AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Stark Enterprises joint venture plans new retail, apartments, more on Gateway District parking lot

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Nearly six years after developer Bob Stark dropped plans for a large project in the Warehouse District, he's chasing another opportunity to replace downtown Cleveland parking lots with stores, apartments and offices.

 

Stark Enterprises and J-Dek Investments Ltd. of Solon have formed a joint venture to buy three parking lots, a garage and a small building from affiliates of the L&R Group of Companies in California. The sale would put key downtown development sites in the hands of local owners and set the table for new construction on a block between East Fourth Street and Progressive Field.

 

A real estate broker representing L&R confirmed that a deal is in the works.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/stark_enterprises_joint_ventur.html#incart_river

Awesome. I can't believe the pace of all these development announcements lately...

From the article, to note:

 

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But he waxed poetic about constructing something with "the kind of architecture that lets the world know that Cleveland is back, and that Cleveland is in competition with Chicago and New York."

 

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Stark Enterprises has no immediate plans for L&R's parking lot on West Ninth. But the company does plan to preserve and redevelop the Herold Building, the historic and condemned building at 310 Prospect Ave. L&R has been sparring with the city over the future of the structure, which is tied up in a legal fight over demolition versus restoration.

 

It's unclear how the sale to Stark and J-Dek will impact that litigation, which includes a Cleveland Housing Court case and an appeal in Cuyahoga County court. An attorney representing L&R declined to comment. Stark said he intends to save the Herold Building and to pursue new construction on the small parking lot next door.

 

Those Prospect Avenue projects would be a separate development from the new construction on the 3-acre Huron Road block.

Finally L and R comes to its senses.  Very exciting news.

This is crazy! Every day there's something new. Props to stark

Incredible news!  I wish some of tho development could incorporate a revised version of The Central Market for the growing downtown residents

It's about time.  This could be awesome.  I am disappointed that he brought up "national restaurant chains" in the article but I'm excited to see this develop.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Stark Enterprises joint venture plans new retail, apartments, more on Gateway District parking lot

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Nearly six years after developer Bob Stark dropped plans for a large project in the Warehouse District, he's chasing another opportunity to replace downtown Cleveland parking lots with stores, apartments and offices.

 

Stark Enterprises and J-Dek Investments Ltd. of Solon have formed a joint venture to buy three parking lots, a garage and a small building from affiliates of the L&R Group of Companies in California. The sale would put key downtown development sites in the hands of local owners and set the table for new construction on a block between East Fourth Street and Progressive Field.

 

A real estate broker representing L&R confirmed that a deal is in the works.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/stark_enterprises_joint_ventur.html#incart_river

 

OK, I need a cigarette after reading that......

I'm as skeptical as anybody but props to Michelle for noting the differences between this and Stark's proposal for the Warehouse District; makes me feel a little better for this go-around.

I remember reading KJP's excellent dissertation on the Y-Pescht plan back in 2005 proposed by Stark.  Something about Budapest and a bunch of history stuff  :-o.  On Urban Ohio of course.  At that time, this location was one of the legs of the "Y" if I remember correctly.   

 

I've decided with this one that I am not going to be skeptical.  Given the current trends in development, and an immenent deal closing on the property, I feel relatively confident.  One reason being that Stark has an excellent relationship with the International Council of Shopping Centers, and the national retailers involved in that society.  He wooed them to Crocker and Eton, and can probably do that here.  We have Cleveland themed restaurants on 4th, so I'm not dissapointed with national chains here.  It broadens downtown Cleveland brand by bringing them in IMHO.  If there is a man that can do that in Cleveland, I believe Stark is the guy.  Oh, and also, I don't think he's in the business of operating parking lots. 

In other Gateway news (and cross posted from the Indians thread since that is really about the team  and their performance and this IS a district development)

 

Cleveland Indians detail multimillion-dollar renovation plans, seat cuts at Progressive Field

 

The Cleveland Indians will eliminate roughly 7,000 seats from Progressive Field, as part of a multimillion-dollar renovation designed to boost attendance at games and create more spaces that appeal to young professionals and families.

 

During a meeting early Thursday morning at the downtown ballpark, Indians President Mark Shapiro said the team is responding to fan feedback and broader changes in professional sports.  Between the end of this season and opening day in 2015, the Indians hope to reconfigure stretches of the venue from center field to right field.

 

They'll cap off a section of the upper deck, which sits empty on all but the busiest days, with a platform that will conceal unused seats and create new game-viewing areas. They'll add a two-story, indoor-outdoor bar and five food areas dedicated to Cleveland neighborhoods, as part of a concessions overhaul. And they'll expand the Kids Clubhouse and other areas for families, while eliminating 16 or so suites as part of an ongoing effort to cut back on poorly used, higher-price seating.

 

"We're really adapting the building to the current sports landscape and the size of the market," Shapiro said.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/08/cleveland_indians_detail_multi.html#incart_m-rpt-1

What a win-win. Developing that huge parking lot and also saving the Herold building.

In other Gateway news (and cross posted from the Indians thread since that is really about the team  and their performance and this IS a district development)

 

Cleveland Indians detail multimillion-dollar renovation plans, seat cuts at Progressive Field

 

 

Started a Progressive Field renovation thread last night, since we also have for the renovations at FirstEnergy Stadium.

I'm as skeptical as anybody but props to Michelle for noting the differences between this and Stark's proposal for the Warehouse District; makes me feel a little better for this go-around.

 

The biggest difference being they will own this land.  They will want to maximize that investment

Niiiice. Office space seems like it would be no brainer for the upper stories along with the retail.

 

 

Tucked away parking, and good architecture.  He's saying the right stuff.  gotta make sure they do the E4th side right.  It is the corridor to the stadiums and the street can be really special if they extend the feel of 4th.

So, I wonder how this will tie in with the Ferrari dealership :wink:.

^If you recall, one of Stark's contemplations for Pescht(?) was a pedestrian only Rockwell Ave with a similar feel to E4th.  I can't imagine he is going to pass up the opportunity to extend the E4th feel directly across Prospect.

^If you recall, one of Stark's contemplations for Pescht(?) was a pedestrian only Rockwell Ave with a similar feel to E4th.  I can't imagine he is going to pass up the opportunity to extend the E4th feel directly across Prospect.

Not Rockwell, but Frankfort.

A little more info...

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140807/FREE/140809839/j-dek-ltd-stark-enterprises-inc-joint-venture-to-pursue-mixed-use

Excellent news.  Another surface parking lot bites the dust!  :clap: :clap:

The thought of downtown infill gets me all warm and fuzzy feeling inside  :-D

I'm loving these unexpected development announcements that seem to happen every other week!

A massing of the proposed development. Looks big enough to warrant its own thread.....

 

Michelle J. McFee ‏mjarboe[/member]  9m

So proposed @EnterpriseStark project in #CLE's Gateway District has a name: "nuCLEus." And here's a massing study. pic.twitter.com/kOAaq2YANA

 

Man Stark loves doing the massing thing. I hope the height is true.

Very nice, so if we went by that massing, it looks like 380' for the taller and 200-250' for the shorter. That would be skyline impact!

When first reading about the project (and I know it is not even conceptual at this point) I did not imagine buildings that tall. 

^I like the project and the new thread... just don't think Stark's name merits heading it.  He's no bigger than any of the other truly worthy developers (MRN, K&D, Fishman & Wolstein, etc.), he's just had a bigger microphone but with no results.  And now, following in their footsteps, it finally looks like he may get a major downtown development project done  ... yeah, I know it's a minor thing, but still ...

How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

^ What's the actual likelihood that the buildings will be that tall?

^ What's the actual likelihood that the buildings will be that tall?

 

Probably pretty good considering the expected purchase price of the land. You can't service a loan of that size with smaller revenue from a smaller development. But some financiers are going to be very hesitant unless Stark can get some big anchors lined up and can offer some valuable collateral.

I absolutely did not expect that kind of height! I think this will drastically alter the look driving through Cleveland on I-90 eastbound.  Also, the density this will cause on the north side of the arena will give a much more "big city" feel.

I'm loving almost everything about this project, but I'm sort of disappointed to see that it looks like they will be tearing down the attractive little brick building facing Prospect. 

^ What's the actual likelihood that the buildings will be that tall?

 

Probably pretty good considering the expected purchase price of the land. You can't service a loan of that size with smaller revenue from a smaller development. But some financiers are going to be very hesitant unless Stark can get some big anchors lined up and can offer some valuable collateral.

 

From Cranes: "Pietro said L&R set the price for the land high so that buyers would have to develop the sites vertically rather than continuing to operate it for parking."

^ What's the actual likelihood that the buildings will be that tall?

 

Probably pretty good considering the expected purchase price of the land. You can't service a loan of that size with smaller revenue from a smaller development. But some financiers are going to be very hesitant unless Stark can get some big anchors lined up and can offer some valuable collateral.

 

From Cranes: "Pietro said L&R set the price for the land high so that buyers would have to develop the sites vertically rather than continuing to operate it for parking."

 

So, at the end of the day, thank you L&R?

Ehhh

So, at the end of the day, thank you L&R?

 

The quote from Crain's makes it sound like L&R had an altruistic reason for setting the price high. Fact is they wanted to get paid -- period.

I'm loving almost everything about this project, but I'm sort of disappointed to see that it looks like they will be tearing down the attractive little brick building facing Prospect. 

 

I think you're talking about the building with Mr. Albert's Men's World, with Nick's sports bar and that DNA rooftop club... yeah, I don't like losing a quirky little building like this because it adds to the unique, historic urban fabric of Prospect.  But I'd rather have this new development more.  Sometimes you've gotta give something to get something.

Holy smokes that's tall. Pure speculation but based on that massing its looks like there would be a 4/5 story parking structure on the inside or a open rooftop pool area, after I looked at it again.

 

Re: nicks sports. A true dive bar gem.

can someone post an aerial of the site as it looks now w/o the massing?

 

lets see if it really warrants teardowns.

How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

From my research of looking for places....The 9 seems to be over 50% leased already.

can someone post an aerial of the site as it looks now w/o the massing?

So, I wonder how this will tie in with the Ferrari dealership :wink:.

 

Huh, that was actually one of the first things I thought of- I actually think it makes development of that site quite a bit more feasible, as it is actually right across East 4th St. from Stark's project, and could be a continuation of the Huron retail frontage created by Stark's project- all the way to Ontario.  Of course, foot traffic isn't what sells Ferraris, as only the richest of the people rich enough to buy one can afford to do so as an impulse buy.

It may not help get the ferrari brand, but it might help justify the construction of such a large building. 

 

Get the casino across the street and that ontario-huron intersection will be cookin with gas.

I never thought I'd see the day when this site would see a potential redevelopment much less people wringing their hands about the potential loss of the former Domino Lounge (Nick's Sports bar). Architecturally, I don't see it as a great loss but the building has some interesting history when it comes to Cleveland's jazz scene: http://www.cleveland.oh.us/wmv_news/jazz136.htm

I hate to see any historic structures get demolished. But if sacrificing this otherwise inglorious building and the nasty parking structure behind it is the price for filling one of downtown's most notable parking craters (second only to the Public-Square/Warehouse District crater -- more like a dead sea), then I'll take it.

 

BTW, someone asked earlier if Stark can do this given his failure with Pesht. He most certainly does have the capacity. Consider that he invested $400 million on Crocker Park's initial phase (and continues to invest with the second-phase residential, a new hotel and American Greetings HQ), with a cost of construction in excess of $400 per square foot. That includes all the planning, site prep, legal costs, interest, etc. Downtown will be more expensive, perhaps $500 per square foot or higher. If Stark invested in nuCLEus the same $400 million he initially invested in Crocker Park, we could be looking at an 800,000-square-foot project. That's not to say this is what he has in mind. This development actually looks like two 20-story towers, connected by a backwards C-shaped shaped structure of about 10-15 stories. In terms of total floors, that's in the ballpark of a Key Tower which has 1.5 million square feet. So based only on a distant view of a massing, Stark's conceptual idea for this development appears to be about double the size of the initial phase of Crocker Park. And like I said, Crocker Park has been added onto a lot since with new residential, AG and the hotel. So I would think Stark has the capacity to bring off this project, which I would guess has a total investment somewhere in the $700 million to $800 million range. But this project is a big hail mary -- as is the lakefront development which is of similar scale and price tag. That project is being developed in phases, and Stark will surely have to to develop this site in phases too -- most likely starting with the low-level stuff on Prospect west of East 4th. The phasing of what he builds next will depend on what retail anchors he signs. He'll have to get retail anchors to get financing. No one is going to give Stark the financing based on speculation he'll fill the towers at the rents needed -- though The 9's leasing at its higher rates is certainly encouraging.

 

BTW, the phasing to build everything could take 10 years or so. I was covering Westlake from 1996-2005 for Sun Newspapers when Crocker Park's first phase (the retail core) was finished in 2004. The planning for Crocker Park started several years before that. It was a disgusting legal and PR battle with the Jacobs Group fighting it by funding a citizens group, Citizens for a Greener Westlake. But that fight was not the reason why the project is still being built more than a decade later. Cleveland isn't Kuala Lumpur, Dubai or even Chicago. It takes many years for a project's phasing to be completed in Greater Cleveland. Stark is in his 60s and fought cancer a decade ago. But I see at least one of his sons is following in his father's development footsteps. So there is a realistic chance this project will be nurtured over time.

Looking at the massing, if we could bookend E4th with nuCLEus (can't believe I actually used that term) and 515 tower, downtown CLE would be in real good shape.

I would trade 515 for a lakefront cluster.

 

That said, this project (w/ the dumb name) is such an unexpected delight!

How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

From my research of looking for places....The 9 seems to be over 50% leased already.

 

69% to be exact.