12 minutes ago, skiwest said:

It seems rather odd to have "affordable housing" in the center of a downtown.  

Not at all.  Especially when there is public funds involved.  

Yeah, it's nice if a CVS or Heinen's employee can live close to their job (that ends late at night) or paralegals, paraprofessionals, or what-have-you who are not highly paid techies, managers, or executives with deep pockets. 

As we learned in the pandemic, these are valuable and important workers.  They are the people needed to keep the service economy humming downtown.

 

Living near their downtown jobs will save them money that would otherwise be used on transit or car ownership, so they can apply both the time & savings towards education, groceries, childcare... It makes working downtown a realistic choice for those who strive towards greater success in life while earning nominal pay.

Edited July 10, 20213 yr by ExPatClevGuy

And for those who don't work downtown and are not highly paid, downtown is a perfect place for them to live because they are at the heart of the transit system. Problem is, they can't afford to live in the most transit-friendly place in the metro area.

41 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Not at all.  Especially when there is public funds involved.  

I think affordable housing in the CBD makes perfect sense. It will help create a more diverse, equitable neighborhood, helping make accessible housing for all that work downtown. I've heard similar arguments about not having affordable housing in UC and am glad they have found ways to keep what was there intact.

8 hours ago, skiwest said:

It seems rather odd to have "affordable housing" in the center of a downtown.  

Why is it “rather odd?” You’re acting like they’re building project housing. Or Section 8. I think it’s smart because that’s a big ass building and you want to fill it with people and if you want downtown’s population to continue to grow, u gotta get some middle class and working class folks in there too. When some people hear “affordable housing” they think “ghetto”. And that’s grossly unfair. This isn’t section 8. This isn’t housing projects. 

7 hours ago, scg80 said:

I think affordable housing in the CBD makes perfect sense. It will help create a more diverse, equitable neighborhood, helping make accessible housing for all that work downtown. I've heard similar arguments about not having affordable housing in UC and am glad they have found ways to keep what was there intact.

Tbh, it’s not the “equitable” thing for me per se (which I find to be a buzzword that has very little actual meaning to it). What I care about is continued growth and opportunity. And if downtown is at 20,000 residents currently (which we think it is or close to) and we want it to get to 40,000 then you BETTER open up opportunities to the middle and working classes. As others here have already written, many of these folks work downtown already. So they’re good enough to work downtown but not live downtown? And this doesn’t take anything away from high dollar developments designed to cater to wealthy people. I want as many wealthy people living in the city limits as possible, because those folks pay taxes and they provide the city with more resources to help everybody else. But I also believe that downtown is big enough that we can do both. Yes this is affordable housing in the middle of the CBD. But it activates another building that’s currently dead. It brings more residents to downtown. Which means there’s more buy in to downtown, more people caring about what happens in downtown. It will also change some people’s environments which can eventually change their trajectories, which means today’s affordable housing residents could potentially become tomorrow’s market rate resident. I don’t see anything wrong with this project from a pure business sense. If it was section 8 or a housing project I’d have a little heartburn. But that’s not what this is. And it contributes to continued growth downtown. Which we all say we want. Go for it

BTW, I'm a little disappointed that any project is going to go after the max TMUD credit amount. There's "only" going to be $80 million in credits for Ohio's six largest cities per year. Assuming Centennial wins the full amount, having one project soak up half of the available credits means less available for other projects. Imagine an NFL QB getting such a large contract that the team can't afford to surround him with as many quality players so he ends up not performing as well. I want to see more projects win credits. The minimum credit award would be $5 million. I expect that, if Centennial wins less than $40 million, the average award will be about $10 million to $15 million. That means 6-8 projects in large metros could win TMUD credits each year. But that many winners wouldn't be possible if Centennial wins $40 million.

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

BTW, I'm a little disappointed that any project is going to go after the max TMUD credit amount. There's "only" going to be $80 million in credits for Ohio's six largest cities per year. Assuming Centennial wins the full amount, having one project soak up half of the available credits means less available for other projects. Imagine an NFL QB getting such a large contract that the team can't afford to surround him with as many quality players so he ends up not performing as well. I want to see more projects win credits. The minimum credit award would be $5 million. I expect that, if Centennial wins less than $40 million, the average award will be about $10 million to $15 million. That means 6-8 projects in large metros could win TMUD credits each year. But that many winners wouldn't be possible if Centennial wins $40 million.

Totally agree. We should want to make that money spread out to as many projects as possible 

10 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Why is it “rather odd?” You’re acting like they’re building project housing. Or Section 8. I think it’s smart because that’s a big ass building and you want to fill it with people and if you want downtown’s population to continue to grow, u gotta get some middle class and working class folks in there too. When some people hear “affordable housing” they think “ghetto”. And that’s grossly unfair. This isn’t section 8. This isn’t housing projects. 

I think it’s a good idea to have low cost housing available in the CBD. But LIHTC is very much similar to Section 8. It just shifts the funds from individual vouchers to housing developers. Lots of housing we would consider “projects” were built or renovated using LIHTC. But I agree it is a bummer that we have a stigma around affordable housing in general.

Edited July 11, 20213 yr by bumsquare

3 hours ago, bumsquare said:

I think it’s a good idea to have low cost housing available in the CBD. But LIHTC is very much similar to Section 8. It just shifts the funds from individual vouchers to housing developers. Lots of housing we would consider “projects” were built or renovated using LIHTC. But I agree it is a bummer that we have a stigma around affordable housing in general.

From what I know about LIHTC, it is considered to be a tier above section 8, particularly in cost. People living here will be paying more than someone would be in section 8. And the quality of the product typically tends to be better. So it’s not the same. But I don’t want to quibble on that when we both agree on the larger point

Why dont we think of it as Fair Market Housing.  Some can pay more and others less.  Depends on income etc.  

On 7/10/2021 at 11:32 PM, inlovewithCLE said:

Why is it “rather odd?” You’re acting like they’re building project housing. Or Section 8. I think it’s smart because that’s a big ass building and you want to fill it with people and if you want downtown’s population to continue to grow, u gotta get some middle class and working class folks in there too. When some people hear “affordable housing” they think “ghetto”. And that’s grossly unfair. This isn’t section 8. This isn’t housing projects. 

Affordable housing may include Section 8 vouchers.

23 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

Affordable housing may include Section 8 vouchers.

LIHTC typically does not

33 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

Affordable housing may include Section 8 vouchers.

Market rate housing may also include Section 8 vouchers.  

Edited July 12, 20213 yr by freefourur

Will be interesting to see if a lot of families and children wind up here.  If so, it could be a major boost for enrollment at CMSD's Campus International school downtown.

On 7/12/2021 at 9:25 AM, inlovewithCLE said:

LIHTC typically does not

Having been involved with many I can state that is not true.
If you are stating a new construction with state LIHTC, sure then that could be the case, but I've been involved with new construction that accept HUD vouchers as well.

^My company develops LIHTC housing. It most certainly does include section 8; however, the number of units is largely determined on the type of application the developer submits to OHFA. My guess is that this project will not have as many section 8 units as if it were located further out of the CBD, but there will still be some. This will benefit a great deal of working class families. You can bet that there will be a few troublesome tenants, but that can be said for Market Rate properties too. Also, I am not sure of how well Millenia manages their properties, but that will be a CRITICAL part of the type of demographic this project attracts. Management's role in leasing LIHTC units is exponentially more critical than market rate.

35 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

^My company develops LIHTC housing. It most certainly does include section 8; however, the number of units is largely determined on the type of application the developer submits to OHFA. My guess is that this project will not have as many section 8 units as if it were located further out of the CBD, but there will still be some. This will benefit a great deal of working class families. You can bet that there will be a few troublesome tenants, but that can be said for Market Rate properties too. Also, I am not sure of how well Millenia manages their properties, but that will be a CRITICAL part of the type of demographic this project attracts. Management's role in leasing LIHTC units is exponentially more critical than market rate.

I've been to some very nice Section 8 units and I've been to the worst. You're right. One hundred percent depends on whose running it. 

This might be the biggest historic renovation ever in the state of Ohio!

^You may be right if this comes in around $270 million.  Cleveland Trust (rotunda, tower, and Swetland) was around $230, as was Union Terminal in Cincinnati. Goodyear Headquarters in Akron is around $190-200 if fully completed.

1 hour ago, ink said:

^You may be right if this comes in around $270 million.  Cleveland Trust (rotunda, tower, and Swetland) was around $230, as was Union Terminal in Cincinnati. Goodyear Headquarters in Akron is around $190-200 if fully completed.

 

@inkThe project manager told last weekend that he thinks the project will come in at just over a half-billion dollars. Posted the article here....

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/07/millennia-submits-centennial-plans.html

And here we go!!

 

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3818&CASE=DF 2021-020

 

 

Edited July 29, 20213 yr by Clefan98

So what buildings will be left to renovate after this? The Caxton and Baker buildings are about all the sizable ones left. 

Does this mean they’re moving forward without worrying about a TMUD credit or is the project still probably contingent on getting one?

Let's keep this to 925 Euclid.

1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Does this mean they’re moving forward without worrying about a TMUD credit or is the project still probably contingent on getting one?

 

Still contingent on a TMUD. If they're asking for max, and according to Millennia's project manager they are, they have a big financing hole to fill. As I wrote in my last article, they're hoping to close on their financing in the fourth quarter of this year -- and that assumes getting a significant TMUD award.

20 hours ago, marty15 said:

So what buildings will be left to renovate after this? The Caxton and Baker buildings are about all the sizable ones left. 

Best for a discussion in the ‘Cleveland projects- which will be next?’ thread.

On 7/29/2021 at 9:32 AM, Clefan98 said:

And here we go!!

 

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3818&CASE=DF 2021-020

 

 

I'm assuming that they are starting the permits process now to be able to start construction this year BEFORE the $ 25 MILLION state historical tax credits expire.

Edited August 3, 20213 yr by Larry1962
Typos

"Millennia Cos. of Cleveland won final approval Friday, Aug. 6, from the Cleveland City Planning Commission for its conversion of the massive one-time Huntington Building, at 925 Euclid Ave., into apartments with renovated and repurposed bank rotundas and public spaces. Technically, the approval OKs exterior work on the 21-story building with more than a million square feet of space within its ornate exterior. As city planners unanimously approved the designs by Sandvick Architects of Cleveland, they required the developer to bring designs back later for signage and other minor details...."

 

Centennial plan for Huntington Building wins Cleveland Planning Commission approval

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/centennial-plan-huntington-building-wins-cleveland-planning-commission-approval

 

Incredible building on the inside while the exterior is prime for tasteful accent lighting. Can't wait to see it.

The Crains article says they are planning to do the whole project in one phase rather than two. I suppose that must be a good sign!

4 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

The Crains article says they are planning to do the whole project in one phase rather than two. I suppose that must be a good sign!

 

Yeah, yeah. I had that nearly a month ago...... 😎

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/07/millennia-submits-centennial-plans.html

So is there anything NOT to love about this project?  Over 1,000 people from many walks of life living under one roof in one of downtown's biggest and most historical buildings?  This is easily one of the best and probably the biggest steps towards establishing a sustainable downtown population we've seen in a long time (and there has been much progress on that front in the last 10-15 years).  And it also takes a ton of vacant office space off the downtown and CBD's billet.  Just great news all around.

On 8/8/2021 at 12:49 PM, Down_with_Ctown said:

So is there anything NOT to love about this project?  Over 1,000 people from many walks of life living under one roof in one of downtown's biggest and most historical buildings?  This is easily one of the best and probably the biggest steps towards establishing a sustainable downtown population we've seen in a long time (and there has been much progress on that front in the last 10-15 years).  And it also takes a ton of vacant office space off the downtown and CBD's billet.  Just great news all around.

 Agree and I can't wait for this last piece of the Main and Main to have new life.  Is there anything NOT to love about this intersection.  If you would have told me 15 years ago this intersection would look like the photo below and Huntington on its way, I'd thought you were crazy.

 

 

Edited August 11, 20213 yr by Firenze98

Tom Yablonsky, Executive Director of the Historic Gateway Neighborhood Corp., testified today at a very lengthy City Council Planning Committee meeting regarding Progressive Field.  Initially, it blows my mind how knowledgeable, articulate and passionate he is. We are lucky to have him on "our side".  Anyway, as a side note during his presentation he stated he had great confidence that Centennial was going to win a TMUD grant.  

Tom is a great guy. I met him many years ago when he was leading walking tours of the Warehouse District, Flats and other locations in the city.

Tom is probably right. Centennial checks all of the TMUD boxes... It has all of its financing except for the gap it needs filled by the tax credit. It has city approvals so it's ready to go. They could even start construction and not lose the TMUD but if they don't get it, they would have to reapply or approach the project in phases (something they don't want to do). The project has good transit access neing located on the frequent 24-hour HealthLine. And speaking of transformational, the half-billion-dollar, 1.4-million-square-foot Centennial is the largest project the state is being asked to consider in this round.

 

As I wrote in July, "It's a 21-story, 257-foot-tall town where more than 1,000 people would call home and many hundreds more would work, dine and shop each day."

https://neo-trans.blog/2021/07/10/millennia-submits-centennial-plans-seeks-building-permits/

 

They are asking for the max which, given the economic impacts, makes it harder for the state not to give Centennial something. I would think that if they don't get everything they ask for this time, they can ask for more next time.

 

18 minutes ago, KJP said:

Tom is probably right. Centennial checks all of the TMUD boxes... It has all of its financing except for the gap it needs filled by the tax credit. It has city approvals so it's ready to go. They could even start construction and not lose the TMUD but if they don't get it, they would have to reapply or approach the project in phases (something they don't want to do). The project has good transit access neing located on the frequent 24-hour HealthLine. And speaking of transformational, the half-billion-dollar, 1.4-million-square-foot Centennial is the largest project the state is being asked to consider in this round.

 

As I wrote in July, "It's a 21-story, 257-foot-tall town where more than 1,000 people would call home and many hundreds more would work, dine and shop each day."

https://neo-trans.blog/2021/07/10/millennia-submits-centennial-plans-seeks-building-permits/

 

They are asking for the max which, given the economic impacts, makes it harder for the state not to give Centennial something. I would think that if they don't get everything they ask for this time, they can ask for more next time.

 

I cannot recall, is there a time limit for starting construction before you lose the tax credit?

50 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I cannot recall, is there a time limit for starting construction before you lose the tax credit?

 

I'm sure there is but I don't remember seeing it in the rules.

We have a winner:

 

Quote

The Centennial, in downtown Cleveland, wins $40 million in tax credits for 'transformational' projects

The $465 million revival of one of downtown Cleveland's largest — and most challenging — properties finally is poised to move forward, after winning a whopping $40 million in state tax credits aimed at so-called transformational projects.

 

The Millennia Cos. landed that prize for the Centennial, its long-anticipated makeover of the vacant Union Trust Building at East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue. The 1.36 million-square-foot complex has languished for almost a decade, a block-long dead zone in the heart of a reviving central business district

 

Now, with the promise of the mammoth tax-credit award, Millennia can execute on its vision of filling the space with modestly priced apartments and a 61-room boutique hotel.

A high-end restaurant and the Cleveland Exposition, a museum-like display, will occupy the building's cavernous lobby. Millennia's plans also call for a rooftop event space and retail lining East Ninth, Euclid and Chester Avenue.

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/centennial-downtown-cleveland-wins-40-million-tax-credits-transformational-projects

Edited March 2, 20223 yr by Mendo

Such amazing news!! This will be a game-changer for downtown, and totally transform this crucial corner. Can't wait for this to get underway!

I can't believe they got the full amount. This really will be transformative in a way Bridgeworks and the W were not, and while I wish those projects could have gotten something, hopefully this will not kill them. The Centennial really will change downtown in a big way and hopefully spur more retail and investment extending all around Euclid and 9th.

I know I sound like a broken record, but again, an incredible job of reporting by Michelle.  She just seems to have  a knack for answering all ones questions in detail and then some.

Edited March 2, 20223 yr by Htsguy

This was the big one! Congrats Cleveland on what will be a really transformational project!  Downtown continues its Renaissance and will feel increasingly dynamic in the next couple years. 

 

Adding 800 units is going to be HUGE for that area! It will really add a lot to the pedestrian traffic around an already busy area.

And "Winning projects must start construction within 12 months." 

3 hours ago, Mendo said:

We have a winner:

 

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/centennial-downtown-cleveland-wins-40-million-tax-credits-transformational-projects

This is great stuff. There is a three paragraph max for quoting copyrighted content - would you please edit the quote down so we don’t get our generous hosts in trouble? Thanks for posting this great news!

From the Crain's article:

 

Quote

The Centennial will house more than 860 apartments, which Millennia is describing as "workforce housing." Aimed at tenants including hospitality workers and public employees, the units will be limited to renters earning between 50% and 80% of area median income.

 

Cleveland median income in 2019 was $20,407 for individuals and $30,907 for households. In 2019 Cuyahoga county was $29,458 and $50,366 respectively. If rents are truly in that 50-80% of median income bracket does that mean they'll be somewhere around $500-$1200?

27 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

This is great stuff. There is a three paragraph max for quoting copyrighted content - would you please edit the quote down so we don’t get our generous hosts in trouble? Thanks for posting this great news!

 

 

Paragraphs in news articles are usually one or two sentences so that rule of thumb is kind of weird. Either way, I removed a bit.