Cleveland Indians strike $435 million public-private deal for Progressive Field renovation, 15-year lease extension

Courtney Astolfi - Cleveland.com -  Aug. 5, 2021 

 

 

"The Cleveland Indians have struck a proposed $435 million deal with the city of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and the state of Ohio to renovate Progressive Field and extend the team’s lease in Cleveland for at least 15 years. ... Over the life of the 15-year deal, the city would pay roughly $117 million, the county would pay about $138 million, the state would pay $30 million, and the team would pay $150 million, according to documents obtained by The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com. ... The 15-year lease includes the option for an additional 10-year extension, keeping the team in Cleveland through 2036, and possibly through 2046."

Guess the Las Vegas Guardians will have to wait another generation😜

 

It's unfortunate that the city/county, especially one with so many challenges, has to put up any money to bribe a team to stay... but if you look at that ridiculous proposal in Buffalo, I suppose it could be worse.

1 hour ago, NorthShore647 said:

Cleveland Indians strike $435 million public-private deal for Progressive Field renovation, 15-year lease extension

Courtney Astolfi - Cleveland.com -  Aug. 5, 2021 

 

 

“The ballpark, according to a news release, is projected to generate $3.22 billion in visitor spending over the next 15 years, and $21 million annually in state and local taxes. It draws an average of 1.7 million people to downtown Cleveland each year.”
 

I wish this type of analysis was more heavily factored in by public officials for public  transportation projects. 

 

With the amount of the old generation and people refusing to watch the Guardians/Indians now that the name has been changed and the lack of attendance before that, I am thankful that we are able to keep the team.  The public investment is a little high but worth it considering all that it does for the city and downtown.

29 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

With the amount of the old generation and people refusing to watch the Guardians/Indians now that the name has been changed and the lack of attendance before that, I am thankful that we are able to keep the team.  The public investment is a little high but worth it considering all that it does for the city and downtown.

And one World Series win will make all the whiners forget the Indians name.   Let's hope its against a team who's fans haven't had a 100 year drought like the Cubs.... 

 

Yeah, the Guardians fan in me is happy, and I think it's justifiable as as public amenity spending, but I'm not under any illusions this is really an "investment" or meaningful economic development. 

29 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

Yeah, the Guardians fan in me is happy, and I think it's justifiable as as public amenity spending, but I'm not under any illusions this is really an "investment" or meaningful economic development. 

 

It'd bug me less if that's how they framed the spending, instead of wrapping it in half-truths about "economic impact". One second looking at the neighborhoods around all 3 stadiums shows how terrible these are for economic development.

1 hour ago, Mendo said:

 

It'd bug me less if that's how they framed the spending, instead of wrapping it in half-truths about "economic impact". One second looking at the neighborhoods around all 3 stadiums shows how terrible these are for economic development.

Overall I agree with this sentiment; that said, I think it is fair to evaluate the three facilities differently. Arena > baseball stadium > football stadium in order of positive impact. (Ironically the opposite of the cost order.) I think that the Gateway projects had a substantial contribution to the recovery of downtown Cleveland. I don’t think there would be anywhere near as many restaurants and bars without those facilities, and without the former, it seems unlikely that nearly as many people would have moved downtown. 
 

(To be clear, I don’t like funding sports facilities with tax dollars, but I also don’t want to lose any of these teams.)

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

To be clear I don’t think it has an economic impact on our region but I do think it greatly helps the downtown to feel vibrant and full of life. A night with a sports game and a night without one is obviously totally different not just with street traffic but with foot, restaurant traffic, and transit as well. One of my favorite memories from when I was young was going with my grandpa, dad, and brothers on the rapid from shaker heights to tower city to watch the Indians game. 

1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said:

To be clear I don’t think it has an economic impact on our region but I do think it greatly helps the downtown to feel vibrant and full of life. A night with a sports game and a night without one is obviously totally different not just with street traffic but with foot, restaurant traffic, and transit as well. One of my favorite memories from when I was young was going with my grandpa, dad, and brothers on the rapid from shaker heights to tower city to watch the Indians game. 

 

I agree, and I grew up the same way - all my downtown experiences related to going to Indians games as a kid. No economic impact on the region, and the sports teams are absolutely taking advantage of the local governments and taxpayers all over the country, but there's definitely an impact. And if I worked at City Hall in 1990 and was trying to reinvigorate Downtown, sports stadiums were and are the obvious answer, and it worked. 

I hope the capital improvements include fixing that mess in the right field upper deck.  The news reports say they will fix upper deck concourses but I don't know if such work relates to right field since the problems are in the stands not the concourse.

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

I hope the capital improvements include fixing that mess in the right field upper deck.  The news reports say they will fix upper deck concourses but I don't know if such work relates to right field since the problems are in the stands not the concourse.

I think there is an impact. You probably have about 100,000 out of town fans come into town every year to watch their team play. Low-ball they spend 500 dollars on average in the city. That's alot of money. Not even counting out of the county fans who show up and spend obviously less money. 

“The Indians, according to owner Paul Dolan, never asked for a new ballpark during negotiations with the city and county. Instead, the club's requests, at least early in a process that still requires government approvals, are focused on five key areas of Progressive Field.”

https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-business/look-indians-early-renovation-plans-progressive-field?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=crain's+cleveland+business&utm_content=dcd67712-5276-4d74-9f65-dea1298a0c52

$435 million for a renovation????

 

 

 

the first concept pic looks awful.  Does that mean they would redo the entire outer skin (which I like).  I would think they would have to or this thing would stick out like a wart.  I do like the upper deck idea.

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

$435 million for a renovation????

 

Hey I saw a concession stand sign that looked too early-2000s at Nationwide Arena a couple years back and said to my buddies while pointing at it, "Just tear the whole thing down"

 

If something's not hipster-lite these days it doesn't deserve to survive

Edited August 6, 20213 yr by GCrites80s

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

$435 million for a renovation????

Clearly you haven't been to Home Depot or Lowes in the last 12 months.... 😜

Now we are changing the stadium too?  Maybe they are paying for it with all of the new ****dians gear people will have to buy now?

14 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I think there is an impact. You probably have about 100,000 out of town fans come into town every year to watch their team play. Low-ball they spend 500 dollars on average in the city. That's alot of money. Not even counting out of the county fans who show up and spend obviously less money. 

 

Yeah, it's just not a good return for the amount of money they have to put into it. Compared to other options like subsidizing factories or apartments or restaurants, etc.

14 hours ago, bumsquare said:

$435 million for a renovation????

 

That's the total expense including financing over 15 years.  I believe the improvement package (excluding capital repairs) is projected at ~$200 million.  But I do not think that's been communicated very well, so I could be wrong.  

1 hour ago, mu2010 said:

 

Yeah, it's just not a good return for the amount of money they have to put into it. Compared to other options like subsidizing factories or apartments or restaurants, etc.

Idk. 390 million in pure dollars spent in the region after accounting for tax subsidies provided to the Indians seems like a decent return to me. That's a low-ball estimate anyhow. 

On 8/5/2021 at 10:39 AM, NorthShore647 said:

Cleveland Indians strike $435 million public-private deal for Progressive Field renovation, 15-year lease extension

Courtney Astolfi - Cleveland.com -  Aug. 5, 2021 

 

 

"The Cleveland Indians have struck a proposed $435 million deal with the city of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and the state of Ohio to renovate Progressive Field and extend the team’s lease in Cleveland for at least 15 years. ... Over the life of the 15-year deal, the city would pay roughly $117 million, the county would pay about $138 million, the state would pay $30 million, and the team would pay $150 million, according to documents obtained by The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com. ... The 15-year lease includes the option for an additional 10-year extension, keeping the team in Cleveland through 2036, and possibly through 2046."

 

Why is the state paying $30M? How do I as a taxpayer, 150 miles away stand to benefit from this? I don't even watch Guardians games. Why can't it come from the billionaire who owns the team? Is he broke? I'll be expecting my royalty and residual checks in the mail from all the ticket sales, merch and ESPN broadcasts. Thanks.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

On 8/6/2021 at 11:29 AM, grayfields said:

 

That's the total expense including financing over 15 years.  I believe the improvement package (excluding capital repairs) is projected at ~$200 million.  But I do not think that's been communicated very well, so I could be wrong.  

Yeah, that seems like a ridiculous price tag. Smells like corruption. Who is renovating it? Forest City Enterprises? They could have gotten an entirely new ballpark for that price. 

Edit: GIS Guy and whoever else 'thumbs downs' my comments... Great American Ballpark costed $290M and it was a brand new, beautiful stadium. The more you guys @sshole-kiss your local leadership by defending them and staying in denial, the worse your problems are going to get.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

13 minutes ago, David said:

 

Why is the state paying $30M? How do I as a taxpayer, 150 miles away stand to benefit from this? 

 

I'm not one to defend billionaires, however organizational staff and players pay taxes, own property, and fans contribute to the state's economy. By this same libertarian-esque thinking, my tax dollars in Cuyahoga shouldn't go towards anywhere but Cuyahoga- no state funding for roads I don't drive on, no state funding for Ohio State football that I don't care about, no tax breaks for companies that I don't know or care about, etc.

 

Look, I think it's dumb and unnecessary to give sports owners a dime of public funds but this argument doesn't check out.

 

14 minutes ago, David said:

Yeah, that seems like a ridiculous price tag. Smells like corruption. Who is renovating it? Forest City Enterprises? They could have gotten an entirely new ballpark for that price. 

Disingenuous.

 

Here's a study from 2009 (prices obviously not accounting for inflation):

 

Additionally, the most recent new stadium costs (from Wiki, inflation adjusted in parenthesis):

 

2020 - Globe Life Field, Houston - $1.1B

2017 - Truist Park, Atlanta - $622M ($689M)

2012 - LoanDepot Park, Miami - $634M ($750M)

2010 - Target Field, Minneapolis (most likely closest to Cleveland) - $555M ($691M)

2009 - Citi Field, Queens - $900M ($1.1B)

They're all a terrible investment! Look at the surrounding areas of a lot of these Ballparks. It doesn't even matter what they spent on new Ballparks, it doesn't mean the city or Ohio made money off of it. At least I get to use the roads that are built with Ohio funding.. don't use that comparison. I'm likely to never step foot inside Progressive Field. 

I'm tired of team owners threatening to move to another city if taxpayers don't foot the bill for a new stadium. It's all based on ego. If you want to go to another city, go ahead. I'm not compromising my morals. I have no qualms about paying taxes if I know it's going toward the right things. These billionaires buy teams for fun and expect people like you and me to foot the bill... Screw that.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

How much money is generated into Ohio's and Cleveland's economy after this renovation? What's the ROI? Lets see the numbers and how they came up with these numbers. I remember going to Atlanta in 2005. 6 years after they built the new Atlanta Braves Ballpark. The neighborhood which it was in, was an absolute sh*thole. Half of the houses were abandoned. Trees growing out of the center of the houses and deer up against the house, eating the Eucalyptus leaves smothering the houses. I'm sure it still is that way.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

I believe the ROI is about $0 minus $285 million dollars. Quite the deal.

Wait and see what they plan to build around the ballpark first and how they plan to capture the value from it. You're only getting part of the story right now. As I've written before, MLB wants teams to get more involved in development around their ballparks and use them as ballpark financing tools. San Diego and St. Louis are often cited by MLB as the models of what they want to see happen in more cities....

 

https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/

http://www.welcometosandiego.com/2017/08/san-diegos-ballpark-village-just-around-the-corner-to-completion/

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by KJP
Added correct link

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

Wait and see what they plan to build around the ballpark first and how they plan to capture the value from it. You're only getting part of the story right now. As I've written before, MLB wants teams to get more involved in development around their ballparks and use them as ballpark financing tools. San Diego and St. Louis are often cited by MLB as the models of what they want to see happen in more cities....

 

https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/

https://www.jmirealty.com/ballpark-village

I've seen countless examples in other major cities and so has everyone else. I don't know why people are still falling for this. Me and UncleRando talked about this over a decade ago and what a travesty it is. Stadiums do not provide a ROI. There were studies back then, proving that and I highly doubt there are recent studies proving otherwise but I FOR SURE welcome them. I don't mind paying taxes but I want them to go to good things.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

Not all cities and ownerships are developing the stadiums and their surrounding areas the same way or as they had. The team has to have a motivated ownership to pursue developments beyond the stadium along with a supportive city to create the necessary value capture mechanism. Some teams and cities have these. Others don't. St. Louis and San Diego have them. MLB wants more teams and cities to adopt this approach, so even current studies from MLB cities aren't valid, let alone those from a decade ago. If teams want to develop the areas around their stadiums and capture the increased taxes that result from them to finance their stadiums, then I think it's worth hearing more about it rather than automatically dismissing it based on past business practices.

You need stadiums to have teams. Teams without stadiums move to where there are stadiums. 

18 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

You need stadiums to have teams. Teams without stadiums move to where there are stadiums. 

Why didn't the guy who owns the team and is worth $4 billion dollars think about that when he bought the team? Why is that not HIS problem? Why does everyone on here defend billionaires? Why should I pay taxes on a stadium 150 miles away? You guys are just arguing against me for the sake of defending Cleveland. It's really stupid. Where is the cost/benefit analysis on this stadium showing that it's worth it to pay it? I wouldn't give a sh!t except that I pay a LOT of money in taxes and I'm not happy that I'm paying for a stadium in a city 150 miles away that I will never go to. 

Where is the cost/benefit analysis?

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

You don't need cost-benefit analysis in Cleveland. Your pride is apparently enough. 

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

^The benefit you're missing is that people like MLB baseball and are willing to hold their nose and pay the billionaire's bill for the certainty that it stays in town.  It's unjust and horrible, but this is just amenity spending, like paying for parks. People like having a home town team.  The "economic development" stuff is just face-saving BS. 

 

As for why you should have to pay for it? You probably shouldn't. Would be much more sensible to have a multi-county financing authority so that all of Northeast OH pays for it.  But get real, this is a state where the metro areas just spent hundreds of millions a few years ago or a moronic bypass around Portsmouth. The state budget is full of capital spending that benefits individual areas. 

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by StapHanger

I'm not happy I give tax breaks to those making more than me and get no benefit from it, I'm not happy I give tax breaks to developments I'll never step in, I'm not happy the highest paid employee in the state is the Ohio State football coach (second: Cinci coach, third: Toledo coach), convention centers have low/negative ROI yet I'm subsidizing CBUS' expansion, Cinci's, and others I'll never step in, and my list of theoretical grievances through your lens goes on. 

 

Through this lens, why should any of my state tax dollars go anywhere but where I spent them and why should they go towards anything other than what I consume/value? 

 

Nobody is defending the ownership group or billionaires, just poking at your argument.

 

To be completely clear, I think it's stupid to give billionaire owners (or any billionaires for that matter) a dime in public funding.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by GISguy

14 minutes ago, David said:

Why didn't the guy who owns the team and is worth $4 billion dollars think about that when he bought the team? Why is that not HIS problem? Why does everyone on here defend billionaires? Why should I pay taxes on a stadium 150 miles away? You guys are just arguing against me for the sake of defending Cleveland. It's really stupid. Where is the cost/benefit analysis on this stadium showing that it's worth it to pay it? I wouldn't give a sh!t except that I pay a LOT of money in taxes and I'm not happy that I'm paying for a stadium in a city 150 miles away that I will never go to. 

Where is the cost/benefit analysis?

 

There is no cost-benefit analysis on an approach that has no history. I guess you're going to have to do the unthinkable -- have an open mind to see if this works or not.

1 hour ago, David said:

Why didn't the guy who owns the team and is worth $4 billion dollars think about that when he bought the team? Why is that not HIS problem? Why does everyone on here defend billionaires? Why should I pay taxes on a stadium 150 miles away? You guys are just arguing against me for the sake of defending Cleveland. It's really stupid. Where is the cost/benefit analysis on this stadium showing that it's worth it to pay it? I wouldn't give a sh!t except that I pay a LOT of money in taxes and I'm not happy that I'm paying for a stadium in a city 150 miles away that I will never go to. 

Where is the cost/benefit analysis?

Keep tilting at windmills, bro. All you is complain on here. You can find hundreds of things all over the state that are funded with state tax dollars that don't directly benefit you. I suggest you make a detailed list of them, then rank by the level of hatred they inspire in you, and read it to yourself at night to help you go to sleep.

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by Ineffable_Matt

No, you so called Clevelanders are delusional. Could have easily gotten a renovation job for less than half the price. You're spending almost half a billion dollars for changes that hardly anyone will notice and my taxes are going towards it. Now I'm going to have to go to an Indians game just to enjoy the fruits of my labor. 

^ See, the renovations are already starting to pay for themselves.

7 minutes ago, David said:

No, you so called Clevelanders are delusional. Could have easily gotten a renovation job for less than half the price. You're spending almost half a billion dollars for changes that hardly anyone will notice and my taxes are going towards it. Now I'm going to have to go to an Indians game just to enjoy the fruits of my labor. 

Get over yourself.

I was kidding. If you all weren't so passive and put up a fight like Cincinnati citizens did, you could have gotten a brand new stadium for much cheaper but you guys don't do that. It's all "Rah! Cleveland Yay!" We're the best and will always be the best!" Here you guys are, paying almost half a billion dollars just for renovations. Makes me sick that my tax dollars so far away have to pay for that bullsh*t when you brainwashed Clevelanders are too scared to fight against nonsense. You guys need to just start your own country. Go do that Connecticut Western Reserve bullsh*t. It'll save the rest of us a lot of tax money. 

 

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by David

So Ohio is sending $30 million to this 15 year deal, which means each Ohioan will spend about $0.16/year?

 

I would pay that simply to not hear complaints about losing the team to another city. 

Edited August 9, 20213 yr by westerninterloper

23 minutes ago, David said:

I was kidding. If you all weren't so passive and put up a fight like Cincinnati citizens did, you could have gotten a brand new stadium for much cheaper but you guys don't do that. It's all "Rah! Cleveland Yay!" We're the best and will always be the best!" Here you guys are, paying almost half a billion dollars just for renovations. Makes me sick that my tax dollars so far away have to pay for that bullsh*t when you brainwashed Clevelanders are too scared to fight against nonsense. You guys need to just start your own country. Go do that Connecticut Western Reserve bullsh*t. It'll save the rest of us a lot of tax money. 

 

Just stop. 

7 minutes ago, westerninterloper said:

So Ohio is sending $30 million to this 15 year deal, which means each Ohioan will spend about $0.16/year?

 

I would pay that simply to not hear complaints about losing the team to another city. 

 

Truthpaste.

2 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Just stop. 

I don't think I will. I can take it a step further if you provoke me.

Scoreboard sign will be up for review this week. Looking pretty much the same with the new Guardians name. Kind of underwhelming. 

Btw I have always hated the size and placement of the scoreboard. I wish with the new renovations it could be downsized and placed more toward Center field. Positioned behind the bullpen at about the same level but smaller.  That way we could open up views to the city and all the new development in the coming years.

It would probably be a distraction for hitters if they moved it towards center field.

Both City Council Planning (last week) and Finance (yesterday) committees have approved the Progressive Field renovation legislation and it is up for final vote before the full council next Monday.  Lots of the usual blah, blah, blah during the hearings.  One of these day somebody is going to come up with something new and interesting, both pro and con, when debating these types of issues.  Oh well I guess a record has to be made.   The Cuyahoga County Council has already passed companion legislation for its share.  Sounds like some of the renovations may start as soon as early next year although apparently many of the larger fixes are still in the conceptual/development phase.