July 10, 20195 yr On 7/6/2019 at 6:54 PM, Geowizical said: Anyone know when an official groundbreaking announcement is coming? While I’m finally feeling optimistic and excited as well, I won’t 100% believe an August groundbreaking until I see it... agreed. The newest thing Stark has working against him on this project is escalated construction pricing and shortage of construction trades - cement finishers, carpenters, masons, electricians, glazers... all in short supply. The companies running this work just don't have the manpower available. Talk to any good construction worker, he's probably been averaging 50+ hrs per week the last several months. The last big project I worked on budgets for end of 2018, I had several big general contractors tell me "thanks but we're too busy".... can't recall ever hearing that before. Duplicate that down the line for a half dozen major subcontractors/suppliers and your construction budget gets out of whack quickly. Does anyone on here know who Stark was planning to use to build this? I'd heard Walsh a couple years ago, but that fell apart. Turner? Gilbane?
July 10, 20195 yr 15 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: ^ Cleveland Construction Oh lord. What experience do they have in new construction highrise? From the website it looks like they built a 20 story court building in Florida... That's somewhat troubling to me. Means the big boys either passed or were too busy.
July 10, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, gottaplan said: Oh lord. What experience do they have in new construction highrise? From the website it looks like they built a 20 story court building in Florida... That's somewhat troubling to me. Means the big boys either passed or were too busy. ^ Nonsense https://www.clevelandconstruction.com/projects/hospitality/ Edited July 10, 20195 yr by Clefan98
July 10, 20195 yr 5 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: ^ Nonsense https://www.clevelandconstruction.com/projects/hospitality/ While Cleveland Construction has some labor issues, it's not the supply kind. They treat their workers poorly, but they do have them. They're a national company and can move workers around as needed. From everything I've heard about this project, there is no need for doom and gloom. I'm hoping for some more news this week or early next week. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 10, 20195 yr 40 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: ^ Cleveland Construction This will most likely be a Cleveland Construction run project with Arbor as the GC. Course neither one of them have contracts yet so who knows.
July 10, 20195 yr 25 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: ^ Nonsense https://www.clevelandconstruction.com/projects/hospitality/ Well I stand corrected. They do have some high rise experience - albeit hotels. I'd still rather see a Turner or Walsh or Gilbane-type GC but oh well. Not rooting against them, just a surprising choice
July 10, 20195 yr Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site...
July 10, 20195 yr ^ If you just read the 65 pages, shouldn't you already know the answer to your question?
July 10, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, troeros said: Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site... You just described urbanohio
July 10, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, troeros said: Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site... 2 minutes ago, troeros said: Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site... Well this post sure put a smile on my face
July 10, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, troeros said: Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site... Easy. It's a 1. massive proposal of 2. an architecturally polarizing design by 3. a controversial and flamboyant developer in 4. a city that's desperate for such things. It's a perfect storm.
July 10, 20195 yr lots of starts & stops. Well actually no starts. More like lots of "hurry up & wait's"
July 10, 20195 yr 6 minutes ago, troeros said: Im not really familiar with this project, but out of pure work boredom caught up on most of the 65 pages My only question is how is their 65 pages of comments on a 5 year project that has yet to even break ground, let alone have any construction equipment on the site... Check out the Flats East Bank thread. Look at how much discussion we had on that before ground was broken. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 10, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, surfohio said: Easy. It's a 1. massive proposal of 2. an architecturally polarizing design by 3. a controversial and flamboyant developer in 4. a city that's desperate for such things. It's a perfect storm. I will grant you number 1. Don't think 2-4 are delay factors or even correct. The big nut you did not mention: The need for creative financing in Cleveland which really must be a work of art compared to other cities.
July 10, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, Htsguy said: I will grant you number 1. Don't think 2-4 are delay factors or even correct. The big nut you did not mention: The need for creative financing in Cleveland which really must be a work of art compared to other cities. I never mentioned these were the delay factors. Just that they're interesting points that fostered a lot of discussion.
July 10, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, surfohio said: I never mentioned these were the delay factors. Just that they're interesting points that fostered a lot of discussion. OK, got it.
July 12, 20195 yr FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2019 Demolition for NuCLEus to start by mid-August Two sources confirm that demolition is slated to begin by mid-August for the nuCLEus development in downtown Cleveland. While there is no news yet of a groundbreaking date for the $354 million development led by Stark Enterprises, most signals appear to be green for building the mixed-use project. But there are still some yellow signals, too. NuCLEus will feature two 24-story towers, one with offices and the other with residential built atop a pedestal of parking and retail. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/07/demolition-for-nucleus-to-start-by-mid.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20195 yr 23 minutes ago, KJP said: FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2019 Demolition for NuCLEus to start by mid-August Two sources confirm that demolition is slated to begin by mid-August for the nuCLEus development in downtown Cleveland. While there is no news yet of a groundbreaking date for the $354 million development led by Stark Enterprises, most signals appear to be green for building the mixed-use project. But there are still some yellow signals, too. NuCLEus will feature two 24-story towers, one with offices and the other with residential built atop a pedestal of parking and retail. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/07/demolition-for-nucleus-to-start-by-mid.html KJP the purported demolition of the Herold Building is new and disturbing. The city fought tooth and nail to prevent its demo 5 years ago and in fact that whole legal battle is probably what forced those California investors to sell to Stark in the first place. Rather than at least make some minor efforts to shore up the building it looks like Stark just let it deteriorate further. I am not a happy camper. Is the city just going to let him now expand that parking lot it borders on 4th? Doesn't he have to have a development plan in order to use it temporarily for parking?
July 13, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, Htsguy said: Doesn't he have to have a development plan in order to use it temporarily for parking? Yes "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 13, 20195 yr So he is filling in a Parking lot just to create a new one..... Edited July 13, 20195 yr by MyPhoneDead
July 13, 20195 yr I agree- it shouldn't be demoed. However, it's hard to imagine that the newly combined lot would stay vacant for "long". With the renovation of the arena, existing E4th attractions, Casino, a built-out Nucleus, and other new residences all in such close proximity, could it not be argued that this newly combined lot becomes one of the most highly valued pieces of real estate in downtown Cleveland? As it sits today, it just seems that it's too small to attract much interest for anything more than a parking lot, but when combined - the possibilies seem endless. Perhaps Stark is already planning for Nucleus phase 2.
July 13, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, West153 said: I agree- it shouldn't be demoed. However, it's hard to imagine that the newly combined lot would stay vacant for "long". With the renovation of the arena, existing E4th attractions, Casino, a built-out Nucleus, and other new residences all in such close proximity, could it not be argued that this newly combined lot becomes one of the most highly valued pieces of real estate in downtown Cleveland? As it sits today, it just seems that it's too small to attract much interest for anything more than a parking lot, but when combined - the possibilies seem endless. Perhaps Stark is already planning for Nucleus phase 2. Actually I can provide you a list of valuable lots that have stayed vacant for years (like 30 or more) after demo, none more glaring than on Public Square. In fact with all the nearby attractions you list it could be argued that this makes it a highly valued piece of real estate for parking more than anything else.
July 13, 20195 yr 9 minutes ago, West153 said: I agree- it shouldn't be demoed. However, it's hard to imagine that the newly combined lot would stay vacant for "long". With the renovation of the arena, existing E4th attractions, Casino, a built-out Nucleus, and other new residences all in such close proximity, could it not be argued that this newly combined lot becomes one of the most highly valued pieces of real estate in downtown Cleveland? As it sits today, it just seems that it's too small to attract much interest for anything more than a parking lot, but when combined - the possibilies seem endless. Perhaps Stark is already planning for Nucleus phase 2. Starks track record of getting developments off the ground at least Downtown is spotty at best. I wouldn't hold my breath that it gets filled soon.
July 13, 20195 yr Fair enough ^^. I agree, it should be preserved, just trying to find a silver lining.
July 13, 20195 yr Loving the steady line of new construction. Now work on the ground breaking of next one before this gets completed. Heck make it five, Geis ,, (City Club)??, Lakefront and Sherwin Williams headquarters at Jacobs lot! **Hurry up before next recession! Edited July 15, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic
July 15, 20195 yr On 7/13/2019 at 12:30 PM, Mildtraumatic said: Loving the steady line of new construction. Now work on the ground breaking of next one before this gets completed. Heck make it five, Geis , Sherwin Williams, (City Club)??, Lakefront and headquarters at Jacobs lot! **Hurry up before next recession! Isn't Sherwin Williams & Headquarters at Jacobs lot the same project
July 15, 20195 yr 3 hours ago, simplythis said: Isn't Sherwin Williams & Headquarters at Jacobs lot the same project Typo sorry but no one knows for sure where their headquarters will be. Edited July 16, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic
July 16, 20195 yr Pre-demolition photo-documenting the site Edited July 16, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 16, 20195 yr 36 minutes ago, Terdolph said: I have a bad feeling about this project. I wouldn't be surprised if all we end up with is two parking lots. Forever and ever?? Stop acting like a beaten-down victim. If this project doesn't happen, then there will be another. So what? You didn't invest anything. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20195 yr It is super, super annoying when people just do the Eeyore complaining without adding any actual information to the discussion.
July 17, 20195 yr I still don't understand why they have to demo that building now if it's not in the way of the planned towers. Edited July 17, 20195 yr by jam40jeff
July 17, 20195 yr 17 hours ago, KJP said: Forever and ever?? Stop acting like a beaten-down victim. If this project doesn't happen, then there will be another. So what? You didn't invest anything. KJP, I think it is valid to have misgivings about this project. It would be more accurate to say that, if this project doesn't happen, then there may be another, though it may not be during any of our lifetimes.
July 17, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, Vincent_G said: KJP, I think it is valid to have misgivings about this project. It would be more accurate to say that, if this project doesn't happen, then there may be another, though it may not be during any of our lifetimes. Accurate. So many times... So many damn times, a developer will over promise and under deliver. It's normal to be skeptical. It happens all the time in Cincy. Developer will promise this extravagant development, demolish a few beautiful historic structures, and what we end up with are parking lots and broken promises.
July 17, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, Vincent_G said: KJP, I think it is valid to have misgivings about this project. It would be more accurate to say that, if this project doesn't happen, then there may be another, though it may not be during any of our lifetimes. Misgivings about the project itself or whether it will ever come to be? Like @X posted above, it is annoying when one just blurts out a "misgiving" without providing some facts in support of the statement {based on inside information or not) or even speculates so that other forum members can rationally consider the information or opinion and hopefully respond in order to foster discussions. To childishly simple state "this won't happen" is just plain annoying.
July 17, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, troeros said: Accurate. So many times... So many damn times, a developer will over promise and under deliver. It's normal to be skeptical. It happens all the time in Cincy. Developer will promise this extravagant development, demolish a few beautiful historic structures, and what we end up with are parking lots and broken promises. There 65 pages of skepticism in this thread regarding Stark as a developer and Nucleus as a viable project. Much of it very legit. However, based on statements of people possibly in the know (including @KJP who is usually on top of things) we may actually finally be beyond that point. I guess we will know for sure in a month or so.
July 17, 20195 yr Nucleus WILL Happen. The gap is very minimal at this point. I don't see anyway it doesn't get done.
July 17, 20195 yr 10 minutes ago, zbaris87 said: Nucleus WILL Happen. The gap is very minimal at this point. I don't see anyway it doesn't get done. Any idea on when Pace breaks ground on the lakefront warehouse rehab?
July 17, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Vincent_G said: KJP, I think it is valid to have misgivings about this project. It would be more accurate to say that, if this project doesn't happen, then there may be another, though it may not be during any of our lifetimes. Most ideas/projects anywhere don't happen, it'sjust that we don't hear about most of them. So I think it's valid to have a wait-and-see approach. Don't get too high. Don't get too low. Probably 99 percent of us on this forum are just spectators for individual projects. As in spectator sports, if the project doesn't happen, wait until next time. It's no skin off our backs if it doesn't happen. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20195 yr Can anyone recap what Stark is requesting for a TIF on this project? In terms of dollars and specific uses? Thanks
July 17, 20195 yr Don't remember uses but the city TIF dollar amount is $19 million. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, West153 said: ^ Phase 2, duh ? Silly me! I always thought that block with the Harry buffalo was an eyesore..
July 17, 20195 yr On 7/17/2019 at 10:26 AM, KJP said: Most ideas/projects anywhere don't happen, it'sjust that we don't hear about most of them. So I think it's valid to have a wait-and-see approach. Don't get too high. Don't get too low. Probably 99 percent of us on this forum are just spectators for individual projects. As in spectator sports, if the project doesn't happen, wait until next time. It's no skin off our backs if it doesn't happen. A Fantasy League for Cleveland Development projects is probably something that 99 percent of people on this forum (myself included) would put skin in the game for though lol Edited July 18, 20195 yr by ASP1984
July 17, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Mildtraumatic said: Well, they got the name right. A nucleus is very small. Drum roll, please. Small but powerful. The central business district of any city behaves very much like a nucleus of a cell. This will become even more true as wealth and power becomes even more centralized and concentrated in the hands of the few. Its actually an appropriate name in terms of the developments location.
July 17, 20195 yr Only joking. This is progress and love it. Filling a hole and will have nice presence on the street and from progressive for televised games. .
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