http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cityofcincinnati/city-events/9-30-a-m-urban-design-review-board-meeting/

 

Another meeting tomorrow concerning the design of 8th and Sycamore garage/apartments. Hopefully get some renderings.

 

Also hopefully find out if this is realistic or an attempt to get a bunch of taxpayer dollars. With demand as high as it is and the city paying for the garage i would think these buildings would be close to profitability without assistance.

So was anyone there? Was anything revealed?

Usually either enquirer or CBC covers what happens at these meetings but have not seen anything today.

I know, I keep checking haha. I should be working more...oops.

They weren't really renderings, more like detailed massing. The proposal was the tall version with a tower on the north side of the block. Don't have details on the meeting, just saw a glimpse of the image.

EXCLUSIVE: Eighth and Sycamore apartments will need city grant to get built

Oct 17, 2014, 2:58pm EDT

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

If an apartment tower is to be built above a planned city-owned garage at Eighth and Sycamore streets, the city of Cincinnati will need to kick in a grant to get it done.

 

Rick Kimbler, a partner at NorthPointe Group, which is developing the project along with North American Properties and Al Neyer, said the group is trying to assemble financing for the project.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/17/exclusive-eighth-and-sycamore-apartments-will.html

CRANCELED!!!

 

Is it okay to just assume the above will happen? Is it too soon to just assume this won't happen because of endless political debauchery?

^ The city seemed to fast-track the 8th & Sycamore project while dragging its feet on 4th & Race project. So I would not be surprised if the city "finds" money for the 8th & Sycamore development while still claiming that the 4th & Race project is "too rich".

This whole situation is just so frustrating. There's plenty of demand for both and both should and need to happen. Along with a dozen more like them. We need to really get going on high profile conversions and high profile new construction.

Almost gone.

^ The city seemed to fast-track the 8th & Sycamore project while dragging its feet on 4th & Race project. So I would not be surprised if the city "finds" money for the 8th & Sycamore development while still claiming that the 4th & Race project is "too rich".

 

4th and Race = out of town developers

 

8th and Sycamore = local, politically well-connected developers who probably contributed to Cranley's mayoral campaign.

Hotel construction has started

http://www.senhauserarchitects.com/Sycamore.html

 

Senhauser has posted conceptual images of this tower.

 

I quite like it. Definitely interesting and a nice change of pace from what is expected of residential towers these days.

Uh, wow.  I actually like it.

 

http://www.senhauserarchitects.com/

Hows about they put a twin in that parking lot across the street?

Wait. What's to like here? We can't even see how the building lands. From the looks of it and how that corner is articulated it looks like it potentially lands pretty poorly. And the scale of the podium base...almost as dreadful as the look of the material. :)

It "lands" with street level retail followed by townhomes above. Those combine to create the base which then leads to the rental tower.

 

The podium is of a scale similar to surrounding buildings, anchoring the tower in a manner contextual to the neighborhood.

 

I'm also not sure where you're seeing "dreadful" materials. It's a concrete and glass structure clad in what appears to either be concrete, stone, or metal panels.

 

It's quite a nice looking building that breaks free of the "whole building glass curtain wall" trend in highrise residential buildings these days.

Atlas doesn't like an architectural proposal. Someone call CNN.

It "lands" with street level retail followed by townhomes above. Those combine to create the base which then leads to the rental tower.

 

The podium is of a scale similar to surrounding buildings, anchoring the tower in a manner contextual to the neighborhood.

 

I'm also not sure where you're seeing "dreadful" materials. It's a concrete and glass structure clad in what appears to either be concrete, stone, or metal panels.

 

It's quite a nice looking building that breaks free of the "whole building glass curtain wall" trend in highrise residential buildings these days.

 

^This.

Yeah I like it too. Hope it sticks and doesnt get dumbed down.

By "lands" I mean how it meets the street. I'd like to see a close up rendering to see how it meets the street and how the first floor is articulated, if at all. I am concerned with how the corner (at 8th and Sycamore) is articulated and that massive blank wall that appears to flank the south side of the corner. The tower portion looks ok, but that base....oooohh that base.

 

The cladding looks like something out of the 1980s. Just not my taste.

 

As for the scale of the podium - it seems to be the verticality of it could be broke down more. Right now the window framing make for giant windows that look larger than they really are and seem a bit....big....for an otherwise smaller podium.

This is a podium+tower I like - the SLS Hotel + Residences currently under construction in Philly. And I'd say it's still fairly safe/conservative.

Not that this is entirely appropriate for a residential only building, but I much prefer material use, how the podium doesn't come off as just another box plopped on a site and the generous height of the first floor retail. 

^Nice building for the location -- along a wide, boulevard-like street.

 

Senhauser's design seems more appropriate for its site though. 

 

I'm not sure that I like large-scale windows for downtown residential, considering our narrow streets.  Privacy issues and the challenges of window treatments where needed and how they may look from the outside are a concern.  At least @580 has dark glass that won't allow for a junky exterior look if people choose various window treatments here and there.  Landlords of buildings with such large windows may either need to provide uniform window treatments or impose some kind of lease restrictions on tenant-installed window treatments.  But perhaps special glazing (slightly reflective?) could solve the problem.

The cladding looks like something out of the 1980s. Just not my taste.

 

LOL!

 

Generally, Cincinnatians prefer the warmth and substantive appearance of brick as opposed to the type of cladding on the SLS International Hotel.  I seem to recall some criticism of Cesar Pelli's cladding choices for The Aronoff Center exterior, particularly the brick, when it was first built.

I agree with most of the positives stated above with the exception of material. That generic peachy material could be anything from metal to granite to painted concrete to EIFs and until I know which one I will reserve judgement. The color also looks like it would fit in with the Covington river center, which isn't a complement.

^I can guarantee you it's not painted concrete, definitely not EIFS, and it's unlikely it's 80s-esque granite.

 

Senhauser does fantastic work and wouldn't put his name on something that is poorly clad. I'm never concerned with material choices when he's involved.

 

If I had to guess as to what the materials are I'd first say stained concrete followed closely by metal.

Does the building include balconies? I can’t tell from the rendering.  I prefer the 4th street building.

That would be cool if it was that type of metal that changes color over time, I believe CORTEN Steel.  I don't know why I just think it looks neat.

 

The second tallest building in Des Moines, IA is made of CORTEN Steel and it gives it a unique look, IMO.

 

Anyways, how tall does this building look?  Is it over 300'?

At the last planning meeting they mentioned a conceptual height of 290 feet. So it's around 300 feet tall. That's really significant for this spot.

Looks like:

 

Waterfront Park Place in Louisville

As for the scale of the podium - it seems to be the verticality of it could be broke down more. Right now the window framing make for giant windows that look larger than they really are and seem a bit....big....for an otherwise smaller podium.

 

I think that's a parking garage, so yeah the windows are weird looking.

^The part facing Sycamore is townhomes. The garage is behind that. Those windows appear to be two story living spaces for the townhomes.

Ah, okay. My bad.

I have it on good authority that Senhauser's office is in the thick of developing the construction documents for this project. It's definitely more than a concept at this pont.

In 3CDCs presentation to council today as an update to the projects they are working on Steve Leeper said they will be presenting a plan to council for the apartment building / parking garage at 8th an Sycamore for about 120 apartments and 24 for sale town homes at street level plus retail space. 

 

He also made mention that they know there is sort of a lull in activity between fountain square / aronoff area going north until you cross Central. Hopefully this is only the first step in adding more between the two areas.

 

I dont believe that 3CDC was initially involved in this project but it sounds like they are now.

In 3CDCs presentation to council today as an update to the projects they are working on Steve Leeper said they will be presenting a plan to council for the apartment building / parking garage at 8th an Sycamore for about 120 apartments and 24 for sale town homes at street level plus retail space. 

 

He also made mention that they know there is sort of a lull in activity between fountain square / aronoff area going north until you cross Central. Hopefully this is only the first step in adding more between the two areas.

 

I dont believe that 3CDC was initially involved in this project but it sounds like they are now.

 

Any chance Leeper was talking about a *new* project at 8th & Sycamore? Perhaps he was referring to the surface parking lot on the southwest corner of 8th and Sycamore? Probably too good to be true... but man, it'd be great to have that surface lot filled in.

The owner of that lot is one of my clients. The answer to your dream scenario (and mine) is no, there's nothing happening there. And likely won't be since those parking lots are basically like an annuity for them.

He was talking about the apartment tower proposed alongside the Holiday Inn / Parking garage not the huge empty lots across the street.

 

Those are owned by a local auto sales company i believe. Probably make a lot of money on those lots with no incentive to do anything else.

It looks like 3CDC has majorly shifted their focus to developments within the CBD. They have also downsized/delayed some of their OTR developments. Hmmm...

 

 

It looks like 3CDC has majorly shifted their focus to developments within the CBD. They have also downsized/delayed some of their OTR developments. Hmmm...

 

While that's partly true I think it is more circumstances and perception. These are all upcoming projects:

 

3CDC in OTR = 15th and Race (yes, downsized), Mercer III (also downsized), Memorial Hall, Music Hall, Taft's Ale House, YMCA, Ziegler Park, Globe Building, and North of Liberty PDA (not developer but overseer).

 

3CDC in CBD = 4th and Race, 8th and Sycamore

It looks like 3CDC has majorly shifted their focus to developments within the CBD. They have also downsized/delayed some of their OTR developments. Hmmm...

 

While that's partly true I think it is more circumstances and perception. These are all upcoming projects:

 

3CDC in OTR = 15th and Race (yes, downsized), Mercer III (also downsized), Memorial Hall, Music Hall, Taft's Ale House, YMCA, Ziegler Park, Globe Building, and North of Liberty PDA (not developer but overseer).

 

3CDC in CBD = 4th and Race, 8th and Sycamore

 

I agree with this, i think it's circumstantial. I also think we may be seeing more projects in the CBD for financial reasons. Lending has eased up a bit, projects in the CBD are profitable now that rents and demand is growing. Last I read back in august(business courier reported), 3cdc was still selling condos at a loss in OTR (I can't expect its any different yet).

 

The city seems to be specially asking 3CDC to help lead a bunch of projects. I'm pretty sure that was the case with both dunnhumby centre and fourth & race. I wonder how they got involved in this 8th & Sycamore project.

Edit: Never mind, the article posted below V makes it obvious they were involved to handle parking.

3CDC will play a role in this major downtown apartment tower project

Mar 3, 2015, 3:17pm EST

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter and columnist- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. will play a role in another major downtown residential project, taking charge of the garage portion of the proposed apartments at Eighth and Sycamore streets.

 

3CDC CEO Steve Leeper told the Cincinnati City Council's economic growth committee on Tuesday that the nonprofit developer will come to council in the next month for a financial assistance package for the project. Its presentation listed the parking garage cost at $16.6 million.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/03/03/3cdc-will-play-a-role-in-this-major-downtown.html

517 spaces?!? Sheesh.

 

Cut the parking in half and divert the money to one of the downsized projects in OTR. Surely Mercer ||| can be argued to be a public project - it is for the better public good/public realm. :)

Honestly though large it's not really THAT large. It serves the hotel adjacent to it, the 150ish unit residential building above/around it, and then as a general parking garage for Downtown to replace the one that was demolished. And this site could use some devaluing of surrounding parking lots...structuring spaces into an attractive mixed use development is a good solution.

Also if 3CDC controls a garage at this site maybe they could feel comfortable buiding denser with less parking in OTR- people could park here and ride the streetcar into OTR for $1. Or OTR residents could keep their cars here and use the streetcar to get to and from. 

It also has the effect of elevating the tower portion of this project giving units better views. Better views = more money. More money = higher profitability and therefore more likelihood of financial success. An indirect benefit, but a benefit nonetheless.

I really wish the retail wrapped around the parking along 8th street. It's sad to have that entire side of the block devoid of activity at the street level. 

The portion on the southern edge is still going to be a Holiday Inn, right? Or is the entire yellowish structure pictured above supposed to all be the garage? I'm just trying to see how these buildings all will fit on the site.  Also, isn't there an existing 5-6 story residential building on this block? That building won't be demolished to make way for this project, will it?

We need to get out of the business of subsidizing parking garages like this. Not only are structured garages massive density killers, they requires the floor plates which also kills fine grain urbanism. Plus, all of this parking for hotels above all is so antiquated it's painful. I read a recent study of the effects of Uber/Lyft on parking supply and demand in the Sydney CBD. The study suggested that the emergence of the popular ride sharing rendered obsolete 6-7,000 spaces in the CBD. And this is in a city that already discourages developers to put parking in. Cincinnati now has rail transit, bike share, and Uber/Lyft. I think it's time we elevate the expectation of a more urban outcome. At the very least it can start with not accepting any development with any more than a 1:1 unit to car park space ratio and ensuring retail/commercial activity on the first 2 floors, not just the ground floor.