Looks like they have one of those core drilling trucks on site.

^Would that be for testing/determining how far down the bedrock is?  Or is that a sign they are getting started?

^Would that be for testing/determining how far down the bedrock is?  Or is that a sign they are getting started?

I would assume soil boring testing for foundation design.  I don't think the city has even reviewed design yet. 

NuCLEus will be THE BLOCK downtown.  The retail will almost be gravy... And the fact that it will be steps away from E. 4th, Tower City, the new Public Square, the Q, the Pro, the RTA transit hub, Heinens/The 9, Schofield/Kimpton,  etc, etc...

I've been thinking the same thing.  A project of this scale would seem to run from at least $750M to $1B, esp in a dense, urban major downtown... IIRC, FEB's Phase I alone (the E&Y 21-story tower plus the Aloft Hotel) was around $300M.

 

So check this out - I think this project is priced in 2 phases.  If you search for Cleveland projects here: http://www.constructionwire.com - you'll see that there were 2 listed in early November.  One new construction "Parking Structures, Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Conventions/Arenas" project listed for $272 million and one new construction "Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Residential - MultiFamily (Apartments/Condos)" for $300 million.

 

$572 million sounds more realistic for a project like this.

 

I was snooping around on that site earlier in the month and it allowed me to look at each project listing on a map.  I think I remember both of these 2 projects being listed at the NuCLEus site.  Phase 1 being the parking and some retail components and Phase 2 being the larger tower.  For some reason, I no longer have the option to view the projects on the map and I don't have an account so oh well.

So check this out - I think this project is priced in 2 phases.  If you search for Cleveland projects here: http://www.constructionwire.com - you'll see that there were 2 listed in early November.  One new construction "Parking Structures, Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Conventions/Arenas" project listed for $272 million and one new construction "Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Residential - MultiFamily (Apartments/Condos)" for $300 million.

 

$572 million sounds more realistic for a project like this.

 

I was snooping around on that site earlier in the month and it allowed me to look at each project listing on a map.  I think I remember both of these 2 projects being listed at the NuCLEus site.  Phase 1 being the parking and some retail components and Phase 2 being the larger tower.  For some reason, I no longer have the option to view the projects on the map and I don't have an account so oh well.

 

That makes a lot of sense.

Here's a proposed $300M highrise development in Calgary for comparison. I think the number is low, but probably not out of the ballpark. Unless you're comparing it to markets that have additional forces in place.

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/1573379/300-million-dollar-multi-family-project-coming-to-east-village/

 

 

interesting find here -- this one looks very similar.

After posting that it occurred to me that the article is obviously in Canadian dollars, but didn't bother to modify it since in my mind the $CN had been keeping pace with the $US, but apparently Canada has fallen off a cliff and is being exchanged at below $0.90 per Canadian dollar.

After posting that it occurred to me that the article is obviously in Canadian dollars, but didn't bother to modify it since in my mind the $CN had been keeping pace with the $US, but apparently Canada has fallen off a cliff and is being exchanged at below $0.90 per Canadian dollar.

 

Unless most/all of their materials and labor are coming from another country, the exchange rate doesn't mean much here. The cost of a building is scaled to everything else in that country, be it the price of fuel to an hour of labor to cost of a cheeseburger. A $2 cheeseburger at McDonalds in the USA still costs $2 in Canada. It only matters when a border is involved because, as an American, I can more of that Canadian cheeseburger than a Canadian can.

^So in Japan it would only cost 300M yen, right? ;)  I don't think you can just assume the purchasing power of similarly valued currencies is identical, but that's all off-topic.

 

At this point I think we should just ignore projected costs.  Stark has been fairly specific about the scale he ultimately wants to build to, but as SixthCity reminds us, this thing will be phased, so any dollar numbers would have to described in really specific terms to mean much.

^So in Japan it would only cost 300M yen, right? ;)  I don't think you can just assume the purchasing power of similarly valued currencies is identical, but that's all off-topic.

 

No, it's scalable within each economy. A cheeseburger costs 2 Euros or 2 pounds. But a visiting American can buy more or less of them depending on the exchange rate.

 

If Calgary can build a project similar to nuCLEus for C$300 million, then you have to look at other factors including the design, comparing building materials, local rents, prevailing wages, the country of origin of materials and resources, etc. etc. Exchange rates matter only if inputs are crossing international boundaries.

I've been thinking the same thing.  A project of this scale would seem to run from at least $750M to $1B, esp in a dense, urban major downtown... IIRC, FEB's Phase I alone (the E&Y 21-story tower plus the Aloft Hotel) was around $300M.

 

So check this out - I think this project is priced in 2 phases.  If you search for Cleveland projects here: http://www.constructionwire.com - you'll see that there were 2 listed in early November.  One new construction "Parking Structures, Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Conventions/Arenas" project listed for $272 million and one new construction "Hotels/Motels/Resorts, Residential - MultiFamily (Apartments/Condos)" for $300 million.

 

$572 million sounds more realistic for a project like this.

 

I was snooping around on that site earlier in the month and it allowed me to look at each project listing on a map.  I think I remember both of these 2 projects being listed at the NuCLEus site.  Phase 1 being the parking and some retail components and Phase 2 being the larger tower.  For some reason, I no longer have the option to view the projects on the map and I don't have an account so oh well.

 

$272M is the same price tag for the Convention Center Hotel and the stage is currently listed as "construction".  The $300M project is listed as "Approval and Planning (Active)".  So I'm guessing that the one is the CC Hotel and the other is NuCLEus, just my guess.

Just went by, saw four boring/drilling trucks on the site.

Just went by, saw four boring/drilling trucks on the site.

 

So they should be reaching China any day now....

Just went by, saw four boring/drilling trucks on the site.

 

So they should be reaching China any day now....

 

Or the Indian Ocean...depending on how literal you want to be.  :-P

No new developments in this piece but it clarifies some of the numbers associated with the project....

http://www.ideastream.org/news/feature/developer-plans-major-new-downtown-cleveland-project

Hmmm, but weren't the detailed conceptual plans only showing two? That article appears to be the only place three towers was on the drawing board.

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_and_j-dek_are_leaning_to.html#incart_river

I'm more inclined to believe the more detailed conceptual plans given first that shows two buildings since that appears to be the direction they're going. Maybe at some point early on they were thinking about a third? Or if they land a hotel operator who wants their own tower it'll be integrated into the plan? It doesn't seem like they're downsizing the project but that rather that that massing model wasn't the one that correlated to the plan as accurately.

There are several more articles with massings with three buildings instead of two. I'm not sure what's going on? Anyone have ideas?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_enterprises_nucleus_proj.html

- this was a conceptual form of what Nucleus would generally look like and was approved by Cleveland planning commission. Why then would remove a building AFTER being approved by the CPC?

There are several more articles with massings with three buildings instead of two. I'm not sure what's going on? Anyone have ideas?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/11/stark_enterprises_nucleus_proj.html

- this was a conceptual form of what Nucleus would generally look like and was approved by Cleveland planning commission. Why then would remove a building AFTER being approved by the CPC?

 

You're making much ado about nothing. There hasn't been a significant change. The only thing that looks different is that there is no longer the hotel portion the juts out from the taller tower. But I would hardly consider that piece a "tower" in its own right. I also have no idea why you are losing confidence that this plan will happen. Nothing that Stark has done would seem to indicate that.

No new developments in this piece but it clarifies some of the numbers associated with the project....

http://www.ideastream.org/news/feature/developer-plans-major-new-downtown-cleveland-project

 

“In the ‘60s, in the ‘70s, in the ‘80s, we built buildings that forgot about what that street is about,” Stark told Cuyahoga County Council yesterday afternoon. This should be the opposite. There shouldn’t be one inch of frontage of the buildings involved here that isn’t active.

 

^That is literally one of the most important things a developer has said in this city in a long time. He gets it. Some of his other developments are questionable, but he knows this location's needs. And the needs of downtown Cleveland.

His attitude is definitely in the right place. But I'll withhold excitement until I see actual renderings. The street level presence could be dominated by the huge parking garage, especially on the eastern building (what was it, 10 floors of parking?). We have several parking garages with ground floor retail, and not one of them is anything to write home about.

Just went by, saw four boring/drilling trucks on the site.

 

So they should be reaching China any day now....

 

Or the Indian Ocean...depending on how literal you want to be.  :-P

 

They are going to scrap the building and put a natural gas well on the site.

His attitude is definitely in the right place. But I'll withhold excitement until I see actual renderings. The street level presence could be dominated by the huge parking garage, especially on the eastern building (what was it, 10 floors of parking?). We have several parking garages with ground floor retail, and not one of them is anything to write home about.

 

I'd say 515 Euclid is fairly impressive.

Generally when integrated into a building garages are a lot less noticeable or offensive.

 

Plus I believe they said a lot of the development will have 2 stories of retail, right? I know it sounds ridiculous, but the first couple floors are really the only thing that matters in terms of street activity. Whatever is above stops mattering because people don't really look up. An active first two floors followed by inactivity for ten followed by a tower is going to feel the same as 2 stories of activity followed directly by a tower.

 

Obviously that's a generalization and there are examples that stray from that statement, but it's a general truth.

Whether we like it or not, parking is going to be a component of any large development like this.  There will be two floors of retail and highrise buildings atop.  The buildings will get a lot of use and generate activity.  This debate is about aesthetics more than effect.  if fully leased, this area will be dynamic, parking or not. 

No, it isn't all about aesthetics.  If you want to enliven that space, you can line the outside of the parking garages with residential units with balconies.  That will provide more "eyes on the street" to use an overused phrase.  Garages are actually quite noisy, lots of honking and car alarms, people yelling for no reason late at night, etc.- 10 stories worth is a lot of that.

No, it isn't all about aesthetics.  If you want to enliven that space, you can line the outside of the parking garages with residential units with balconies.  That will provide more "eyes on the street" to use an overused phrase.  Garages are actually quite noisy, lots of honking and car alarms, people yelling for no reason late at night, etc.- 10 stories worth is a lot of that.

Agreed! There is more to a building and it's affect on the neighborhood than the first floor (or two floors). The parking levels might be very dominant from the street. Pushing the tower away from the Prospect will make just make it worse.

 

 

I'd say 515 Euclid is fairly impressive.

It's definitely the best of the bunch. Though I spent 2+ years staring at 515 Euclid from my window across the street. In the evening, the glass facade completely disappears making it look just as bad as every other garage above the first floor. I remember a car alarm going for 4 days non-stop.:)

Hmmm

 

Developer of nuCLEus eyes RNC's business

 

"The office space and apartments in developer Bob Stark’s plans for his nuCLEus development in Cleveland’s Gateway neighborhood aren’t expected to be open until some time after 2016.

 

But Stark told a Cleveland City Council committee last week that if the Republican National Committee can’t soon find a significant chunk of office space as it builds toward its presidential nominating convention in summer 2016, he might put up as much as seven stories — 200,000 square feet — of raw office space for the party’s convention planning needs."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20141206/FREE/141209869/developer-of-nucleus-eyes-rncs-business

Very interesting!

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/keyconnections120614.aspx

 

Within the article it is stated that the residential tower for Nucleus will be 550 feet tall.  The rendering in the article though is from a residential tower planned for Houston... not sure why they used that.

550 feet put's it above Erieview Tower in height.  That would be a great addition to the skyline!

I'd do it now if I was at home, but can someone make a quick skyline massing of this project? I want to see what this will look like from afar.

I'm hoping that rendering is just a placeholder graphic.

I think that concept may look good on the Gold Coast or maybe even in University Circle.  Somewhere that it could serve as a centerpiece tower.  But incorporated into the Downtown Skyline, I think it may stand out like a sore thumb.  At that height, and location, no matter what, this is going to be very prevalent in the skyline.  I'd have to see it incorporated into the project to make a better judgement.

 

I'm sure MayDay is right that it's a placeholder, but typically, a placeholder is chosen based on what the developer is aiming for as far as design and size.  That's why I refer to it as a concept, and one of which I'm not sure works. 

I'm hoping that rendering is just a placeholder graphic.

 

It kinda pains me to say it this way, but there are not enough levels of parking deck for that to be an actual rendering for this project as we know it so far.

Everyone! Sloooow down, I said in my comment that the rendering in the article is for a tower in Houston. Google Market Place Tower Houston ;)

I'm really excited about this project. More info! More news!

I'd do it now if I was at home, but can someone make a quick skyline massing of this project? I want to see what this will look like from afar.

 

I can try later but I think this will fill in the gap between Key/200PS and Terminal Tower from I77 north (one of my favorite views aside from that gap).

^I'm actually thinking that tonight I'll do a mockup to see how this plus the Hilton will affect the skyline from various viewpoints. I'm feeling a lazy evening watching movies and inserting buildings into Google Sketchup is perfect for this weather.

I'd do it now if I was at home, but can someone make a quick skyline massing of this project? I want to see what this will look like from afar.

 

I can try later but I think this will fill in the gap between Key/200PS and Terminal Tower from I77 north (one of my favorite views aside from that gap).

 

Based up my high tech and in-depth analysis using Paint, it looks like it will almost blend into view with 200 PS as opposed to filling the gap, unfortunately.

 

 

Blue=view of Terminal Tower; Red=view of 200 PS; Orange=view of nuCLEus tower

Looks like the only way that gap could be truly filled is with a tower on the Public Square parking lot. Hopefully some day soon!

^ okay, so from 77 & E 30th the view isn't great, but there are plenty of other perspectives.

jmicha, looking forward to your mockups - please post when you can :-) I took a rough try (very rough) at some different angles:

 

TPH2, I think you might be right - I forgot East 4th bends halfway through the block, and I believe the taller tower is slated for the easternmost portion of the site:

 

I'm just trying to get my brain around a new fourth tallest tower, so here's hoping  :-)

 

 

Thanks! That tower would look absolutely massive from behind home plate at Progressive Field!

The second, shorter tower will also have a skyline presence.  And the Hilton too of course.

So I took a building of similar height (the tallest building in Vancouver which is 659' tall) and scaled it down in sketchup to be exactly 550' tall. I geosynced it and added it into Google Earth and then recreated images used from your site Mayday, including the three images you used, to create a vision of what could be. I made five renderings shown below. If anyone has location requests I can easily add them to any images you link to.

 

My attempt from Lorain-Carnegie