2 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

Only joking. This is progress and love it. Filling a hole and will have nice presence on the street and from progressive for televised games.

.

 

 

Can't think of a better strategic location for this project. Its a prime piece of real estate. 

1 hour ago, Mildtraumatic said:

Well, they got the name right. A nucleus is very small. Drum roll, please.

As Terdolph (Tedolph?) mentioned, my biggest problem with what Stark is doing is demoing a historic building that is not in the way of what he plans to build.  Why does this need to be done now?  What if the rest of the project falls through?  Then we're actually worse off (with a brand new surface lot) than if he hadn't done anything at all.

19 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

As Terdolph (Tedolph?) mentioned, my biggest problem with what Stark is doing is demoing a historic building that is not in the way of what he plans to build.  Why does this need to be done now?  What if the rest of the project falls through?  Then we're actually worse off (with a brand new surface lot) than if he hadn't done anything at all.

He won't be the most likeable guy in Cleveland to say the least. Nucleus is almost a done deal right?

 

That one story brick building I won't cry over though.

 

Edited July 17, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

47 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

He won't be the most likeable guy in Cleveland to say the least. Nucleus is almost a done deal right?

 

That one story brick building I won't cry over though.

 

I will because it's unnecessary to lose at this point.

I’m torn.  I don’t want to add surface parking by any stretch, but if demo paves the way for future development I’m all in.  Yes the Herald building has some history, but how long has it sat vacant?  In it’s current state it’s an eyesore.  I’m guessing the ends don’t justify the means when it comes to renovating it.

5 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

I’m torn.  I don’t want to add surface parking by any stretch, but if demo paves the way for future development I’m all in.  Yes the Herald building has some history, but how long has it sat vacant?  In it’s current state it’s an eyesore.  I’m guessing the ends don’t justify the means when it comes to renovating it.

Buy the land, sit on it, raze it when you have something solidified. 

14 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Buy the land, sit on it, raze it when you have something solidified. 

I thought it was a closed deal.

edit   But I realize this is Cleveland and nothing is a closed deal until it physics can be applied.

 

Edited July 17, 20195 yr by Mildtraumatic

1 hour ago, Mildtraumatic said:

He won't be the most likeable guy in Cleveland to say the least. Nucleus is almost a done deal right?

 

That one story brick building I won't cry over though.

 

 

It's a three story building I believe, and it doesn't matter if Nucleus phase 1 is a done deal or not, this building isn't in the way.  Why would he tear down a building that might be in the way of a hypothetical phase 2 before he even starts on phase 1?

Edited July 17, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

1 minute ago, jam40jeff said:

 

It's a three story building I believe, and it doesn't matter if Nucleus phase 1 is a done deal or not, this building isn't in the way.  Why would he tear down a building that might be in the way of a hypothetical phase 2 before he even starts on phase 1?

I was assuming it was the one story in above google street view.

 

This 2 story building and the large parking garage behind it will be demolished for Nucleus

 

This building below is on a different block is also endangered, but for reasons not made clear (for active construction parking for Nucleus/possible phase 2) The second pic is the building people are more upset about because it doesn't need to be torn down for the Nucleus project. 

 

Now we should all be on the same page...?

1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said:

I’m torn.  I don’t want to add surface parking by any stretch, but if demo paves the way for future development I’m all in.  Yes the Herald building has some history, but how long has it sat vacant?  In it’s current state it’s an eyesore.  I’m guessing the ends don’t justify the means when it comes to renovating it.

This could be said about a good chunk of buildings in Cleveland. Glad some people saved them for a better day. How long has the JHB complex been an eyesore? Sure glad that didn’t get demo’d. Same goes for Herold.

Gang... as one of the younger people that follows these forums, why on earth are you all worked up against the demolition of that dilapidated eyesore. Level the whole block, Harry Buffalo included. Build something new and fresh. I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

1 minute ago, jfristik said:

Gang... as one of the younger people that follows these forums, why on earth are you all worked up against the demolition of that dilapidated eyesore. Level the whole block, Harry Buffalo included. Build something new and fresh. I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

This is the mindset that cost us so many treasures, and almost cost us losing all of Playhouse Square to the wrecking ball. If you destroy your history, what do you have as a place? It’s not like we have a shortage of buildable lots DT. 

I don't disagree, but Playhouse Square was beautiful even in disrepair. Similarly, the John Hartness complex and the Cleveland Athletic Club are beautiful big buildings that needed to be saved... this block of small buildings, imho, is not exactly a treasure (architecturally speaking). Again, to drive home my point, if someone proposed demo'ing the Rockefeller building to make way for something new, I would be up in arms. Here... whatever. I am just curious as to why many on this thread are upset about this.

 

Just offering a perspective I am sure is not all that uncommon. I am embarrassed when I take clients/visitors past that stretch. 

Why debate over buildings like that?  

Sometimes it is not the architectural significance of individual buildings that people seek to save, but rather the architectural fabric of many buildings working together that people seek to save. Economics make it difficult to rebuild the small buildings that we see on prospect because they do not make financial sense. If demolished, we are likely to be left with a vacant lot for a long time (see jacob's lot for reference) and that means downtown would have more surface parking lots--which are not fun to walk by.

 

Likewise, historic buildings are typically easier to repair and at lower costs than new construction (if historic buildings have been kept to a basic level of maintenance). These older buildings provide smaller, cheaper spaces for start-up businesses or more affordable apartments than new construction.

 

To take your example of the Rockefeller building...it is a gorgeous building in and of itself; however, over time we have destroyed the fabric of streets around it. It sits within a giant parking area that hasn't been built on for decades. It has become largely an island that is not fun to walk to. If the rockefeller building had the historic fabric around it, then it would be in the midst of a series of structures that would make walking around more enjoyable.

Agree 100%. Destroying buildings all around the ones you like, makes everything an eyesore. Fabric is the key word. 

1 hour ago, jfristik said:

Gang... as one of the younger people that follows these forums, why on earth are you all worked up against the demolition of that dilapidated eyesore. Level the whole block, Harry Buffalo included. Build something new and fresh. I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

 

Welcome to a city with 0 character in that case. 

 

Unless we are getting super modern/futuristic archeticture that you can find in Hong Kong/Singapore/Dubai etc you will end up with a 21st Century modern glass box that adds 0 character whatsoever. This is soul sucking for a city.

3 hours ago, jfristik said:

I don't disagree, but Playhouse Square was beautiful even in disrepair. Similarly, the John Hartness complex and the Cleveland Athletic Club are beautiful big buildings that needed to be saved... this block of small buildings, imho, is not exactly a treasure (architecturally speaking). Again, to drive home my point, if someone proposed demo'ing the Rockefeller building to make way for something new, I would be up in arms. Here... whatever. I am just curious as to why many on this thread are upset about this.

 

Just offering a perspective I am sure is not all that uncommon. I am embarrassed when I take clients/visitors past that stretch. 

 

I don't think you're referring to the right building.  Only one building is being demolished (other than the parking garage,) and it's across the site from Harry Buffalo and not part of a dilapidated stretch.  In fact, the building itself isn't even vacant.

 

If it was being demolished with a plan in place for something new, that would be one thing.  But it seems as if it's being demolished for no real purpose.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Nucleus extends that far east along Prospect.  I still haven't heard a reason for this building to be demolished, other than to create a new surface lot next to Nucleus for some reason.

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

4 hours ago, WhatUp said:

This 2 story building and the large parking garage behind it will be demolished for Nucleus

 

This building below is on a different block is also endangered, but for reasons not made clear (for active construction parking for Nucleus/possible phase 2) The second pic is the building people are more upset about because it doesn't need to be torn down for the Nucleus project. 

 

Now we should all be on the same page...?

 

So that's potentially a crap ton of new parking for a surface lot when those buildings get demolished.

 

I hope this isn't a bait and switch where the developer planned phase 1 is not actually phase 2 and the real 'phase 1" is to demo the buildings, create more surface parking and collect revenue from surface parking for another 10 - 15 years till the time and economic conditions become, "right" for the real phase 1 to begin...

 

Regardless Cleveland has quite a bit of urban fabric wholes where they really shouldn't be touching any more of their historic stock. So much was already torn down in Cleveland yesteryears..why demolish more when so many damn surface lots exist. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

I don't think you're referring to the right building.  Only one building is being demolished (other than the parking garage,) and it's across the site from Harry Buffalo and not part of a dilapidated stretch.  In fact, the building itself isn't even vacant.

 

If it was being demolished with a plan in place for something new, that would be one thing.  But it seems as if it's being demolished for no real purpose.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Nucleus extends that far east along Prospect.  I still haven't heard a reason for this building to be demolished, other than to create a new surface lot next to Nucleus for some reason.

In his recent blog about Nucleus @KJP indicated that the Herold Building is slated for demo along with garage and that small building which is just about across the street from Red Steakhouse.  Herold Building is next door to the parking lot at the southwest corner of Prospect and East 4th.  About 5 years ago the owners (from California wanted to demo it and the city fought it tooth and nail in housing court (with the city winning at every turn) and they eventually sold it to Stark.  Stark has apparently done nothing to shore up the building since and according to the blog is seeking to demo it now.

OK, I see that I was wrong about which building everyone is talking about.  I forgot that Nucleus does include the land that the parking garage and building housing Nick's sit on.

 

My comment still holds for the Herold Building, though.  Why tear something down with no plans for what to do with the property?

5 hours ago, marty15 said:

This could be said about a good chunk of buildings in Cleveland. Glad some people saved them for a better day. How long has the JHB complex been an eyesore? Sure glad that didn’t get demo’d. Same goes for Herold.

That’s a good point I wasn’t thinking about.  However, if nuCLEus leases like the Beacon is preleasing (we know it’s already doing well for retail and commercial), then a future phase probably isn’t that far fetched.

14 hours ago, jfristik said:

I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

 

This atrocity?

16 hours ago, jfristik said:

I don't disagree, but Playhouse Square was beautiful even in disrepair. Similarly, the John Hartness complex and the Cleveland Athletic Club are beautiful big buildings that needed to be saved... this block of small buildings, imho, is not exactly a treasure (architecturally speaking). Again, to drive home my point, if someone proposed demo'ing the Rockefeller building to make way for something new, I would be up in arms. Here... whatever. I am just curious as to why many on this thread are upset about this.

 

Just offering a perspective I am sure is not all that uncommon. I am embarrassed when I take clients/visitors past that stretch. 

 

Couldn't disagree more - what a shortsighted, ill-informed perspective. Approaching this from a strictly architectural viewpoint falls short of exactly why historic preservation matters. The building abuts the original Rendevous Records, literally the entire reason Cleveland landed the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame. This stretch of historically significant buildings played an important part in Cleveland's history and beyond, and is exactly why we need more developers who will embrace this as an ASSET to be elevated in their work. E.g., it would be an awesome redevelopment opportunity to do in conjunction with the Rock Hall (e.g. an extension exhibit).

 

Do your research and it would be less embarrassing:

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2017/07/record_rendezvous_cleveland_cr.html

 

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by ASP1984

You need a check in forum manners.

 

Not embarrassed in the least bit. I know what the building housed and I do not care that it was Rendevous Records.

 

It is a dilapidated eyesore that I will not miss. I can have my opinions and you can have yours... Neither of us is alone in our opinions.  

17 hours ago, jfristik said:

Gang... as one of the younger people that follows these forums, why on earth are you all worked up against the demolition of that dilapidated eyesore. Level the whole block, Harry Buffalo included. Build something new and fresh. I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

 

*SMH*

 

Also, do you need glasses? Surface lots exist all over this City. That's something to be embarrassed about. But the Harry Buffalo? For real? Now you just sound ridiculous. If you want to live in a sterile place without varied building stock or historic character, feel free to move elsewhere. Plenty of places will have you.

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by ASP1984

Just now, jfristik said:

You need a check in forum manners.

 

Not embarrassed in the least bit. I know what the building housed and I do not care that it was Rendevous Records.

 

It is a dilapidated eyesore that I will not miss. I can have my opinions and you can have yours... Neither of us is alone in our opinions.  

 

You do realize it's a dilapidated eyesore because lack of care made it become this way.. right?

 

This eyesore can easily be restored if someone truly wanted to.

So these demo's wont be redeveloped even? Building on surface lot to make more surface lot is self defeating at the least.

16 hours ago, jfristik said:

Gang... as one of the younger people that follows these forums, why on earth are you all worked up against the demolition of that dilapidated eyesore. Level the whole block, Harry Buffalo included. Build something new and fresh. I liked that one proposal that was circulated a few years back. 

 

I suggest a trip to Europe, where despite 2 world wars that destroyed much of the continent, the continued concern for historical preservation has given us all the gift of aesthetically pleasing cities. 

troeros - We are in agreement. 

 

It's a dilapidated eyesore because no one wants it. 

 

I have not advocated demo'ing the buildings for decades of parking lots in any of my posts... I am not upset if they demo it and then build something that actually uses the space. 

 

Apparently that really works this forum up...

38 minutes ago, jfristik said:

Apparently that really works this forum up...

 

Can you blame us. Name one building that was demoed on upper Prospect, in the past ~50 years that inst a parking lot or garage today. 

I guess my question is whether the city will fight demolition as vigorously as they did five years ago when the California group had ownership or whether things have changed now that Stark is the owner and he is building a 350 mil development across the street

for clarification, is this a demo solely for the sake of construction parking and staging, or is a phase II currently in the early-stages (i.e., not public) based on the response to phase I? seems like there is plenty of space for parking and staging without demo'ing the building... so why even incur that expense?

2 hours ago, jfristik said:

for clarification, is this a demo solely for the sake of construction parking and staging, or is a phase II currently in the early-stages (i.e., not public) based on the response to phase I? seems like there is plenty of space for parking and staging without demo'ing the building... so why even incur that expense?

In 67 pages of discussion I have never heard talk of a phase 2 at all let alone in that area.  My gut is that Stark just doesn't want to be bothered with a building that is in serious disrepair, although that is pure speculation on my part.  Again, I think it is ironic that the whole Nucleus project was born out of the dispute the city was having with the California investors and now we may be back to square one with the Herold Building.  I always thought it strange during the last 5 years that Stark never discussed plans for the Herold Building and the parking lot next to it as it related to the project.

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by Htsguy

He had the building for sale recently but wanted more than what any reasonable development could swallow for a land purchase price. Ideally this thing would be rehabbed into condos or apartment with ground floor retail (what a concept). But anyone paying the $1.5 million he wanted for it would need to make it a high end product, yet would have no parking. Unfortunately that doesn't work here.

12 minutes ago, w28th said:

He had the building for sale recently but wanted more than what any reasonable development could swallow for a land purchase price. Ideally this thing would be rehabbed into condos or apartment with ground floor retail (what a concept). But anyone paying the $1.5 million he wanted for it would need to make it a high end product, yet would have no parking. Unfortunately that doesn't work here.

Thanks for the information.   Any idea what a reasonable purchase price might be in order to fulfill your ideal concept?  I am sure there are structural issues.

There’s NEVER been talk of a phase 2. EVER. We’ll be trading parking lots. 

On 7/12/2019 at 5:56 PM, KJP said:

 

FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2019

Demolition for NuCLEus to start by mid-August

 

Two sources confirm that demolition is slated to begin by mid-August for the nuCLEus development in downtown Cleveland. While there is no news yet of a groundbreaking date for the $354 million development led by Stark Enterprises, most signals appear to be green for building the mixed-use project. But there are still some yellow signals, too.

NuCLEus will feature two 24-story towers, one with offices and the other with residential built atop a pedestal of parking and retail.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/07/demolition-for-nucleus-to-start-by-mid.html

Does anyone know if the clothing store has moved to make way for a Mid-August Demolition?

5 hours ago, simplythis said:

Does anyone know if the clothing store has moved to make way for a Mid-August Demolition?

 

Not yet. When Ezra Stark returned my phone call about the Realife tower, I asked him about the possibility of starting demolition for nuCLEus in August. He had no comment, but then apologized for it saying that the city politics were delicate and he wanted to tread carefully.

 

I thought that was an interesting addendum. Does that mean he is still interested in the $12 million city loan? Or does Mr. Albert's Men's World owner Ike Simmons have some political connections he is trying to massage? It was a brief phone call and Stark wasn't chatty.

Edited August 2, 20195 yr by KJP

We’ve gotten way off topic here. I know there are aspects of this project people don’t like- and the fact that it’s half the height it was isn’t ideal. But the fact is this is plugging a huge hole, is adding retail, and adding some real nice density to an area otherwise void of life! I think overall it’s going to be a great project and if it truly starts within the next few weeks I for one will be really happy. 

Edited August 3, 20195 yr by mrclifton88

is there any updates on the Herold Bldg demolition, Clothing store move-out and the parking garage demolition?

Yesterday I looked for demolition permits online, but couldn't find any. I was also told that Mr. Albert's Men's World was having a "Mega Blowout Sale" so I went over there and took a picture of the sign (along with the Herold Building) before going into the store to ask the man behind the counter if the sale meant they were closing soon and if the building was to be demolished soon. He looked at me like I was from outer space and said "I don't know anything about that."

 

Edited August 10, 20195 yr by KJP

@KJP leaving Mr Albert’s

2 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

@KJP leaving Mr Albert’s

Pimp outfit...but no answers! 

Thanks for the detective work KJP..(so much for an August groundbreaking ?)  

25 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

@KJP leaving Mr Albert’s

I do hope Mr. Albert’s finds a new home.  Cleveland staple much like Norton’s Furniture.

37 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

 

Thanks for the detective work KJP..(so much for an August groundbreaking ?)  

 

An August groundbreaking didn't look likely. But August demolitions are still quite possible, even if Mr. Albert's is the last structure to go.

Employees are often the last to know. The owner of the business, can’t remember his name, may have been told. Or maybe August isn’t the timeline anymore.