August 25, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, gottaplan said: I say it every 6 months or so and I'll say it again, this deal isn't happening. They keep shuffling the deck on makeup of office/retail/apartments, etc.... scrambling for more incentives, trying to get new legislation passed.... they don't have it. Time is not on their side. Construction isn't getting cheaper the longer they wait. The added incentives are barely going to offset increased material costs. The new SW tower is going to be the new big draw and the other existing "Class A" towers will get down & dirty to win or keep Benesch. It's already happening. Which class A office towers even have room for Benesch? They aren't going to move into the new SHW tower so that point is irrelevant. Edited August 25, 20213 yr by Clefan98
August 25, 20213 yr 43 minutes ago, gottaplan said: I say it every 6 months or so and I'll say it again, this deal isn't happening. They keep shuffling the deck on makeup of office/retail/apartments, etc.... scrambling for more incentives, trying to get new legislation passed.... they don't have it. Time is not on their side. Construction isn't getting cheaper the longer they wait. The added incentives are barely going to offset increased material costs. The new SW tower is going to be the new big draw and the other existing "Class A" towers will get down & dirty to win or keep Benesch. It's already happening. I couldn't say this six months ago but that's not what I'm getting from two high-level sources close to the Starks. They say the project is happening. Their biggest retail/restaurant tenant is still on board and so is Benesch which is NOT going to SHW's new HQ, Cliffs' new HQ, the new Rocket Mortgage office building or anywhere else but "nuCLEus." "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 25, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I couldn't say this six months ago but that's not what I'm getting from two high-level sources close to the Starks. They say the project is happening. Their biggest retail/restaurant tenant is still on board and so is Benesch which is NOT going to SHW's new HQ, Cliffs' new HQ, the new Rocket Mortgage office building or anywhere else but "nuCLEus." Who's the retail tenant still on board? Cleveland Live? Starbucks Reserve? HopCat? Those are the only ones I even remember at this point lol
August 26, 20213 yr @tykaps your first guess was correct. I don't know if they still want 48,000 square feet but the one in St. Louis is even larger. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 26, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, sooner said: Cliff's new HQ? haha, i know, right? but there is a thread for that — stay tuned! https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/17125-cleveland-downtown-cleveland-cliffs-hq/?tab=comments#comment-1018559
September 9, 20213 yr The state's TMUD site is now live... https://development.ohio.gov/bs/bs_tmud.htm NOTE: The application will be available through the Ohio Department of Development’s application portal and must be filed electronically. Updates will be posted to the website once the application period is determined. Application requirements can be found in the program guidelines. No deadline for submitting applications has been provided yet. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 10, 20213 yr Berkadia Arranges $72.9M Loan for (The Beacon) Apartment Tower in Cleveland Global investment firm KKR provided the seven-year loan, which features a 4 percent interest rate and a 65 percent loan-to-value ratio. https://rebusinessonline.com/berkadia-arranges-72-9m-loan-for-refinancing-of-apartment-tower-in-cleveland/ Maybe with Stark Enterprises refinancing The Beacon Apartment Tower back in July that it's a sign that they are getting ready for another large construction project like NUCLEUS? Of course with their large portfolio of real estate properties it maybe just good timing to take advantage of low interest rates too. BUILD BABY BUILD! Edited September 10, 20213 yr by Larry1962 More details and links
September 10, 20213 yr They also undertook a significant restructuring of the ownerships of their KSU-area off-campus student housing and took a $20+ million loan on the consolidated properties. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20213 yr Let's Go!!!! As mentioned before, I'm hoping for the original tower - refresher pics provided below. I'm excited for our city and skyline's future!!! 😃
September 13, 20213 yr But what Stark did for the Beacon was not unusual. Every developer of a significant building recapitalizes their construction debt after the building leases out/stabilizes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20213 yr That second rendering w/ the SW tower included looks incredible. Those two buildings have the potential to really bring Cleveland into the 21st century. On top of that, the Easterly sprawl of 500+ foot towers brings some much needed cohesion to the skyline. I guess we can dream... Edited September 13, 20213 yr by clandman1123
September 13, 20213 yr It seems like there is a building boom in every large city except Cleveland. C'mon, Let's get cracking!
September 13, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: It seems like there is a building boom in every large city except Cleveland. C'mon, Let's get cracking! I am going to have to introduce you to @KJP and his blog
September 13, 20213 yr 20 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: It seems like there is a building boom in every large city except Cleveland. C'mon, Let's get cracking! There's a lot going on, just not represented in construction cranes over downtown. By this time next year, there should be at least two (one for City Club and at least one for SHW HQ) over downtown. As for the others (non-Cleveland Clinic), the line is forming outside the TMUD door at the Ohio Department of Development. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20213 yr ^ Are any of the projects lining up a the door "new construction" with any significant height? I guess I am thinking Magellan, Justice Center (if eligible), Cleveland Cliffs, etc? It seems there are lot of good rehab projects on the docket, it would be nice to see some cranes in the sky though.
September 13, 20213 yr 20 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said: ^ Are any of the projects lining up a the door "new construction" with any significant height? I guess I am thinking Magellan, Justice Center (if eligible), Cleveland Cliffs, etc? It seems there are lot of good rehab projects on the docket, it would be nice to see some cranes in the sky though. Not that I know of. Justice Center wouldn't be eligible and neither that or Cliffs are far enough along in their planning to determine their future course of action, let alone how tall they would build. NuCLEus and Magellan would probably be the tallest locally. Going to see a few new-construction projects in the 15- to 20-story range either this year or next. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20213 yr This is the Nucleus thread. We have other threads for general development news and discussion.
September 13, 20213 yr I think I like the original Nucleus better with the SW tower in the skyline. Previously it looked sort of odd and out of place, but SW really balances it out. I really hope we end up with something of that scale, if not exactly that same profile.
September 22, 20213 yr 40 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Thanks. Looks like the smaller office tower with the apartment building was submitted for approval back in 2019. If it was approved do they have to go back to planning now that the apartment building is no longer part of the plan? I would imagine they would and I don't think they have. And they certainly have no sought approval for a larger TMUD version that Ken keeps hinting about. Again I am concerned they are not farther along in the process as they try to get the credit but maybe I am making too big a thing. However, again they are in competition with other projects that might have more going for them in terms of an approval time line. @Htsguy Forget the larger version of nuCLEus. That was based on old info. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr I thought Stark was going to do the larger version if he gets the TMUD, smaller version if not.
September 22, 20213 yr 17 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I thought Stark was going to do the larger version if he gets the TMUD, smaller version if not. Based on old info, yes, Stark was. Now.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr 14 minutes ago, KJP said: Based on old info, yes, Stark was. Now.... Now it's going to be even bigger, right? 😉
September 22, 20213 yr 24 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Now it's going to be even bigger, right? 😉 No. Hold on.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: No. Hold on.... The people have waited long enough! And by long enough, I mean one hour.
September 22, 20213 yr We've seen 3 iterations of nuCLEus over the years. Medium - office tower only Large - office and apartments Extra large - office, hotel, skyscraper apartments Who knows what Stark is still planning, or even realistic for him to pull off.
September 22, 20213 yr 38 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: The people have waited long enough! And by long enough, I mean one hour. Yep, had to go pick up my son from school. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr Yes, I think what I'm working on qualifies as a.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: Yes, I think what I'm working on qualifies as a.... Where’s the article you tease! Lol
September 22, 20213 yr Sorry for the delay. Looks like @gottaplanwas at least partly correct..... nuCLEus may lose its largest pledged tenant to Key Tower By Ken Prendergast / September 22, 2021 One the eve of submitting applications for a new state tax-credit program to aid transformational real estate projects, the project that instigated the program is facing a major stumbling block. However, NuCLEus, announced seven years ago, is still alive but in what form isn’t publicly known. One of Cleveland’s largest law firms, Benesch, Friedlander, Coplan & Aronoff LLP, is reportedly considering moving its offices and hundreds of employees to Cleveland’s tallest and most prestigious skyscraper — Key Tower, 127 Public Square. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/09/22/nucleus-may-lose-largest-pledged-tenant-to-key-tower/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 22, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, KJP said: Sorry for the delay. Looks like @gottaplanwas at least partly correct..... nuCLEus may lose its largest pledged tenant to Key Tower By Ken Prendergast / September 22, 2021 One the eve of submitting applications for a new state tax-credit program to aid transformational real estate projects, the project that instigated the program is facing a major stumbling block. However, NuCLEus, announced seven years ago, is still alive but in what form isn’t publicly known. One of Cleveland’s largest law firms, Benesch, Friedlander, Coplan & Aronoff LLP, is reportedly considering moving its offices and hundreds of employees to Cleveland’s tallest and most prestigious skyscraper — Key Tower, 127 Public Square. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2021/09/22/nucleus-may-lose-largest-pledged-tenant-to-key-tower/ Well that is a disappointing bomb.
September 22, 20213 yr Oh well. This does not surprise me. It flat out took too long. Hopefully he can still pull something together.
September 22, 20213 yr FWIW Benesch has been remote or remote optional for the entire pandemic and is just now switching to a requirement that everybody come into the office at least a couple days a week. And the couple days of a week will NOT be staggered—as in everyone is supposed to be at the office at the same time at least a couple times a week. I’m not questioning any of what @KJP’s sources are saying, but I wonder if it’s partially a negotiating tactic, because based on the Benesch lawyers I have talked to, I don’t have the impression they’re downsizing. Also, maybe I missed it, but how do we know old NuCLEus isn’t happening? Benesch leaving could jeopardize the whole project, but if they stay with NuCLEus (which it sounds like they’re at least still considering) why couldn’t the original NuCLEus get built?
September 23, 20213 yr What surprised me is that the Benesch spokesperson didn't deny it. If you want to stop a rumor, deny it. Heck, even SHW's spokesperson denied the HQ rumor in 2018 even though it was already true at that point. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 23, 20213 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: What surprised me is that the Benesch spokesperson didn't deny it. If you want to stop a rumor, deny it. Heck, even SHW's spokesperson denied the HQ rumor in 2018 even though it was already true at that point. I think this could be consistent with either a negotiating strategy or true cold feet.
September 23, 20213 yr 11 minutes ago, KJP said: What surprised me is that the Benesch spokesperson didn't deny it. If you want to stop a rumor, deny it. Heck, even SHW's spokesperson denied the HQ rumor in 2018 even though it was already true at that point. I guess I am not understanding, there doesn't seem to be enough room at Key. Especially with the space requirements you quoted in the article. I cant see Benesch down sizing that much. Can you?
September 23, 20213 yr Isn't Benesch Stark Enterprises law firm? If the Benesch spokesperson is at the point where she didn't deny Ken's information I would think that Stark has known this for a while. It will be interesting to see if they actually submit a TMUD application. I would imagine leasing status would be a big consideration in the review process. Even more significantly, doesn't an applicant need to have more than 50% of financing in order to be a viable candidate. I would image that Stark has lost its financing now if Benesch is gone. So why even try for a credit at this point. I guess we find out at the end of October.
September 23, 20213 yr 59 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: I think this could be consistent with either a negotiating strategy or true cold feet. Maybe the firm is tired of waiting and waiting. They want to move and they don't see any real progress on nuCLEus. Another round of delays with no end in sight or the whole project is falling apart again. They have played the waiting game and are done with it.
September 23, 20213 yr I have said it before, but I will say it again. This is a surprise to no one who knows the Cleveland legal market. There are, *maybe*, a couple of law firms that could financially (on the basis of profits-per-partner) and (just as importantly) from a marketing standpoint theoretically justify the lease rates on new-build Class A space. But, this is Cleveland, why would they? They’ve got pretty sweet offices right now— that are hardly packed or overused due to Covid. Everything else is just a game of musical chairs. One firm shrinks, another one rises by the same margin. In fact, I bet that game of musical chairs will very soon be demonstrated at Key Tower….
September 23, 20213 yr 9 hours ago, gruver said: Everything else is just a game of musical chairs. One firm shrinks, another one rises by the same margin. In fact, I bet that game of musical chairs will very soon be demonstrated at Key Tower…. this is pretty much what I've been saying all along. and now there will be a frantic scramble to find a tenant to backfill the current Benesch space at 200 PS for when they exit
September 23, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, gottaplan said: this is pretty much what I've been saying all along. and now there will be a frantic scramble to find a tenant to backfill the current Benesch space at 200 PS for when they exit Another possible thought is there is strong interest in the 200 Public Square space already. Benesch may have found itself in a position where they cannot extend their lease any longer, beyond whatever terms are in place. Management knows they have stated they are moving and why should they lose out on a possible new tenant (or tenants) to accommodate one that doesn't see their current building in the future. The Huntington Building's management doesn't have any sympathy for the delays being brought on by nuCLEus's perpetual delays and project downsizings.
September 23, 20213 yr I'll be honest, there's still some journalistic/technical things I don't like about this story. I wrote the story because the sources were strong and the non-denial by Benesch was compelling. But Benesch's recent, apparent space needs and Key's space availability don't align. I also would have liked a clearer response by Millennia. I wasn't expecting a response by Stark -- although Bob Stark finally acknowledged receiving my inquiry e-mail this morning but otherwise didn't respond to it. EDIT: Stark's law firm is Thompson Hine LLP. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 23, 20213 yr 9 minutes ago, KJP said: I'll be honest, there's still some journalistic/technical things I don't like about this story. I wrote the story because the sources were strong and the non-denial by Benesch was compelling. But Benesch's recent, apparent space needs and Key's space availability don't align. I also would have liked a clearer response by Millennia. I wasn't expecting a response by Stark -- although Bob Stark finally acknowledged receiving my inquiry e-mail this morning but otherwise didn't respond to it. EDIT: Stark's law firm is Thompson Hine LLP. What is the current space being leased by Benesch and if known, when is the lease up? What sort of space were they interested in leasing at nuCLEus and what is available for them at Key?
September 23, 20213 yr And is Cliffs going to be needing more space at 200 PS? Does that factor into the equation?
September 23, 20213 yr 9 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said: What is the current space being leased by Benesch and if known, when is the lease up? What sort of space were they interested in leasing at nuCLEus and what is available for them at Key? I haven't been able to find out how much space Benesch currently has. Their lease info, space needs at nuCLEus, and available space at Key is in the article. 3 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: And is Cliffs going to be needing more space at 200 PS? Does that factor into the equation? Getting conflicting info now. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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