February 16, 20187 yr Yes, but its the. First official update on the status of the project in six months. I feel that within. a few months there will be votes by the boe and City to green light the project!
February 16, 20187 yr Close to completing financing is what we've heard before. For all we know the last piece is still the TIF agreement with the county and Cleveland schools. Though I doubt that's the only gap. Stark should have re-worked his plans for this site 2 years ago. Something cheaper to build with less parking and retail.
February 16, 20187 yr Close to completing financing is what we've heard before. For all we know the last piece is still the TIF agreement with the county and Cleveland schools. Though I doubt that's the only gap. Stark should have re-worked his plans for this site 2 years ago. Something cheaper to build with less parking and retail. Makes sense, but the retail price point on apartments in Cleveland is somewhat "hohum". The parking and retail component is what makes this project a winner for the developer, and the banks.
February 16, 20187 yr Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread.
February 16, 20187 yr Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread. I was interested in reading about this and found this site, which apparently claims Cleveland's is lower than Columbus. https://www.apartmentlist.com/oh/cleveland It's interesting to look at the national picture as well. https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/national-rent-data/ (disclaimer--I am not in the field and not sure of this website vs others in their methodology)
February 16, 20187 yr Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread. I'm not comparing the two markets, just pointing out why parking and retail is such an important component to the financing plan for this project.
February 16, 20187 yr Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread. I was interested in reading about this and found this site, which apparently claims Cleveland's is lower than Columbus. https://www.apartmentlist.com/oh/cleveland It's interesting to look at the national picture as well. https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/national-rent-data/ (disclaimer--I am not in the field and not sure of this website vs others in their methodology) That report looks to be a regional comparison, but point taken. I've spoken with several developers in downtown Columbus, Short North, etc and they stated that the $2sf rental number for new construction is where they're at and that Cleveland compares very favorably for potential future developments for them. Certainly not scientific, but reveals the boots on the ground opinion of where things are in the development world.
February 16, 20187 yr Guys just to clarify on the comments from Joe Marinucci. Go back and watch it he said, nuCLEus is in the final stages of "planning" a development. Nothing about financing/funding. This is hardly inside information or breaking news. But I will stay positive and still believe it will happen.
March 2, 20187 yr Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location.
March 2, 20187 yr This is E4th? Looks like its in the plaza of where NuCLEus would go... surely a nice rendering, I like the way they seal off the rest of E4th, nobody uses it, but people sure would for food and shopping of course, just across the street is more E4th delights. Surely a spot for before and after many Gateway district events... But hold up, how much retail do we really need? Looks like we have retail after retail, but isn't there already an oversaturation of retail in Cleveland? Am I the only one sorta noticing this or am I delusional? Well I guess the practicality of its location is alright. Right next to the arenas and if NuCLEus is actually built people would need a close place to get food and other retail items. I may have just answered my question... But I still think there's a little too much retail in the market right now... In theory, if downtown residency continues to grow, the retail piece could work, as long as it's tailored to those who live downtown. But the growth definitely seems to have slowed to more realistic levels, so you may be right about the oversaturation.
March 2, 20187 yr Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location. He needs to start building something here if he wants to see anything of nuCLEus built at all. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 2, 20187 yr ^I was always surprised MRN never seemed to show interest in those buildings. Seems like a perfect extension to e4th St.
March 2, 20187 yr Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location. I can already imagine that building opening up to a rooftop patio over Harry Buffalo.
March 21, 20187 yr Folks on reddit are claiming they have sources saying that the Nucleus project is officially a go and could break ground this year. Obviously that's a pretty big claim with absolutely no proof. I know a lot of you guys are really close to the pulse on a lot of these things, has anyone heard anything similar to correlate that?
March 21, 20187 yr ^WOW, coincidence bomb. I went to lunch today with a couple of pals from law school, one of which works at the firm handling some of the financing for the deal. He heard from people in his department that Stark thinks the downtown apartment market is over saturated and is considering scaling back the project in favor of condominiums - which would completely gut most of the existing financing. DISCLAIMER: He has never worked directly on the project so he does NOT have first hand knowledge.
March 21, 20187 yr ^Interesting that is supposedly Stark's mindset. I just glanced at the Worthington Yards website and note that only one apartment is left for rent and construction is still ongoing. It appears to be a quality project (despite very limited views) so it seems if you have an in demand product you won't have a problem leasing.
March 21, 20187 yr Condos (including rent-to-own units) make a ton of sense -- and we really need them to provide a more stable downtown residential market. 300 condos x with an average sale price of $300,000 = $90 million. The parking, retail, offices and the subsidies should be enough to pull together a major project. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 21, 20187 yr ^ He could be thinking that for sale properties are so limited downtown that he might be able to pre-sell a good chunk of units and make the financing a bit easier.
March 21, 20187 yr Condos (including rent-to-own units) make a ton of sense -- and we really need them to provide a more stable downtown residential market. 300 condos x with an average sale price of $300,000 = $90 million. The parking, retail, offices and the subsidies should be enough to pull together a major project. In all seriousness, the parking cannot be overstated. Between residents, commuters, and Q-Goers, a parking garage there is a goldmine
March 21, 20187 yr ^ Don't think Stark doesn't know that already. A full third of the gross square footage of nuCLEus' site plan is devoted to parking. That is far beyond the needs of the office and residential components. It's all for the retail and Q. We'll see what, if anything, was scaled back - probably not the parking.
March 21, 20187 yr https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8864375,-87.6474503,3a,33.3y,50.87h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sesWakw8SAMFT2bwdCMv6Kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 This condominium building in Chicago's West Loop neighborhood would be the perfect size and scale for the project, if it actually were to be revised to condos.
March 21, 20187 yr ^Well, he deadlifts for days, so I don't know how far we'll get with threats of physical violence.
March 22, 20187 yr ^WOW, coincidence bomb. I went to lunch today with a couple of pals from law school, one of which works at the firm handling some of the financing for the deal. He heard from people in his department that Stark thinks the downtown apartment market is over saturated and is considering scaling back the project in favor of condominiums - which would completely gut most of the existing financing. DISCLAIMER: He has never worked directly on the project so he does NOT have first hand knowledge. I know someone that works for Stark and the only thing I've gotten out of them is there are still plenty of meetings happening on the project. So it's not dead at all.
March 22, 20187 yr I know someone that works for Stark and the only thing I've gotten out of them is there are still plenty of meetings happening on the project. So it's not dead at all. Get your friend to talk, man! Ask him about the condos rumor. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 22, 20187 yr Stark thinks the downtown apartment market is over saturated and is considering scaling back the project in favor of condominiums - which would completely gut most of the existing financing. Jeez didn't I make that same comment about 6 months ago in this thread??? With the Playhouse Square project going forward, it will be a direct competitor. New construction (not renovation like the Standard Building or any of K&D projects), the rents will be at the top of the market. The total apartment demand may keep growing, but not that top tier which is going to be north of $2.20/sf For the previous comment that says this project is a go, set to break ground later this year, who is the GC doing the work? Not Turner or Walsh....
March 22, 20187 yr ^Well, he deadlifts for days, so I don't know how far we'll get with threats of physical violence. I really wish there was a way to like posts on the mobile site ???
March 23, 20187 yr With Massive Potential State Tax Credit, nuCLEus Could Be Back Posted By Sam Allard on Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:43 am Recent testimony by a Stark Enterprises executive at the Ohio Statehouse suggests that the nuCLEus project is still in the works. Stark Vice President Steven Coven testified in support of House Bill 469, a bill sponsored by Rep. Tom Patton, (R-Strongsville) and Rep. Ken Schuring (R-North Canton), which would provide a 10 percent tax credit to new "transformational" mixed-use development projects, or TMUDs. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/03/23/with-massive-potential-state-tax-credit-nucleus-could-be-back
March 23, 20187 yr With Massive Potential State Tax Credit, nuCLEus Could Be Back Posted By Sam Allard on Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:43 am Recent testimony by a Stark Enterprises executive at the Ohio Statehouse suggests that the nuCLEus project is still in the works. Stark Vice President Steven Coven testified in support of House Bill 469, a bill sponsored by Rep. Tom Patton, (R-Strongsville) and Rep. Ken Schuring (R-North Canton), which would provide a 10 percent tax credit to new "transformational" mixed-use development projects, or TMUDs. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/03/23/with-massive-potential-state-tax-credit-nucleus-could-be-back Hey, just learned a new acronym today...TMUDs !
March 23, 20187 yr ^Well, he deadlifts for days, so I don't know how far we'll get with threats of physical violence. I really wish there was a way to like posts on the mobile site ??? Haha, true! I've actually done the Go to Full Site thing just to like a post before, but then it seems like you have to get lucky to get back to the mobile version.
March 23, 20187 yr Gotta love their persistence.... Cleveland's nuCLEus project appears to be target of proposed tax credit for 'transformational' deals http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/03/clevelands_nucleus_project_app.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 23, 20187 yr If this law passes and the project can get $50 million as stated, then it will be built.
March 23, 20187 yr Does this mean that Stark or other developers in that 20 story category can essentially bypass local obstacles?
March 23, 20187 yr Does this mean that Stark or other developers in that 20 story category can essentially bypass local obstacles? I'm not sure what you mean by local obstacles?
March 23, 20187 yr It all depends on what the capital stack looks like. This deal may be able to allow the developer to forgo the school district portion of the TIF. From what I know of the capital stack of this project 50 million should pretty much get it done.
March 23, 20187 yr ^ There are not a lot of details yet. The article made it seem like the details might get worked out in amendments if the legislation is ultimately passed.
March 23, 20187 yr Will this funding mandate for-rent units only? Not yet. The only reference in the current version of the bill which references land uses, says: "Transformational mixed use development" means a site not exceeding seven acres that integrates some combination of retail, office, residential, hotel, recreation, structured parking, and other uses and that includes at least one building that is twenty or more stories in height. http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_132/bills/hb469/IN/00?format=pdf It doesn't say what kind of residential. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 27, 20187 yr Newsnet5 Story. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/from-university-circle-to-downtown-cleveland-housing-development-projects-are-on-the-rise-
March 27, 20187 yr Newsnet5 Story. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/e-team/from-university-circle-to-downtown-cleveland-housing-development-projects-are-on-the-rise- Typo in the story: "Of the more than $500 billion project..." Could you imagine a project that big here? That sounds like OCP's "Delta City" concept almost.
March 27, 20187 yr Typo in the story: "Of the more than $500 billion project..." Could you imagine a project that big here? That sounds like OCP's "Delta City" concept almost. Thanks for the blast to the past, to the decade that never should have ended. ;) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 28, 20187 yr Interesting revised (as of earlier this month) listing for office space at nuCLEus: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/413-E-Huron-Rd-Cleveland-OH/7812881/ First, the massing is very different than what I remember. The cantilevered building isn't shown here, but it's still shown on nuCLEus' website. Granted, its just a massing. See below. Second, Stark shows roughly 57,000 sf of office space available out of 200,000 sf total space to be built. Third, Stark says that office space will be available two years from now. That means he'd have to put shovel to ground by May to prove that claim. Here's the massing..... Same angle but with context..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 28, 20187 yr That massing has been floating around since late 2014 though, before they released actual renderings. I've been puzzled for a while as to why I keep finding it when an accurate and high quality massing was included in their final presentation.
May 8, 20187 yr Any news on this yet? It's been awfully quiet lately. This is one project I would love to see built.
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