^Right; there may not be a need for doubt on this.

FYI: Stark is obviously that retailers have returned....

 

This feels like a strange full page ad (inside Crain’s print edition.  Which if you don’t have, I highly recommend paying the $5 every 5 weeks for). 
 

If nothing else we know Benesch and Stark are on the same page, literally.

 

 

Edited May 13, 20205 yr by Sapper Daddy

This could probably going any one of several threads, but I'm posting it here perhaps more so out of wishful thinking. But…

 

Does anyone know why Stark Enterprises hosted a private party for about 100 people on the rooftop patio of The Beacon last Thursday evening? I doubt it was for their offering 6 months of free rent at The Beacon. It timed with the end of June, and the end of the month is when property sales or financial transactions often close.

So what are you thinking regarding property sales or financial transactions ?

5 hours ago, simplythis said:

So what are you thinking regarding property sales or financial transactions ?

 

I was hoping it had something to do with nuCLEus but it could be anything since Stark is a national company. But how many/what kind of events warrant a private party for 100 people at this time? 

7 hours ago, KJP said:

I doubt it was for their offering 6 months of free rent at The Beacon

The need to offer 6 months of free rent as an inducement to gain new tenants is not a good indicator for the Beacon. Then again, one must assume that the Lumen is peeling away tenants at the top of the CBD rental market. Hopefully the party was to celebrate a move forward on the NuCLEus project.

@KJP Any idea who was at the party? Seems to me that could be a pretty good indication, because if this is to celebrate a closing, it would be weird to not invite some of the people (i.e. lawyers, brokers) who actually closed the deal for Stark. All of Stark Enterprises doesn’t add up to 100 people. 
 

Also does NuCLEus actually have design approval yet?

 

No i don't know who was there. 

In theory, retaining Benesch as an anchor tenant would be a timely driver for some movement with nuCLEus right about now, one would hope.

Just to add some fuel to the speculation fire ... this drone picture is from a very convenient location and height. A little clue from a Stark employee?

 

 

And in response to my questioning...

 

 

I wouldn't read much into it. It was probably just convenient for them to go there and put the drone up since they own the land and it offers a good vantage point of Beacon. 

I asked Ezra Stark last night in an e-mail if there were any updates but got no response. I asked because Ezra took out a $510,000 mortgage on his Beachwood house a couple of weeks ago. Of course, no reason for the mortgage was stated, so that leads to speculation.

 

But I asked someone else who is close to the project and he said that he's heard no news on nuCLEus. "A lot is up in the air right now," he said.

How much longer is Benesch willing to wait?

10 minutes ago, skiwest said:

How much longer is Benesch willing to wait?

 

Good question. I was wondering if Ezra took out the mortgage to fill a remaining gap in the capital stack or maybe some fees for architects, bond counsel, etc.

16 minutes ago, skiwest said:

How much longer is Benesch willing to wait?

Given what Covid-19 has done to the legal and office markets - and if Stark is actually a big Benesch client - I suspect that Benesch and its current landlord could easily agree to a lease amendment that would harmonize with a Nucleus build-out.

I’m starting to wonder if it’s possible that not only is NuCLEus alive, but the residential component is still being tossed around. I wonder this because it’s been a long time now since the one-tower plan leaked, but there’s been no action on it and their website shows the two-tower version still. 
 

Their capital stack always looked to me like they should be able to afford the single tower version easily. 
 

What if they’re still trying to do the two-tower version with a residential component, but they have the single tower version as a fallback. Maybe they’re just waiting till the last possible minute to move forward holding out hope that the two-tower version works.

On 8/21/2020 at 6:37 PM, LlamaLawyer said:

I’m starting to wonder if it’s possible that not only is NuCLEus alive, but the residential component is still being tossed around. I wonder this because it’s been a long time now since the one-tower plan leaked, but there’s been no action on it and their website shows the two-tower version still. 
 

Their capital stack always looked to me like they should be able to afford the single tower version easily. 
 

What if they’re still trying to do the two-tower version with a residential component, but they have the single tower version as a fallback. Maybe they’re just waiting till the last possible minute to move forward holding out hope that the two-tower version works.

I like that theory! Safe to say that’s the “best case scenario”.

Except it doesn't make sense. I agree that they probably have the equity to move forward with the office-over-parking/retail pedestal unless an equity partner pulled out. I'd heard rumors that one did but I don't know if that's true. So if Stark does have the resources to build the office tower atop the pedestal, then why not build it? Then you have the parking for the residential component whether you build it now or later. Unfortunately, among developers, nuCLEus has become a punch line to jokes about the slowness of things. Like, what moves faster -- glaciers, the Middle East peace process, continental plates drifting, or nuCLEus?

^ The slowness of "some" projects.

 

Numerous other projects have come, been completed and gone while this particular project continues with all the hype and no progress.

dubious stark actually has the equity to start any part of nucleus. remember he bought expensive property in los angeles and brooklyn a couple years ago with loans and at the top of the market that isnt doing anything. where is his income coming in with retail issues and covid these days? and if someone he was partnering with dropped out?

 

i mean not that this is dead, not at all, something will get built here eventually, but by all signs it looks like he’s stretched for the foreseeable future.

Stark is also getting into campus housing development.

 

Turns out a nuCLEus partner hasn't left the project. Everyone is waiting, including a very patient Benesch.

 

 

26 minutes ago, KJP said:

Stark is also getting into campus housing development.

 

Turns out a nuCLEus partner hasn't left the project. Everyone is waiting, including a very patient Benesch.

 

 

 

So is there any viable news on the actual 'latest' status of nuCLEus?

 

6 years later and still not a single shovel in the ground. 

 

Stark has either given up or he just isn't prepared to move forward.

Edited August 27, 20204 yr by John D. Baumgardner

52 minutes ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

 

So is there any viable news on the actual 'latest' status of nuCLEus?

Pretty sure KJP just answered that question: “everyone is waiting.” That’s the status. 

I don’t even care about this project anymore. OVERIT 

I will be surprised if nuCLEus is ever built.

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

I will be surprised if nuCLEus is ever built.

My bet is that 'something' called nuCLEus will get built; whether it in any way will resemble Stark's grander proposals is iffy.

11 hours ago, KJP said:

Stark is also getting into campus housing development.

 

Turns out a nuCLEus partner hasn't left the project. Everyone is waiting, including a very patient Benesch.

 

 

Waiting for ... ?? Is this due to uncertainty caused by the pandemic? 

34 minutes ago, Dougal said:

My bet is that 'something' called nuCLEus will get built; whether it in any way will resemble Stark's grander proposals is iffy.

 

I've heard some jokes that Stark is going to build a couple of low-level retail spots here and call it a day.

 

 

32 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Waiting for ... ?? Is this due to uncertainty caused by the pandemic? 

 

Possibly. They want/need more tenants. I thought they had this thing 73 percent pre-leased but apparently that was old data.

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

My bet is that 'something' called nuCLEus will get built; whether it in any way will resemble Stark's grander proposals is iffy.

The nuCLEus parking garage.  ?

4 hours ago, KJP said:

I've heard some jokes that Stark is going to build a couple of low-level retail spots here and call it a day.

Downtown needs an all night 7-11!

10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

I've heard some jokes that Stark is going to build a couple of low-level retail spots....

. They want/need more tenants. I thought they had this thing 73 percent pre-leased but apparently that was old data.

@KJP- have you heard what the “new” data is regarding pre- leasing? If not, what percentage of Nucleus would you think is pre-leased?  If the percentage is much lower than anticipated, Would that kind of status “normally” be enough to delay or stop a project of this type?  I’ve been a defender of Stark simply based on his ability to construct The Beacon - but his complete lack of communication or new PR on the  project is a concerning  sign.  and “X” - I can see the next thread on UO now - 24 hour downtown 7-11! 

Edited August 28, 20204 yr by CleveFan

@CleveFan Stark has commitments for perhaps as much as 200,000 square feet of office space at nuCLEus. That includes up to 180,000 SF for Benesch and about 20,000 SF for Stark. I was told there were others interested/committed that added another 40,000+ SF, but I don't know who they are/were. So for now, let's go with what we know and that's Benesch and Stark. Perhaps they don't need as much SF as before? The office component for the latest version of nuCLEus is 340,000 SF and the existing commitments from Benesch and Stark would occupy up to 58 percent of the porposed office building. That' percentage may be a little high. But if it's not, then it's still not high enough because nothing is happening with the project. I had previously thought nuCLEus's office component had 73 percent of it spoken for. When I mentioned that to a real estate developer, he said if it was that high, nuCLEus would be moving forward.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

@CleveFan Stark has commitments for perhaps as much as 200,000 square feet of office space at nuCLEus. That includes up to 180,000 SF for Benesch and about 20,000 SF for Stark. I was told there were others interested/committed that added another 40,000+ SF, but I don't know who they are/were. So for now, let's go with what we know and that's Benesch and Stark. Perhaps they don't need as much SF as before? The office component for the latest version of nuCLEus is 340,000 SF and the existing commitments from Benesch and Stark would occupy up to 58 percent of the porposed office building. That' percentage may be a little high. But if it's not, then it's still not high enough because nothing is happening with the project. I had previously thought nuCLEus's office component had 73 percent of it spoken for. When I mentioned that to a real estate developer, he said if it was that high, nuCLEus would be moving forward.

Thanks @KJPfor that specificity! Maybe this is inherently  problematic , but is it possible that one Nucleus Tower which was  a “hybrid” of both office and residential could be a creative solution? 

You mean, roughly half of the 340,000 SF office tower be redesigned with housing?

Yes, that’s what I was asking. 

16 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

Yes, that’s what I was asking. 

 

Very interesting idea.

14 hours ago, KJP said:

@CleveFan Stark has commitments for perhaps as much as 200,000 square feet of office space at nuCLEus. That includes up to 180,000 SF for Benesch and about 20,000 SF for Stark.

 

Benesch will not wait forever.  The longer the delay, the higher the risk that they move on.

I'm surprised they haven't already moved on.

On 8/28/2020 at 9:44 AM, KJP said:

 

Very interesting idea.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 12:53 AM, CleveFan said:

Thanks @KJPfor that specificity! Maybe this is inherently  problematic , but is it possible that one Nucleus Tower which was  a “hybrid” of both office and residential could be a creative solution? 

I'm very interested in more thoughts from @KJP and/or other Forum posters that have expertise and insight.  As I thought further about the idea of one mixed-use hybrid Nucleus Tower, it did seem to offer intriguing possible advantages.  I allowed myself to fantasize, momentarily about a Nuclues that  aspired to "The Pinnacle at Central Wharf" project in Boston - a true game-changer on that city's harbor front. But to "stark" reality again -   A Nucleus issue seems to be that the only committed tenants for the office tower are Benesch and Stark  (I thought Cleveland Live had been a part of the picture, but perhaps not) - a total of perhaps 200,000 square feet of office space for a planned 350,000 square foot tower.  If that tower's office allocation was reduced to say,250,000, s.f.  it would mean that Stark instantly had commitments for 80% of the office space = a figure that would provide the kind of leasing percentage required for shovels in the ground and critically, for preserving Benesch as the critical anchor tenant.  I've got to think there's a window closing in the near future for Benesch's ability to wait for Nucleus.   On the financing side, I believe the city of Cleveland does not offer tax abatement for office towers but could for residential.  Could a creative deal, of incentives  ( TMUD, EB-5 and others) effectively close the financing gap? The April 24, NeoTrans indicated that Stark "had resources to move on a slimmed-down Nucleus".  Even if that is no longer true - it suggests that Stark might still be close to closing the deal.  I don't know  how much a residential component- (slimmed down from 310,000 square feet to perhaps two thirds of that size) -  would cost  when added to the top of a shorter, but still substantial office component - of say, 20 stories.   Adding  apartments on higher floors, and hopefully, Pandemic and recession-proof condos on the very highest and Nucleus could offer a dynamic residential opportunity (e.g. "view") in every unit.   But  would the new total construction cost for "Nucleus 4.0" - possibly exceeding 30 stories  - offset any possible incentives and/or abatements that could be creatively brought together?  Would the original parcel for land earmarked for the apartment tower in the two building Nucleus become sellable land for Stark, producing a big windfall?  What would the garage component of a single mixed-use tower now be? How would the Herold Building factor into the equation?   The answers to these questions and others require a higher paygrade than mine -  and may be disappointing.  I'm just asking, and hoping for some optimism in this friendly forum.   

Edited August 29, 20204 yr by CleveFan
grammar

I think you raise some very valid questions and pose some opportunities for Stark. The reason for building a mixed-use tower of office and residential is made more attractive by the fact that tax abatement can be used for the residential portion. And yes, the tax abatement might allow Stark to build a little taller than 25 stories.

 

But I just think that Stark feels confident that they can ink a few office tenants to a lease and get the pre-leasing up to a point where they can put shovels in the ground. I just wrote an article about two businesses moving downtown that could have potentially filled up two or three floors of Stark's proposed office tower. But because Stark's not ready to go I doubt those tenants would be willing to wait, assuming they were even approached by Stark. But it does show that there are companies willing to make the move that would enable Stark to sign more office tenants. That's why I suspect he's confident about getting enough office pre-leasing. 

Edited August 29, 20204 yr by KJP

16 hours ago, CleveFan said:

 

I'm very interested in more thoughts from @KJP and/or other Forum posters that have expertise and insight.  As I thought further about the idea of one mixed-use hybrid Nucleus Tower, it did seem to offer intriguing possible advantages.  I allowed myself to fantasize, momentarily about a Nuclues that  aspired to "The Pinnacle at Central Wharf" project in Boston - a true game-changer on that city's harbor front. But to "stark" reality again -   A Nucleus issue seems to be that the only committed tenants for the office tower are Benesch and Stark  (I thought Cleveland Live had been a part of the picture, but perhaps not) - a total of perhaps 200,000 square feet of office space for a planned 350,000 square foot tower.  If that tower's office allocation was reduced to say,250,000, s.f.  it would mean that Stark instantly had commitments for 80% of the office space = a figure that would provide the kind of leasing percentage required for shovels in the ground and critically, for preserving Benesch as the critical anchor tenant.  I've got to think there's a window closing in the near future for Benesch's ability to wait for Nucleus.   On the financing side, I believe the city of Cleveland does not offer tax abatement for office towers but could for residential.  Could a creative deal, of incentives  ( TMUD, EB-5 and others) effectively close the financing gap? The April 24, NeoTrans indicated that Stark "had resources to move on a slimmed-down Nucleus".  Even if that is no longer true - it suggests that Stark might still be close to closing the deal.  I don't know  how much a residential component- (slimmed down from 310,000 square feet to perhaps two thirds of that size) -  would cost  when added to the top of a shorter, but still substantial office component - of say, 20 stories.   Adding  apartments on higher floors, and hopefully, Pandemic and recession-proof condos on the very highest and Nucleus could offer a dynamic residential opportunity (e.g. "view") in every unit.   But  would the new total construction cost for "Nucleus 4.0" - possibly exceeding 30 stories  - offset any possible incentives and/or abatements that could be creatively brought together?  Would the original parcel for land earmarked for the apartment tower in the two building Nucleus become sellable land for Stark, producing a big windfall?  What would the garage component of a single mixed-use tower now be? How would the Herold Building factor into the equation?   The answers to these questions and others require a higher paygrade than mine -  and may be disappointing.  I'm just asking, and hoping for some optimism in this friendly forum.   

You have some very good ideas about reconfiguring NUCLEUS to enable Stark to ACTUALLY START BUILDING!

 

But the only problem is that IF you start building above approximately 25 floors you will have to spend A LOT MORE MONEY for a foundation to bedrock.  Thats one reason Stark shorten the buildings to 24-25 stories to save a lot of money on the foundation. 

 

I think a good solution is to do the parking & retail base and then Stark builds the first tower with total of 24 floors total with approximately 6-8 floors base, 8 floors Office, and 8 floors of Apartments. 

 

And then a couple years later build a similar # 2 tower on the existing parking - retail base.  And at that point depending on market conditions Stark could build a combination office & residential tower.  Or he could build a 100% office tower or a 100% apartment tower depending on what makes sense at that point in time.

 

And IF nuCLEus is built I do hope that the CLEVELAND LIVE component is build as part of the base!  And it would add so much to the EAST 4 STREET and RMFH Entertainment District!

 

And then change the name to:

LARRY'S nuCLEus TOWER

 

LOL

On 8/29/2020 at 7:42 PM, Larry1962 said:

You have some very good ideas about reconfiguring NUCLEUS to enable Stark to ACTUALLY START BUILDING!

 

But the only problem is that IF you start building above approximately 25 floors you will have to spend A LOT MORE MONEY for a foundation to bedrock.  Thats one reason Stark shorten the buildings to 24-25 stories to save a lot of money on the foundation. 

 

I think a good solution is to do the parking & retail base and then Stark builds the first tower with total of 24 floors total with approximately 6-8 floors base, 8 floors Office, and 8 floors of Apartments. 

 

And then a couple years later build a similar # 2 tower on the existing parking - retail base.  And at that point depending on market conditions Stark could build a combination office & residential tower.  Or he could build a 100% office tower or a 100% apartment tower depending on what makes sense at that point in time.

 

 

Yea, I figured that whatever money would be saved by a consolidation to one building would still not enable a foundation to bedrock and allow anything like the height of the original Nucleus tower. Guess I was hoping for a few extra stories, anyway.   I do like the idea of having the flexibility to build either a second "twin" tower in the future that might be of mixed use - or one that was either exclusively office or residential.  I would bet that the latter was the more likely. 

 

The really SAD thing is that it seems like BOB STARK perhaps had the financing in place a couple times over the last six years and he could had built one of the versions of nuCLEus. 

 

BUT he got too wrapped into the Perfect Project

over a Doable Project syndrome.

 

BUT I do give him a lot of CREDIT for NOT giving up and as Walt Disney said:

 

KEEP MOVING FORWARD!!!

27 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

 

Very good points!

 

But assuming that with in a year or so we have a vaccine for the virus we are now fighting.  And that a large portion of office workers then return to tradition offices at least three days a week.  Then by the time a second nuCLEus Tower MAYBE built in four or five years that there will be a LARGE PENT UP DEMAND for Class A - Trophy Office Towers downtown!  Especially since Class A space in the CBD is already down to 12-13% vacancy. 

 

And KJP has already reported that there are at least two out of market companies and one local company that has been considering building new office towers in the CBD!  Those plans are now on hold and or maybe cancelled until they can reassess their future office space requirements considering the virus causing a lot of remote working today. 

 

And with a NEW SHW TOWER being built downtown within a few years, I believe that will encourage some of their main partners and suppliers to perhaps built a 20-30 story office tower to allow their local employees to improve their integration into SHW to allow better SHW customer service and respond times.

 

BUILD BABY BUILD!!

Edited August 31, 20204 yr by Larry1962
Typos and more details

Continuing in that positive assessment, the global economy and macro trends have always affected Cleveland from boom and bust times. I think Cleveland and Northeast Ohio are positioned well for this new weird era.  

  I would expect that the region’s bio-tech knowledge will keep the region relevant. The ease of expansion, the high quality yet low cost of living, wealth of recreational and cultural opportunities, and diversity will keep the region growing. 

   To me Cleveland keeps getting more livable in an unbroken line from Rocky River to Shaker Square. As residential towers rise its a confirmation of that neighborhood’s health and cultural wealth.  

  Its clear billions of dollars are going to be spent in the urban core on HQs and moving government offices, courts, jails, police hq, plus infrastructure and road updates over the next five years. The spin off in capital spending and the theoretically improved government efficiency will resonate through the region. 

  We know much better now what we had no clue about 6-8 months ago. We now can plan for what a post-covid world might look like.  I imagine this includes building design and right-sizing and blending the right amount of office, retail, and living space for a new cbd complex.  I consider this project a nice get. If anything, this project probably does need to get started soon as there will be so many competing resources it might be too expensive to get it off the ground. 

 

MONDAY, AUGUST 31, 2020

Mixed-use could boost proposed downtown office tower

 

For six years, Stark Enterprises' nuCLEus proposed development has always been about mixed use. But it is yet to be about construction. It could be about both if the uses were mixed in a single tower.

 

For its downtown Cleveland project in the Gateway District, it has proposed a mix of ground-floor retail, restaurants and entertainment topped by parking. Above that, the project has offered various layouts of offices, residential and hotel uses in several combinations -- one tower, two towers and even two towers with a cantilevered bridge between them.

 

MORE:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/08/mixed-use-could-boost-proposed-downtown.html

27 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

MONDAY, AUGUST 31, 2020

Mixed-use could boost proposed downtown office tower

 

For six years, Stark Enterprises' nuCLEus proposed development has always been about mixed use. But it is yet to be about construction. It could be about both if the uses were mixed in a single tower.

 

For its downtown Cleveland project in the Gateway District, it has proposed a mix of ground-floor retail, restaurants and entertainment topped by parking. Above that, the project has offered various layouts of offices, residential and hotel uses in several combinations -- one tower, two towers and even two towers with a cantilevered bridge between them.

 

MORE:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/08/mixed-use-could-boost-proposed-downtown.html

Is this truly a possibility?   Or is this story a result of recent forumers wishful thinking?

41 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Is this truly a possibility?   Or is this story a result of recent forumers wishful thinking?

 

Both. It may not go anywhere however. I think Stark believes they can reel in a couple more office tenants or one decent-sized tenant.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Both. It may not go anywhere however. I think Stark believes they can reel in a couple more office tenants or one decent-sized tenant.

Thanks @KJP as always, for this article. It’s one thing for forum members to throw around ideas and opinions - it’s another to read something in NEOtrans.  I have no doubt that people at Stark have or will see it.