If she messes up the Market Square development my head will explode with rage

^At least not publicly, the Market Square development hasn't been asking for the mountains of bespoke subsidies and tax breaks, which is what makes Stark so dependent on a fully compliant city hall. I hope NuCLEus happens, but I'm also going to withhold judgment till (and if) I hear more about the particulars here.

Why is it that some cities are competent at getting things done, while others are not? 

Cooperation between the local government(s), the local civic communities and corporate leadership are critical to improving the quality of life for all inhabitants.

None of us want to live (or even drive through) poverty, seedy neighborhoods, blight and squalor. We all want a clean, safe environment for our families and friends.

Lower Prospect Avenue has needed redevelopment since the 1960's.

It is inexcusable that City Hall and Stark are unable to get this project across the finish line!

17 minutes ago, StapHanger said:

^At least not publicly, the Market Square development hasn't been asking for the mountains of bespoke subsidies and tax breaks, which is what makes Stark so dependent on a fully compliant city hall. I hope NuCLEus happens, but I'm also going to withhold judgment till (and if) I hear more about the particulars here.

The Market Square people put up a great sign for all to see.  That's exactly what I'd like to see everywhere when developments are in the offing!  Now, I hope the shopping strip gets cleared out soon....

5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Why is it that some cities are competent at getting things done, while others are not? 

Cooperation between the local government(s), the local civic communities and corporate leadership are critical to improving the quality of life for all inhabitants.

None of us want to live (or even drive through) poverty, seedy neighborhoods, blight and squalor. We all want a clean, safe environment for our families and friends.

Lower Prospect Avenue has needed redevelopment since the 1960's.

It is inexcusable that City Hall and Stark are unable to get this project across the finish line!

 

Let's start with the COO for the City of Cleveland is a former meter reader.   I'm not against opportunities for anyone working their way up from the bottom,  but this position in particular illustrates the cronyism that is rampant in city ranks.   

 

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/Government/Cabinet/DBrown

11 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

You have some flawed assumptions here.  Some local politicians want and like exactly what you say you don't like.  It ensures their power base.  Do you think that the Ken Johnson's of Cleveland could survive politically if their wards became prosperous?

 

The is why Cleveland desperately needs a  different type of leadership.

There's nothing flawed about my assumptions. It further emphasizes my previous comments about self-serving interests and why some cities can accomplish great things, while others cannot.

If such is the case, and counter to what most people would prefer, I certainly don't need to tell you what to expect for outcomes. I think you're seeing it.

 

TUESDAY, AUGUST 20, 2019

NuCLEus development stalls -- again?

 

Sources at two companies that do business with Stark Enterprises say that the $350 million nuCLEus development in downtown Cleveland isn't going to be moving forward anytime soon.

One source says the project is on hold. The other says the project is dead. The reason why the project apparently has stalled isn't completely clear.

However, according to one rumor, it appears that there may be differences of opinion between the city and Stark as to how helpful one has been to the other. Some of that was suggested by recent events.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/08/nucleus-development-stalls-again.html

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 20195 yr by KJP

What a circus...

Hard for me to feel sympathetic for Stark. This has been going on for 5 years.

Stark is a mess.

I do not trust Stark to get this done. I'll believe it is solely a city issue if you tell me that they are stalling the Market Square project as well for the same reason. This sounds like a Stark issue. Give it to Geis. He'll get it done.

1 minute ago, Sir2geez said:

Hard for me to feel sympathetic for Stark. This has been going on for 5 years.

Normally I would say I wasn't sure who was the more dysfunctional party- the city or Stark... but I trust Kerry McCormack and his comments give legitimacy to the argument that this is Stark.

29 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Normally I would say I wasn't sure who was the more dysfunctional party- the city or Stark... but I trust Kerry McCormack and his comments give legitimacy to the argument that this is Stark.

 

It's Stark, look at everything else getting built in the city.

Edited August 20, 20195 yr by Clefan98

Thanks for the good reporting job @KJP

Can't wait until he announces the next, next groundbreaking

Yeah that’s disheartening (but not surprising) to hear and as much as I loathe the new site plan for NuCLEUs this news stinks.

nice reporting as usual KJP

I will never understand why it is so difficult to develop these parking lots in this city. It's honestly incredible. This region is so enamored by further sprawl development over actually improving this city. I never see this with our Midwestern counterparts.

1 minute ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I will never understand why it is so difficult to develop these parking lots in this city. It's honestly incredible. This region is so enamored by further sprawl development over actually improving this city. I never see this with our Midwestern counterparts.

 

I’m not sure if this is a city issue. Like someone said upthread, other stuff is being built. 

This is really bad news.

 

BTW how is SB39 doing?   it passed on the one of the levels.

I don't know about the other.

While a noble gesture, I think this project is beyond Stark's resources, experience and expertise.

1 hour ago, simplythis said:

This is really bad news.

 

BTW how is SB39 doing?   it passed on the one of the levels.

I don't know about the other.

 

It's sitting in the House committee right now.  I don't have any information on how soon it will be considered, although probably movement would happen in September if it is actually going to get passed this time around.

 

17 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I will never understand why it is so difficult to develop these parking lots in this city. It's honestly incredible. This region is so enamored by further sprawl development over actually improving this city. I never see this with our Midwestern counterparts.

 

The city needs to change its tax policy and tax land value more and improvements less.  As I've said before, until tax policy makes surface parking less of an economic grand slam, these parking lot cancers will only persist.  Force Stark's hand!  Pittsburgh and Denver did this with great success.  Cleveland needs to get it's head out of the sand and grow up.  I've written Councilman McCormack about this and he's aware of the issue.  Residents need to keep raising these issues with city government.  The parking lot lobby is strong and well-organized (they have a lot of money at stake).  I'd encourage everyone to write/call/email about this issue.  

18 minutes ago, NYC Boomerang said:

The city needs to change its tax policy and tax land value more and improvements less.  As I've said before, until tax policy makes surface parking less of an economic grand slam, these parking lot cancers will only persist.  Force Stark's hand!  Pittsburgh and Denver did this with great success.  Cleveland needs to get it's head out of the sand and grow up.  I've written Councilman McCormack about this and he's aware of the issue.  Residents need to keep raising these issues with city government.  The parking lot lobby is strong and well-organized (they have a lot of money at stake).  I'd encourage everyone to write/call/email about this issue.  

 

I couldn't agree more. It would also even out the disparity of property taxes for houses in the same neighborhood. The current system discourages putting money in your property. Given the number of rentals on the market there's a disproportionate number of houses paying relatively little tax.

 

The house next door to us is a 3 unit rental and pays about half the property tax we do. It's a complete crapbox and probably mints money for the landlord.

It’s hard not to get the feeling that Stark has been moving the goalposts in negotiations with the city ever since the original Nucleus proposal died. It’s almost as if he just wasn’t all in on the scaled down Nucleus. And like the kid who doesn’t get his way,  instead of closing the deal that was supposedly very close here, he’s taking his toys to play elsewhere- in Pittsburgh, apparently. So much for the great proponent  of Cleveland. But I’m sure there’s blame enough to go around to city leadership. Taking KJP’s report at face value, the project is either dead or on another extensive hold - and love it or not love it, Nucleus would’ve been a continuation of the hot construction trend we’ve seen downtown. It would’ve greatly infused a high visibility area poised to become much more dynamic. City leadership and Stark should’ve worked harder to bring this to the finish line. If it is dead, it’s a major loss for Cleveland. 

3 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

I couldn't agree more. It would also even out the disparity of property taxes for houses in the same neighborhood. The current system discourages putting money in your property. Given the number of rentals on the market there's a disproportionate number of houses paying relatively little tax.

 

The house next door to us is a 3 unit rental and pays about half the property tax we do. It's a complete crapbox and probably mints money for the landlord.

Not to derail this thread further, but the city also needs to step up its code-enforcement game.   That crapbox next to you might get better if the city actually enforced housing codes and forced the owner to comply.  

 

Mayor Jackson promised increased services with his tax hike last year.  So far the only thing I've seen is a street sweeper come through (something that should have already been budgeted for).    

I think we can all now agree on something:  no groundbreaking in August and not even one demolition on Prospect!

This project is in real trouble.

 

It's so unfortunate because that area across from RMF could be a gold mine for a savvy developer and has been in desperate need of redevelopment for a half-century.

 

Stark should sell the property to Dan Gilbert. He'll get it across the goal line.

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

This project is in real trouble.

 

It's so unfortunate because that area across from RMF could be a gold mine for a savvy developer and has been in desperate need of redevelopment for a half-century.

 

Stark should sell the property to Dan Gilbert. He'll get it across the goal line.

Or possibly there just isn't demand to justify financing. Let's face it, this region as a whole is stagnant and Cleveland itself is shrinking. The city is saturated with apartments all over downtown. If businesses and people wanted to live and work downtown like we are told, why is it so difficult to build something downtown, where there are endless and endless undeveloped parking lot?.

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by AsDustinFoxWouldSay

4 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Or possibly there just isn't demand to justify financing. Let's face it, this region as a whole is stagnant and Cleveland itself is shrinking. The city is saturated with apartments all over downtown. If businesses and people wanted to live and work downtown like we are told, why is it so difficult to build something downtown, where there are endless and endless undeveloped parking lot?.

92% occupancy Q2 2019

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by WindyBuckeye

According to Deemer et al, there's still untapped demand and downtown continues to experience population and job growth. With that being said, this project was originally announced five years ago. 

 

Look at what Gilbert has done in Detroit; a city that has far worse problems than Cleveland.

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

10 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

92% occupancy Q2 2019

 

Don't bother. Some people find discomfort in collecting information that might disrupt their comfortable opinions.

 

Yes, nuCLEus is in trouble, even as other high-rise projects are moving forward and may even be taking financing pledged for nuCLEus. Stark announced this five years ago, long before he should have. He deserves the criticism he's getting here.

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by KJP

Let’s not forget every building from Public Square to Playhouse Square is or has been renovated. The 9 was an empty 29 story building. Now, it’s a hotel and apartments. We have 34 building story building under construction and the 28 story Beacon is wrapping up. 

When I predicted this like 3 years ago everyone said I was just being a downer and too hard on Stark.  The fact is, he talks a much bigger game than he's capable of.

Agreed. Stark is the classic developer who IS able to pull off development of a certain size and cost but he has bigger dreams. Sort of like the 
Wolstein's. They do give us something nice, just aren't able to develop on the scale they aspire to. 

Maybe some  influential person can get the Trump organization to build on this plot as a way to win over a key battleground state.

51 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Don't bother. Some people find discomfort in collecting information that might disrupt their comfortable opinions.

 

Yes, nuCLEus is in trouble, even as other high-rise projects are moving forward and may even be taking financing pledged for nuCLEus. Stark announced this five years ago, long before he should have. He deserves the criticism he's getting here.

Kjp: Do you have any additional news from what you posted last week. Yes we all know this is in trouble. Is it possible to save this project?

Could it be that Stark is waiting on the Transformational Tax bill to pass?

9 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Kjp: Do you have any additional news from what you posted last week. Yes we all know this is in trouble. Is it possible to save this project?

 

I don't know. I'm aware of the financing situations involving other proposed high-rise projects downtown (City Club plus three others yet to be announced) and it's disappointing that Stark/J-Dek is having as much trouble as they are. The game changed dramatically after the OZ program came out, and has been supercharged by the state (see:  https://www.crainscleveland.com/guest-blogger/ohios-new-biennial-budget-bill-makes-opportunity-zones-more-attractive-added-state). With all of the incentives in place now, developers have the ability to pull together $100 million for projects downtown. Two have already pulled together that capital stack (which has larger pieces than in the recent past). I realize Stark/J-Dek's project is much larger at $350 million, so maybe the joint venture needs to divide this project into two or three phases, probably starting with the office component.

31 minutes ago, shack said:

Maybe some  influential person can get the Trump organization to build on this plot as a way to win over a key battleground state.

 

Yeah, I'm sure a controversial Republican with a shady real estate history would be a welcome addition to blue Cleveland.

I think people underestimate how much a project depends on the skills/resources of a developer. That’s why I’ll never doubt that something gets done with 925.

3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

This project is in real trouble.

 

It's so unfortunate because that area across from RMF could be a gold mine for a savvy developer and has been in desperate need of redevelopment for a half-century.

 

Stark should sell the property to Dan Gilbert. He'll get it across the goal line.

RMF = ???

6 minutes ago, lafont said:

RMF = ???

Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse

2 hours ago, marty15 said:

Could it be that Stark is waiting on the Transformational Tax bill to pass?

 

I thought about that too.  Maybe he’s waiting for the House Bill 469(or something similar) to go through so that he can get all the money he needs to build the original 50+ story tower. Maybe?

4 hours ago, shack said:

Maybe some  influential person can get the Trump organization to build on this plot as a way to win over a key battleground state.

 

I dunno shack.   Trump likes to hire contractors with dubious immigration status.   Would you like those kinds round these parts? 

In lieu of what's been happening, if Stark decides to or not, but how often do buildings get scaled back more than once, and how long could he actually wait to phase the project.

If the project is phased, it may provide Stark/J-Dek with the opportunity to do more in the long-term than they are attempting to do in a single project.

4 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse

Thank you.  I haven't absorbed that name yet, let alone any acronym for it.

 

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by lafont

5 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

If the project is phased, it may provide Stark/J-Dek with the opportunity to do more in the long-term than they are attempting to do in a single project.

I hope to god the possibility of phases doesn't include demolition of already existing structures like he had planned before. How criminal.

On 2/8/2016 at 9:43 PM, gottaplan said:

i heard it's not going to happen, at least not this year.  The hotel market is already getting soft in Cleveland after the flurry of hotels that were added recently and the office component is extremely aggressive. 

 

Flats East Bank will be adding a 3rd phase sooner than Nucleus will be ready and Pinecrest will be ready as well - 2 nice new office developments competing for tenants. 

 

Well I was half right - Pinecrest is about 75% leased...