Hope more than the Toby Keith bar is built in time for the Republican convention... go for a 500+ foot high tower, Mr. Stark (or you're a wimp!!!) :clap: :clap: :shoot: :shoot:

 

Don't quite get what you mean?  Stark has nothing to do with Toby Keith's.  It is almost a mile away in the Flats East Bank.

This will mean 3 20+ story new buildings in Cleveland in as many years.    Not sure when the last time that has happened?

If you could choose between 3 buildings over 20 stories or one over 60 stories, which one would you choose for Cleveland?

3 buildings over 20 stories. More density to the skyline. Height is great but hardly as important as a full skyline.

If you could choose between 3 buildings over 20 stories or one over 60 stories, which one would you choose for Cleveland?

 

Definitely the 3. We've got too many surface lots to fill.

If you could choose between 3 buildings over 20 stories or one over 60 stories, which one would you choose for Cleveland?

 

Definitely would want the multiple towers versus one supertall.  Sure, you can see the supertall from a distance- but our downtown has plenty of room for 60+ story towers in the future, if and when the market allows.  Adding the density with multiple 20+ story towers is what I would prefer. 

I would like to see a big time Nike store in one of those larger spaces, like the one in Times Square. You would think with Lebron that could help convince them.

 

There is no Nike town in Times square.  Shoe stores have built in "sneaker heads", but they are one dimensional stores.  Stores in that development will have more diversity and appeal to children to adults.  With more people moving downtown developers need to start thinking of family friendly stores and pet stores.

 

Yeah I was thinking of the FootLocker there. Point is being across from the Q and with Lebron back, a big time signature sports store like a Nike Town would be a draw for all of the visiting athletes and sports media visiting town. Seems like something Nike would be interested in with one of their biggest athletes across the street.

If you could choose between 3 buildings over 20 stories or one over 60 stories, which one would you choose for Cleveland?

 

Definitely would want the multiple towers versus one supertall.  Sure, you can see the supertall from a distance- but our downtown has plenty of room for 60+ story towers in the future, if and when the market allows.  Adding the density with multiple 20+ story towers is what I would prefer. 

Agreed. The 350-550' range would be nice for multiple buildings. We already have height, some filling in of holes would be nice!

Stark Enterprises seeks early approvals for 'nuCLEus,' large mixed-use project near The Q

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Stark Enterprises is seeking early approvals and financing help from the city of Cleveland for a downtown project that could marry 500 apartments, offices, stores, restaurants, a hotel and structured parking.

 

Representatives for the developer expect to appear at a city design review committee meeting Thursday and the Cleveland City Planning Commission on Friday. Both bodies will consider conceptual plans for a project called nuCLEus, slated for a large parking lot and other property north of Quicken Loans Arena.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_enterprises_seeks_early.html

The optimistic side of my cautious optimism just got bumped up a little with the new massing.

Anyone else find it interesting that a hotel is included?  I don't recall hearing anything about a hotel in any of the previous articles. 

^ There looks to be a new tower-- about 3/4ths the height of the tallest one-- in the new massing on the Cleveland.com article. Could that be the hotel?

 

I'm erring on the side of optimism as well with each new development regarding this project.  While quite large, it definitely isn't as pie in the sky as Pesht was.

Very exciting; I'm cautiously optimistic that this one's going to happen.  It seemingly came out of nowhere, but that's the way development's been happening in C-Town recent years as opposed to the bad-old-days when it took decades to plan developments which ultimately failed ... Also, I'm curious and interested that TIF will be sought to finance this project, which could make this a pilot program for other new downtown development.

I'm pretty mixed on this.  It would be a lot better if they figured out how to get the parking entirely wrapped in apartments and offices, instead of having massive 6+ level parking garages just above street level, a la Florida.

 

Fortunately he will have ground-level uses other than parking. Some of the retail offerings could be pretty significant -- up to 75,000 square feet in leasable area. But that's also divisible as is shown below. Also, I'm interested to see that he proposes to turn East 4th south of Prospect into a pedestrian corridor (except for a driveway off Huron), in addition to the laneway he promised. One graphic I'll repost from the previous page is the ground-level concept...

 

 

Anyone want to guess what a "NYC style monumental arch and gate" means?  Is it kind of like "world class signage"?

Also, I'm curious and interested that TIF will be sought to finance this project, which could make this a pilot program for other new downtown development.

 

Actually, the TIF part isn't really new. There's TIF in FEB, the 9, and even the Arcade Hyatt.

Add E.4th/House of Blues to that list

That's what i was thinking too.  TIF financing had financed several private developments.  I like how they carve out tax revenues that go to schools also.

As a member of the international council of shopping centers (ICSC), I will say that Stark is pitching this hard at all national conventions along side some marquee projects.  He's also taking out full page ads in the magazine monthly.  It's been along time, and maybe the first time, that I have seen a large Cleveland project getting so much national publicity in the industry.

I think a "NYC style monumental arch" would be something like the Washington Square Arch:

 

...which itself was based on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, which was based on the Arch of Titus in Rome.  :lol:

Nice massings but would be nice to see more than more boxes.  A few curves could really soften it.  500 foot tower is the way to go.

Anyone want to guess what a "NYC style monumental arch and gate" means?  Is it kind of like "world class signage"?

 

HA! "world class signage" gets me in a laughing fit every time. Made my night!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think a "NYC style monumental arch" would be something like the Washington Square Arch:

 

...which itself was based on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, which was based on the Arch of Titus in Rome.  :lol:

 

Something like this?

^We can only hope... :-D

 

The time frame on this project is aggressive, much like Geis. The RNC is 18 months away and Stark hopes to have the parking structure done by then. Does he mean both buildings A and B? Ground would have to be broken within the next couple of months so we will find out how 'real' this project is soon. The core sampling we have seen around town recently must have been for this. Question is with 31 stories will he have to go to bedrock which is time consuming or can they get away with a concrete pad construction? He will have to choose an architect quickly, my guess is it might be Biolosky and Partners who did work on Pescht and Crocker Park. Also 'Intesa' and the "Progressive Campus'. Whoever the architect they will have to somehow make 12 floors of parking not look like 12 floors of parking. I fear the Westin parking deck. Just say no.

A couple of questions that I have which might not necessarily or could impact the project:

 

1:  Could the recent elections, including the new Cuyahoga county executive, impact the financing offered to Stark?

2:  Will the "no orange barrels during the RNC" impact/slow the start of upcoming projects?

Some renderings in this video -  Fast forward to around 8:10

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiN3MkBfLz4&feature=youtu.be&a 

Those "renderings" you mentioned are pictures of the Four Seasons hotel and condominiums on 1st ave in Seattle. Thats just lazy journalism most likely.

"No orange barrels" is the call for no traffic snarling orange barrels and unsightly government related projects, plus road & bridge construction, public square renovation, etc. There is no such call to halt private construction projects by developers on private property. For goodness sake, there's certainly no hope among local officials and civic boosters to delay projects like this one, but to encourage them.  I'm curious how people in several places in this thread have come to be concerned about this.

I think Mr. Alberts used to be a funky bookstore named Kay's Books...as a kid who loved Mad Magazine that place was amazing.

Sad to see that building go...but in the name of progress it's a good thing.

Those "renderings" you mentioned are pictures of the Four Seasons hotel and condominiums on 1st ave in Seattle. Thats just lazy journalism most likely.

 

I doubt it. They were probably provided those images by Stark who themselves probably use in their direct pitching of the project. Renderings most likely don't exist, so they'll just use placeholders to communicate what they intend for the project, and capture it's essence.

^Right.

WOIO always does that with these projects. Remember when they provided that image for One University Cirle. Those renders are from a marketing piece Stark is using along various channels. mjarboe[/member] indicates the architect has not been chosen yet or at least announced publicly. Here it is...

New nuCLEus Project would change Cleveland's skyline

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A big development project may be both benefiting from and adding to downtown's momentum.

It has a great marketing name: nuCLEus would be in the center of key downtown areas and help create a new vision of the city.

It's a $300 million dollar project that includes a 30-story office tower, a parking garage and 500 apartments, plus shopping and restaurants.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/06/nucleus-project/18625091/

Did they say Cleveland's THIRD tallest building?!?

LORD...third tallest building? Does nobody fact check prior to reporting?

That would be quite an accomplishment for a 500' building to be taller than our current third tallest 659' building. :P

^658 :-)

Stark and J-Dek's nuCLEus project wins unanimous conceptual approval from Cleveland planning commission

 

I'm digging Stark's energy and thoughts.

 

"But Stark said nuCLEus would bring national retailers and restaurant companies back downtown. He also predicted the development would convince suburban office tenants to return to the urban core. As for design aspirations, Stark said he wanted to activate every street edge around the project with restaurants and storefronts.

He said it was a mistake in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when the city allowed an earlier generation of developers to build modern-style office towers without lively shops and eateries lining their lower floors. The mistake is that the buildings did not think about the streets, did not think about walkability," he said. "They were not designed with interactive conditions to encourage interactive relationships."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_enterprises_nucleus_proj.html#incart_river

Stark and J-Dek's nuCLEus project wins unanimous conceptual approval from Cleveland planning commission

 

I'm digging Stark's energy and thoughts.

 

"But Stark said nuCLEus would bring national retailers and restaurant companies back downtown. He also predicted the development would convince suburban office tenants to return to the urban core. As for design aspirations, Stark said he wanted to activate every street edge around the project with restaurants and storefronts.

He said it was a mistake in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when the city allowed an earlier generation of developers to build modern-style office towers without lively shops and eateries lining their lower floors. The mistake is that the buildings did not think about the streets, did not think about walkability," he said. "They were not designed with interactive conditions to encourage interactive relationships."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_enterprises_nucleus_proj.html#incart_river

That's a very intresting comment, and something that I've thought about.  Simply put, IMHO, developers were competing with the "allure" of suburban developments during the 60's through the 80's.  It was kind of like, "see, we can build that model downtown too!"  "You like it in Beachwood, we have it downtown also."  The tables have now turned in this cycle, and who knows, in future generations, it may go back to the suburban model as it will then be vintage...

I'm glad the planning commission agreed upon this now... But I wish some of the "parking garages taking up entire streets" could be changed with new development. For example the block bound by E. 9th, Walnut, Superior and E. 12th is such a waste. 1717 will activate the E. 9th side but what a shame those huge swaths of parking garages still will be there.

The latest article says the tallest tower will be 500 feet at 30 stories? That would put it just shy of Erieview. Even assuming for 14 feet per story, 30 only comes out to 420 feet.

^It's possible it has some sort of spire or crown to push it skyward without upping the floor count.

Has anyone seen a video of Stark's presentation?

The latest article says the tallest tower will be 500 feet at 30 stories? That would put it just shy of Erieview. Even assuming for 14 feet per story, 30 only comes out to 420 feet.

 

80 foot high atrium is not out of the realm of possibility.  Also, isn't 13 feet (including the floor/ceiling space) probably a bit low of an estimate for offices?

The latest article says the tallest tower will be 500 feet at 30 stories? That would put it just shy of Erieview. Even assuming for 14 feet per story, 30 only comes out to 420 feet.

 

Stark's drawing has 31 stories and I believe the new EY tower is 15' per floor. 

I hope we get more than the toothpick on a pedestal shown in the massing. Short podium on a huge lot, with a skinny tower sitting in the middle of it.

New nuCLEus Project would change Cleveland's skyline

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A big development project may be both benefiting from and adding to downtown's momentum.

It has a great marketing name: nuCLEus would be in the center of key downtown areas and help create a new vision of the city.

It's a $300 million dollar project that includes a 30-story office tower, a parking garage and 500 apartments, plus shopping and restaurants.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/06/nucleus-project/18625091/

 

Got to comment, those night shots of downtown look great.

The latest article says the tallest tower will be 500 feet at 30 stories? That would put it just shy of Erieview. Even assuming for 14 feet per story, 30 only comes out to 420 feet.

 

Stark's drawing has 31 stories and I believe the new EY tower is 15' per floor.

Parking garage floors are only 9 feet though.  And I believe there about 13 levels of those.  So I'll guess about 120 feet for the garage, 200 for the leasable space putting it at about 330.

The image released Thursday of the nuCLEus massing is a bit different from what we saw earlier in the week. Building 'A' from the design review agenda showed it as a 17 story structure with retail/parking/residential. The newer massing shows a shorter structure with retail/parking and a residential tower on top. We should have a better idea in a couple of months.

Stark and J-Dek leaning toward NBBJ of Columbus and Bialosky of Cleveland as architects of nuCLEus project

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Developer Robert Stark promised the city's planning commission that his proposed nuCLEus development downtown would provide "brand new iconic architecture that lets the world know we are competing at the highest level in global economy."

 

Stark didn't give specifics in the meeting, but said in an interview afterwards that he's negotiating with the Columbus office of NBBJ to hire two architects he considered the best in the international firm.

 

Developer Robert Stark displayed this slide of three unnamed urban towers on Friday at a City Planning Commission meeting in Cleveland as he discussed the general direction he'd pursue architecturally on his proposed nuCLEus project in downtown Cleveland.

Stark Enterprises of Cleveland and J-Dek Investments Ltd. of Solon

 

He declined to name the architects, but he said he'd like to combine NBBJ with Bialosky + Partners Architects of Cleveland, which has designed local projects including Stark's Crocker Park development in Westlake.

 

Jack Bialosky Jr., a principal of the firm, serves on the city's Downtown/Flats Design Review Committee.

 

Stark said he plans to announce the choice of architects "within a week," and that his Stark Enterprises and J-Dek Investments Ltd., of Solon, the firm partnering in the $250 million to $350 million downtown development, plan to be back at City Hall within six to eight weeks with conceptual designs for the large development.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_and_j-dek_are_leaning_to.html#incart_river

If nucleus really takes-off quickly, I wonder what this means for the Jacob's PS lot and some of the Warehouse District lots.  Additionally, while adding another 200 room hotel is fine, CLE really needs another hotel on the scale of the Hilton (or larger) to truly compete for big events. 

 

So Bob Stark seems to be going forward with nuCLEus (horrible name) because of the Republicans and LeBron?  If these weren't happening we could just forget about nuCLEus?  Isn't that nice.  Because downtown Cleveland didn't have momentum before they decided to come to town.  I am hearing that from the video correctly, right?

nuCLEus is a great name and branded right it will be successful. You wont find another "nucleus" development, like you would "the metropolitan", "the park/parc", "the grand", "the Terrace","sky house","'Lake/city/river-view" etc.

 

The name speaks directly to those who want to live in an urban setting.  It speaks to those who may want to party, dine or eat in an urban setting yet may not want to live there.  It speaks to it architectural neighbors between public square and the Hanna development to say, "you're not the only game in town".  Lastly for those coming from cities like Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington Dc, Baltimore and to a lesser degree, Boston & SE Florida, we're changing and our downtown is unique and lively.

 

As I said, during and after, the construction of the Pinnacle, the Park Building, then 668, (and other buildings) the building development and amenities would be up'd for each consecutive development.  As more buildings are turned over, developers will need to provide better building materials and internal (unit materials) and external amenities (ground level retail and neighborhood amenities). 

 

Right now we're at a point where there are very few buildings in downtown proper to convert, so new builds are on the horizon.  I wouldn't be surprised if plans, that are not public, are in the works.

 

Prospect went from being one of the worst streets in Cleveland to being prime real estate.  I wouldn't be surprised to see more market rate residential development between Public Square and at least 18 Street.  East of 18 I could see student housing or dorms.

 

If nucleus really takes-off quickly, I wonder what this means for the Jacob's PS lot and some of the Warehouse District lots.  Additionally, while adding another 200 room hotel is fine, CLE really needs another hotel on the scale of the Hilton (or larger) to truly compete for big events. 

I couldn't agree more.