha, it's true.  Our parents hate us.  They're trying to milk the Earth for everything its worth before handing the reigns over.  I'm just curious to see what the Millennial Rush Limbaugh will sound like. 

 

Even Columbus, because I'm sure it's been said elsewhere on UrbanOhio that Columbus is probably the largest city in North America with no passenger rail service, period.

 

That would be Phoenix.

 

Even Columbus, because I'm sure it's been said elsewhere on UrbanOhio that Columbus is probably the largest city in North America with no passenger rail service, period.

 

That would be Phoenix.

 

 

I would say that Phoenix is served by inter-city rail (Maricopa is to Phoenix as, say, Delaware is to Columbus). Phoenix also has light rail. Columbus has nothing.

Well, I meant literally.  Phoenix city isn't served by passenger rail (you are correct; Maricopa is in the metro).  But agreed, Columbus has no rail except for at the zoo!