^what does that mean? That the school acknowledges that they don't have authority anyway or that the project isn't asking for the tif anymore?

Indefinitely only means they don't know when the vote will be, not that there won't be a vote.

nuCLEus and a failed plan to renovate the Q are connected if by nothing else then geography. And then there's this:

 

Let's say Stark finally cobbled together his financing with the last piece necessary to bring it to fruition the TIFF component. It's not unreasonable to think it will be a close vote is it? Maybe just enough yes votes to pass. Then we get the news about the Q renovation falling through. Now what if that same small group of movers and shakers who will be voting on the TIFF proposal get spooked about the long term viability of the Q and, because both projects would be neighbors, just enough decide to vote no.

 

I'm not saying that scenario WILL happen but it does seem plausible to me.

 

In a town the size of Cleveland don't think things happen in a vacuum. Especially in the world of developoment.

Nucleus update. http://www.cleveland19.com/story/36252002/nucleus-where-does-clevelands-most-ambitious-downtown-project-stand

it should of at least mentioned the project absolutely won't get built without the deal, so that would leave the city with $300k or so a year in tax money from the parking vs all the new spinoff income tax, etc. of the nucleus residents and businesses. that would have made for a better close for the report. at least they brought it up though, so that is good to see.

Looks like the Q deal may be re-loaded... not sure why people just decided to complain about it and then revoke their petition to shut the renovations down. So now that the Q deal 'MAY' be back up on the board we 'MAY' see some better news with nuCLEus...

How did the vote go?

Currently the CMSD is being stubborn about a deal they should have taken in the first place... They have posteponed the vote indefinitely until the issue is brought back up either by Stark or the school board. Really not sure why they just screwed off...

There's alternatives to getting the finances ready for Construction. Looks like the CMSD just isnt gonna cut it. Back to the drawing board.

Technically stark does not need the school board for this though right? City council has final say on everything.

Under state law, this particular TIF proposal requires school board consent because of its duration and depth.

It's still not clear, however, how binding the board's vote on the project later this month will be. City Council has the final say under state law and council members have declined to commit to following the board's decision.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/08/nucleus_tax_deal_goes_to_cleveland_school_board_tonight_city_council_wont_commit_to_backing_board.html

welp, jeff johnson just lost the urban ohio vote lol

From ORC Section 5709.40(B):

 

Except with the approval under division (D) of this section of the board of education of each city, local, or exempted village school district within which the improvements are located, not more than seventy-five per cent of an improvement thus declared to be a public purpose may be exempted from real property taxation for a period of not more than ten years.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5709.40

 

Unless this project is using one of the other TIF types (which I don't think is so), school district approval is definitely required in this case. City Council approval is also required.

^It most be something different.  I even heard Eric Gordon tell the audience at the Zone rec center meeting that even if the board voted it down, city council could still approve it. 

 

Cleveland City Council has the ultimate vote on any tax-increment financing plan and actually approved a much leaner tax-increment financing arrangement for nuCLEus two years ago. But legislation related to the updated proposal, and other potential city funding, hasn't been introduced yet.

 

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/08/cleveland_school_board_delays.html

From the CMSD site:

 

Do both The Board and Cleveland City Council have to accept or reject the proposal, or will it go forward if only one body agrees?

 

Cleveland City Council has the final say and can approve the proposal without The Board’s consent.

 

http://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/nucleus

 

^^One of the exceptions to the requirement of school board consent for deep TIFs is making the school board completely whole with PILOT payments, which has been the case in nearly every TIF approved in Cleveland, and was no doubt the case in the earlier TIF for NuCLEUs council approved. Not the case with this deal.

 

I guess the one big wrinkle here is school governance. As a result of the "mayoral control," I guess it's possible that the school board doesn't have any real authority. I'm curious what's going on here.

CMSD vote. http://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/as-beacon-apartment-construction-begins-a-look-at-the-status-of-other-downtown-cleveland-projects

Hold on. In that video the reporter says they are voting tonight. Is that right? That seems really surprising.

From the video, the meeting is scheduled to start at 6:30pm tonight. No word yet on the result of the vote!

 

Edit: Just noticed this was 6:30pm *last* night (Sept. 13). No info that I can find --- perhaps the school board did not in fact meet or vote last night.

Yes she says they voted last night? What happened?

Omg I'm hoping for a YES. This project is what Cleveland needs

I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite my face attitude about this makes no sense to me.

 

Also the $121MM is over a 30 year time frame.  The school district is likely better off with a guaranteed $56MM than a shot $121 over 30 years.

Someone needs to write an editorial explaining this.. since the media in this town doesn't quite get it.  I guess all that matters is if the respective boards understand this.  Yes, you, Jeff Johnson.

I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite me face attitude about this makes no sense to me.

 

I don't consider the cle.com article any more misleading than your assertion that the CMSD would get $56 million up front. They would get $18 million from Stark, the rest is taxpayer money. Moreover we've yet to see any comment from the state indicating they could or would put up the matching funds.

 

The most likely scenario is that the state draws from the money earmarked for future school construction to match Stark's contribution. Instead of getting the state funding some years down the road they get it now. Read: Not "in addition to", but "instead of". The end result is CMSD gets $18 mil plus whatever they would have gotten anyway, not $56 or whatever.

 

I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite my face attitude about this makes no sense to me.

 

 

Sounds like we need an Urban Ohio editor on Cleveland.com

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/09/a_cleveland_high-rise_tax_deal.html#incart_river_home

 

 

Yet another shittily said article. Excuse my french, but they make it seem like nuCLEus will have other options after CMSD votes the tax abatement down. When it's voted down, that's it, unless city council forces it down their throats; which we all know they wont. Doesn't Cleveland know that you have to spend money to make money? Because they sure have avoided plenty of other nice deals from Stark and basically strayed away and dodged their own bullet pushing the issue on CMSD. Even though it's still the city's problem, they act like it's not. Am i not right here?

 

Anyways can we get an UrbanOhio editor for Cleveland.com? It seems we have the upper hand on development news...

CMSD will vote the abatement down, but then build a school on arguably some of the more valuable lake-view property outside of downtown at 45/Detroit.  We have anything but visionary leadership in this city. 

 

 

Agreed.

I know it's been said before by others on the forum, but it's beyond frustrating that the proposed Nucleus  abatement deal is portrayed by some in media and political circles as one in which the Cleveland Schools "give up 121  million dollars".  How can the city and school leaders not easily understand that there is no 121 million dollar pot?  It simply doesn't exist without the project - and the project doesn't happen without the deal. Where's our American spirit?  Isn't our history defined by how we've sacrificed to build great buildings, visionary projects and a city that rises up with new towers that symbolize its greatness?  If the powers that be in Cleveland don't embrace the possibilities and golden opportunities that come our way but, continue a philosophical argument about what " we're entitled to  and what we don't want  to give up"  then we'll wind up with a city that stops striving and growing as the 21st  century progresses.  I love the energy that one feels again in downtown - especially on a big night like a playoff game, for example - but just imagine the energy and vitality that a neighborhood anchored by a true 21st century skyscraper complex adds. I'm rooting for leadership in Cleveland to fight for that vision - not just for the downtown - but because I know that the deal actually creates money that students in the city will benefit from now. 

Agreed.

Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?

Agreed.

Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?

 

Not above floor 3 of a high-rise condo/apt tower.  Plus there are open views to the NE. 

I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

Agreed.

Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?

I know it's been said before by others on the forum, but it's beyond frustrating that the proposed Nucleus  abatement deal is portrayed by some in media and political circles as one in which the Cleveland Schools "give up 121  million dollars".  How can the city and school leaders not easily understand that there is no 121 million dollar pot?  It simply doesn't exist without the project - and the project doesn't happen without the deal. Where's our American spirit?  Isn't our history defined by how we've sacrificed to build great buildings, visionary projects and a city that rises up with new towers that symbolize its greatness?  If the powers that be in Cleveland don't embrace the possibilities and golden opportunities that come our way but, continue a philosophical argument about what " we're entitled to  and what we don't want  to give up"  then we'll wind up with a city that stops striving and growing as the 21st  century progresses.  I love the energy that one feels again in downtown - especially on a big night like a playoff game, for example - but just imagine the energy and vitality that a neighborhood anchored by a true 21st century skyscraper complex adds. I'm rooting for leadership in Cleveland to fight for that vision - not just for the downtown - but because I know that the deal actually creates money that students in the city will benefit from now. 

I find now a really vibrant scenes when I walk around or drive through downtown on a Saturday night, as long as the weather is half decent.  Not uniformly, of course, but certainly in the vicinity of Flats East Bank, and then Along Euclid between Tower City and Playhouse Square, and hopefully the hundreds of new apartments on Euclid from East 14th eastward will extend thiscrowd.  Also along part of Prospect.  Around the major hotels too, I suppose, but there are smaller groupings there.  I'm talking respectable-looking people downtown - like in other cities!

I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

 

Do tell!

I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

 

Any updates here?

Here is an interesting article from today.  At first glance, it seems that Zack Reed may actually more open to the TIF deal than Jackson. 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/cleveland_mayoral_candidates_o.html

"Expected groundbreaking - November 2037."

lets all be realistic here, Zach Reed is not going to be the mayor...

No updates in almost two months. I know some in this thread have speculated nothing would happen until after the election. I wonder if we will hear something in the near future.

Most likely the school board was waiting for the election to pass to be sure they can approve the TIF. I'm not sure how long Stark will actually hold onto this deal. I'm confident that the CMSD will approve the TIF, because now that Jackson is the incumbent they have the insurance and a high chance that Jackson will even aid the CMSD with this deal.

^ well, that sounds...hopeful? yes?

The school district was waiting because it wanted to make sure that the school district wasn't the only one giving up tax revenue when they heard the county was going to be having a meeting with Stark.

 

Yes, the school district and the county and the city slow-walked this debate until after the election. Even after local tax incentives, stark will be going to the state to ask for funding assistance as well.

I hope we hear sometime very soon.

I hope we hear sometime very soon.

 

The first post-election meeting came and went without a consideration of the NuCLEus TIF. Is there any reason to think it will be voted on at the December 12 meeting?

Next meeting when they answer public questions, you should probably ask if they have already come up with a consensus.

I came across this last night. Posted by somebody very much against the project, but holds some updates, I think?

 

http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=58654

I came across this last night. Posted by somebody very much against the project, but holds some updates, I think?

 

http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=58654

 

I think you're right as well. Also, thank you for that link. I always enjoy reading the opinion of someone who fundamentally misunderstands how finance works. It would be like me blogging about astrophysics or the human pancreas.

I came across this last night. Posted by somebody very much against the project, but holds some updates, I think?

 

http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=58654

 

No surprise given who the writer of this article is.