Stark and J-Dek leaning toward NBBJ of Columbus and Bialosky of Cleveland as architects of nuCLEus project

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Developer Robert Stark promised the city's planning commission that his proposed nuCLEus development downtown would provide "brand new iconic architecture that lets the world know we are competing at the highest level in global economy."

 

Stark didn't give specifics in the meeting, but said in an interview afterwards that he's negotiating with the Columbus office of NBBJ to hire two architects he considered the best in the international firm.

 

Developer Robert Stark displayed this slide of three unnamed urban towers on Friday at a City Planning Commission meeting in Cleveland as he discussed the general direction he'd pursue architecturally on his proposed nuCLEus project in downtown Cleveland.

Stark Enterprises of Cleveland and J-Dek Investments Ltd. of Solon

 

He declined to name the architects, but he said he'd like to combine NBBJ with Bialosky + Partners Architects of Cleveland, which has designed local projects including Stark's Crocker Park development in Westlake.

 

Jack Bialosky Jr., a principal of the firm, serves on the city's Downtown/Flats Design Review Committee.

 

Stark said he plans to announce the choice of architects "within a week," and that his Stark Enterprises and J-Dek Investments Ltd., of Solon, the firm partnering in the $250 million to $350 million downtown development, plan to be back at City Hall within six to eight weeks with conceptual designs for the large development.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_and_j-dek_are_leaning_to.html#incart_river

 

Interesting article.  Really surprised at the stated speed of this thing (something that really has had me a bit skeptical about the whole project (as well as Stark's previous adventure downtown) because generally things really just don't work this way in Cleveland (or for that matter any where) on big projects like this. 

 

The quote that most interested me was "speed is essential on Nucleus in order to make the project's financing work".  I wonder why that is.  All I could think of was a fear that construction costs will rise in the future.  Could there be any other reason?

 

 

Interesting article.  Really surprised at the stated speed of this thing (something that really has had me a bit skeptical about the whole project (as well as Stark's previous adventure downtown) because generally things really just don't work this way in Cleveland (or for that matter any where) on big projects like this. 

 

The quote that most interested me was "speed is essential on Nucleus in order to make the project's financing work".  I wonder why that is.  All I could think of was a fear that construction costs will rise in the future.  Could there be any other reason?

 

It's simple.  Strike while the (development) iron is hot and before a competitor can steal your thunder.  The less competition for cash, the better opportunity you have to get what you're asking.

 

Why are news channels reporting it will be the third tallest building downtown. At 500 feet, it will be 5th, right?

Why are news channels reporting it will be the third tallest building downtown. At 500 feet, it will be 5th, right?

 

At 500 ft. this would be the fifth tallest, but it hasn't even been confirmed to be 500 ft.

As much as I'd like a Cleveland architecture firm to be chosen, I am much more impressed with NBBJ's portfolio. I hope they are chosen.

Why are news channels reporting it will be the third tallest building downtown. At 500 feet, it will be 5th, right?

 

"News channels" is a relative term. 

Wow, the background on Stark's architect search was pretty interesting. I would not have expected he was even considering the "it" firms of the day. Great to hear he's really focusing on the design of this thing.

 

As much as I'd like a Cleveland architecture firm to be chosen, I am much more impressed with NBBJ's portfolio. I hope they are chosen.

 

From the Litt piece, Stark made it pretty clear he's not considering hiring a Cleveland firm on its own. It will be a team between a local firm and an outside designer.

Regarding that "third tallest" isn't the difference between the terminal tower and BP building something like 50ft?  To be a new building and #3 you would almost have to purposefully want to be third

As a marketing professional...(albeit in pharmaceuticals) I LOVE the name NuCLEus. 

I think it's a genius play on words and hits home.

 

BRAVO BOB STARK!

MAY THE GHOSTS OF 'PESHT' (horrible name) BE GONE!

The quotes from Stark were interesting. I can picture him being interviewed by the architecture firms pitching a plan that's equal parts retail and parking garage with modern building poking out the top. I would like to see how they hide the parking from view.

 

 

Interesting article.  Really surprised at the stated speed of this thing (something that really has had me a bit skeptical about the whole project (as well as Stark's previous adventure downtown) because generally things really just don't work this way in Cleveland (or for that matter any where) on big projects like this. 

 

The quote that most interested me was "speed is essential on Nucleus in order to make the project's financing work".  I wonder why that is.  All I could think of was a fear that construction costs will rise in the future.  Could there be any other reason?

 

It's simple.  Strike while the (development) iron is hot and before a competitor can steal your thunder.  The less competition for cash, the better opportunity you have to get what you're asking.

 

Also, this may have been in works, at least conceptually, for a while.  Stark may actually be ahead of the curve prior to making an announcement.

 

There may also be some pent up demand that makes this easy to finance and sell.

 

I haven't lived in CLE since the early '80's and visit infrequently, but in the past 30 years I have never seen this amount of development happening.  Has CLE reached a critical mass where development feeds on development?  A lot of projects that were discussed since the late 70's and even the 60's (Hilton Hotel) are all of a sudden coming to fruition which have, in turn, caused newer development (nucleus).  The conversions of older office buildings into dwellings with a waiting list would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago.  The amount of projects and improvements within a 5 mile radius of PS is unprecedented in my lifetime.  And these aren't just "show" projects, these are projects with a lot of private money.

 

Even the GOP convention coming to CLE is generating a lot of buzz everywhere.  I remember when the Democrats announced CLT there was nowhere near the buzz or coverage.

 

Hopefully, the success of Nucleus leads to more.....

 

Does anyone know how tall the tallest building of Nucleus is going to be? 30/31 floors or 30 floors plus the parking and ground level stores? Thanks#

Also, this may have been in works, at least conceptually, for a while.  Stark may actually be ahead of the curve prior to making an announcement.

 

There may also be some pent up demand that makes this easy to finance and sell.

 

I haven't lived in CLE since the early '80's and visit infrequently, but in the past 30 years I have never seen this amount of development happening.  Has CLE reached a critical mass where development feeds on development?  A lot of projects that were discussed since the late 70's and even the 60's (Hilton Hotel) are all of a sudden coming to fruition which have, in turn, caused newer development (nucleus).  The conversions of older office buildings into dwellings with a waiting list would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago.  The amount of projects and improvements within a 5 mile radius of PS is unprecedented in my lifetime.  And these aren't just "show" projects, these are projects with a lot of private money.

 

 

Agreed. And I think MD88PILOT and I are about the same age (upper 40s), so we can recall the 1970s when Cleveland and most major US cities were at their lowest. To see them pace the nation's economic recovery despite all that's still against them is pretty remarkable. Lots of work still left to do, but this pace is incredible. And yes, I also agree that if nuCLEus gets built and fills up pretty fast, the more stodgy, less entrepreneurial companies like Jacobs Group will be willing to attempt something on Public Square.

 

Does anyone know how tall the tallest building of Nucleus is going to be? 30/31 floors or 30 floors plus the parking and ground level stores? Thanks#

 

Did you read the previous posts?

Also, this may have been in works, at least conceptually, for a while.  Stark may actually be ahead of the curve prior to making an announcement.

 

There may also be some pent up demand that makes this easy to finance and sell.

 

I haven't lived in CLE since the early '80's and visit infrequently, but in the past 30 years I have never seen this amount of development happening.  Has CLE reached a critical mass where development feeds on development?  A lot of projects that were discussed since the late 70's and even the 60's (Hilton Hotel) are all of a sudden coming to fruition which have, in turn, caused newer development (nucleus).  The conversions of older office buildings into dwellings with a waiting list would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago.  The amount of projects and improvements within a 5 mile radius of PS is unprecedented in my lifetime.  And these aren't just "show" projects, these are projects with a lot of private money.

 

 

Agreed. And I think MD88PILOT and I are about the same age (upper 40s), so we can recall the 1970s when Cleveland and most major US cities were at their lowest. To see them pace the nation's economic recovery despite all that's still against them is pretty remarkable. Lots of work still left to do, but this pace is incredible. And yes, I also agree that if nuCLEus gets built and fills up pretty fast, the more stodgy, less entrepreneurial companies like Jacobs Group will be willing to attempt something on Public Square.

 

 

Not to mention, more residential towers will be proposed and built.  As more residents move downtown, we'll see better everyday services as well is areas developed into shopping incubators.

 

If you noticed nobody is building on Euclid, which leaves it available to return as a retail destination.  Prospect is a great street for residential, so are Payne and Chester. 

 

NuCLEus' success raises the bar in Downtown and the ripple affect will be felt all over Cleveland.  The strong Downtown, the better Ohio City, Tremont, Det-Sh, Central and Payne-Sterling show to renters and buyers.

 

Corporations will then realize the city core is the best way to attract and retain employees.  Our friends who have moved outside of Downtown in the last 5 years will 2nd guess those moves to auto centric, far out locations.

Also, this may have been in works, at least conceptually, for a while.  Stark may actually be ahead of the curve prior to making an announcement.

 

There may also be some pent up demand that makes this easy to finance and sell.

 

I haven't lived in CLE since the early '80's and visit infrequently, but in the past 30 years I have never seen this amount of development happening.  Has CLE reached a critical mass where development feeds on development?  A lot of projects that were discussed since the late 70's and even the 60's (Hilton Hotel) are all of a sudden coming to fruition which have, in turn, caused newer development (nucleus).  The conversions of older office buildings into dwellings with a waiting list would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago.  The amount of projects and improvements within a 5 mile radius of PS is unprecedented in my lifetime.  And these aren't just "show" projects, these are projects with a lot of private money.

 

 

Agreed. And I think MD88PILOT and I are about the same age (upper 40s), so we can recall the 1970s when Cleveland and most major US cities were at their lowest. To see them pace the nation's economic recovery despite all that's still against them is pretty remarkable. Lots of work still left to do, but this pace is incredible. And yes, I also agree that if nuCLEus gets built and fills up pretty fast, the more stodgy, less entrepreneurial companies like Jacobs Group will be willing to attempt something on Public Square.

 

 

Not to mention, more residential towers will be proposed and built.  As more residents move downtown, we'll see better everyday services as well is areas developed into shopping incubators.

 

If you noticed nobody is building on Euclid, which leaves it available to return as a retail destination.  Prospect is a great street for residential, so are Payne and Chester. 

 

NuCLEus' success raises the bar in Downtown and the ripple affect will be felt all over Cleveland.  The strong Downtown, the better Ohio City, Tremont, Det-Sh, Central and Payne-Sterling show to renters and buyers.

 

Corporations will then realize the city core is the best way to attract and retain employees.  Our friends who have moved outside of Downtown in the last 5 years will 2nd guess those moves to auto centric, far out locations.

 

Amen.  Connection connection connection!  When Ohio City grows, it will connect to Detroit Shoreway.  When Detroit Shoreway grows it will connect to Clifton Baltic.  Likewise with Downtown, Midtown, Asiatown and St Clair Superior.  With it we shall return this city to a viable place to live, complete with good schools and services.   

 

After growing up in the suburbs, I've been living in the City of Cleveland since the early 90's (started with a place in the Chesterfield).  The closest I've seen to this kind of growth was the mid 90's heydey of Michael White (and Voinovich spillover).  Hopefully we add in the sports teams success of the gay 90's to our current successes!

 

The growth in the late 80's and most of the 90's was piecemeal.  The Tower City, stadiums and rock hall, while significant, didn't really lead to much additional development - and this during a time of a national boom in the economy -  they turned out to be one-off things.  The recent development, from I'd say 2004 onward, is locally driven, with local money and at least in the beginning small in scale but most importantly, sustainable.  They grew organically from one another and compliment one another.

 

And all this began under an extreme economic contraction. 

 

It seemed that previous efforts to jump-start something were predicated on a big ticket development meant to stimulate demand.  The difference this time is that demand is driving development.  It's like nuclear fusion --- once started, it keeps on burning.

 

My BF (an unabashed Harlem/NYC partisan - where the world ends at the Hudson) is even impressed.  We took a suite downtown during the gay games and a lot of our NYC/SFO/LAX friends were equally impressed.  I've never seen it like this....I'm almost giddy lol

 

Before I get way off topic here, As CLE becomes - dare I say it - a booming metro again (in some ways it is and always was) the suburbs will still be desirable for a lot of folks.  Growth need not come at their expense, but at the same time maybe the sprawl will stop.

A couple things.

 

In order for Nucleus to be CLE's third tallest building, it would have to be taller then the 200 PS Building. The 200 PSB is 658 ft tall. I do not see that happening unless Stark is able to land a tenant to take all of the 200,000 sq ft of office space proposed, or more so as to raise the height of the structure.

 

It would be great if Stark has already been working on tenants long before this development was made public

 

When it comes to adding another hotel around the size of the Downtown Hilton under construction as mentioned it a previous post, IMO I think the best place for that hotel would be on PS. I would tear down the 55 PS building, and have this site, and the Jacob's site developed into another mega project. Another hotel approx. the size of the Hilton in # of rooms could even have residential units too. This would give CLE another tall structure.

 

For the Jacob's portion of the PS lot, I have not seen much talk in any of the threads of one of NE Ohio's biggest employers whom I believe would be a great fit for downtown. That would be Group Management in Richfield, OH. It employs 8,000 + according to the list of largest employers in Cuyahoga/Summit County which Crains Cleveland Business publisher in 12/2014. GM  is a quiet co which is HQ'd right here, and also has offices in at least 4 other cities that I know of. It could occupy a building of 40+ stories for sure.

 

But getting back to Nucleus, I too am glad that this project is moving at lighting speed.

Who knows? Maybe he plans on building a 675' high residential tower? I kid, of course. We're not at level of demand for apartments just yet. :)

 

EDIT: Though I agree you'd have to shoot for third tallest very specifically since there is only about a 60 to 70 feet difference between 200PS and TT.

Future Cleveland skyline?

As a massing model, that's pretty good - but hopefully the final product isn't *quite* as Darth Vader-esque ;-)

Since the announcement this week with the massing a, I keep gettin a Ren Cen concept in my mind on how this will change the skyline.

The massing is too tall, but i love seeing the creativity. The Ren Cen is much larger in scope with five buildings:  727, 522, 522, 522,  and 522ft respectively. I'd love a 527 ft hotel/apt tower with four 322ft towers

 

Yeah, and the Ren Cen is ugly IMHO.  Big blob of building that all look the same.

Hopefully this development with be nothing like the Ren Cen which is basically a disaster of urban planning.  It is cut off from the street and the rest of the city for the most part.  Those huge things at the base of it (I think they have something to do with the air conditioning) make it seem like a fortress.  A 70 story building does not make up for that mess.

I don't care if this guy doesn't have a drivers license, he 'gets' downtown...

 

November 09. 2014 4:30AM

Ed FitzGerald to recommend Cuyahoga County commit $8.8 million of casino tax revenue to downtown projects

 

By JAY MILLER

Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald wants to commit $8.8 million from the county’s share of casino tax revenue to loans for three downtown Cleveland projects that he believes would improve residential options.

On Monday, Nov. 10, he will recommend to Cuyahoga County Council that the county make three commitments:

• a $4 million loan to Landmark-May LLC to convert the May Co. building on Public Square to 350 apartments;

• a $3.3 million loan to Stark Enterprises for the first phase of its nuCLEus project near Quicken Loans Arena

• a $1.5 million loan to the Historic Gateway Neighborhood Corp. and the Downtown Cleveland Alliance to be put toward a $7 million makeover of the Gateway district.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20141109/FREE/141109784?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

 

 

 

 

I don't care if this guy doesn't have a drivers license, he 'gets' downtown...

 

November 09. 2014 4:30AM

Ed FitzGerald to recommend Cuyahoga County commit $8.8 million of casino tax revenue to downtown projects

 

By JAY MILLER

Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald wants to commit $8.8 million from the county’s share of casino tax revenue to loans for three downtown Cleveland projects that he believes would improve residential options.

On Monday, Nov. 10, he will recommend to Cuyahoga County Council that the county make three commitments:

• a $4 million loan to Landmark-May LLC to convert the May Co. building on Public Square to 350 apartments;

• a $3.3 million loan to Stark Enterprises for the first phase of its nuCLEus project near Quicken Loans Arena

• a $1.5 million loan to the Historic Gateway Neighborhood Corp. and the Downtown Cleveland Alliance to be put toward a $7 million makeover of the Gateway district.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20141109/FREE/141109784?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

Yes, Fitzgerald does get it.  Too bad he's soon to be gone...I fear his successor is more of a party hack who will allow the old status quo to creep back in.

As a marketing professional...(albeit in pharmaceuticals) I LOVE the name NuCLEus. 

I think it's a genius play on words and hits home.

 

BRAVO BOB STARK!

MAY THE GHOSTS OF 'PESHT' (horrible name) BE GONE!

 

heyy whuddaya mean terrrrible nammme? i got rokonok in pesht. buda too. and around lake balaton for that matter. that means aunts, uncles & cousins. haha.

 

but unh, yeah, nuCLEus is much better. could not be more fitting.

 

it will be interesting to see what nbbj does if they for sure get the gig. i know they do a lot of institutional, corporate stuff, but i wonder if they have any similar mixed-use examples to this project? if anyone finds anything, post it. maybe it will give us a sense of the architectural style. or maybe not, but wouldn't hurt to poke around a bit and see what we see while we wait for renders.

 

http://www.nbbj.com/work/commercial-development/

 

^ The Saigon Centre looks about what I imagine nuCLEus would look like--mostly for the short podium lined with stores.

^ The Saigon Centre looks about what I imagine nuCLEus would look like--mostly for the short podium lined with stores.

 

Good call. I won't be complaining.

It's very close in scale and use, but to get the full picture you must imagine it with 5-13 floors of parking above the first floor retail.  If you need help with that, Google "Florida condo tower", and I'm sure you'll get a pretty good idea of what that looks like.  I really think this is a design element that must be changed.

I have always been a bit skeptical about the purported speed of this development and after reading Michelle's recent long article reporting on the Fitzgerald new conference held today on Public Square relating to casino money being awarded to various downtown projects, including this one, I am even more skeptical.

 

Maybe it was just the wording of the article but Michelle reiterated all the public funding sources that are being sought for this project (and it seems that they are important for it to go forward) and it just seemed like it is going to be a long draw out process.  From my observation none of this public support ever seems to move fast (and probably rightfully so...there should be a through review). 

 

Some of the public support being sought is a loan of casino money (approval by the Council), TIF, tax abatement for the residential portion and unspecified state support.  I would imagine that private financing (which is always a long process) is contingent on obtaining most if not all of the above).

 

Again I am not saying that this project will not get done, I am just not as opitomistic as some on the board that this is going to happen with lighting speed.  In my mind there is just a layer of too good to be true about all of this (again, at least the speed component).

^ The Saigon Centre looks about what I imagine nuCLEus would look like--mostly for the short podium lined with stores.

 

 

ah yeah i didn't see that one, looks close to me too. something like that would be great.

 

did you find anything else in their portfolio of projects?

Was looking through my pics of downtown from a flight a couple weeks ago and thought this one showed the plots of land and surrounding environs pretty well. Can't wait to see what this view will look like in a few years! :-)

 

 

NuCLEus project - initial project overview presented to Council, preliminary legislation approved for title... http://t.co/3VFlH30TDq

great news and paul thanks that excellent photo will be very helpful in showing this unfolding project in context.

Very ambitious to say the least. They have set aside a lot of large retail spaces. Too big for any of those to be restaurants so the "Laneway" will most likely resemble E. 4th St.

"NYC style monumental arch and gate"  I have no clue what this is supposed to reference.

Redirected from Flats East Bank......

 

It's certainly interesting to see the lineup as it takes shape, even if the announced bars/restaurants don't appeal much to me personally. FEB obviously has a big leg up given that it's actually under construction, but I wonder if FEB and Stark are chasing any of the same national chains for their retail space.

 

I suspect Stark is going after retailers, like those you would see at Crocker Park or Eton. He'll undoubtedly want restaurants and cafes, but they will be more of the eclectic national brands. Stark likes the brands he pursues to convey his "it's all about the experience" motto. And, of course, many tenants will go into a development if another specific tenant has already committed. If he can get the anchor tenant he wants, a number of other lesser tenants will follow along like a gaggle of ducklings.

^From the reporting, I had the impression national restaurant brands would be a major component of the NuCLEus retail space, and I imagine it will be an easier sell than stores at this point.  But as I think more about it, FEB is seems to be lining up flashier night life stuff (though also "eclectic national brands") and maybe Stark will be looking more at the same "upscale"-ish national chains that seems to surround every convention center these days (PF Changs, Cheesecake Factory, etc.). So maybe not much overlap.

Just snooping around and found the Pinterest page of an urban designer who works out of the NBBJ Boston office. The subject is NuCLEus Precedent Research. The examples are most likely what we might see whenever the first design is released. Take note of the facade on some of the garage images as that is a big part of this project. So it might be that the work will be done by NBBJ/Boston unless this designer was just doing some work for the CBus office.

http://www.pinterest.com/kevconant/nucleus-precedent-research/

^NBBJ ;)

Am I the only one thinking the budget  for the mega project seems quite low, while offering so much. A world-class, cutting edge designed 500 ft tower, hotel, shopping and restaurants, all for under 300 million dollars?

 

 

Am I the only one thinking the budget  for the mega project seems quite low, while offering so much. A world-class, cutting edge designed 500 ft tower, hotel, shopping and restaurants, all for under 300 million dollars?

 

 

I've been thinking the same thing.  A project of this scale would seem to run from at least $750M to $1B, esp in a dense, urban major downtown... IIRC, FEB's Phase I alone (the E&Y 21-story tower plus the Aloft Hotel) was around $300M.

Am I the only one thinking the budget  for the mega project seems quite low, while offering so much. A world-class, cutting edge designed 500 ft tower, hotel, shopping and restaurants, all for under 300 million dollars?

 

 

I've been thinking the same thing.  A project of this scale would seem to run from at least $750M to $1B, esp in a dense, urban major downtown... IIRC, FEB's Phase I alone (the E&Y 21-story tower plus the Aloft Hotel) was around $300M.

 

Yeah something is fishy about this. Can someone explain the low budgets projections? I would have thought at least 500million on the low end. Seems quite odd!

Have any of you ever followed a construction project from proposal to fruition and *ever* seen initial budget projections match the final outcome?

^convention center, but I get your point

I would love to see night lighting like on the Moscow City of Capitals towers. Im kinda hoping thats why we keep seeing them in the pictures of inspirational architecture for this project

 

www.youtube.com/embed/T8rtKVLGat0

Have any of you ever followed a construction project from proposal to fruition and *ever* seen initial budget projections match the final outcome?

 

Yes I have, at least to the extent that the projection is in the ballpark of the final costs. Of course, there are almost always hidden costs and cost overruns.  But the point in this case is that, even to non-experts as me (and perhaps Glenville), to peg this massive project as $300M is extremely conservative given the costs of recently completed large-scale projects.

Here's a proposed $300M highrise development in Calgary for comparison. I think the number is low, but probably not out of the ballpark. Unless you're comparing it to markets that have additional forces in place.

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/1573379/300-million-dollar-multi-family-project-coming-to-east-village/