December 10, 20204 yr There's actually four variations of nuCLEus. Here are all four of them, presented in chronological order from 2014 to today from as close to the same angle as I can, using the renderings in my files.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 10, 20204 yr Personally, I still like the original Jenga tower, not just because it is the tallest, but because it is the most unique. Cleveland has such boring derivative architecture.
December 10, 20204 yr 17 minutes ago, skiwest said: Maybe nuCLEus 4.0 will be a shorter version of the Jenga tower. Or taller... 😉
December 29, 20204 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 29, 20204 yr BOOM! TUESDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2020 Megaproject tax credit signed into law In the coming decade, the state bird of Ohio may well be the construction crane. That's especially true in Ohio's six largest metropolitan areas where more than two-thirds of Ohioans live. That's because Ohio cities of more than 100,000 population, and places within 10 miles of them, will be the sites of megaprojects receiving anywhere from $240 million to $320 million in Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credits in the next few years. The reason is Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine today signed into law Substitute Senate Bill 39, authorizing the creation of the TMUD tax credit program. Now it will be up to the Ohio Tax Credit Authority (OTCA) to formulate rules for the administration of the program and offer the first issuance of tax credits possibly by summer 2021. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/12/megaproject-tax-credit-signed-into-law.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 30, 20204 yr 13 minutes ago, simplythis said: Awesome - Hopefully Nucleus, Centennial & FEB win credits I hope a lot more than that do, with up to $320 million in tax credits available by 2023. I'm going to crunch some numbers to show why I'm hopeful. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 30, 20204 yr 4 minutes ago, KJP said: I hope a lot more than that do, with up to $320 million in tax credits available by 2023. I'm going to crunch some numbers to show why I'm hopeful. yes. let us know what else up here in the Cleveland area can win credits in the next 3 years.
December 30, 20204 yr I'm pleased to see the bi-partisan support of this bill. @KJP quotes a couple of Republicans who really get the fact that the economies of Ohio's urban populations drive and benefit the economy of the entire state. It's nice to see that attitude from Republicans as they seem to usually (I know I'm generalizing) be more suspicious of urban centers and any legislation that benefits urban centers. Here's hoping the program can be up and running by summer.
December 30, 20204 yr I would love to see the Geis condos on E.9th, Lumen II, and the residential hi-rise in the warehouse district ( I forget the name, but I believe that this was never going to happen anyway) take advantage of this program.
January 2, 20214 yr Redirecting from the Random Visualizations thread....... 8 hours ago, NR said: -nuCLEus: this is solely, purely just optimism lol. But after all this waiting, and the TMUD bill finally passing, if the nuCLeus does get selected as one of the projects for a grant... I’d think/hope Stark would do everything he can to build his original dream tower. It also great that the interest rates are low in regards to financing, and also that a lot of businesses are looking to move downtown more than when this project started. Here’s hoping :) As far as nuCLEus winning a TMUD credit just because the developer came up with the idea for the TMUD, I wouldn't be so certain. Remember that John Carney et al came up with the idea for the catalytic historic tax credit ($25 million per project) to help him redevelop the May Co. So he applied for it several times over several years and couldn't get it. It took special legislation for May Co. to win it, authorizing bonus catalytic tax credits and ending the catalytic program. By that time, Carney had to sell the May Co. building to Bedrock and then it got renovated. Stark could well be in the same boat. @gottaplan is right about something very important in nuCLEus -- their largest committed tenant is a law firm that's planning to relocate from several blocks away. And their second-largest committed tenant is Stark itself -- again, a firm relocating from a couple block away. These relocations are not going to move the needle much on the economic impact of this project. Stark *might* win preliminary approval of a TMUD tax credit based on a promised economic impact such as from the construction jobs and perhaps some retailers added downtown and maybe a couple more office tenants. But in order to physically receive the tax credit certificate, Stark is going to have to document that the economic impact has done what he promised the Ohio Tax Credit Authority it would do. And that is going to be hard to do considering much of this project so far involves relocations of tenants (admittedly ones that are growing in employment). Then again, the promise of the tax credit may be enough to sway some investors enough to get the project built. It will be interesting to see the long-term financial outcome of this project if it is built as proposed. I'm working on an article that shows how competitive this program is going to be and how many winners there might be, and where. Stark has some TOUGH competition. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 20214 yr Predicting TMUD projects here.... 7 hours ago, KJP said: I hate making predictions. But some of you asked for this meaningless prognostication, so here goes.... SUNDAY, JANUARY 3, 2021 Counting Cranes -- predicting TMUD's impact on Cleveland One of the most impactful actions to boost downtown Cleveland in the New Year and beyond was made in recent weeks and months 125 miles to the south in our state capital. It culminated with Gov. Mike DeWine signing a piece of legislation last week. In a state legislature that has gained a reputation for harming Ohio's largest urban centers, it actually helped them this time. How do we know for sure? We don't. We're talking about the future. The great unknown. As many of you know, I hate making predictions. I possess no great insights on the future. If you saw my stock market picks, you'd agreed with me. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/01/counting-cranes-predicting-tmuds-impact.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 20214 yr 4 hours ago, mrnyc said: ha good choice of the skyline pic — my fav view is from the water. Thanks. I took that from the Goodtime 3 during the 2018 Air Show. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 20214 yr oh nice timing for the goodtime - what a great day on the lake that must have been. i wondered why so many boats.
February 25, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Pugu said: Is the hotel at Nucleus dead....or is all of nucleus dead? No hotel in nuCLEus. And why would nuCLEus be dead when the public financing component its developer invented finally got passed by the legislature and signed into law after more than three years of trying? They FINALLY got what they wanted. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 25, 20214 yr 19 minutes ago, KJP said: No hotel in nuCLEus. And why would nuCLEus be dead when the public financing component its developer invented finally got passed by the legislature and signed into law after more than three years of trying? They FINALLY got what they wanted. That's good---that its not dead. Just very quiet. I hate their last renderings; if it does get built, hopefully they'll return to their earlier designs which included a decent-height tower, the "Lane", and the hotel. Could live without the hotel if the height came back and the building is flush with Prospect not at a strange angle as last proposed.
February 25, 20214 yr 33 minutes ago, KJP said: No hotel in nuCLEus. And why would nuCLEus be dead when the public financing component its developer invented finally got passed by the legislature and signed into law after more than three years of trying? They FINALLY got what they wanted. Hopefully this is just the final quiet before the (good) storm for Nucleus. My hope (based on nothing but hope) is that Stark “settles” for a one tower mixed usage model that becomes more vertical than the last update ( was that actually 4.0?) and more distinctive - but not all the way back to the Jenga version. Of course, it would also be really nice to get a couple new twenty- some story buildings across the way from The Beacon. Hopefully, Stark still wants to make something of a legacy statement in downtown Cleveland.
February 25, 20214 yr I'd like to see something that takes advantage of the unique shape of the lot. And also some decent height to fill the gap in the skyline between the Public Square towers and those on East 9th.
February 25, 20214 yr I know I'm in the minority on this...but I would gladly take the original Jenga tower. It had nice height and it was definitely different for Cleveland.
February 25, 20214 yr I liked the plan that included adding 4 stories to the shabby little black building (I forget it's name) to the immediate west on Prospect. Just this morning I was wondering if Stark or somebody could not proceed with that one on its own. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
February 25, 20214 yr 23 minutes ago, RE Developer In Training said: We need a "bomb dropper" from KJP on this one. I feel it coming. Copy this and you’ll be able to paste it to the thread in 2024 and it’ll be just as applicable
February 25, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, Dougal said: I liked the plan that included adding 4 stories to the shabby little black building (I forget it's name) to the immediate west on Prospect. Just this morning I was wondering if Stark or somebody could not proceed with that one on its own. The shabby little black building is called the Herold Building. I'd like to see it fixed up but I would rather not see any additional floors on top. Edited February 25, 20214 yr by skiwest
February 26, 20214 yr 22 hours ago, cfdwarrior said: I know I'm in the minority on this...but I would gladly take the original Jenga tower. It had nice height and it was definitely different for Cleveland. Apparently you’re not in the minority! Stark’s website still has the least attractive model of them all, in my opinion, (version 3.0) on the development portfolio page.
March 3, 20214 yr Some stuff to chew on https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/03/seventeen-10-story-projects-may-see.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 4, 20214 yr I know it's been a long, long haul with Nucleus - and most forum members are fried hearing anything speculative about it - but how cool would it be if, in the end, Nucleus not only survives but recaptures some of the flair of that dramatic Jenga Tower. Honestly, I did think renderings of that most famous version of it in the Cleveland skyline looked as subtle as the Justice Center on steroids... In my neighborhood, there are Jenga towers in Jersey City and lower Manhattan - and I'm not a big fan of them here, either. But man it would be a nice "problem" to have the design of a 50- something story Nucleus to debate - especially if we know this time it's really happening! And it would be very ironic if it, at the end of the day, it eclipsed the height of the SW HQ. Now, with the TMUD in play, I guess we can at least reasonably think it's a possibility. If it resurrected looking more like version 3.0 with the office/apartment buildings separate - that would really add some great density and activate at the street level. I'm definitely still rooting for some version of it to finally get built. Edited March 7, 20214 yr by CleveFan
March 28, 20214 yr From @KJP's latest article: Quote Stark is running out of excuses to not build nuCLEus and, according to sources, intends to break ground by the end of this year. The only question is, will Stark build a 25-story office building as it proposed a year ago or go back to its original plan of a 50-plus-story mixed-use skyscraper, boosted by TMUD? Have you heard specific rumblings to this effect, or is the prediction based on math about how much space Benesch needs and how much space Stark needs to fill? I for one would still love to see the original nuCLEus plan in its full, quasi-ugly, post-modern, downtown-changing glory.
March 28, 20214 yr ^Doubt this means much, but as of today the Stark Enterprises website still has the separate office tower/ apartments rendering... I think we all liked the 50 story version- however, that version included a hotel if I recall correctly. Is downtown at a place where another hotel would make sense?
March 28, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said: ^Doubt this means much, but as of today the Stark Enterprises website still has the separate office tower/ apartments rendering... I think we all liked the 50 story version- however, that version included a hotel if I recall correctly. Is downtown at a place where another hotel would make sense? It’s been this way for a long time. The single-tower version never appeared on the website or any public marketing materials, which has led me to wonder in the past whether the single tower version has ever been more than “if all else fails, and Benesch says they can’t wait anymore, we’ll build this, but we’re still aiming for two towers.”
March 28, 20214 yr I was informed that Stark is considering going back to the 54-story, mixed-use tower, if they can get a TMUD credit. If not, then they will move forward with the 25-story office building at the end of the year. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 28, 20214 yr @KJP....do you have any idea regarding status of the application/award process as of this time? I have some vague recollection that perhaps for some reason I cannot recall (maybe it is the end of the state's budget cycle but I am not sure about that) that some have to be awarded by June 30, 2021-but I could just be making this up. It has happen before.
March 28, 20214 yr On 12/10/2020 at 1:11 PM, Growth Mindset said: Personally, I still like the original Jenga tower, not just because it is the tallest, but because it is the most unique. Cleveland has such boring derivative architecture. The jenga-like tower appears to be the current trend in architecture. NYC has at least one, Chicago has one, Austin, TX has one and Miami is building one; they're in development globally. https://www.thenextmiami.com/98-story-supertower-waldorf-astoria-hotel-and-residences-miami-will-launch-sales-in-march/ Edited March 29, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder
March 28, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Htsguy said: @KJP....do you have any idea regarding status of the application/award process as of this time? I have some vague recollection that perhaps for some reason I cannot recall (maybe it is the end of the state's budget cycle but I am not sure about that) that some have to be awarded by June 30, 2021-but I could just be making this up. It has happen before. There's no draft rulemaking posted yet by the Ohio Tax Credit Authority. Proposed rules by subsets of the Ohio Development Services Agency will be posted here: https://development.ohio.gov/rules/rules.htm The state is supposed to award 4 years of tax credits with up to $100 million per year. It was the opinion of the sponsoring legislator, Senator Kirk Schuring of Canton, that any unused tax credits from prior years would roll over into the next year. So, in his opinion, even though the first state fiscal year of tax credits came and went last June 30, he thought that those should be available to be awarded once the program gets underway. So it would seem that he believes that the current fiscal year's tax credits should also be available, if the rulemaking takes longer than the end of the current fiscal year. I am very curious to see if the text credit authority agrees. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 28, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: I was informed that Stark is considering going back to the 54-story, mixed-use tower, if they can get a TMUD credit. If not, then they will move forward with the 25-story office building at the end of the year. That might've been worth an "incoming bomb" warning!
March 29, 20214 yr 19 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: ^Doubt this means much, but as of today the Stark Enterprises website still has the separate office tower/ apartments rendering... I think we all liked the 50 story version- however, that version included a hotel if I recall correctly. Is downtown at a place where another hotel would make sense? I actually prefer this version over the 54 story version.
March 29, 20214 yr The only thing I liked about the 54 story version was the height. I didn't think the jenga design would have blended in very well with all the older buildings surrounding it. Edited March 29, 20214 yr by skiwest
March 29, 20214 yr 17 minutes ago, skiwest said: The only thing I liked about the 54 story version was the height. I didn't think the jenga design would have blended in very well with all the older buildings surrounding it. To me it wasn't even about the look per say it was you are putting a 54 story tower next to a 3-4 story building. The 2nd iteration matched the tones better and was a more appropriate height for the area.
March 29, 20214 yr sound like NIMBY in ohio city....Completely different but go off. Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
March 29, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, lockdog said: sound like NIMBY in ohio city.... 🙃 The kind of people who are willing to be more than 50 floors above ground do not fit the character of the gateway community!
March 29, 20214 yr 39 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: To me it wasn't even about the look per say it was you are putting a 54 story tower next to a 3-4 story building. The 2nd iteration matched the tones better and was a more appropriate height for the area. While I do get the height being out of place in the immediate area, I think it fits the overall look of the skyline(IMO), and it could lead to further development down the road. (example being Citibank in Queens)
March 29, 20214 yr While I do get the height being out of place in the immediate area, I think it fits the overall look of the skyline(IMO), and it could lead to further development down the road. (example being Citibank in Queens)Does it fit overall with the skyline? Absolutely. I would love to have seen it built on Jacobs lot where the best of the best buildings are supposed to go. I also would worry if they could even fill such a large space though. That's why I also feel the shorter version is better. It also adds more density imo.Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
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