March 11, 20196 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/7/2019 at 11:15 PM, Stormtrek said: Agreed. It's unfortunate that 2 of our Big 3 are victims of the Postmodernism color palette. As much as I like the design of Key Tower and 200 Public Square, they can look quite drab in Cleveland weather. However I really love how the skinny side of 200 Public Square looks kind of Art Deco-like when lit up at night. I never thought of that but I definitely can see it. This view of 200 Public Square reminded me of the below picture I took several years ago.
March 11, 20196 yr 29 minutes ago, Kagedawg said: I never thought of that but I definitely can see it. This view of 200 Public Square reminded me of the below picture I took several years ago. 200 Public Square was supposed to have the dramatic Oldenburg "Rubber Stamp" gracing its plaza. Too bad.
March 11, 20196 yr While the Crain's article I posted above focuses mostly on the subsurface conditions below downtown Cleveland, I found this part with new information more interesting for this and other future projects.... ________ Stark Enterprises didn't outline the proposed financing package for the project as it discussed the updated nuCLEus plans that it filed last Thursday, March 7, with the city of Cleveland to start anew the design review process. Ezra Stark acknowledged the project's location in a new federally designated Opportunity Zone also will aid financing. "It's going to help us attract investors from out of town," he said. Under the 2017 federal jobs act, investing in a project or business in an Opportunity Zone can allow investors to reduce or eschew federal taxes on capital gains if they stay in a project for 10 years. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr For reference here was the announced tenant list from a couple years ago: Shake Shack (opening in Garfield building) Cleveland Live! Starbucks Reserve Bar HopCat https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/02/08/tenants-announced-for-stark-development-nucleus-spoiler-alert-shake-shack We should hear more tenant announcements soon if they plan to break ground in August. Unless the above, plus a half-full office building is enough to secure financing.
March 11, 20196 yr Stark Enterprises has had a Twitter account since January: https://twitter.com/StarkCLE I was their third follower as of today. They started using it only three days ago with this tweet... Edited March 11, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 12, 20196 yr 19 hours ago, Mendo said: For reference here was the announced tenant list from a couple years ago: Shake Shack (opening in Garfield building) Cleveland Live! Starbucks Reserve Bar HopCat https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/02/08/tenants-announced-for-stark-development-nucleus-spoiler-alert-shake-shack We should hear more tenant announcements soon if they plan to break ground in August. Unless the above, plus a half-full office building is enough to secure financing. I really hope the "Cleveland Live!" makes it into this still. That kind of venue would be perfect in the area. I've been to a few of their venues and they're really cool. Would be a nice attraction for downtown.
March 12, 20196 yr 59 minutes ago, imjustinjk said: I really hope the "Cleveland Live!" makes it into this still. That kind of venue would be perfect in the area. I've been to a few of their venues and they're really cool. Would be a nice attraction for downtown. Agreed, their location in Louisville is really cool
March 12, 20196 yr 33 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Agreed, their location in Louisville is really cool The more entertainment venues / attractions Downtown can get, the better. It'll make the area more viable in the long run. Can't rely on bars and restaurants. The flats really needs something to anchor it too. I was just there this weekend and it was pretty busy, but not as busy as it could be. E. 4th is already pretty healthy, but it won't hurt to have another attraction.
March 12, 20196 yr For posterity here are the high-res versions of the renderings. Baker makes a cameo in one of the shots. edit: The pics are a little bigger than I thought -- about 1.5-2MB each -- so let me know if it kills the page. Edited March 12, 20196 yr by Mendo
March 12, 20196 yr Thank you I can see them now! Sports Tap Room, Studio 250, Byron, <cant see the name> Bar and Grill.
March 12, 20196 yr Generally like the design but in my mind the apartment building could use some tweaking. Right now reminds me of an airport hotel. I am curious what type of comments they will receive from in design review.
March 12, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, YABO713 said: Agreed, their location in Louisville is really cool I actually thought "4th Street Live" in Louisville was a little underwhelming, but maybe I wasn't there at a prime time. Too many bland national chains for my taste, although maybe Cleveland needs a true tourist-trap collection of chain restaurants to take the next step as a destination city? ?
March 12, 20196 yr 43 minutes ago, ML11 said: I actually thought "4th Street Live" in Louisville was a little underwhelming, but maybe I wasn't there at a prime time. Too many bland national chains for my taste, although maybe Cleveland needs a true tourist-trap collection of chain restaurants to take the next step as a destination city? ? That's my thought process. That's why I don't mind places like Shake Shack and chains in addition to our amazing local eateries. There's always going to be the tourist that goes to Olive Garden in Times Square.
March 12, 20196 yr Agree with @Htsguy "Right now reminds me of an airport hotel." The blank wall on the east and west elevations needs to go. As for the lane way; I love the idea but the execution is terrible. It reminds me of a small wing exit of a 70's mall and has about the same amount of charm. I would start with changing the floor to brick to add some warmth. Fair criticism IMO, wonder if anyone agrees.
March 12, 20196 yr Actually I cannot figure out where the lane way is? Is it depicted in any of the renderings? I thought it was suppose to go between the two buildings.
March 12, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, Htsguy said: Generally like the design but in my mind the apartment building could use some tweaking. Right now reminds me of an airport hotel. I am curious what type of comments they will receive from in design review. It would make a colossal difference if they wrapped the garage-level apartments south along E.4th, if only part way until the garage entrance.
March 12, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, Htsguy said: Actually I cannot figure out where the lane way is? Is it depicted in any of the renderings? I thought it was suppose to go between the two buildings. It'll go where that current path is next to the parking lot. It has those weird street lamps there now. It's hard to see it in the rendering because the building goes over the lane.
March 12, 20196 yr 58 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said: It'll go where that current path is next to the parking lot. It has those weird street lamps there now. It's hard to see it in the rendering because the building goes over the lane. 17 minutes ago, Clvlndr in LV said: I thought this was the lane way: 16 minutes ago, Clvlndr in LV said: ^ If it's not the lane way whatever it is it needs some attention> Thanks. I had not seen that rendering. I agree it could use some work. Does not look like the concept when Nucleus was first presented way back when. I think they presented some inspiration pictures from Melbourne and if I recall the concept looked much more exciting in those pics.
March 12, 20196 yr This rendering of the lane way looks like shops set up as an after thought in a large, modern, poorly designed convention center hotel.
March 12, 20196 yr To paraphrase Bob Stark, "It's all about the execution." "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr Parking garages are noisy and stinky- cars starting, reving their engines, honking horns, alarms. That stuff is going to echo out into this laneway and make it very unpleasant. A laneway would be really cool if it was between buildings with actual human use, on the other hand. But that's not the plan.
March 13, 20196 yr Note - Bitter clevelander rant ahead Better than an empty parking lot but overall a disappointing last 5 years since the initial announcement - including the current renderings. that apartment building’s design belongs in the suburbs and the office ‘tower’ will have next to zero impact on the skyline...does anyone ever see the Eaton Building (356 feet) and say ‘wow?’ also while everyone is fawning over these renderings they are not much different than the ones we all hated that were leaked earlier this year...see attached
March 13, 20196 yr "We all" hated? Not everyone. I love pedestrian-friendly stuff like this that can get built. I dont fret over architectural styles. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr We're lucky anything is being built. If Stark pulls this off it will be amazing. I also love the design. Not everything is about height. Urban density is more important.
March 13, 20196 yr I agree with Millenial and KJP. Plus the impact on the skyline should be pretty substantial. Especially from the south and the view from the baseball stadium, but it also should be fairly prominent from the north between the Beacon and Huntington tower (or Huntington and Terminal Tower from the shoreway bridge until something pops up on the Jacobs lot).
March 13, 20196 yr I like the office building a lot. Like I said above the apartment building can use some tweaking (especially the east-west walls as mentioned by another poster) but it certainly is not awful. Height is fine and will have a presence from the south. Agree with "X" re Lane way
March 13, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: "We all" hated? Not everyone. I love pedestrian-friendly stuff like this that can get built. I dont fret over architectural styles. Yeah, I personally don't care too much about architectural "style" either. I care more about how they are going to cover that parking garage along Prospect/East 4th/Huron and their own laneway. And how they're going to orient retail space and other active uses along the ground floor. And how they're going to keep parking entrances/exits from being overwhelming or dangerous to pedestrians. And how they're going to use balconies and rooftop decks to give the verticle surfaces of the building some human presence.
March 13, 20196 yr I’m ok with the office building’s proportions and scale just wish it could break the 400’ mark. The residential building is the one that really looks like a suburban apartment tower that you’d find on mayfield rd or in Schaumburg (Chicago burb)
March 13, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, BigMacky said: I’m ok with the office building’s proportions and scale just wish it could break the 400’ mark. The residential building is the one that really looks like a suburban apartment tower that you’d find on mayfield rd or in Schaumburg (Chicago burb) Orrrr..... this is what I see. ?
March 13, 20196 yr I think people overly associate "impact on skyline" with verticality. I'd much rather have a dense cityscape than one smattered with tall buildings and surface lots. Secondly, density will necessitate verticality, logically. As this surface lot gets removed, it will make the other lots more valuable and thus more likely to end up as ambitious projects than a parking garage or 12 story mid rise.
March 13, 20196 yr DC doesn't have super tall buildings, but its still a breathtaking and amazing city. There's cool new developments among the historic architecture. There's plenty of cities with shorter skylines that don't have super tall buildings. I like Old Jaffa a lot more than Downtown Tel Aviv. ?. The Nucleus is far better being constructed as its planned now than not at all, plus the building designs are vastly improved over the old ugly buildings. Could still use some tweaking, but not sure why people are whining over the reduced height. Edited March 13, 20196 yr by imjustinjk
March 13, 20196 yr Just had lunch with the partner of a development firm who questioned whether Stark could start work by year's end. He said the question is whether and how soon Stark can add more office and retail tenants and how much O-Zone funding they may have. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr 27 minutes ago, KJP said: Just had lunch with the partner of a development firm who questioned whether Stark could start work by year's end. He said the question is whether and how soon Stark can add more office and retail tenants and how much O-Zone funding they may have. Is this the same developer who was also bad-mouthing Dick Pace (in another thread)? Did he say anything nice about any of his other competitors?
March 13, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, bjk said: Is this the same developer who was also bad-mouthing Dick Pace (in another thread)? Did he say anything nice about any of his other competitors? I didn't say that Pace was a competitor of his. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2019/03152019/index.php#myGallery Agenda for March 15, 2019 DOWNTOWN/FLATS DESIGN REVIEW DF2014-110 - nuCLEus New Construction: Seeking Schematic Design Approval Project Addresses: 420-630 Prospect Avenue; 601-611 Huron Road Project Representative: Amy Haney, Stark Enterprises Not all graphics from their presentation are shown..... ' "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr After seeing these I like it much more than I did. I just can't get over that large exposed parking deck...
March 13, 20196 yr From the best worst movie ever, "They Live"... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13, 20196 yr 18 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said: After seeing these I like it much more than I did. I just can't get over that large exposed parking deck... It looks like there should be a parallel tower there, like Reserve Square.
March 13, 20196 yr This is too awesome to be true, hopefully some folks at the design review board read this forum and reflect the will of UrbanOhio lol and I wonder if the parking deck will be solid enough for future construction (maybe the text of the doc actually mentions this or someone has some insight). Edited March 13, 20196 yr by GISguy
March 13, 20196 yr Overall I like it but I agree ^ my first thought was that boxy looking open parking garage... no good. Also I wish that the roof of the wedge on the corner of E. 4th and Prospect was a green roof as in one of the massing. Seems like they just intent to have it be a flat surface Edited March 13, 20196 yr by mrclifton88
March 13, 20196 yr Its too bad they couldn't put the garage entrance on Huron and keep East 4th street going....
March 13, 20196 yr I would rather have a shorter residence tower that spans the overall parking footprint to cover it the garage.
March 13, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, ASPhotoman said: After seeing these I like it much more than I did. I just can't get over that large exposed parking deck... It's a little weird their slides didn't go into more detail about their proposed screening on the exposed parking deck. That one slide makes the case it's an "opportunity for active screens, color, signage," which implies they have some ideas, but there's nothing about a specific build-out.
March 13, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, StapHanger said: It's a little weird their slides didn't go into more detail about their proposed screening on the exposed parking deck. That one slide makes the case it's an "opportunity for active screens, color, signage," which implies they have some ideas, but there's nothing about a specific build-out. In this rendering, you can see some sort of facade to the parking deck, but it's still kinda...eh.
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