6 hours ago, w28th said:

Employees are often the last to know. The owner of the business, can’t remember his name, may have been told. Or maybe August isn’t the timeline anymore.

 

Ike Simmons. It should be noted that he is only the owner of the business not of the property. The Stark+J-Dek partnership owns the property and Simmons is the tenant who has a lease. I'm not aware of the lease terms.

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by KJP

13 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Ike Simmons. It should be noted that he is only the owner of the business not of the property. The Stark+J-Dek partnership owns the property and Simmons is the tenant who has a lease. I'm not aware of the lease terms.

"May" have been told???  How crazy it would be if the owner of Albert's weren't told....  I always refrain from mentioning to an employee anything about a business closing - even though I'm often hungry for more news - unless it's been well publicized.  I've been seeing about that building here but have no idea where else it might be written about.  Are you saying all the demolition is supposed to take place soon  - every building that's supposed to go?  The Mr. Albert's building may be last and not for a while.  I too peeked in there on Friday.  It's the ultimate of what used to be in that vicinity and the last of its type.  "Colorful" is quite an understatement in describing its overall ambience. They've had big sale signs as long as I can remember, and I go back many years.  In fact, weren't they on the north side of Prospect?

As for hat stores, was there a men's hat store right on East Fourth?  I don't recall it.  Prospect had Mike the Hatter and The Made Hatter, which at one time had two shops simultaneously.  The widow of the founder was forced out by the building owner, unfortunately, but Mike the Hatter is in Broadview Heights, near the Parma border on Broadview Road.  I've been there many times.  It's by far the best men's hat store left in Greater Cleveland  (though there are currently still a few others) - a lot like Meyer the Hatter in New Orleans, which claims to be "the largest hat store in the South."

On 8/10/2019 at 3:14 PM, Sapper Daddy said:

I do hope Mr. Albert’s finds a new home.  Cleveland staple much like Norton’s Furniture.

This is great! I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. It is Mr. Albert's exactly as I remember it 30 years ago.

According to the Pittsburgh Gazette, Stark has a $63M project in downtown Pittsburgh called Smith & Fifth that's greenlighted. With the Beacon wrapping up and Nucleus still in a holding pattern, are they spreading themselves too thin?

23 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

According to the Pittsburgh Gazette, Stark has a $63M project in downtown Pittsburgh called Smith & Fifth that's greenlighted. With the Beacon wrapping up and Nucleus still in a holding pattern, are they spreading themselves too thin?

They only have four projects in development according to their website: Beacon, NuCLEus, Solstice (low-rise development in California), and Smith & Fifth (previously The Icon) redevelopment. I know Stark Enterprises is somewhat on the smaller-side, but I can't imagine 3 projects (not counting Beacon since it's almost done)  would be considered "spreading themselves thin"... but maybe I'm wrong

A few months ago Starks was pushing to build an apartment tower on top of a parking deck or two in Cuyahoga Falls in the newly redeveloped Front st.  I believe he was asking for a 30 year abatement which quickly fell on deaf ears. He completed the updated State road shopping center now Portage Crossings a few years ago. 

   With his wheelhouse really shopping centers I would think these developments would be much more challenging with a different marketing strategy and different construction methods. 

   

1 hour ago, Geowizical said:

They only have four projects in development according to their website: Beacon, NuCLEus, Solstice (low-rise development in California), and Smith & Fifth (previously The Icon) redevelopment. I know Stark Enterprises is somewhat on the smaller-side, but I can't imagine 3 projects (not counting Beacon since it's almost done)  would be considered "spreading themselves thin"... but maybe I'm wrong

For Nucleus to be such an "iconic" development in their hometown, given the dramatic revisions, starts-stops and ongoing financing/development/construction issues, I simply wonder if they shouldn't get the Nucleus project moving before tackling projects in other cities like Pittsburgh.

9 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

 

I don’t buy that for a second!  BUT, if true, you’ve got the scoop (errr...bite? ?) of the decade, @ASPhotoman

 

Great photos and tour. Honestly looks good and SO glad to finally see an apartment project in Cleveland without carpet. Impressions bode well for what we can expect for NuCLEus. Certainly...thinking different ?

 

A "fruit store" @ASPhotoman ?? What, you mean a West Elm store or maybe a Pottery Barn?? ((ducks-n-covers))

 

An Apple store would be amazing if true.

On 8/12/2019 at 9:41 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

For Nucleus to be such an "iconic" development in their hometown, given the dramatic revisions, starts-stops and ongoing financing/development/construction issues, I simply wonder if they shouldn't get the Nucleus project moving before tackling projects in other cities like Pittsburgh.

 

My understanding is that it really is all in the financing and what they want/need in terms of ROI. I think NuCLEus has really put them through their paces (and still is) being that it's undergoing another pretty substantial revision due to budget and financing skyrocketing on them. My guess is the resource drain has pushed them to look at cities that may be more friendly in asking for the kickbacks and abatements for projects to get some capital rolling again while still working through the "iconic" projects.

@KJP, while I am sure he would not come right out in say it, after a few conversations with Ezra Stark does your spidey sense give you the feeling that he might glance at this thread every once in a while.  If he does, I am sure knowing what he does, he gets a few good laughs from it.

Problem is, I don't have good "spidey" sense of what someone is saying or inferring unless I am in the physical presence of that person. I can read body language pretty well, but when someone says something over the phone or in e-mail, I often take them literally unless their tone of voice oozes sarcasm. While I don't assume someone is telling me the truth, I will quote them as such. So when Stark told me that he wasn't having conversations about selling his company's land at St. Clair and West 9th, I wrote that in my blog just as he said it.

 

(BTW, just because I'm not interested in playing word games with people, doesn't mean I don't know how to use them to disguise message from my own keyboard! ? ).

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

A "fruit store" @ASPhotoman ?? What, you mean a West Elm store or maybe a Pottery Barn?? ((ducks-n-covers))

 

An Apple store would be amazing if true.

Were getting a Blackberry Store?!! ???

To me an Apple Store coming to NuCLEus would jump start national retailers coming downtown. Apple is VERY selective on where they place their stores so if they pick your location they see potential. A more realistic and possibly better location would be JHB, right next to the busy East 9th intersection and it's actually under construction?

3 hours ago, DevolsDance said:

 

My understanding is that it really is all in the financing and what they want/need in terms of ROI. I think NuCLEus has really put them through their paces (and still is) being that it's undergoing another pretty substantial revision due to budget and financing skyrocketing on them. My guess is the resource drain has pushed them to look at cities that may be more friendly in asking for the kickbacks and abatements for projects to get some capital rolling again while still working through the "iconic" projects.

What does this mean for the future of the Nucleus project?  Weren't they planning to break ground this month?

3 hours ago, DevolsDance said:

 

My understanding is that it really is all in the financing and what they want/need in terms of ROI. I think NuCLEus has really put them through their paces (and still is) being that it's undergoing another pretty substantial revision due to budget and financing skyrocketing on them. My guess is the resource drain has pushed them to look at cities that may be more friendly in asking for the kickbacks and abatements for projects to get some capital rolling again while still working through the "iconic" projects.

 

I'm now hearing some bad news about this project. I hope to get more information soon.

29 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I'm now hearing some bad news about this project. I hope to get more information soon.

So disappointing. I’m realizing once again that even very cautious optimism about this particular project may be misplaced. I hope they somehow prove me wrong. But it may be time for me to get off the emotional  rollercoaster for awhile  ?

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by CCC

Did anybody else take notice of the NEWS yesterday? Particularly the BLARING HEADLINE on the FRONT PAGE of the PLAIN DEALER ... It reads about a potentially looming RECESSION!!!!

 

I am wondering how much this will create jitters amongst financiers and developers alike, potentially STOPPING the nuCLEus project, and even a possible skyscraper for Sherwin-Williams at Public Square.

 

I'm generally an optimistic person, but I also consider myself to be a realist, too.

 

It seems we are always such long sufferers in Cleveland and in a perpetual state of limbo.

 

Let's hope that no bad news is in the offing ....

 

???

38 minutes ago, CCC said:

So disappointing. I’m realizing once again that even very cautious optimism about this particular project may be misplaced. I hope they somehow prove me wrong. But it may be time for me to get off the emotional  rollercoaster for awhile  ?

Very disheartening news, but with the revisions, neverending financing issues and delays, it's not surprising.  I hope it all works out. It would have represented a great addition in an area desperately in need of development for four decades.

In some ways if the "R" word is true and stalling the project, I'm glad they didn't get further along.  I'd hate to be stuck with "Stark's Erection" outside the arena for a decade or two!   Likewise I'd rather not see any further surface lots created if it's not going to happen....

2 hours ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

Did anybody else take notice of the NEWS yesterday? Particularly the BLARING HEADLINE on the FRONT PAGE of the PLAIN DEALER ... It reads about a potentially looming RECESSION!!!!

 

I am wondering how much this will create jitters amongst financiers and developers alike, potentially STOPPING the nuCLEus project, and even a possible skyscraper for Sherwin-Williams at Public Square.

 

I'm generally an optimistic person, but I also consider myself to be a realist, too.

 

It seems we are always such long sufferers in Cleveland and in a perpetual state of limbo.

 

Let's hope that no bad news is in the offing ....

 

???

Sadly, if a recession is around the corner I cannot see any of these projects started - Nucleus, City Club, FEB3, Geis, SHW. We Need to get these Projects

Started before the recession hits. If the recession starts they are not happening. We have been there over & over. Let us remember that this is Cleveland.

Every Recession that we have hits us harder than almost all the other cities in the country & it takes us longer to recover & come out of a recession than

almost all cities. WE Need to get as many of these projects as possible started.

19 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Sadly, if a recession is around the corner I cannot see any of these projects started - Nucleus, City Club, FEB3, Geis, SHW. We Need to get these Projects

Started before the recession hits. If the recession starts they are not happening. We have been there over & over. Let us remember that this is Cleveland.

Every Recession that we have hits us harder than almost all the other cities in the country & it takes us longer to recover & come out of a recession than

almost all cities. WE Need to get as many of these projects as possible started.

While I agree with most of this, I do believe we are better built for a recession that in years past. Our economy isn’t as dependent on manufacturing and is overall more diversified. 

As much as it is troubling to think about potential recession, it's like you guys hate new things. This is a blast better than the original. I mean stark just built a really cool proving grounds with the Beacon. To get mad at him for not building it fast enough, or it's not what you wanted, now that's just ignorance, It's not even his fault. People spit all over 200 Public Square because it's tall, brown, and ugly, but I think it's a great defining feature for Cleveland. Let NuCLEus be another.

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by tastybunns

Stuff still gets built during a recession..

Just now, Clefan98 said:

Stuff still gets built during a recession..

 

The market fundamentals locally haven't changed. In fact they continue to improve. Capital flow to real estate projects here is actually more fluid thanks in part to OZ zones/foreign investment. And, BTW, interest rates are down.

 

There is no logical reason why a project proposed a year or two or five years ago should not be built now. There is actually more reason today.

^Good to hear.

 

And yes, this is Cleveland. But the town isn't run by manufacturing anymore, which takes up less than 12% of the regional economy to my recollection (last time I looked at the numbers). Thats comparable to many other metros nationwide. The economy here is definitely better structured to bounce back from a recession now than it was in 2008 or 2002. 

 

KJP- will you blog about your new info on NuCLEus?

8 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^Good to hear.

 

And yes, this is Cleveland. But the town isn't run by manufacturing anymore, which takes up less than 12% of the regional economy to my recollection (last time I looked at the numbers). Thats comparable to many other metros nationwide. The economy here is definitely better structured to bounce back from a recession now than it was in 2008 or 2002. 

 

KJP- will you blog about your new info on NuCLEus?

 

I don't have enough information to write a blog article about what is happening with this project or, more precisely, what isn't happening. 

Obviously too early to say, but I wonder if this bad news will have an effect on the demolition request before CPC.

 

Edit.... @Mendo answered my Q in the Gateway Forum...

 

 

2 hours ago, Mendo said:

Tabled at design review on Thursday. No telling what happened today at the planning commission.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3284&CASE=DF 2019-064

 

Date: August 15, 2019

Committee: Local Design Review Committee

Action Type: Tabled

Conditions: 

 

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by GISguy

It’s been five years since this project was announced.  Frankly, I’m burnt out.

How could they possibly be having financing issues for this with interest rates where they are and the opp zone funding potential? All of the issues they have had getting what is a relatively modest project at this point off the ground is crazy.  I think the real issue is that stark is a suburban retail developer that decided to do something way out of his league. 

12 hours ago, gg707 said:

How could they possibly be having financing issues for this with interest rates where they are and the opp zone funding potential? All of the issues they have had getting what is a relatively modest project at this point off the ground is crazy.  I think the real issue is that stark is a suburban retail developer that decided to do something way out of his league. 

This takes us back to my earlier posted question. For a 1/3 billion dollar project, in a totally new hometown arena, why wouldn't you focus your available resources on bringing that project to conclusion before venturing into less valuable projects in competing cities? There's also reputation at stake here.

13 hours ago, gg707 said:

How could they possibly be having financing issues for this with interest rates where they are and the opp zone funding potential? All of the issues they have had getting what is a relatively modest project at this point off the ground is crazy.  I think the real issue is that stark is a suburban retail developer that decided to do something way out of his league. 

This takes us back to my earlier posted question. For a 1/3 billion dollar project, in a totally new hometown arena, why wouldn't you focus your available resources on bringing that project to conclusion before venturing into less valuable projects in competing cities? There's also reputation at stake here.

 

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

There's more here than meets the eye. We focus on Stark Enterprises, but what about their partner on this project?

13 hours ago, gg707 said:

How could they possibly be having financing issues for this with interest rates where they are and the opp zone funding potential? All of the issues they have had getting what is a relatively modest project at this point off the ground is crazy.  I think the real issue is that stark is a suburban retail developer that decided to do something way out of his league. 

 

Pesht II

21 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

To me an Apple Store coming to NuCLEus would jump start national retailers coming downtown. Apple is VERY selective on where they place their stores so if they pick your location they see potential. A more realistic and possibly better location would be JHB, right next to the busy East 9th intersection and it's actually under construction?

Please define "JHB."  It's not exactly a household-word acronym, bud.  I've long advocated Apple, OfficeMax, and Barnes & Noble for downtown Cleveland.  The time is ripe; not five years ago but I think they can do well now (in the right spot, of course).

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by lafont

There are reasons, some we know, others we can speculate, that other downtowns of varying size and attraction have had far more cranes in the sky than Cleveland. It's not just Stark being mean to his hometown; its all developers seemingly.

9 minutes ago, lafont said:

Please define "JHB."  It's not exactly a household-word acronym, bud.  I've long advocated Apple, OfficeMax, and Barnes & Noble for downtown Cleveland.  The time is ripe; not five years ago but I think they can do well now (in the right spot, of course).

 

JHB = John Hartness Brown

2 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

JHB = John Hartness Brown

Thanks, though maybe at this point the complex should be known by its new name.

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

There are reasons, some we know, others we can speculate, that other downtowns of varying size and attraction have had far more cranes in the sky than Cleveland. It's not just Stark being mean to his hometown; its all developers seemingly.

 

Until recently, developers needed significant subsidies and creative approaches (like building on top of a massive, paid-for parking deck or having a non-profit organization sponsor what would normally be a for-profit apartment tower) to build new skyscrapers downtown. Now, improving market fundamentals combined with new financing tools (Opportunity Zone, low interest rates, etc) are making it more possible to build in downtown Cleveland and in a few other stable neighborhoods.

 

So I'm aware of developers who have financing in place right now to build some stuff that forumers here will probably love. And yet, they haven't announced anything because they are working with Planning Commission staff to finalize a design so that their project will move through board reviews without any controversies or delays.

 

Then there is Stark, who announced nuCLEus five years ago so that his firm could get all the free advertising it could get.

 

I'm also aware of firms who try to get the basic public incentives (tax abatement, TIF, maybe a couple of loans, etc). Then there are those who milk them for all they're worth, trying to hold the city/county/state hostage, threatening to kill the project if they don't get what they want.

 

I've heard several different theories as to why this project is in trouble. One is the theory that @DevolsDance mentioned yesterday, that Stark thinks it can get more concessions for developments in other cities, and so the firm may be redeploying resources there.

 

Another is that Stark has encountered some push back on demolishing the 310 Prospect building and is prepared to walk away from nuCLEus if the city doesn't approve its demolition request. That is probably what Ezra Stark meant a couple of weeks ago when I asked him about the possibility of starting demolition for nuCLEus in August, and he replied that he couldn't comment because he was working through some touchy political stuff.

 

Just a month ago, Stark hired Cleveland Construction to begin building nuCLEus and all indications were that Stark was close enough on its financing to get going. So we shall see. This could all be a negotiating ploy to get the city to approve its demolition requests.

^I know I keep saying this over and over but I find it ironic that the demolition of 310 Prospect is/maybe an obstacle to commencing the Nucleus project when the fight over its demolition by out of state investors more than five years ago triggered Stark's property purchases and then the subsequent announcing of this "huge" development more or less out of nowhere.  At that time we viewed Stark has the savoir of 310 and showered him with praise for it.

I'm a pretty strict preservationist and I'm perfectly happy with losing 310 if it would lead right to NuCLEus going up(ASAP).  The bldg. that houses Record Rendezvous I'd have a lot of qualms about, but I'd sure like to see it fixed up.

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by lafont

I can't imagine that not getting demolition approval for 310 Prospect would be a reason to cancel, or even hold up NuCLEus.  It isn't even on the footprint of the project.  I can see him using it as an excuse, though- "See, City of Cleveland isn't developer friendly!"  But the real reason will probably be some sort level of organizational incompetence, since this keeps happening with them.

Record Rendezvous goes NO WHERE. That's history this town can't let be demolished. 

 

I'm hoping the project can move forward without the demo which in my view seems unnecessary. A parking garage is already part of the project. Theres no need for yet another surface lot on Prospect.

 

The only purpose I can see for the lot would be for equipment staging during constructio, but that's a reach as well.

My question is....if this project falls thru....Does Stark just sit on the parking lot and garage and collect the revenues and never develop it??

7 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

The only purpose I can see for the lot would be for equipment staging during constructio, but that's a reach as well.

 

That's why it's proposed to be demolished. 310 Prospect was condemned by the city several years ago, hence the red X sign on the building's front.

 

Just now, mack34 said:

My question is....if this project falls thru....Does Stark just sit on the parking lot and garage and collect the revenues and never develop it??

 

Doubtful. If Stark does kill it, the property will probably be sold by Stark, as it is doing with its other parking crater downtown.

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by KJP

55 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That's why it's proposed to be demolished. 310 Prospect was condemned by the city several years ago, hence the red X sign on the building's front.

 

 

Doubtful. If Stark does kill it, the property will probably be sold by Stark, as it is doing with its other parking crater downtown.

Is the W. 3 Parking crater being sold to Reallife?

13 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Is the W. 3 Parking crater being sold to Reallife?

 

No, the next one west.

This is disturbing. I've heard the reasons why nuCLEus, and other projects, are in jeopardy. While nuCLEus has many problems with it, one common problem among projects appears to be the mayor's office (aka Doktor Valarie McCall) which is moving the goal line farther on the public financing pieces for this project and others including a certain big project in Ohio City.

24 minutes ago, KJP said:

This is disturbing. I've heard the reasons why nuCLEus, and other projects, are in jeopardy. While nuCLEus has many problems with it, one common problem among projects appears to be the mayor's office (aka Doktor Valarie McCall) which is moving the goal line farther on the public financing pieces for this project and others including a certain big project in Ohio City.

This is very unfortunate. It is situations such as this and those self-serving individuals that create so much discord in the community. Unfortunately the inability and unwillingness of elected officials to move the city and region forward is what contributes to the regional population exodus.

20 hours ago, KJP said:

This is disturbing. I've heard the reasons why nuCLEus, and other projects, are in jeopardy. While nuCLEus has many problems with it, one common problem among projects appears to be the mayor's office (aka Doktor Valarie McCall) which is moving the goal line farther on the public financing pieces for this project and others including a certain big project in Ohio City.

 

Would anyone go on record so you can write about it? 

2 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Would anyone go on record so you can write about it? 

 

No, but that's never stopped me before. ? I do have Ezra Stark's comment, which makes increasingly more sense the more learn about what happened and what's happening. BTW, Stark isn't necessarily a victim here.