-

 

Edited April 21, 20205 yr by ExPatClevGuy

i did not know that stark had so much coin handy that he bought the ugliest building in the heart of the downtown brooklyn developments zone in 2018:

 

 

 

Recent deals in Downtown Brooklyn include Cleveland-based real estate company Stark Enterprises’ purchase of 30 Flatbush Avenue for $92 million and United American Land’s purchase of a four-story property at 44 Willoughby Street for $11 million.

 

https://therealdeal.com/2018/01/03/long-island-university-planning-476-unit-resi-building-on-dekalb-avenue/

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/30+Flatbush+Ave,+Brooklyn,+NY+11217/@40.6881636,-73.9804954,3a,75y,235.49h,107.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj2OOjN3WkOz5AG3-q5W1qQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c25bb302586f43:0xd4f6af19dfd56448!8m2!3d40.6880577!4d-73.9806417

 

more, i guess he got a $75M loan from cinci great american for it and its the ground lease only -- also they grabbed a car wash lot in los angeles:

https://therealdeal.com/2017/11/15/cleveland-company-acquires-flatbush-ave-ground-lease-for-92m/

Edited April 23, 20205 yr by mrnyc

I couldn't resist.....

 

 

Another new nuCLEus plan is afoot

 

A description of the plan obtained by Crain's Cleveland Business indicates the latest iteration consists of two office towers — one of 24 floors and another of 25 — atop a platform composed of more than 1,300 parking spaces.

 

The phasing McCormack referred to appears to indicate the towers could be built at different times.

 

Although the plan calls for midrise towers — not the 50-floor skyline shakeup that Stark Enterprises founder Bob Stark lofted five years ago — it would remain a massive project for downtown.

 

The current plan incorporates a total of 725,000 square feet of office space and continues to have about 100,000 square feet of retail space, with 80,000 square feet of ground-floor retail facing the surrounding Huron Road, Prospect Avenue and East Fourth Street.

 

MORE:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/another-new-nucleus-plan-afoot

Edited April 24, 20205 yr by KJP

That's interesting. They are betting the market will support a second office tower in a few years over an apartment building? Not sure I'd take that bet. Hope we get to see real renderings soon. It's been a quiet couple months.

I posted real renderings nine days ago. Here's a new article that includes them.....

 

 

FRIDAY, APRIL 24, 2020

How nuCLEus and Herold got their lives back

 

As a follow-up to last week's article in which NEOtrans broke the story about the new nuCLEus and Herold Building plans, there is an an interesting back-story behind the new approach. It all centers on addressing the difficulty of constructing new office buildings in Cleveland.

Granted, putting up office buildings for tenants in Cleveland isn't Mission Impossible. It's more like Get Smart. Titles for those 1960s-era spy TV shows summarize Stark Enterprises' plans for One nuCLEus Place and its "Mini-Me," a renovated/expanded Herold Building.

The reason for creative approaches? Greater Cleveland is the nation's 15th-most expensive metro to build an office building yet the region has the nation's third-cheapest office rents, eclipsed by only Albuquerque and Louisville.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/how-nucleus-and-herold-got-their-lives.html

Edited April 24, 20205 yr by KJP

I mean renderings that show materials, colors and other perspectives. Things that are needed to go through design review.

 

Edited April 24, 20205 yr by Mendo

9 minutes ago, Mendo said:

I mean renderings that show materials, colors and other perspectives. Things that are needed to go through design review.

 

 

Ah, that may be a while. I wouldn't expect to see them until design-review meetings start up again, unfortunately. I get the sense from Stark that they are really champing at the bit to get this version started.

 

Isn't it ironic that, after nearly seven years of proposing variations of a development that was beyond the ability of existing public funding mechanisms to support, that Stark finally comes up with a viable, funded plan and can't move forward on it because of a force majeure like this??

I know this shouldn't surprise me... but is there no effort by anyone at the City to take these things like the Design Committee remote?  Its not that hard.

 

Again I know this shouldn't surprise me.  ?

18 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

I know this shouldn't surprise me... but is there no effort by anyone at the City to take these things like the Design Committee remote?  Its not that hard.

 

Again I know this shouldn't surprise me.  ?

Cleveland Heights is doing it.

1 hour ago, mrclifton88 said:

I know this shouldn't surprise me... but is there no effort by anyone at the City to take these things like the Design Committee remote?  Its not that hard.

 

Again I know this shouldn't surprise me.  ?

My God it’s 2020.....we can teach interactive classes in every public school but we can’t have a design committee meeting? 

^Mid-May for Planning Commission to start remotely

Mid June for Board of Zoning Appeals due to legal issues of swearing in witnesses/stakeholders

There's a program called "Webex."

34 minutes ago, w28th said:

^Mid-May for Planning Commission to start remotely

Mid June for Board of Zoning Appeals due to legal issues of swearing in witnesses/stakeholders

 

Huge

Will the public be able to watch?

5 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Will the public be able to watch?

 

Looks like it. Working on an article.

18 hours ago, KJP said:

“A description of the plan obtained by Crain's Cleveland Business indicates the latest iteration consists of two office towers — one of 24 floors and another of 25 — atop a platform composed of more than 1,300 parking spaces.

 

”The phasing McCormack referred to appears to indicate the towers could be built at different times.”

 

MORE:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/another-new-nucleus-plan-afoot

I'm really glad the Crain’s article explicitly mentions a second tower, even if it is only a future phase. With the foundation and parking requirements already in place, that second tower becomes far more likely than some other new tower in the area. 
 

Of course, all of this news is taken with a large grain of salt. 

Edited April 25, 20205 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Typo

“Rico Pietro, a principal of Cushman & Wakefield Cresco brokerage, said he believes there is an office building play possible in the post-COVID-19 era. Pietro's firm has the listing for nuCLEus, but he declined to discuss Stark's current plans.”

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/another-new-nucleus-plan-afoot

 

Am I reading too much into this or does the Crain’s article reference another office project? (outside of Sherwin-Williams and nuCLEus)

Edited April 25, 20205 yr by Sapper Daddy

^ i just took it as cushman & wakefield is bullish on there being a pent up office market post-corona, but then why wouldn’t they be? that’s their thing. the article went on to tamp that expectation down with their being a 20% occupancy rate for offices even with conversions taking things off the office market. so i would guess residential is more likely for the second building, but who knows at this point?

Unless the second office building is the renovated and expanded Herold Building.

Not sure how to ask this, but what do you think the odds of say a Cheesecake FActory being put into this project?  I would think that Cheesecake would want a downtown location and with the pandemic it might make since to close westlake and move it into the city center?  That would be a hell of an addition i think. 

I do not see a Cheesecake Factory at this location. They have a suburban model of development and there is little reason for them to move a Cheesecake Factory that is working (Crocker) to a newer, riskier development (nucleus) that does not fit their typical development style. Additionally, cheesecake factory is struggling through this current period (not paying their rent) and I don’t imagine they will be taking major risks

(I’m working off the assumption that you are serious about desiring a Cheesecake Factory Downtown)

Cheesecake chose not to pay rent early on as many big chains also did - whether actually cash-strapped or just cautious.

 

Note: Cheesecake Legacy Village was the #1 in sales in country in this chain of 250+ restaurants last week - over $150K in carryout and delivery sales for the week. That's huge. 

45 minutes ago, eyehrtfood said:

Cheesecake chose not to pay rent early on as many big chains also did - whether actually cash-strapped or just cautious.

 

Note: Cheesecake Legacy Village was the #1 in sales in country in this chain of 250+ restaurants last week - over $150K in carryout and delivery sales for the week. That's huge. 

This is true..  that place is ridiculously busy.  I also think them not paying rent in a majority of their locations is just them being cautious and also still paying for the health insurance of all their furloughed employees.  If i had a choice i would rather them do that then pay rent. ? 

 

Its not a desire of mine, just a thought since stark and the factory do have long standing working relationships

 

Isn't this Stark's offices??

 

 

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

Isn't this Stark's offices??

 

They are in the building but it seems like a lot of space for them.  Although it does look like the top of the building and they are on the 13th floor so maybe.

 

Edited April 29, 20205 yr by Htsguy

20 minutes ago, KJP said:

Isn't this Stark's offices??

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

They are in the building but it seems like a lot of space for them.  Although it does look like the top of the building and they are on the 13th floor so maybe.

The ad says floors 14, 15, and 17 are available. 

7 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

The ad says floors 14, 15, and 17 are available. 

Well then so clearly no.

I used to work at Rosetta, which occupied floors 11-15 and 17. Within the last year or so they downsized to floors 14, 15 and 17 due to multiple mergers. (Floor 16 is a mechanical floor.) Rosetta is now part of Publicis Sapient. I'm surprised to hear that all of the remaining floors that they occupy are available for lease. I'll try to find out from my former coworkers what is going on.

I moved my posting and @mthompson's reply here....

 

4 hours ago, KJP said:

Isn't this Stark's offices??

 

 

The thumbnail of that  video underscores why I hope that Nucleus One winds up in a lighter color as it appears in the newest massing we’ve seen here on UO.  The PNC Bank Tower looks really  good and I don’t think it would appear as clean and contemporary in a dark gray or brown. And though Nucleus One will be 60 feet shorter than PNC, It will still make an excellent contribution to the feeling of density in the skyline as we see from The Beacon.(How are those panels working for you guys after a few months?)   These are the kinds of things that are sort of nice to distract us for a few minutes  in a pandemic -  for some of us. 

Edited April 30, 20205 yr by CleveFan

On 4/29/2020 at 11:32 PM, CleveFan said:

These are the kinds of things that are sort of nice to distract us for a few minutes  in a pandemic -  for some of us. 

 

Hopefully I can distract us for a couple more if you all don't mind ?

It's been forever since my last post, but I've finally gotten around to updating the nuCLEus massing in my rendering, so I just thought I'd entertain you all with some nice skyline shots and new angles we haven't gotten yet!

(As a reminder, orange is under construction/planned, and red are all of the hideous parking lots we need to get rid of!)

 

Have a lovely Mother's Day!

 

(In hindsight, I realize I forgot the Herold Building... Oh well, I'll get to that eventually)

 

One side not for this new plan is that although the building is not all that tall it will probably look taller than it actually is due to the (lack of) height of the buildings surrounding it. If it was in the E.9th office corridor it would blend in but in its present location it will look taller than it actually is. Coming out from a game at Gateway the thing will look pretty imposing. So there's that.

I wish Stark would scrap the addition to the Herold building and add a few more floors to the nuCLEus tower. The skyline could use a taller tower between the big 3 on Public Square (soon to be big 4) and the cluster along East 9th.

Edited May 10, 20205 yr by skiwest

11 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I wish Stark would scrap the addition to the Herold building and add a few more floors to the nuCLEus tower. The skyline could use a taller tower between the big 3 on Public Square (soon to be big 4) and the cluster along East 9th.

At this point, we'll be lucky if this project happens at all.  

^

4 hours ago, Geowizical said:

 

Hopefully I can distract us for a couple more if you all don't mind ?

It's been forever since my last post, but I've finally gotten around to updating the nuCLEus massing in my rendering, so I just thought I'd entertain you all with some nice skyline shots and new angles we haven't gotten yet!

(As a reminder, orange is under construction/planned, and red are all of the hideous parking lots we need to get rid of!)

 

Have a lovely Mother's Day!

 

(In hindsight, I realize I forgot the Herold Building... Oh well, I'll get to that eventually)

 

Welcome back!

 

Your contributions have been missed.

 

I know everyone is trying to make the best of the situation and I certainly dont want to spoil that, but I am simply not impressed with the new design, the height, the so-called density or the location of it. A simple nondescript office building could be built anywhere in the CBD; not right across the street from RMFH, home of the 2016 NBA world champion Cleveland Cavaliers.

Edited May 10, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

First of all, a special thank you to @Geowizical for the new renderings - yes, they did distract and entertain me for a number of minutes, as have his previous ones.  I actually think we might be getting just a little bit spoiled lately, with the number of recently completed, current  and planned projects - which is a sign of Cleveland's great progress.  Yea, I’d love to see a little more height on Nucleus One, just because it would look really cool at its location. Having said that, 350 feet is exactly the height of The Beacon - which has definitely contributed to the density and depth in the skyline, although not dramatic verticality. Nucleus, at the same 350 feet will certainly do that and it will be very apparent given it’s neighbors and perch at Gateway.  (Unlike the northerly new Hilton) And who knows - the Herold expansion might not be workable or approvable, based on my understanding of @KJP’s last article. In that scenario, could those extra square feet be relocated on new higher floors in Nucleus? 
Costs for this project  seem to have been slashed to the point where perhaps the final approved Nucleus might evolve one last time.  The main point is that though the current version is now a far cry from the initial 54 story game changing design, It would still be a very impactful addition for the city. 

Edited May 11, 20205 yr by CleveFan

9 hours ago, skiwest said:

I wish Stark would scrap the addition to the Herold building and add a few more floors to the nuCLEus tower. The skyline could use a taller tower between the big 3 on Public Square (soon to be big 4) and the cluster along East 9th.

I must have missed something.  The Herold Bldg. will be retained with an addition?  Is itvto get a new facade?

 

8 hours ago, lafont said:

I must have missed something.  The Herold Bldg. will be retained with an addition?  Is itvto get a new facade?

 

@KJP covered it in his recent nuCLEus articles. The Herold Building concept looks great. Of course, who knows what will actually happen. 

 

On 4/15/2020 at 10:58 PM, KJP said:

Done.....

 

 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 15, 2020

New nuCLEus, sans apartments, eyed for summer start

 

If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again.

Stark Enterprises has publicly released a third iteration of its proposed nuCLEus development. And sources say that Stark has the resources to move forward with a groundbreaking based on this plan as soon as the city's design review boards can meet again and act on it.

This version eliminates residential from the project, now focusing on a single tower for offices only, rising above a large parking deck with ground-floor retail. Each new mixed-use concept by Stark for nuCLEus has eliminated a use from the prior variation.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/new-nucleus-sans-apartments-eyed-for.html

 

On 4/16/2020 at 12:43 PM, KJP said:

Here's what Stark had with its LoopNet listing for 310-320 Prospect. I can no longer find this listing.  This was a printscreen of the enlarged image in the listing, so the resolution isn't too great. The floorplates are about 8,000 gross square feet between existing/new, except for the eighth floor which appears to be about half as large, or 4,000 square feet. That brings the total to about 60,000 gross square feet.

 

18 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

 

I know everyone is trying to make the best of the situation and I certainly dont want to spoil that, but I am simply not impressed with the new design, the height, the so-called density or the location of it. A simple nondescript office building could be built anywhere in the CBD; not right across the street from RMFH, home of the 2016 NBA world champion Cleveland Cavaliers.

 

It'll be a top-20 Cleveland building in terms of skyline presence. And the retail surrounding the garage (at least in previous versions) will revolutionize the feel of the area and create a much bigger continuity from East Fourth to the stadiums. 

 

We also still haven't seen the "real" renderings, just a detailed massing. Stark's designs for high rises have consistently been at least very interesting, if not very good. I'll just be happy when it gets built. And at this point, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it will get built. If Stark weren't serious about the project, it wouldn't be on version 3. This is not just marketing for Stark, because the delays and downgrades in the project have made this more of embarrassing PR than positive PR. I think they're serious about building something, and the numbers seem to add up for them.

As KJP once said, don't get excited until you see shovels in the ground....and not ceremonial ones at that.

1 hour ago, sooner said:

As KJP once said, don't get excited until you see shovels in the ground....and not ceremonial ones at that.

 

Obviously, you don't know what's gonna happen until it happens. Even shovels in the ground can result in an unfinished pit rather than a project.

 

But let's be real, most of the activity on this forum is essentially pre-shovel excitement. 

Agreed.  love the pre-shovel activity.  I also agree that if it happens it will be at the least an entertaining design.  It's just a Stark thing for me.

i'm fine with the massing and of course the herlod save, but i'm more skeptical than ever of when it can get started. remember that in the meantime, stark sunk a lot into top of the market properties in downtown brooklyn and los angeles that aren't doing anything right now. and he got a loan to do it. that likely took all the loose change out of his pockets for now. so we'll see. 

^I was more thinking that he has an active construction site going on in Pittsburgh and he seems to do construction serially. 

^ yeah, that too. i have no idea his finances, just a guess that he seems pretty stretched.

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

i'm fine with the massing and of course the herlod save, but i'm more skeptical than ever of when it can get started. remember that in the meantime, stark sunk a lot into top of the market properties in downtown brooklyn and los angeles that aren't doing anything right now. and he got a loan to do it. that likely took all the loose change out of his pockets for now. so we'll see. 

 

That may explain why Stark isn't giving any/many of his retail tenants a break on rent while they're shut down during the pandemic. That said, Stark freed up some cash flow (perhaps $3 million) by selling the Crocker Road office building a month or two ago.

 

That said, those who pledged equity for nuCLEus wouldn't allow Stark to use the equity to service loans on existing properties. Stark doesn't have a lot of its own equity in nuCLEus but it does have a lot of sweat equity in it. This is one of those deals where a developer does all of the work up front to get paid later. And the developer has to answer to a lot of financiers to deliver a return on a project. To do that, Stark has to keep delivering projects to maintain its reputation among high wealth individuals and other financiers.

Edited May 12, 20205 yr by KJP

i wouldn't think he would need to use nucleus to service other projects, just that the other projects would be the behind the scenes rationale for delaying nucleus. that seems to be what is happening.

Edited May 12, 20205 yr by mrnyc

Isn't it a fact that he is either going to have to s@#t or get off the pot soon or he will lose Benesch? (not out of town as has been strangely suggested but a re up at 200 PS or another building) If that happens I am pretty sure it remains a parking lot for my lifetime.

Wait, has something happened  since the mid-April NEOtrans article to create new doubt about the summer start?  The timeline with Benesch is down to just over two years - and the cost issues for this  project have been cut.  
I would agree  if the start is delayed significantly again - then the window for it may be closing due to the probable loss of the anchor tenant. But is there any news that suggests that a delay is pending? 

Edited May 12, 20205 yr by CleveFan