March 17, 20205 yr MONDAY, MARCH 16, 2020 nuCLEus and Centennial projects may start this summer Two major development projects in downtown Cleveland could get underway this summer. And we're not just talking about the 23-story City Club Apartments, the 75 Public Square renovation NEOtrans reported on last November, or the site preparations for Sherwin-Williams' new headquarters tower on Public Square that NEOtrans nailed months before it was announced. Not only are those projects still "go," but so may be the duo of 24-story, new-construction towers comprising the long-planned nuCLEus development. And so might the massive reconstruction of 925 Euclid Ave. into The Centennial be a go. According to several sources who spoke off the record, both projects are on track for the start of construction this summer. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/03/nucleus-and-centennial-projects-may.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 17, 20205 yr Lets go! I needed some good news like this. I may cry thinking of downtown post the finishing of these projects and SW HQ. Just wow the energy the city will have.
March 17, 20205 yr Downtown is going to be very busy for the next few years! This is an exciting time!
March 17, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, G00pie said: Downtown is going to be very busy for the next few years! This is an exciting time! More projects emerging all of the time. While we certainly have a right to be skeptical about nuCLEus, I'm very intrigued that Stark doesn't seem to be waiting on the TMUD credit legislation -- unless they're confident the TMUD gets implemented ASAP and the first credits can be awarded before the end of the state's fiscal year June 30. I would be very surprised if the state could get that done, although the coronavirus emergency might force the DeWine administration to push the TMUD credits out there as an economic stimulus. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 17, 20205 yr BUT THE PARKING, WHO WILL THINK OF THE PARKING!?!?!!?! -Some suburbanite, somewhere
March 17, 20205 yr Oh they did... 1,300+ spaces. I hear what you're saying though, what will we do with all these surface lots getting built on at the same time....what will we do?? Glad to see more surface lots dying. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 17, 20205 yr ^ There's this thing, that's been around in one form or another for a century. It's called GCRTA. Edited March 17, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder
March 17, 20205 yr For people that want more activity in Cleveland, you guys sure have a weird thing against people from the suburbs. I live in Mentor and literally no one I know complains about parking. Some of you live in Lakewood and I consider that a suburb (I’ve lived there before).
March 17, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, JB said: For people that want more activity in Cleveland, you guys sure have a weird thing against people from the suburbs. I live in Mentor and literally no one I know complains about parking. Some of you live in Lakewood and I consider that a suburb (I’ve lived there before). I've heard many complain about parking. Cleveland.com even had an article responding that very issue about the temporary loss of spaces during these and future construction projects. So it is an issue, though obviously not for everyone. And I suspect a little urban/suburban levity/competition is OK as long as it doesn't take a thread off topic. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 17, 20205 yr 29 minutes ago, JB said: For people that want more activity in Cleveland, you guys sure have a weird thing against people from the suburbs. I live in Mentor and literally no one I know complains about parking. Some of you live in Lakewood and I consider that a suburb (I’ve lived there before). No one in Mentor complains about parking in Mentor. But they do about parking in downtown Cleveland (and even downtown Willoughby!).
March 17, 20205 yr It still bothers me that the residential tower is at an angle from Prospect. Don't like it. And you certainly will not get a nice wall of buildings look down Prospect with this bldg doing that.
March 17, 20205 yr ^ yes the latest render is very awkward and wastes space, but i suspect it may not be the final version. its great to hear they hope to move ahead to construction on this at last.
March 17, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Oh they did... 1,300+ spaces. I hear what you're saying though, what will we do with all these surface lots getting built on at the same time....what will we do?? Glad to see more surface lots dying. ride the bus or take the train... both great options!!
March 17, 20205 yr The only thing I absolutely hate about this design is how exposed the parking garage is from above and the sides. I get needing to downsize the original plans, but how do you go from creatively designed spaces for people on the rooftop, to having a completely open parking deck from the top?! If anything I wish the apartment building were shorter and span the entire surface area than leaving the deck exposed.
March 17, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: No one in Mentor complains about parking in Mentor. But they do about parking in downtown Cleveland (and even downtown Willoughby!). I was talking about Cleveland, and I disagree for all of the above. But this is off topic. So I’ll leave it.
March 18, 20205 yr 7 hours ago, mrnyc said: ^ yes the latest render is very awkward and wastes space, but i suspect it may not be the final version. I’m thrilled to hear, once again, that Nucleus “may” be going forward - although Stark’s direct messaging has been cryptic, at best, about that possibility. I’m curious about mynyc’s thought that the latest rendering may not be the final version - is that just “a feeling” or based on anything specific? I consistently try to stay positive about what I post here, but design-wise, I find very little to like in the residential tower. The office Tower is attractive but the residential building looks very much like urban residential projects from the 60’s and 70’s, IMHO.
March 18, 20205 yr Fantastic news. I’ve been thinking for a while that if Stark was *that* close to having his capital stack a year ago, it would seem he would be able to get something done without the TMUD given how low interest rates were recently. Also, because of how the TMUD law is written, Stark has every incentive to play up how hard this will be to accomplish, or else he risks not qualifying for the TMUD.
March 18, 20205 yr I feel a Dave & Busters would do wonderful in NuCLEus, a sports bar for the sports fanatics and an arcade for, well everyone AND it's smack in the middle of what is our entertainment district which bustles. Edited March 18, 20205 yr by MyPhoneDead
March 18, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: I feel a Dave & Busters would do wonderful in NuCLEus, a sports bar for the sports fanatics and an arcade for, well everyone AND it's smack in the middle of what is our entertainment district which bustles. You are probably right that a Dave and Busters would do well in that location and it is probably a natural given what would surround it, but I cannot imagine it would happen unless they close the Westlake location. D and B is a destination type restaruant/attraction. People from the region go to it rather than just the neighborhood. You usually make plans to go, usually with a group, rather than just dropping in (although I could see more drop in business downtown than say Westlake given it would be right next to Rocket, Progressive and the Casino). A downtown location would most likely be a drag on the Westlake location which already has its seasonal ups and downs. A group from the east side or even say someplace like Kent that would previously head to Westlake would probably go downtown. I don't see a second location expanding its base of customers in any significant manner.
March 18, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, Htsguy said: You are probably right that a Dave and Busters would do well in that location and it is probably a natural given what would surround it, but I cannot imagine it would happen unless they close the Westlake location. D and B is a destination type restaruant/attraction. People from the region go to it rather than just the neighborhood. You usually make plans to go, usually with a group, rather than just dropping in (although I could see more drop in business downtown than say Westlake given it would be right next to Rocket, Progressive and the Casino). A downtown location would most likely be a drag on the Westlake location which already has its seasonal ups and downs. A group from the east side or even say someplace like Kent that would previously head to Westlake would probably go downtown. I don't see a second location expanding its base of customers in any significant manner. Columbus has 2 that are 20 minutes apart from each other and while the city has a larger population that us the region population is similar and they are maintaining fine, the Cleveland one would be a similar distance apart. The Downtown one wouldn't draw away from Westlake too much because suburban drivers wouldn't want to pay for parking. The downtown one would be a draw for downtown residents, tourist, workers after work, sports fans that are visiting downtown and surrounding neighborhoods such as the growing Ohio City, and Tremont due to proximity.
March 18, 20205 yr As a near east-sider I don't make the effort to drive to the D&B in Westlake, but I would drive downtown or stop in if I'm there for something else. Plus this would be accessible by public transit.
March 18, 20205 yr 21 hours ago, mrnyc said: ^ yes the latest render is very awkward and wastes space, but i suspect it may not be the final version. Let's hope so. I'm not too fond of it either. It would be nice if they went back to something similar to the original version with one tall tower, but not the "Jenga" design.
March 18, 20205 yr Is the "Cleveland Live" concept still in play or was that scrapped with the original development plans?
April 9, 20205 yr THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 2020 Coronavirus crisis casualties in Cleveland real estate ...A Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credit pending in the Ohio House of Representatives isn't likely to pass anytime soon, due to the crisis. Backers had hoped that the legislation could be moved out of the House's Economic and Workforce Development Committee and passed by the full House last month, with a possible signature by the governor in early April. That could allow three years of tax credits, starting before the end of the state's current fiscal year that ends June 30. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-crisis-casualties-in.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 13, 20205 yr Question is, will Stark use the proceeds from this sale to sustain the company through the coronavirus crisis, to repay its investors or to help launch developments like nuCLEus? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 14, 20205 yr 59 minutes ago, Larry1962 said: ^^ How much did the property was sold for? The tax value was $4.5 million. Two other office properties in Westlake at less desirable locations were listing for between $100 to $130 per square foot. The building Stark sold was 25,000 square feet. Stark may have sold it for close to what the tax value was. It apparently was a cash sale because there's no documentation about the sale price available online. I would have to request the property conveyance form to see the actual sale price. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 14, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, G00pie said: now if they could just do something with the eyesore on the other side of the street.... There may be something brewing over there. I think it would be counted as part of nuCLEus. Trying to get confirmation. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 14, 20205 yr 39 minutes ago, KJP said: There may be something brewing over there. I think it would be counted as part of nuCLEus. Trying to get confirmation. Thatd be awesome.. Fixing that side of the street would do wonders for the feel of that area.. its like the last remnant of abandonment in the area.
April 15, 20205 yr 4 hours ago, X said: I hope it involves preservation of the historic buildings. It's a great block. It's much more than that. If anybody has an interest, vested or otherwise in Cleveland's place in rock 'n roll history, they would not allow the dismissal of the importance the Record Rendezvous store and its unaltered appearance. Such an opportunity for something great. Granted, the building is a mess, but you can't replace it once it's gone!
April 16, 20205 yr BOOM (NEOtrans bomb about to drop) Edited April 16, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr I hope I am wrong but that does not sound like good news. I prefer fireworks to bombs.
April 16, 20205 yr 9 minutes ago, KJP said: BOOM (NEOtrans bomb about to drop) 'About' as in tomorrow morning, or should I open another beer and wait lol
April 16, 20205 yr Idk...I feel like this is going to be good? I have opened tequila and am waiting ?
April 16, 20205 yr 22 minutes ago, GISguy said: 'About' as in tomorrow morning, or should I open another beer and wait lol Open another beer. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Done..... WEDNESDAY, APRIL 15, 2020 New nuCLEus, sans apartments, eyed for summer start If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. Stark Enterprises has publicly released a third iteration of its proposed nuCLEus development. And sources say that Stark has the resources to move forward with a groundbreaking based on this plan as soon as the city's design review boards can meet again and act on it. This version eliminates residential from the project, now focusing on a single tower for offices only, rising above a large parking deck with ground-floor retail. Each new mixed-use concept by Stark for nuCLEus has eliminated a use from the prior variation. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/new-nucleus-sans-apartments-eyed-for.html Edited April 18, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Hmm...better than an empty lot but wow this project has shrunk over the years. BUT if it keeps a business here, and a large one at that, whatever. Like you said @KJP hopefully the parking deck pedestal could be a phase 2 of apts+. That side next to the q could definitely use some street activation. Speaking of- if the ATT Building ever gets converted this could really be a nifty part of downtown. Edit: thanks for the article, cheers! Edit 2: herold building, yes! I remember the pics from the landmarks commission? Last year, that building looks rough from the inside, but it's not like stark isn't to blame for a lot of the neglect, glad the demo permit got denied, really hoping this part of the project happens! Edited April 16, 20205 yr by GISguy
April 16, 20205 yr As long as a second tower gets built for apartments on the open pedestal, I have no problem with this. Looking back on the previous plans, I think the office tower looks better now. Not quite as dark. I really like the design of the 8 story addition to the Herold Building. Thanks for the reporting.
April 16, 20205 yr I like how it looks and i like the idea of developing across east 4th also. I would hope that the parking deck would allow for a phase 2 or 3 type development in the future.. i wouldnt imagine them not developing it with that idea as part of it.. just in case
April 16, 20205 yr Out of all of this, I’m most excited about how amazing that Herold building looks. That is a win if it gets built.
April 16, 20205 yr It appears the laneway is connecting to a building that is just a parking structure (presumably w ground level retail) and will be completely covered by the parking deck. Odd. I’d still prefer to have the laneway replaced with an Arcade like the 5th St Arcade across the street. The project fills a parking crater - hooray! - and the Herold building design looks cool. Edited April 16, 20205 yr by Boomerang_Brian Reworded When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
April 16, 20205 yr I don't hate this- and wonder if its actually a good idea. It gives the market time to absorb more apartments that are currently being added to the market. Who knows, by the time they are ready to think about building the second tower maybe condos would make sense!
April 16, 20205 yr 29 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: It appears the laneway is connecting to a building that is just a parking structure (presumably w ground level retail) and will be completely covered by the parking deck. Odd. I’d still prefer to have the laneway replaced with an Arcade like the 5th St Arcade across the street. The project fills a parking crater - hooray! - and the Herold building design looks cool. Unless that's where Stark plans future residential? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Anything that moves this project forward, I’m all for it. (And I really hope Cleveland Live is still part of this project. We need that). @KJP do you know if it’s still part of the project? Edited April 16, 20205 yr by inlovewithCLE
April 16, 20205 yr If there are future plans for residential I imagine it would go on the eastern edge where the office tower was in the last plans. Hard to tell though, nowhere else in the site plan is there enough elevators to support a substantial apartment building. This is Stark after all. We hoped the project was shovel ready after the last downsizing. Not getting excited again.
April 16, 20205 yr its very wise that its the offices first --- so thats fine --- and as a big bonus any quick as possible start on the construction would really give downtown a lift in and of itself.
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